Why am I doing all these quests?

schrollbach · February 2012

Hey there,

After giving up on yet another MMO, I sat down to try to figure out why I am not liking the newest batch of MMOs. I think the conclusion that I ended up coming to is that I just don't see the point in doing all the quest grind anymore.

Back in my Guild Wars days, I had my own personal objective which was to get sick nasty looking armor and cool skills that let me farm bosses and do cool farms where you take on 20+ mobs. I enjoyed Guild Wars immensly, but after having played it for so long I ended up becoming bored of it.

I've tried and tired of WoW, EQ2, LotRO, AoC, and many more, and every time I make it to about the 20s and ask myself, "Why bother?" WoW was the only other MMO where I've managed to make it to the level cap because there was always this cool thing I knew I was going to get in a couple of levels.

"SWEET! I get a cool mount, and it feels like I achieved something to get it!"

"NICE! I get a sweet move that will utterly destroy mobs and define my class!"

"WOW! I'm elligible to do this awesome dungeon now!"

Is it possible I'm playing the wrong MMOs? Could I be playing the MMOs incorrectly? Am I missing cool content that I don't know about?

I just feel like the sense of accomplishment (as much of a joke as it may be in a video game) isn't there anymore.

Like I stated previously about Guild Wars. I had to do these quests and I could do fun farms on bosses and mobs and I could get a cool looking armor set for my character and when that was done I could go do my own things. It felt like I worked hard to get my character where it was and my character was a Grade-A Certified Badass of Epic Proportions raised to the Nth power of Sick Nastiness. But recently, it just feels like I get gear, so I can get more gear, to get gear that will allow me to get better gear.

Am I just playing the wrong games? Am I missing the fun content because the game ephisizes on getting me to level cap? Or am I just playing MMOs incorrectly?

eye_m · February 2012

I agree 100%.

Actually glad I'm not alone in this perception.

schrollbach · February 2012

It's nice to see that I'm not the only person that feels this way. I really do wish there is another game out there where I can gain a sense of accomplishment or at least something that feels like I am accomplishing something towards creating a wrecking machine of a character -- something I could be proud of. Alas, nothing has seemed to create this feeling for a while, unless I am missing something blatantly obvious in most MMOs.

eye_m · February 2012

The thing is, there are so many people that do not follow the same logic. With GW being my first online rpg, I didn't have the mentality of gear scores and grinding mobs. Unfortunatly the majority of my friends didn't start with GW, so they didn't like the idea that one type of armor had the same stats as other armors, or that max level was 20 and the rest of the game was about gaining skills for different builds. I'm really hoping that GW2 will fix all the downsides that were in GW without taking away from what I truly enjoyed about it.

lowendahl · February 2012

You're doing it wrong...

You should play a game because it's fun, not because of the next carrot on the stick. If you just play for the carrots, you're really just feeding an addiction for rewards.

FrostWyrm · February 2012

Originally posted by lowendahl
You're doing it wrong...

You should play a game because it's fun, not because of the next carrot on the stick. If you just play for the carrots, you're really just feeding an addiction for rewards.

To some people, that IS what's fun.

Personally I've always loved having something to look forward to next in an MMO. Thats why I prefer the leveling process to "endgame". I dont care about actually being the best, I just love proccess of improving.

I dont mind quests in general, but I agree the WoW approach to questing is seriously flawed. The word "quest" (much like the word "epic") has lost so much significance. "Quests" in MMOs today are typically little more than menial tasks that should very well be beneath your character's notice.

Farmer: I'm hungry. Fetch me 10 boar chops.

Player: I've killed dragons! Fetch your own damn boar chops!

Farmer: I'll give you some pants.

Player: Ooh! Pants! Brb!

Its a bit silly.

Volkon · February 2012

That's a big reason why GW2 won't have quests like that anymore. Instead you'll have a world full of dunamic events that are going on whether or not you're there, and as you join events and change the outcome that outcome will persist. The next person to come along will see the world as you've helped change it. The days of NPCs standing there with exclamation points over their heads wanting you (and the next guy, and the next guy...) to go kill ten orcs that are standing around in a field staring at bumblebees are pretty much ending. You haven't been doing MMOs wrong... they've been doing you wrong.

Sovrath · February 2012

Originally posted by FrostWyrm

Originally posted by lowendahl

You're doing it wrong...

You should play a game because it's fun, not because of the next carrot on the stick. If you just play for the carrots, you're really just feeding an addiction for rewards.

To some people, that IS what's fun.

I would say you were both correct.

And because of that it makes sense that not every game is for every person.

Game has quests and you don't find quests fun? Don't play it. Game doesn't have quests but is more about pvp or getting the next best armor and you don't find that fun? Don't play it.

For some reason there is this misconception that every game that comes out, regardless of IP, has to cater to every person. And this is clearly not the case.

FrostWyrm · February 2012

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by FrostWyrm

Originally posted by lowendahl

You're doing it wrong...

You should play a game because it's fun, not because of the next carrot on the stick. If you just play for the carrots, you're really just feeding an addiction for rewards.

To some people, that IS what's fun.

For some reason there is this misconception that every game that comes out, regardless of IP, has to cater to every person. And this is clearly not the case.

Its because every game that comes out TRIES to cater to every person. I would guess this is why many of them fail. I've always said its best for a game to pick a target audience and stick with it. Reminds me of the story of the greedy dog who saw his reflection in a lake.

Sovrath · February 2012

Originally posted by FrostWyrm

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by FrostWyrm

Originally posted by lowendahl

You're doing it wrong...

You should play a game because it's fun, not because of the next carrot on the stick. If you just play for the carrots, you're really just feeding an addiction for rewards.

To some people, that IS what's fun.

For some reason there is this misconception that every game that comes out, regardless of IP, has to cater to every person. And this is clearly not the case.

Its because every game that comes out TRIES to cater to every person. I would guess this is why many of them fail. I've always said its best for a game to pick a target audience and stick with it. Reminds me of the story of the greedy dog who saw his reflection in a lake.

I would agree with you. They should pick an audience and go with it. Either that or they should figure out a way to add all the components but make sure each component is complete so that each experience is satisfying.

But they usually fail to do this. Everything always seems sort of half ass.

Valkaern · February 2012

Following a clear safe trail to a predictable reward has never been as satisfying as the times I was set loose in a dangerous unpredictable world and found success. Why would it be satisfying? They tell me exactly where to go, what to do, and guarantee there's no risk, which for me equates to no excitement.

The drudgery of looking at a linear and predetermined path, knowing that any rewards I get as a result will be careful upgrades determined by a spreadsheet, is the exact opposite of adventure to me.

Some people are apparently satisfied with these linear trails, as long as the developers throw in some low brow popculture reference and add some items to click before or after each kill in a kill 10 task in an attempt to disguise how uninspired the experience truly is.

These aren't quests. Quests are 'A long or arduous search for something'. These are busy work, these are menial tasks of no significance. I would like to see actual quests reappear in MMOs, long, important and with rewards you truly appreciate.

Clicking 10 plants in a field is a grind worse than just about any I can imagine, not an unpredictable adventure.

TheLizardbones · February 2012

Originally posted by FrostWyrm

Originally posted by lowendahl
You're doing it wrong...

You should play a game because it's fun, not because of the next carrot on the stick. If you just play for the carrots, you're really just feeding an addiction for rewards.

To some people, that IS what's fun.
Personally I've always loved having something to look forward to next in an MMO. Thats why I prefer the leveling process to "endgame". I dont care about actually being the best, I just love proccess of improving.
I dont mind quests in general, but I agree the WoW approach to questing is seriously flawed. The word "quest" (much like the word "epic") has lost so much significance. "Quests" in MMOs today are typically little more than menial tasks that should very well be beneath your character's notice.
Farmer: I'm hungry. Fetch me 10 boar chops.
Player: I've killed dragons! Fetch your own damn boar chops!
Farmer: I'll give you some pants.
Player: Ooh! Pants! Brb!
Its a bit silly.

If the carrot on a stick if the fun part, then why don't players such as the OP enjoy WoW's end game raiding, or Rift's end game raiding? It is the penultimate carrot on a stick game. What about Diablo 3? It's not out yet, but enough beta invites have gone out that everyone I know who was interested in seeing D3's beta has gotten an invite.

Is it the difference between solo and group accomplishments? In GW sounds like you could get to your goals without a group, not so in WoW or Rift. Is this the hold up?

** edit **
Is it the game between level 1 and the raid game?

Cuathon · February 2012

Originally posted by Volkon
That's a big reason why GW2 won't have quests like that anymore. Instead you'll have a world full of dunamic events that are going on whether or not you're there, and as you join events and change the outcome that outcome will persist. The next person to come along will see the world as you've helped change it. The days of NPCs standing there with exclamation points over their heads wanting you (and the next guy, and the next guy...) to go kill ten orcs that are standing around in a field staring at bumblebees are pretty much ending. You haven't been doing MMOs wrong... they've been doing you wrong.

I keep saying this and no one listens.

Xstyles · February 2012

Originally posted by schrollbach

Am I just playing the wrong games? Am I missing the fun content because the game ephisizes on getting me to level cap? Or am I just playing MMOs incorrectly?

Play the same game as your friends. There's nothing more boring than playing an MMO all by yourself

kostoslav · February 2012

I do them for the story

Cuppett5 · February 2012

I agree 100%. I can't stick to an MMO anymore because I am just bored. I crave open world PVP and better quest missions. The only game I enjoyed doing quests for was Asheron's Call. I am hoping TERA will bring something new to the table or GW2 or I'll be waiting for something else...

FrostWyrm · February 2012

Originally posted by lizardbones

Originally posted by FrostWyrm

Originally posted by lowendahl

You're doing it wrong...

You should play a game because it's fun, not because of the next carrot on the stick. If you just play for the carrots, you're really just feeding an addiction for rewards.

To some people, that IS what's fun.

Personally I've always loved having something to look forward to next in an MMO. Thats why I prefer the leveling process to "endgame". I dont care about actually being the best, I just love proccess of improving.

I dont mind quests in general, but I agree the WoW approach to questing is seriously flawed. The word "quest" (much like the word "epic") has lost so much significance. "Quests" in MMOs today are typically little more than menial tasks that should very well be beneath your character's notice.

Farmer: I'm hungry. Fetch me 10 boar chops.

Player: I've killed dragons! Fetch your own damn boar chops!

Farmer: I'll give you some pants.

Player: Ooh! Pants! Brb!

Its a bit silly.

If the carrot on a stick if the fun part, then why don't players such as the OP enjoy WoW's end game raiding, or Rift's end game raiding? It is the penultimate carrot on a stick game. What about Diablo 3? It's not out yet, but enough beta invites have gone out that everyone I know who was interested in seeing D3's beta has gotten an invite.

Is it the difference between solo and group accomplishments? In GW sounds like you could get to your goals without a group, not so in WoW or Rift. Is this the hold up?

** edit **

Is it the game between level 1 and the raid game?

I cant speak for everyone, but personally, the "carrot" becomes less significant at endgame. When you spend day after day playing the same content over and over for the tiniest upgrade, the carrot no longer becomes worth the chase. In leveling you're at least exploring new environments and facing new creatures while chasing that carrot. At least in some games. Since not all MMOs are created equal, it all varies with the game itself also.

TheLizardbones · February 2012

Originally posted by FrostWyrm

I cant speak for everyone, but personally, the "carrot" becomes less significant at endgame. When you spend day after day playing the same content over and over for the tiniest upgrade, the carrot no longer becomes worth the chase. In leveling you're at least exploring new environments and facing new creatures while chasing that carrot. At least in some games. Since not all MMOs are created equal, it all varies with the game itself also.

I am not terribly impressed with raiding as an end game myself. I did the whole instanced pvp end game for a long time in WoW, but a couple years is enough.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the OP. It's entirely possible there just aren't any mmorpg out right now that appeal to them. The solution, for good or ill, is to play something else.

Try Minecraft or Terraria. Buy the 'Orange Box' on Steam and play Half Life 2 and then play Portal. Then buy Portal 2 because Portal is probably one of the best games ever made. Try Fallout or Skyrim.

** edit **
If you have a battle.net account, sign in and check the box to get into the Diablo 3 beta. See if that gives you what you're looking for.

Kyleran · February 2012

Well, most MMO's have a grind, and whether they disguise it behind endless quests or just let you kill npc's endlessly like I'm doing in Lineage 2 right now, people are going to complain about it.

Now OP brought up one of the few exceptions, he enjoyed GW1's grindless design, but it must not have worked out that well for ANET because they are going to add more grind to GW2 to please a greater base of players.

Consider giving another grindless game a try, I recommend EVE. You can truely build your character up to epic proportions, heck, one day you might lead an entire Star empire that spans dozens, or even hundreds of systems and brings fear and terror to your enemies.

TheLizardbones · February 2012

Originally posted by Kyleran
Well, most MMO's have a grind, and whether they disguise it behind endless quests or just let you kill npc's endlessly like I'm doing in Lineage 2 right now, people are going to complain about it.
Now OP brought up one of the few exceptions, he enjoyed GW1's grindless design, but it must not have worked out that well for ANET because they are going to add more grind to GW2 to please a greater base of players.
Consider giving another grindless game a try, I recommend EVE. You can truely build your character up to epic proportions, heck, one day you might lead an entire Star empire that spans dozens, or even hundreds of systems and brings fear and terror to your enemies.

o.0

There is no grind in Eve?

I disbelieve you.

maplestone · February 2012

Originally posted by schrollbach

Am I just playing the wrong games? Am I missing the fun content because the game ephisizes on getting me to level cap? Or am I just playing MMOs incorrectly?

You are losing the suspension of disbelief. It happens. It's not good or bad, just an unfortunate side effect of growing up that you sometimes notice the strings pulling your favourite toy (that can set in at any age).

There's nothing wrong with saying "hey, this just doesn't motivate me any more, I need to find something new to do" or even taking a break from the whole genre. Sometimes absense makes the heart grow fonder.

Then again, I must admit many of us refuse to let go and take on the quest of laying out the vision of a new world more magical than our disbelief.

ThaneUlfgar · February 2012

Quests just give you another option. There are other ways to level, such as grinding mobs, pvp in some games or running dungeons. If you don't like quests, don't do them.

SEANMCAD · February 2012

Originally posted by ThaneUlfgar
Quests just give you another option. There are other ways to level, such as grinding mobs, pvp in some games or running dungeons. If you don't like quests, don't do them.

that is not realistic in most MMOs. It is true in Darkfall it is NOT true in EQ2.

most MMOs it is possible yes but the amount of time is considerably crazy huge mega more than if you do quests.

Darkfall quest system was a perfect balance they just needed a ton more of them. The quests didnt give you anything radical that you couldnt get in other ways without pretty much the same effort. Quests in Darkfall really just gave you a ding to go for while working on your pve stuff

Kyleran · February 2012

Originally posted by lizardbones

Originally posted by Kyleran

Well, most MMO's have a grind, and whether they disguise it behind endless quests or just let you kill npc's endlessly like I'm doing in Lineage 2 right now, people are going to complain about it.

Now OP brought up one of the few exceptions, he enjoyed GW1's grindless design, but it must not have worked out that well for ANET because they are going to add more grind to GW2 to please a greater base of players.

Consider giving another grindless game a try, I recommend EVE. You can truely build your character up to epic proportions, heck, one day you might lead an entire Star empire that spans dozens, or even hundreds of systems and brings fear and terror to your enemies.

o.0

There is no grind in Eve?

I disbelieve you.

Actually, not really, at least in the traditional sense.

Your skills train up in real time, and no amount of personal effort you put in will increase or decrease them. So it is a waiting game more or less, and you play EVE with the skills you currently have at present. As your skills increase over time more and more gameplay options will open up for you, but you won't be grinding to get there.

Now, one could argue that you need to grind to earn ISK (gold), but while you can earn ISK from grinding (mission running), there are other ways to earn income in EVE including mining (gathering more than grinding), market trading (the richest players generally do this), industry (everything good in EVE is made/sold by crafters), piracy (taking other people's stuff) or even scamming others (totally legal in EVE in most circumstances)

There are even more ways to earn ISK than I mentioned above, but it never really feels like grinding in the traditional sense. Also, if you are rich in real life, you can purchase game time cards (PLEX) and trade them to players in EVE for ISK and never grind for cash if you so chose. I know several people who only PVP in EVE and never do any of the PVE stuff by paying their way through.

No, I'd say EVE did the best job of any MMORPG of never makiing me feel like I was grinding too much, with the possible exception of mission running but I did that by choice, because I don't mind doing some grinding from time to time.

Ecoces · February 2012

Originally posted by FrostWyrm

Farmer: I'm hungry. Fetch me 10 boar chops.

Player: I've killed dragons! Fetch your own damn boar chops!

Farmer: I'll give you some pants.

Player: Ooh! Pants! Brb!

Its a bit silly.

lol yeah this is my biggest beef with MMO quests ... they are not quests they are chores. A quest to me is take this evil ring fight through thousands of orcs, goblins and other vicious creatures to the volcano it was forged and destroy it. not "hey i want wombat spleen pie tonight go kill 10 wombats for me".

I especially hate them when the whole story of the game is geared toward my character being some great hero ... (im look at you rift).

me: I am ascended brought back from death to save Telara from the invasions of the seven planes, how can i help you citizen?

NPC: can you go over to my farm and destroy some rotten crops and plant new ones.

I mean really?

TheLizardbones · February 2012

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by lizardbones

Originally posted by Kyleran
Well, most MMO's have a grind, and whether they disguise it behind endless quests or just let you kill npc's endlessly like I'm doing in Lineage 2 right now, people are going to complain about it.
Now OP brought up one of the few exceptions, he enjoyed GW1's grindless design, but it must not have worked out that well for ANET because they are going to add more grind to GW2 to please a greater base of players.
Consider giving another grindless game a try, I recommend EVE. You can truely build your character up to epic proportions, heck, one day you might lead an entire Star empire that spans dozens, or even hundreds of systems and brings fear and terror to your enemies.

o.0

There is no grind in Eve?

I disbelieve you.

Actually, not really, at least in the traditional sense.
Your skills train up in real time, and no amount of personal effort you put in will increase or decrease them. So it is a waiting game more or less, and you play EVE with the skills you currently have at present. As your skills increase over time more and more gameplay options will open up for you, but you won't be grinding to get there.
Now, one could argue that you need to grind to earn ISK (gold), but while you can earn ISK from grinding (mission running), there are other ways to earn income in EVE including mining (gathering more than grinding), market trading (the richest players generally do this), industry (everything good in EVE is made/sold by crafters), piracy (taking other people's stuff) or even scamming others (totally legal in EVE in most circumstances)
There are even more ways to earn ISK than I mentioned above, but it never really feels like grinding in the traditional sense. Also, if you are rich in real life, you can purchase game time cards (PLEX) and trade them to players in EVE for ISK and never grind for cash if you so chose. I know several people who only PVP in EVE and never do any of the PVE stuff by paying their way through.
No, I'd say EVE did the best job of any MMORPG of never makiing me feel like I was grinding too much, with the possible exception of mission running but I did that by choice, because I don't mind doing some grinding from time to time.

Ok, I'll buy that. I don't disbelieve you as much now.

** edit **
It couldn't hurt the OP to try Eve or even Perpetuum.

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Why am I doing all these quests?

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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Why am I doing all these quests?

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV