I know there is 2-3 months of game time in SWTOR for me and if I unsub then I will feel like I got my monies worth. I do hope they add more content for level 50 because I can feel the pain of people who really get attached to their characters and then have no where to go with them. In a way that is why I am playing a lot of alts. I am almost scared of capping my favourite characters.
My problem with alts is that there is not much difference in what you do. Yeah you get a about 6 or so story line quests per world, but after that it is exactly the same path. Atleast WoW had one alliance 3 start areas, 3 second areas and from there to two paths. And this was at start. SWTOR for its big budget seems to have spent it all on the voice acting and forgot to add content or something to slow down the process and add more.
This kills my replayability because I am the type of player that takes forever to get to top level because I am leveling about 16 characters at the same time.
I'm happy with the game presently, but I have grown into a very casual gamer over the years. I don't think I have logged 20 hours on the game since launch mainly do to work. Not complaining as jobs are scarce and I'd like to keep mine.
Still, I haven't clocked 20 gametime hours yet at this point. I'm excited the game had a good launch and look forward to what they implement in their first 6 updates.
My outlook on the game as it stands is that it need to be fun for my spouse and myself to run around in. Once we committed to playing the game, we committed to playing it for 7 months or 6 game updates... Whichever comes first.
I'm sorry so many stalwart champions of the game are dissolusioned though.
I have came to the conclution that if games like SWTOR and RIFT lack content to you people then we can say goodbye to the days of 500k+ sub numbers and hello to the "Play the MMO for a few months then leave" era.
They don't lack content as such, but you run through it too fast. What TOR misses right now is endgame content, not the same thing.
I didn't need to get any near level 50 (not even 30s) to get really tired of the game content. The stories are good, but not that good as to make me enjoy the same old gameplay.
No amount of content with the same game would make reconsider the decision :P
It's sad these gameplay mechanics are still used.
Chess/Go/Starcraft/Team Fortress/etc etc: Those are real game mechanics that can stand the test of time (to some level each).
Tiny icon flashes and waiting for cool downs: Tetris has a more engaging experience. Same combinations are always used, and what really makes a difference is the gear and character stats (a static factor).
It's always a sad day when such a vehent defender of a game is brought kicking and screaming into reality. It's almost like when "LonghornTex" over at DC Universe Online finally broke down and threw his hands up over SOE's mismanagement with that game.
Have faith, Pony. 2012 is going to bring with it a bumper crop of awesome MMO's. In 3-4 months you won't even remember TOR.
Thank you for your post. It completely proved my point two posts above regarding the effect a thread like this has and the responses it would get...I never liked it, now you don't like it, so that must mean everyone playing and enjoying themselves shouldn't like it either because we are not in reality. Ridiculous.
um... what?
im still subbed... im still playing... i will continue to play until another MMO that i enjoy more releases (which wont be hard).
PS: i dont care what "effect" my posts have on people.
1) if people are swayed because of another players post... then they dont deserve to play the game. i have no compasion for, nor do i give a thought to sheep. make your OWN opinions.
2) if someone is dis-satisfied with a service/product and there is an open medium for them to tell other people about it. they will. i dont care that its giving your precious game a bad name. it sucks and the ONLY reason it did as well as it did as fast as it did is because of its release date. as soon as something else comes out it will die just as fast.
- Scrap the fleets: make capitals actually the capitals.
- Crafting incentives in the open world rather than just picking up the base, green materials when they happen to be in your way and the rest through commanding your companions.
- Also make end game crafting more worthwhile and not tied into flashpoint schematic drops or bop schematics. As an armstech crafter who doesn't like raiding so much, endgame crafting as of now is non-existant.
- More long term gameplay incentives other than tier herp derp gear: stuff to save for at 50. Like housing, other spaceships, sicker mounts, etc. Right now, most long term incentives are tied in to alternative, commendation currencies.
- Stimulate world pvp; add world pvp quests or incentives to each world. Make killing players of your own level range worthwhile.
- More intimate, immersive, roleplay stimulating cantina's and mechanics. The Prancing Pony in Lotro springs to mind. Making music, sitting on chairs, etc, etc.
- Optimization of the engine: shorter loading times, less resource intensive, better performance.
Special wish beyond the current content:
- Add a significant space expansion with free roaming, mining, pvp, multiplayer spaceships, etc.
Props to you Pony. For the OP, and for this.
I'd find it hard to disagree with anything on that list. In fact, on the first point, the capitals WERE capitals for a long time in testing - which made all the to-ing and fro-ing from them during chapter closes less of a headache. The fleets were a relatively late addition, and came when all the 'extra' flashpoints were introduced. I guess they were looking at it as a convenience thing... but I'm not sure that they didn't have an adverse effect in the end.
I'm still not at 50, and I've got a stable of alts coming up behind me. Including a trooper and a smuggler Reoublic side.
Pony's not kidding about the amount of 50's on Lord Calypho either, I play there too, and there's constant spam on the Fleet about people looking for healers/tanks for 50 Hard Modes.
I'm not the type to be all about the endgame, never have been, but I know I want to see how the stories end for quite a few classes, so I'm shoring up legacy levels in advance of finding out what I can do with them : ) Have also planned a datacron-hunting expedition with guildies when more of us get closer to 50 (Fleet museum, here we come!). Dunno what I'll do after that, I have some guildies who are interested in running Operations, and as I'm a healer I may give them a whirl. I'm really not the raiding type though...having a raiding schedule makes a game fell like a job to me.
Hopefully the nerfs to cybertech and biochem in this patch means that there are buffs incoming for to the other professions - and I say that as someone who has bio/bio/diplo on my main. Pony is far from the first I've seen talking about armormech (and armstech) as next to useless at 50.
I'm glad it only took me open beta to figure out this game was a disaster. Even king fanboi of swtor who was defending the game not even a week ago is finally brought to his knees. This game is poorly made and I honestly hope it crashes and burns... bad.
The type of crap they have plated up for us would set back the MMO genre even further than it already is if it had been a successs.
Why would a game that builds upon those before it just like every FPS game out there has done in the last 10 years set back the MMO genre when what it really did is take the success of AOC tortage and make that experience look like nothing in comparison? Also, why do you find a need to use lables like fanboi as if liking a game is something wrong when hovering in the forums of something one doesn't like seems a little weird to me.
AoC Tortage was not an MMORPG feature, even Funcom said before release that they would focus on single player experience in the first 20 levels. SW:TOR took that single player aspect and applied it to the entire leveling range, effectively creating a single player game with some MMORPG features added and that is setting the genre back.
MMORPGs are the evolution of single and regular multiplayer games. Now however it seems to devolving back to where it came from and that is going backwards instead of forward.
First off, its only single player if you want it to be. You could easily dismiss your companion and play with another person just like in any other MMO. There are also tons of multiplayer options, heroic quests, flashpoints, operations, PVP scenarios, etc. Have you done ANY research on the game?
As far as AOC, that wasn't my point. The point is that tortage received rave reviews because of the voice overs and sense of purpose/story. If you can't remember all the player feedback that they wished this was the design throughout the entire game than you just don't want to see the truth. TOR improved upon that aspect with voiceovers throughtout the entire game, NEVER done before in an MMO, made one feel like they were actually roleplaying to some degree and anyone with any MMO background would know that it IS an improvement from reading walls of text, hitting accept, and not caring which is what most honest people will admit to.
I'm glad it only took me open beta to figure out this game was a disaster. Even king fanboi of swtor who was defending the game not even a week ago is finally brought to his knees. This game is poorly made and I honestly hope it crashes and burns... bad.
The type of crap they have plated up for us would set back the MMO genre even further than it already is if it had been a successs.
Why would a game that builds upon those before it just like every FPS game out there has done in the last 10 years set back the MMO genre when what it really did is take the success of AOC tortage and make that experience look like nothing in comparison? Also, why do you find a need to use lables like fanboi as if liking a game is something wrong when hovering in the forums of something one doesn't like seems a little weird to me.
AoC Tortage was not an MMORPG feature, even Funcom said before release that they would focus on single player experience in the first 20 levels. SW:TOR took that single player aspect and applied it to the entire leveling range, effectively creating a single player game with some MMORPG features added and that is setting the genre back.
MMORPGs are the evolution of single and regular multiplayer games. Now however it seems to devolving back to where it came from and that is going backwards instead of forward.
First off, its only single player if you want it to be. You could easily dismiss your companion and play with another person just like in any other MMO. There are also tons of multiplayer options, heroic quests, flashpoints, operations, PVP scenarios, etc. Have you done ANY research on the game?
As far as AOC, that wasn't my point. The point is that tortage received rave reviews because of the voice overs and sense of purpose/story. If you can't remember all the player feedback that they wished this was the design throughout the entire game than you just don't want to see the truth. TOR improved upon that aspect with voiceovers throughtout the entire game, NEVER done before in an MMO, made one feel like they were actually roleplaying to some degree and anyone with any MMO background would know that it IS an improvement from reading walls of text, hitting accept, and not caring which is what most honest people will admit to.
Doing errands with a small group, clearing up a dungeon of mostly static creatures, playing a match with a medium sized group vs another medium sized group, those are all the sad multiplayer options the so-called MMOs offer, under different names and presentations, but none of them are actually Massively Multiplayer and we can actually see cooperative and competitive multiplayer games doing a much better job at them.
Aren't they supposed to be living worlds? It looks more like a hub for group activities with an integrated chat box.
I'm glad it only took me open beta to figure out this game was a disaster. Even king fanboi of swtor who was defending the game not even a week ago is finally brought to his knees. This game is poorly made and I honestly hope it crashes and burns... bad.
The type of crap they have plated up for us would set back the MMO genre even further than it already is if it had been a successs.
Why would a game that builds upon those before it just like every FPS game out there has done in the last 10 years set back the MMO genre when what it really did is take the success of AOC tortage and make that experience look like nothing in comparison? Also, why do you find a need to use lables like fanboi as if liking a game is something wrong when hovering in the forums of something one doesn't like seems a little weird to me.
AoC Tortage was not an MMORPG feature, even Funcom said before release that they would focus on single player experience in the first 20 levels. SW:TOR took that single player aspect and applied it to the entire leveling range, effectively creating a single player game with some MMORPG features added and that is setting the genre back.
MMORPGs are the evolution of single and regular multiplayer games. Now however it seems to devolving back to where it came from and that is going backwards instead of forward.
First off, its only single player if you want it to be. You could easily dismiss your companion and play with another person just like in any other MMO. There are also tons of multiplayer options, heroic quests, flashpoints, operations, PVP scenarios, etc. Have you done ANY research on the game?
As far as AOC, that wasn't my point. The point is that tortage received rave reviews because of the voice overs and sense of purpose/story. If you can't remember all the player feedback that they wished this was the design throughout the entire game than you just don't want to see the truth. TOR improved upon that aspect with voiceovers throughtout the entire game, NEVER done before in an MMO, made one feel like they were actually roleplaying to some degree and anyone with any MMO background would know that it IS an improvement from reading walls of text, hitting accept, and not caring which is what most honest people will admit to.
Doing errands with a small group, clearing up a dungeon of mostly static creatures, playing a match with a medium sized group vs another medium sized group, those are all the sad multiplayer options the so-called MMOs offer, under different names and presentations, but none of them are actually Massively Multiplayer and we can actually see cooperative and competitive multiplayer games doing a much better job at them.
Aren't they supposed to be living worlds? It looks more like a hub for group activities with an integrated chat box.
I totally agree with you that I want it to feel more alive and that the social part needs to improve, but all of this big steps backwards and not acknowledging the game for what its good for is a bunch of BS. I also understand this isn't Skyrim.
wow....DarkPony....what happened? Never thought you would bail out on this game so early
When I think about TOR on these forums you and MMO.Maverick always come to mind. You guys were really exited about this game, now I see this and I haven't seen a post from Maverick in a while...(although I haven't been here in a while).
I always thought this game was too themepark for ppl on these forums to like, just like Maverick used to say. Any wow basher will not like this game in the long run and many folks in these forums bash wow.
At least he reached level 50, gratz.?? I couldn't make it past level 16 because of the annoying ability delay. Sad thing is that even if the game goes F2P. I wouldn't touch it again. How much money was invested in developing this MMO again?
- Scrap the fleets: make capitals actually the capitals.
- Crafting incentives in the open world rather than just picking up the base, green materials when they happen to be in your way and the rest through commanding your companions.
- Also make end game crafting more worthwhile and not tied into flashpoint schematic drops or bop schematics. As an armstech crafter who doesn't like raiding so much, endgame crafting as of now is non-existant.
- More long term gameplay incentives other than tier herp derp gear: stuff to save for at 50. Like housing, other spaceships, sicker mounts, etc. Right now, most long term incentives are tied in to alternative, commendation currencies.
- Stimulate world pvp; add world pvp quests or incentives to each world. Make killing players of your own level range worthwhile.
- More intimate, immersive, roleplay stimulating cantina's and mechanics. The Prancing Pony in Lotro springs to mind. Making music, sitting on chairs, etc, etc.
- Optimization of the engine: shorter loading times, less resource intensive, better performance.
Special wish beyond the current content:
- Add a significant space expansion with free roaming, mining, pvp, multiplayer spaceships, etc.
Agree 100%
Not to 50 yet, have a 60 day time card already active so no plans to stop playing between now and then... but we'll see.
The game just came out a month ago. WoW didn't come out with content either. People did the same thing in WoW they ran fast to max level got to the max level and got bored fast and quit. If you remember at that time they said the same thing you are saying now.... think back a little and then .... realize how dumb you sound!!!
After reading the above I mentioned pls close this thread because its pointless after the point I have made above! Thanks!!!!
It took months to level a character to 60 in WoW, not weeks. I remember that journey, and that journey was fun. But it was long. Much longer than what they've revamped it to in WoW's current incarnation.
I expected this all along. I have had alot of fun leveling up a few different characters on both sides. But yea, as an MMO that you keep playing after you get to 50.. it's pretty much a failure and doesn't live up to the quality of other games with more options.
I wish there was more strategy involved or something in the game that would give it more replay value, unfortunately it's gets repetetive.. I'll come back for another month when they release and expansion or add alot more content.
I unsubbed due level 50 weak content. (Ilum, Belsavis, Huttball, Vomit)
Also leveling is far too quick. Even hardcore gamers shouldn't be able to do this in such a short time span.
I think so too. They needed to stretch out the leveling time alot more. But how do they do that? They would have to add ALOT more quests and more voice acting. It's not like they can make the leveling process last for 6 months to a year like a grind / camp game like Everquest. This is where they have pigeonholed themselves. Making new content costs them way more money and takes much longer than any other type of MMO.
One thing I noticed is that you recieve too much XP just for conversing with your companion at times. I remember getting 30,000 xp after just a couple of conversations. I never thought I would complain about too much XP.
its ironic I guess .. I was pretty vocal about things I didn't like about this game .. but I am still playing =P .. though I do still feel this game has serious problems. It just isn't fun at 50. But I have friends that like it .. or they are stubborn .. or something .. so ill be here till something better comes along or I break down and go try rift or vanguard again ..
I know for a fact I wont be playing this game much longer though. we did our first raid a cpl of weeks ago. I logged in late as I had a prior commitment and they had already cleared EV .. for the first time .. without reading strats. I guess im not completely surprised .. that seems to be the mmo world today .. but that is why so many people are so quickly dissatisfied with endgame. there is zero challenge unless you go do hard mode in corellia gear or something.
what got me into raiding was the trials and tribulations and coming out the victor with your (then) 39 other companions .. the hardest part these days is not falling asleep.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Comments
I know there is 2-3 months of game time in SWTOR for me and if I unsub then I will feel like I got my monies worth. I do hope they add more content for level 50 because I can feel the pain of people who really get attached to their characters and then have no where to go with them. In a way that is why I am playing a lot of alts. I am almost scared of capping my favourite characters.
My problem with alts is that there is not much difference in what you do. Yeah you get a about 6 or so story line quests per world, but after that it is exactly the same path. Atleast WoW had one alliance 3 start areas, 3 second areas and from there to two paths. And this was at start. SWTOR for its big budget seems to have spent it all on the voice acting and forgot to add content or something to slow down the process and add more.
This kills my replayability because I am the type of player that takes forever to get to top level because I am leveling about 16 characters at the same time.
I'm happy with the game presently, but I have grown into a very casual gamer over the years. I don't think I have logged 20 hours on the game since launch mainly do to work. Not complaining as jobs are scarce and I'd like to keep mine.
Still, I haven't clocked 20 gametime hours yet at this point. I'm excited the game had a good launch and look forward to what they implement in their first 6 updates.
My outlook on the game as it stands is that it need to be fun for my spouse and myself to run around in. Once we committed to playing the game, we committed to playing it for 7 months or 6 game updates... Whichever comes first.
I'm sorry so many stalwart champions of the game are dissolusioned though.
I didn't need to get any near level 50 (not even 30s) to get really tired of the game content. The stories are good, but not that good as to make me enjoy the same old gameplay.
No amount of content with the same game would make reconsider the decision :P
It's sad these gameplay mechanics are still used.
Chess/Go/Starcraft/Team Fortress/etc etc: Those are real game mechanics that can stand the test of time (to some level each).
Tiny icon flashes and waiting for cool downs: Tetris has a more engaging experience. Same combinations are always used, and what really makes a difference is the gear and character stats (a static factor).
um... what?
im still subbed... im still playing... i will continue to play until another MMO that i enjoy more releases (which wont be hard).
PS: i dont care what "effect" my posts have on people.
1) if people are swayed because of another players post... then they dont deserve to play the game. i have no compasion for, nor do i give a thought to sheep. make your OWN opinions.
2) if someone is dis-satisfied with a service/product and there is an open medium for them to tell other people about it. they will. i dont care that its giving your precious game a bad name. it sucks and the ONLY reason it did as well as it did as fast as it did is because of its release date. as soon as something else comes out it will die just as fast.
Props to you Pony. For the OP, and for this.
I'd find it hard to disagree with anything on that list. In fact, on the first point, the capitals WERE capitals for a long time in testing - which made all the to-ing and fro-ing from them during chapter closes less of a headache. The fleets were a relatively late addition, and came when all the 'extra' flashpoints were introduced. I guess they were looking at it as a convenience thing... but I'm not sure that they didn't have an adverse effect in the end.
I'm still not at 50, and I've got a stable of alts coming up behind me. Including a trooper and a smuggler Reoublic side.
Pony's not kidding about the amount of 50's on Lord Calypho either, I play there too, and there's constant spam on the Fleet about people looking for healers/tanks for 50 Hard Modes.
I'm not the type to be all about the endgame, never have been, but I know I want to see how the stories end for quite a few classes, so I'm shoring up legacy levels in advance of finding out what I can do with them : ) Have also planned a datacron-hunting expedition with guildies when more of us get closer to 50 (Fleet museum, here we come!). Dunno what I'll do after that, I have some guildies who are interested in running Operations, and as I'm a healer I may give them a whirl. I'm really not the raiding type though...having a raiding schedule makes a game fell like a job to me.
Hopefully the nerfs to cybertech and biochem in this patch means that there are buffs incoming for to the other professions - and I say that as someone who has bio/bio/diplo on my main. Pony is far from the first I've seen talking about armormech (and armstech) as next to useless at 50.
First off, its only single player if you want it to be. You could easily dismiss your companion and play with another person just like in any other MMO. There are also tons of multiplayer options, heroic quests, flashpoints, operations, PVP scenarios, etc. Have you done ANY research on the game?
As far as AOC, that wasn't my point. The point is that tortage received rave reviews because of the voice overs and sense of purpose/story. If you can't remember all the player feedback that they wished this was the design throughout the entire game than you just don't want to see the truth. TOR improved upon that aspect with voiceovers throughtout the entire game, NEVER done before in an MMO, made one feel like they were actually roleplaying to some degree and anyone with any MMO background would know that it IS an improvement from reading walls of text, hitting accept, and not caring which is what most honest people will admit to.
There Is Always Hope!
Doing errands with a small group, clearing up a dungeon of mostly static creatures, playing a match with a medium sized group vs another medium sized group, those are all the sad multiplayer options the so-called MMOs offer, under different names and presentations, but none of them are actually Massively Multiplayer and we can actually see cooperative and competitive multiplayer games doing a much better job at them.
Aren't they supposed to be living worlds? It looks more like a hub for group activities with an integrated chat box.
I totally agree with you that I want it to feel more alive and that the social part needs to improve, but all of this big steps backwards and not acknowledging the game for what its good for is a bunch of BS. I also understand this isn't Skyrim.
There Is Always Hope!
wow....DarkPony....what happened? Never thought you would bail out on this game so early
When I think about TOR on these forums you and MMO.Maverick always come to mind. You guys were really exited about this game, now I see this and I haven't seen a post from Maverick in a while...(although I haven't been here in a while).
I always thought this game was too themepark for ppl on these forums to like, just like Maverick used to say. Any wow basher will not like this game in the long run and many folks in these forums bash wow.
At least he reached level 50, gratz.?? I couldn't make it past level 16 because of the annoying ability delay. Sad thing is that even if the game goes F2P. I wouldn't touch it again. How much money was invested in developing this MMO again?
Agree 100%
Not to 50 yet, have a 60 day time card already active so no plans to stop playing between now and then... but we'll see.
It took months to level a character to 60 in WoW, not weeks. I remember that journey, and that journey was fun. But it was long. Much longer than what they've revamped it to in WoW's current incarnation.
Re: SWTOR
"Remember, remember - Kakk says 'December.'"
I unsubbed due level 50 weak content. (Ilum, Belsavis, Huttball, Vomit)
Also leveling is far too quick. Even hardcore gamers shouldn't be able to do this in such a short time span.
I expected this all along. I have had alot of fun leveling up a few different characters on both sides. But yea, as an MMO that you keep playing after you get to 50.. it's pretty much a failure and doesn't live up to the quality of other games with more options.
I wish there was more strategy involved or something in the game that would give it more replay value, unfortunately it's gets repetetive.. I'll come back for another month when they release and expansion or add alot more content.
I think so too. They needed to stretch out the leveling time alot more. But how do they do that? They would have to add ALOT more quests and more voice acting. It's not like they can make the leveling process last for 6 months to a year like a grind / camp game like Everquest. This is where they have pigeonholed themselves. Making new content costs them way more money and takes much longer than any other type of MMO.
One thing I noticed is that you recieve too much XP just for conversing with your companion at times. I remember getting 30,000 xp after just a couple of conversations. I never thought I would complain about too much XP.
its ironic I guess .. I was pretty vocal about things I didn't like about this game .. but I am still playing =P .. though I do still feel this game has serious problems. It just isn't fun at 50. But I have friends that like it .. or they are stubborn .. or something .. so ill be here till something better comes along or I break down and go try rift or vanguard again ..
I know for a fact I wont be playing this game much longer though. we did our first raid a cpl of weeks ago. I logged in late as I had a prior commitment and they had already cleared EV .. for the first time .. without reading strats. I guess im not completely surprised .. that seems to be the mmo world today .. but that is why so many people are so quickly dissatisfied with endgame. there is zero challenge unless you go do hard mode in corellia gear or something.
what got me into raiding was the trials and tribulations and coming out the victor with your (then) 39 other companions .. the hardest part these days is not falling asleep.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already