Originally posted by Wickes Originally posted by Sharkypal Thats an even bigger slap in the face, I completed the quests before the extra reward, so to add to the indignity of everyone now being able to go everywhere, I have to redo the quest to get the reward. I don't think so!
If you completed them and they were fun and productive then you should have no complaints as you got what you paid for. As an added bonus, if you found them highly enjoyable, you can now do them again for greater rewards. If you did them and didn't enjoy them then you should be happy to see undesirable elements removed from the game. No doubt you'd like to see the game attract more players and thus favor removing undesirable tedium. See .... there's no problem
Originally posted by Sharkypal Originally posted by spydermr2
Why bring this up? To quote, "I think there is more money to be made by keeping the faithful playing and not pandering to the whining masses." MORE money to be made? There may be a model that can cater to the desires of players like yourself and make money, but in no way, shape, manner, or form can it be said to be MORE profitable than something like WoW. Not even close. And I am not a fan of WoW, by any stretch. That's not the point. While I agree with much of what you said, your assessment of WoW and it's 3.5 million subscribers is not representative of the long term facts. WoW is doing well now, but I don't know where it will be in a year. No tradeskills, very quick completion path, even for someone who doesnt spend that much time on it. I played it for about 3 days and got to Lvl 23! I would agree that the majority of MMO players NOW are casual. Having said that, they don't stick around for long. I know many people who I convinced to try SWG were not around for more than 3 months. The reason, they just couldn't hack the amount of time they had to put in. As I have stated previously, these games require a considerable investment of time. In WoW's case they really reduced the investment of time necessary, thus making it far more accessible! Personally, I don't like that. If you want to talk about something that ruins "immersion" that would be the single biggest culprit. I do not want to be able to do 6 levels a day. I would comment that it is already a little bit too easy to level in EQ 2 but in the interests of balance, I don't complain. WoW on the other hand is a candy coated, cookie cutter bag of w**k. It looks like an episode of "The Smurfs" and it takes longer to "level" in BF2. I have nothing against a game like WoW, I personally don't like it but if it keeps even some of the "casual" crowd away from EQ 2, then I am all for it. I think the point that is being missed is that traditionally, MMO's such as EQ and EvE to name a few were not games where you progressed particularly fast. I like this because it guarantees that I will be able to play the game for a significant amount of time. This new process a la WoW of making as many Alts as possible and levelling every half an hour does not appeal to me! Again, no disrepect to the "casual" gamer, they have as much right to play as I do, but don't show up in the games we love demanding change to suit you!! There are plenty of games that cater to low skill/casual gamers around, don't ruin mine! S
I'll say this. I've tried many, but always came back to EQ1. Why? Cause it was one of the few that didn't just hand the world to you. At the same time, it was also the most open and immersive. Again, why? Because it didn't put up artificial limits on the exploration of the world. It didn't hand the world to the player or make it easy to level, but it also maximised a player's immersion in the world with its open design. To this date, I am waiting for a worthy sequel that keeps all the good of EQ1 and adds some of the mechanical improvements the current generation of MMORPGs are sporting.
All that said, I find WoW to be the easiest piece of tripe that has come down the pipe. I can't abide it. It's static, there is no evolution to conversations with NPCs. I mean, and this is a simple complaint, but the "let's put a big bright question mark over every NPC's head that has something you need to hear because you aren't smart enough to investigate for yourself" by itself is offensive. There, I find the EQ2 method (folks wave as you get nearer, indicating that they have something to say) a far better compromise that doesn't simultaneously eliminate the immersive factor.
Ok. Try again. Getting derailed here. I don't expect WoW to have its current subscriber base a year from now, but I do think that those of us who want an immersive world where we actually have to do something to merit the advancement, say investigate the world and learn about its lore and NOT level up so fast that you're at the max within two weeks are VASTLY outnumbered by those who want a 'quick fix'. Look at the success of GW as an example of the ultimate "quick fix". Wanna PvP? You don't even have to put any effort in. Just step into the arena and be auto-levelled to max, and go fight.
Where was I? Not doing well today, keeping on track. I don't like the phrases "hardcore" or "casual", because those don't actually relate to play styles, they relate to a raw Time usage. let's try this: those who are willing to put in a lot of time to evolve, and are looking for the world to evolve with them, are greatly outnumbered by those who want some of that but don't want to put any effort in, and they are simultaneously outnumbered by those who just want everything handed to them with the least amount of effort humanly possible.
Game subscriptions actually track that pretty well, which was my original point (at least in the US). What has the most subscriptions? The light-weight, dumbed-down ones. (This disregards bad game design, which I personally think accounts for AC2). Where is EQ2? Smack dab in the middle, though actually in the higher-tier of subscriptions OVERALL. Why? Because it's striving to accomodate those who want to evolve their characters as they play, and are willing to play for months if not years and aren't expecting to FLY to the max and literally learn everything in that short time, and those who want to evolve their characters but want to feel some significance in smaller "time-bites" and some significance with a shorter time-effort TOTAL. Nowhere does EQ2 attempt to draw the TRULY casual players, those who just wanna get in and, for lack of better words, "go shoot things" and each other. It's trying to balance itself between my two distinctions above. WoW will always have more people than EQ2, because its shooting at the much broader market.
And neither you nor I belong to that broader market. I didn't play my friggin' shaman and paladin for almost five years (plus a few months last year) in EQ1, and constantly refer to experiences while doing so as references to what new games should strive for, because I'm looking to have things handed to me. Which is why WoW, for all its initial "wow"-factor (no pun intended), wears very, very quickly -- or, it wears out as fast you can level up a character, which is about two weeks of "casual" play once you've walked around the world for a week or so. But that's for me, and I would venture to say, for you, Sharkpal... but we're outnumbered by a LONG shot.
That also isn't to say that we share a vision of what a game should be. But I can guarantee you that you and I are quite a bit closer in vision than the vast array of l33t-speaking chimps out there. Pardon my name-calling.
Thanks, all! Not even sure the whole post actually holds together, but I'm sure someone will point out where my thoughts went astray.
Thats an even bigger slap in the face, I completed the quests before the extra reward, so to add to the indignity of everyone now being able to go everywhere, I have to redo the quest to get the reward. I don't think so!
If you completed them and they were fun and productive then you should have no complaints as you got what you paid for. As an added bonus, if you found them highly enjoyable, you can now do them again for greater rewards. If you did them and didn't enjoy them then you should be happy to see undesirable elements removed from the game. No doubt you'd like to see the game attract more players and thus favor removing undesirable tedium. See .... there's no problem
QFT
Yeah, thanks for adding something constructive! If you don't have anything useful to say just shutup mmmmk? Thanks in advance.
Why bring this up? To quote, "I think there is more money to be made by keeping the faithful playing and not pandering to the whining masses." MORE money to be made? There may be a model that can cater to the desires of players like yourself and make money, but in no way, shape, manner, or form can it be said to be MORE profitable than something like WoW. Not even close. And I am not a fan of WoW, by any stretch. That's not the point.
While I agree with much of what you said, your assessment of WoW and it's 3.5 million subscribers is not representative of the long term facts. WoW is doing well now, but I don't know where it will be in a year. No tradeskills, very quick completion path, even for someone who doesnt spend that much time on it. I played it for about 3 days and got to Lvl 23! I would agree that the majority of MMO players NOW are casual. Having said that, they don't stick around for long. I know many people who I convinced to try SWG were not around for more than 3 months. The reason, they just couldn't hack the amount of time they had to put in. As I have stated previously, these games require a considerable investment of time. In WoW's case they really reduced the investment of time necessary, thus making it far more accessible! Personally, I don't like that. If you want to talk about something that ruins "immersion" that would be the single biggest culprit. I do not want to be able to do 6 levels a day. I would comment that it is already a little bit too easy to level in EQ 2 but in the interests of balance, I don't complain. WoW on the other hand is a candy coated, cookie cutter bag of w**k. It looks like an episode of "The Smurfs" and it takes longer to "level" in BF2. I have nothing against a game like WoW, I personally don't like it but if it keeps even some of the "casual" crowd away from EQ 2, then I am all for it. I think the point that is being missed is that traditionally, MMO's such as EQ and EvE to name a few were not games where you progressed particularly fast. I like this because it guarantees that I will be able to play the game for a significant amount of time. This new process a la WoW of making as many Alts as possible and levelling every half an hour does not appeal to me! Again, no disrepect to the "casual" gamer, they have as much right to play as I do, but don't show up in the games we love demanding change to suit you!! There are plenty of games that cater to low skill/casual gamers around, don't ruin mine! S
I'll say this. I've tried many, but always came back to EQ1. Why? Cause it was one of the few that didn't just hand the world to you. At the same time, it was also the most open and immersive. Again, why? Because it didn't put up artificial limits on the exploration of the world. It didn't hand the world to the player or make it easy to level, but it also maximised a player's immersion in the world with its open design. To this date, I am waiting for a worthy sequel that keeps all the good of EQ1 and adds some of the mechanical improvements the current generation of MMORPGs are sporting.
All that said, I find WoW to be the easiest piece of tripe that has come down the pipe. I can't abide it. It's static, there is no evolution to conversations with NPCs. I mean, and this is a simple complaint, but the "let's put a big bright question mark over every NPC's head that has something you need to hear because you aren't smart enough to investigate for yourself" by itself is offensive. There, I find the EQ2 method (folks wave as you get nearer, indicating that they have something to say) a far better compromise that doesn't simultaneously eliminate the immersive factor.
Ok. Try again. Getting derailed here. I don't expect WoW to have its current subscriber base a year from now, but I do think that those of us who want an immersive world where we actually have to do something to merit the advancement, say investigate the world and learn about its lore and NOT level up so fast that you're at the max within two weeks are VASTLY outnumbered by those who want a 'quick fix'. Look at the success of GW as an example of the ultimate "quick fix". Wanna PvP? You don't even have to put any effort in. Just step into the arena and be auto-levelled to max, and go fight.
Where was I? Not doing well today, keeping on track. I don't like the phrases "hardcore" or "casual", because those don't actually relate to play styles, they relate to a raw Time usage. let's try this: those who are willing to put in a lot of time to evolve, and are looking for the world to evolve with them, are greatly outnumbered by those who want some of that but don't want to put any effort in, and they are simultaneously outnumbered by those who just want everything handed to them with the least amount of effort humanly possible.
Game subscriptions actually track that pretty well, which was my original point (at least in the US). What has the most subscriptions? The light-weight, dumbed-down ones. (This disregards bad game design, which I personally think accounts for AC2). Where is EQ2? Smack dab in the middle, though actually in the higher-tier of subscriptions OVERALL. Why? Because it's striving to accomodate those who want to evolve their characters as they play, and are willing to play for months if not years and aren't expecting to FLY to the max and literally learn everything in that short time, and those who want to evolve their characters but want to feel some significance in smaller "time-bites" and some significance with a shorter time-effort TOTAL. Nowhere does EQ2 attempt to draw the TRULY casual players, those who just wanna get in and, for lack of better words, "go shoot things" and each other. It's trying to balance itself between my two distinctions above. WoW will always have more people than EQ2, because its shooting at the much broader market.
And neither you nor I belong to that broader market. I didn't play my friggin' shaman and paladin for almost five years (plus a few months last year) in EQ1, and constantly refer to experiences while doing so as references to what new games should strive for, because I'm looking to have things handed to me. Which is why WoW, for all its initial "wow"-factor (no pun intended), wears very, very quickly -- or, it wears out as fast you can level up a character, which is about two weeks of "casual" play once you've walked around the world for a week or so. But that's for me, and I would venture to say, for you, Sharkpal... but we're outnumbered by a LONG shot.
That also isn't to say that we share a vision of what a game should be. But I can guarantee you that you and I are quite a bit closer in vision than the vast array of l33t-speaking chimps out there. Pardon my name-calling.
Thanks, all! Not even sure the whole post actually holds together, but I'm sure someone will point out where my thoughts went astray.
Thats an even bigger slap in the face, I completed the quests before the extra reward, so to add to the indignity of everyone now being able to go everywhere, I have to redo the quest to get the reward. I don't think so!
If you completed them and they were fun and productive then you should have no complaints as you got what you paid for. As an added bonus, if you found them highly enjoyable, you can now do them again for greater rewards.
If you did them and didn't enjoy them then you should be happy to see undesirable elements removed from the game. No doubt you'd like to see the game attract more players and thus favor removing undesirable tedium.
See .... there's no problem
You've totally missed the point and I'm guessing you are not a serious MMO player.
Cheers
S
PS : /me hands you a copy of WoW, in case you don't have one!
Originally posted by Sharkypal EQ was always very punishing and a lot of people are put off by this. It really did a lot to exclude the casual gamer and I was quite happy with that. Not everything should be easy and coated with sugar. There are plenty of easy MMOs on the market now, but unfotunately SOE are so obsessed with stealing WoW's customers that they are always changing their games drastically. They should make a version of EQ2 called EQ2 Lite and be done with it. S
EQ2 is one of them. EQ2 is not EQ. I would have thought that was pretty obvious.
Originally posted by Sharkypal EQ was always very punishing and a lot of people are put off by this. It really did a lot to exclude the casual gamer and I was quite happy with that. Not everything should be easy and coated with sugar. There are plenty of easy MMOs on the market now, but unfotunately SOE are so obsessed with stealing WoW's customers that they are always changing their games drastically. They should make a version of EQ2 called EQ2 Lite and be done with it. S
EQ2 is one of them. EQ2 is not EQ. I would have thought that was pretty obvious.
No it isn't, its no EQ but its nothing like WoW ... sorry to burst your bubble.
Just wondering. What else will SOE do to help with the whining noobs? Next they probably remove that experience cap so people could powerlevel from level 3 to 50 in two days.
Have played: CoH, DDO EQ2, FFXI, L2, HZ, SoR, and WW2 online
From what i´ve seen of EQ2, it has nowhere near the complexity of EQ, its a very dumbeame except for the crafting game, even so, EQ2 has less active subscribers than SWG, i can see a future for SWG if SOE keeps adding content and gets their horrid balance issues fixed, but i cant for the life of me see a bright future for EQ2, the game has no lasting feature to apeal to new players, it RP even on the RP servers is inferior to the RP going on in SWG, theres more RP in EQ and with more skill involved i might add, the core game apart from RP has nothing new to offer over the Fantasy mmorpg competition and with vanguard coming out next year, i expect EQ2 to achieve.
From what i´ve seen of EQ2, it has nowhere near the complexity of EQ, its a very dumbed down game, very similar to WoW in that aspect, except for the crafting game, even so, EQ2 has less active subscribers than SWG, i can see a future for SWG if SOE keeps adding content and gets their horrid balance issues fixed, but i cant for the life of me see a bright future for EQ2, the game has no lasting feature to apeal to new players, it RP even on the RP servers is inferior to the RP going on in SWG, theres more RP in EQ and with more skill involved i might add, the core game apart from RP has nothing new to offer over the Fantasy mmorpg competition and with vanguard coming out next year, i expect EQ2 to reach a similar point to where AC1 is now.
Originally posted by Kem0sabe From what i´ve seen of EQ2, it has nowhere near the complexity of EQ, its a very dumbed down game, very similar to WoW in that aspect, except for the crafting game, even so, EQ2 has less active subscribers than SWG, i can see a future for SWG if SOE keeps adding content and gets their horrid balance issues fixed, but i cant for the life of me see a bright future for EQ2, the game has no lasting feature to apeal to new players, it RP even on the RP servers is inferior to the RP going on in SWG, theres more RP in EQ and with more skill involved i might add, the core game apart from RP has nothing new to offer over the Fantasy mmorpg competition and with vanguard coming out next year, i expect EQ2 to reach a similar point to where AC1 is now.
I dont think you really have a clue about what you are talking! You are clearly an SWG fanboy. SWG is only afloat now because of Episode 3 and unlike SWG, EQ2 is a polished and relatively bug free product. I don't know where you got your subscription numbers from but SWG has about 250K and EQ2 has 300K plus. I played SWG for 2 years and I watched it degenerate into a 0 content, PvP mess. It is a shadow of it's former self and with the constant changing of profs every week and adding of more and more buggy, flawed content, I really don't see what long term future SWG has!
My numbers may have been a little off, as of jne 2005, EQ2 - 278.000 subscribers, SWG - 255.000 subscribers, EQ - 454.000 subscribers. As you can see, those are world wide numbers, For a game that isnt even a year old and ot has already lost mopre than 50.000 subscribers since launch, does that seem like a healthy game to you my friend? EQ2 i mean, SWG has also lost players since launch, even with the current new aditions coming over because of the new movie.
The fact is, Eq2 is getting looked over by more and more players for other mmorpgs, including EQ1. The game has nothing new to offer and has the aditional trauma of having one of the most demanding game engines in the market in terms of computer hardware, like it or not, thats a big share of the market that SOE is cutting off right there, in my view their choice for such a gfx intensive engine was poorly made and is costing them. The argument that the engine is made to scale with future tecnology is a mute point, GFX are not everything in a game, look a Eq1 and its system requirements, and it has almost more 200.000 players than EQ2 has at the momment.
By the way, my source for the numbers is reliable, check it here: mmorpg chart
Sorry to disappoint you, but EQ2 is not less complex then EQ. It is easier then EQ, but by no mean less complex.
To master EQ2 all the way to the state of total mastery of the game, is at least as hard, if not harder, then old EQ. They focus more on the game, less on artificial barriers. Don't read me wrong, EQ2 is by no mean perfect...but it has it own style.
If you start to raid in EQ2, it will be less hardcore then old EQ, no single challenge will be harder then in old EQ. However, there is more to it then just to overcome the raid target. A raider is happier in EQ then in EQ2. A guilded oriented person is happier in EQ2. Will I shed a tear for raiders? As much as they did shed a tear when I realize how badly they nerf soloing and grouping!
I aint happy in either, but at least I can recognize what good they bring...and what wrong.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Thats an even bigger slap in the face, I completed the quests before the extra reward, so to add to the indignity of everyone now being able to go everywhere, I have to redo the quest to get the reward. I don't think so!
If you completed them and they were fun and productive then you should have no complaints as you got what you paid for. As an added bonus, if you found them highly enjoyable, you can now do them again for greater rewards.
If you did them and didn't enjoy them then you should be happy to see undesirable elements removed from the game. No doubt you'd like to see the game attract more players and thus favor removing undesirable tedium.
See .... there's no problem
You've totally missed the point and I'm guessing you are not a serious MMO player.
Cheers
S
PS : /me hands you a copy of WoW, in case you don't have one!
Oh, I think I got what there was of a point to get. Perhaps you didn't. Thanks for the offer of WOW ... I'll pass tho ... I see enough cartoons in the forums to do me.
I general I would agree with the comments below although the access quests did kinda force you to find a group as some parts were not soloable, and that did annoy me some times. especially as a Brit where finding groups at my playing times can be tough. I did not however know there was an auto entry level for those zones.
Originally posted by wakingdream I general I would agree with the comments below although the access quests did kinda force you to find a group as some parts were not soloable, and that did annoy me some times. especially as a Brit where finding groups at my playing times can be tough. I did not however know there was an auto entry level for those zones.
Everything in EQ2 is designed on a guild based concept.
The goal in the long run is not to make grouping nicer. It is to make peoples re-group and guilds themselves, acts as fellow guildies should. If you think about any feature in EQ2 with the solo/group/raid way of thinking, you miss the real focus, it is all about your guild.
Yes, an individual action may be done in group, or solo, or raiding. But overall, it is centered around your guild when you consider the others elements.
SoE designers are astonishing...but they are EVIL, dont trust them!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Comments
QFT
I'll say this. I've tried many, but always came back to EQ1. Why? Cause it was one of the few that didn't just hand the world to you. At the same time, it was also the most open and immersive. Again, why? Because it didn't put up artificial limits on the exploration of the world. It didn't hand the world to the player or make it easy to level, but it also maximised a player's immersion in the world with its open design. To this date, I am waiting for a worthy sequel that keeps all the good of EQ1 and adds some of the mechanical improvements the current generation of MMORPGs are sporting.
All that said, I find WoW to be the easiest piece of tripe that has come down the pipe. I can't abide it. It's static, there is no evolution to conversations with NPCs. I mean, and this is a simple complaint, but the "let's put a big bright question mark over every NPC's head that has something you need to hear because you aren't smart enough to investigate for yourself" by itself is offensive. There, I find the EQ2 method (folks wave as you get nearer, indicating that they have something to say) a far better compromise that doesn't simultaneously eliminate the immersive factor.
Ok. Try again. Getting derailed here. I don't expect WoW to have its current subscriber base a year from now, but I do think that those of us who want an immersive world where we actually have to do something to merit the advancement, say investigate the world and learn about its lore and NOT level up so fast that you're at the max within two weeks are VASTLY outnumbered by those who want a 'quick fix'. Look at the success of GW as an example of the ultimate "quick fix". Wanna PvP? You don't even have to put any effort in. Just step into the arena and be auto-levelled to max, and go fight.
Where was I? Not doing well today, keeping on track. I don't like the phrases "hardcore" or "casual", because those don't actually relate to play styles, they relate to a raw Time usage. let's try this: those who are willing to put in a lot of time to evolve, and are looking for the world to evolve with them, are greatly outnumbered by those who want some of that but don't want to put any effort in, and they are simultaneously outnumbered by those who just want everything handed to them with the least amount of effort humanly possible.
Game subscriptions actually track that pretty well, which was my original point (at least in the US). What has the most subscriptions? The light-weight, dumbed-down ones. (This disregards bad game design, which I personally think accounts for AC2). Where is EQ2? Smack dab in the middle, though actually in the higher-tier of subscriptions OVERALL. Why? Because it's striving to accomodate those who want to evolve their characters as they play, and are willing to play for months if not years and aren't expecting to FLY to the max and literally learn everything in that short time, and those who want to evolve their characters but want to feel some significance in smaller "time-bites" and some significance with a shorter time-effort TOTAL. Nowhere does EQ2 attempt to draw the TRULY casual players, those who just wanna get in and, for lack of better words, "go shoot things" and each other. It's trying to balance itself between my two distinctions above. WoW will always have more people than EQ2, because its shooting at the much broader market.
And neither you nor I belong to that broader market. I didn't play my friggin' shaman and paladin for almost five years (plus a few months last year) in EQ1, and constantly refer to experiences while doing so as references to what new games should strive for, because I'm looking to have things handed to me. Which is why WoW, for all its initial "wow"-factor (no pun intended), wears very, very quickly -- or, it wears out as fast you can level up a character, which is about two weeks of "casual" play once you've walked around the world for a week or so. But that's for me, and I would venture to say, for you, Sharkpal... but we're outnumbered by a LONG shot.
That also isn't to say that we share a vision of what a game should be. But I can guarantee you that you and I are quite a bit closer in vision than the vast array of l33t-speaking chimps out there. Pardon my name-calling.
Thanks, all! Not even sure the whole post actually holds together, but I'm sure someone will point out where my thoughts went astray.
QFT
Yeah, thanks for adding something constructive! If you don't have anything useful to say just shutup mmmmk? Thanks in advance.
S
I'll say this. I've tried many, but always came back to EQ1. Why? Cause it was one of the few that didn't just hand the world to you. At the same time, it was also the most open and immersive. Again, why? Because it didn't put up artificial limits on the exploration of the world. It didn't hand the world to the player or make it easy to level, but it also maximised a player's immersion in the world with its open design. To this date, I am waiting for a worthy sequel that keeps all the good of EQ1 and adds some of the mechanical improvements the current generation of MMORPGs are sporting.
All that said, I find WoW to be the easiest piece of tripe that has come down the pipe. I can't abide it. It's static, there is no evolution to conversations with NPCs. I mean, and this is a simple complaint, but the "let's put a big bright question mark over every NPC's head that has something you need to hear because you aren't smart enough to investigate for yourself" by itself is offensive. There, I find the EQ2 method (folks wave as you get nearer, indicating that they have something to say) a far better compromise that doesn't simultaneously eliminate the immersive factor.
Ok. Try again. Getting derailed here. I don't expect WoW to have its current subscriber base a year from now, but I do think that those of us who want an immersive world where we actually have to do something to merit the advancement, say investigate the world and learn about its lore and NOT level up so fast that you're at the max within two weeks are VASTLY outnumbered by those who want a 'quick fix'. Look at the success of GW as an example of the ultimate "quick fix". Wanna PvP? You don't even have to put any effort in. Just step into the arena and be auto-levelled to max, and go fight.
Where was I? Not doing well today, keeping on track. I don't like the phrases "hardcore" or "casual", because those don't actually relate to play styles, they relate to a raw Time usage. let's try this: those who are willing to put in a lot of time to evolve, and are looking for the world to evolve with them, are greatly outnumbered by those who want some of that but don't want to put any effort in, and they are simultaneously outnumbered by those who just want everything handed to them with the least amount of effort humanly possible.
Game subscriptions actually track that pretty well, which was my original point (at least in the US). What has the most subscriptions? The light-weight, dumbed-down ones. (This disregards bad game design, which I personally think accounts for AC2). Where is EQ2? Smack dab in the middle, though actually in the higher-tier of subscriptions OVERALL. Why? Because it's striving to accomodate those who want to evolve their characters as they play, and are willing to play for months if not years and aren't expecting to FLY to the max and literally learn everything in that short time, and those who want to evolve their characters but want to feel some significance in smaller "time-bites" and some significance with a shorter time-effort TOTAL. Nowhere does EQ2 attempt to draw the TRULY casual players, those who just wanna get in and, for lack of better words, "go shoot things" and each other. It's trying to balance itself between my two distinctions above. WoW will always have more people than EQ2, because its shooting at the much broader market.
And neither you nor I belong to that broader market. I didn't play my friggin' shaman and paladin for almost five years (plus a few months last year) in EQ1, and constantly refer to experiences while doing so as references to what new games should strive for, because I'm looking to have things handed to me. Which is why WoW, for all its initial "wow"-factor (no pun intended), wears very, very quickly -- or, it wears out as fast you can level up a character, which is about two weeks of "casual" play once you've walked around the world for a week or so. But that's for me, and I would venture to say, for you, Sharkpal... but we're outnumbered by a LONG shot.
That also isn't to say that we share a vision of what a game should be. But I can guarantee you that you and I are quite a bit closer in vision than the vast array of l33t-speaking chimps out there. Pardon my name-calling.
Thanks, all! Not even sure the whole post actually holds together, but I'm sure someone will point out where my thoughts went astray.
/Agreed
S
If you completed them and they were fun and productive then you should have no complaints as you got what you paid for. As an added bonus, if you found them highly enjoyable, you can now do them again for greater rewards.
If you did them and didn't enjoy them then you should be happy to see undesirable elements removed from the game. No doubt you'd like to see the game attract more players and thus favor removing undesirable tedium.
See .... there's no problem
You've totally missed the point and I'm guessing you are not a serious MMO player.
Cheers
S
PS : /me hands you a copy of WoW, in case you don't have one!
EQ2 is one of them. EQ2 is not EQ. I would have thought that was pretty obvious.
No it isn't, its no EQ but its nothing like WoW ... sorry to burst your bubble.
S
Just wondering. What else will SOE do to help with the whining noobs? Next they probably remove that experience cap so people could powerlevel from level 3 to 50 in two days.
Have played: CoH, DDO EQ2, FFXI, L2, HZ, SoR, and WW2 online
From what i´ve seen of EQ2, it has nowhere near the complexity of EQ, its a very dumbeame except for the crafting game, even so, EQ2 has less active subscribers than SWG, i can see a future for SWG if SOE keeps adding content and gets their horrid balance issues fixed, but i cant for the life of me see a bright future for EQ2, the game has no lasting feature to apeal to new players, it RP even on the RP servers is inferior to the RP going on in SWG, theres more RP in EQ and with more skill involved i might add, the core game apart from RP has nothing new to offer over the Fantasy mmorpg competition and with vanguard coming out next year, i expect EQ2 to achieve.
All ur Mountain Dew is belong to me.
From what i´ve seen of EQ2, it has nowhere near the complexity of EQ, its a very dumbed down game, very similar to WoW in that aspect, except for the crafting game, even so, EQ2 has less active subscribers than SWG, i can see a future for SWG if SOE keeps adding content and gets their horrid balance issues fixed, but i cant for the life of me see a bright future for EQ2, the game has no lasting feature to apeal to new players, it RP even on the RP servers is inferior to the RP going on in SWG, theres more RP in EQ and with more skill involved i might add, the core game apart from RP has nothing new to offer over the Fantasy mmorpg competition and with vanguard coming out next year, i expect EQ2 to reach a similar point to where AC1 is now.
All ur Mountain Dew is belong to me.
My numbers may have been a little off, as of jne 2005, EQ2 - 278.000 subscribers, SWG - 255.000 subscribers, EQ - 454.000 subscribers. As you can see, those are world wide numbers, For a game that isnt even a year old and ot has already lost mopre than 50.000 subscribers since launch, does that seem like a healthy game to you my friend? EQ2 i mean, SWG has also lost players since launch, even with the current new aditions coming over because of the new movie.
The fact is, Eq2 is getting looked over by more and more players for other mmorpgs, including EQ1. The game has nothing new to offer and has the aditional trauma of having one of the most demanding game engines in the market in terms of computer hardware, like it or not, thats a big share of the market that SOE is cutting off right there, in my view their choice for such a gfx intensive engine was poorly made and is costing them. The argument that the engine is made to scale with future tecnology is a mute point, GFX are not everything in a game, look a Eq1 and its system requirements, and it has almost more 200.000 players than EQ2 has at the momment.
By the way, my source for the numbers is reliable, check it here: mmorpg chart
All ur Mountain Dew is belong to me.
Kem...
Sorry to disappoint you, but EQ2 is not less complex then EQ. It is easier then EQ, but by no mean less complex.
To master EQ2 all the way to the state of total mastery of the game, is at least as hard, if not harder, then old EQ. They focus more on the game, less on artificial barriers. Don't read me wrong, EQ2 is by no mean perfect...but it has it own style.
If you start to raid in EQ2, it will be less hardcore then old EQ, no single challenge will be harder then in old EQ. However, there is more to it then just to overcome the raid target. A raider is happier in EQ then in EQ2. A guilded oriented person is happier in EQ2. Will I shed a tear for raiders? As much as they did shed a tear when I realize how badly they nerf soloing and grouping!
I aint happy in either, but at least I can recognize what good they bring...and what wrong.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
If you completed them and they were fun and productive then you should have no complaints as you got what you paid for. As an added bonus, if you found them highly enjoyable, you can now do them again for greater rewards.
If you did them and didn't enjoy them then you should be happy to see undesirable elements removed from the game. No doubt you'd like to see the game attract more players and thus favor removing undesirable tedium.
See .... there's no problem
You've totally missed the point and I'm guessing you are not a serious MMO player.
Cheers
S
PS : /me hands you a copy of WoW, in case you don't have one!
Oh, I think I got what there was of a point to get. Perhaps you didn't. Thanks for the offer of WOW ... I'll pass tho ... I see enough cartoons in the forums to do me.
I general I would agree with the comments below although the access quests did kinda force you to find a group as some parts were not soloable, and that did annoy me some times. especially as a Brit where finding groups at my playing times can be tough. I did not however know there was an auto entry level for those zones.
Everything in EQ2 is designed on a guild based concept.
The goal in the long run is not to make grouping nicer. It is to make peoples re-group and guilds themselves, acts as fellow guildies should. If you think about any feature in EQ2 with the solo/group/raid way of thinking, you miss the real focus, it is all about your guild.
Yes, an individual action may be done in group, or solo, or raiding. But overall, it is centered around your guild when you consider the others elements.
SoE designers are astonishing...but they are EVIL, dont trust them!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren