This is a starwars game w/o any space... The "loading screens" between planets do not count in my eyes. No flying of any kind. I know people hate the idea of flying mounts, but this is a SciFi MMO Starwars.... They fly in the movies, you should fly in the game. In fact, entire zones should REQUIRE flying mounts to get around (Think TBC zones that more or less required it).
StarWars was about walkers, tanks, flying craft, vehicles.... So much more than just a guy running around with a blaster or light saber.
This game is not based off the Starwars movies. It's based off the KOTOR universe which is based in the SW universe but not canon. You don't hear talks about midichlorians do you?
When it comes down to it,putting 'haters' and 'fanbois' aside..
I think we all really wanted this game to do well,it was so largely hyped and everyone is dying to get an MMO they can REALLY sink their teeth into,whens the last one where you actually COULD?.But once the curtain fell and we bit in,it yet again,fell short of a lot of our expectations.Some realised this early and became 'haters' to those who actually do like ToR and to those who maybe just didnt want to admit it or didnt realise right away that the game is just another flash in the pan.
I know I feel let down and am becoming ever more hesitant about future MMO's (GW2,AA,TSW, et al) will any of them ever live up to their hype? Im really beginning to lose hope that they actually will
What I am hoping for is that Bioware was smart enough to already make all the future content, and will release it slowly over time. I hope they already have all the additional level 50 content, with all the voice acting just waiting to be patched into the game. I do not see how they would not have a huge chunk just waiting to be release. Hey, we all have out own little dreams
Reading your post literally made me sad. I know how psyched you were for this game, and I always enjoyed reading your posts even if I did disagree with them most of the time. So I feel for you that the game didn't live up to your expectations. And then at the end you have to put that horribly sad pony pic...you cut me deep lol
But yeah, that always sucks when you get to that point where you realize the game doesn't have anything left to offer. And I totally agree with what you recommended in your other posts. The fleet as the capital is just a terrible idea...makes the only social hub in the game into a horribly bland, utilitarian environment.
Oh well...we'll both just have to wait for the next big MMORPG .
Yeah, I never got why they didn't make the capital cities the main hubs, Dromund kaas for imperials and coruscant for republic. It would have been much better in every way.
Those three games advertise a different type of endgame. From eachother, and from WoW/Rift/TOR.
I don't know how true it'll turn out to be, but I don't think the problem is lack endgame content, so much as type of endgame content, or endgame content diversity. Which is to say, those game may not offer more content, but will hopefully appeal to players who want a different sort of endgame. Even if it is similarly light at release.
GW2 all in all has no end game, its PvP from what I can tell is a lot like SWTOR's is now (Anyone can do it and everyone is thrown in at level 10-50) with the exception of endgame WPvP for SWTOR, heavily casual in that it takes the same amount of time to get from 10-11 as it does 54-55. People will level find that there is less end game then even SWTOR and leave.
TSW and AA are sandbox games, AA from the looks of it seems to be a little like WoW combat wise save for the combo system and it being a sandbox (With no major IP attacht) means that its more then likely to go at best the way of EvE.
Don't know all to much about TSW.
But as I said before if TOR and RIFT do not (In a year or so) have a good solid playing base of 1mil+ and 300k+ respectivly then the MMO genre is fucked IMO and no game will be able to ever again get over a million subs.
I disagree with just about everything you just said, but only time will tell which of us is right
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I disagree with just about everything you just said, but only time will tell which of us is right
TBH I am curious,
If TOR with its 10 or so dungeons that have level 50 mode plus hard and nightmare mode with 2 raids and another dungeon coming with content patch AND world PvP that is getting fixed isn't enought to get some people who I will not name to say, "You know what maybe this game won't go the route of WAR." Then what makes those same people think that the 3 games I mention will hold a large portion of peoples interest?
I always giggle when people blast through an MMO at ridiculous speed and then wonder why they're getting tired of it. Get a hobby, pick up a book, go outside. A part time job maybe? People who spend 60 hours a week playing an MMO are experiencing something called 'burning out'. Take it a little slow, enjoy the game.
Dang, brutal, see how fanboys quickly through pervious fans under the bus.
Dark Pony let me be the first to welcome you to the REAL dark side.
Hehe, I'm not much of a "hater" though if that's what you mean. Like others reasoned; this game can in fact be turned around for a great deal. There's vast potential to be uncovered if they address a few crucial points. Not only by additional development but also simply shift around some mechanics here and there.
Even relatively simple things like adding endgame crafting incentives to the worlds rather than bop and flashpoint related only, making world pvp kills meaningful and adding shared questing objectives on each world, putting the pvp quest box in the middle of the cantina, etc., etc.
I agree with you that the basics are good, I too enjoy the story of my chars and levelling a lot. And I also agree, it would not be so difficult to change or add things to make it much better in terms of longevity. However, I am kinda reluctant to believe, because if they did not add it by now, why should they make it now? They had years and tons of money. And they have defended their decision always with "their better vision" against EVERY critique.
And still, they acted as if SWTOR was the first MMO ever, as if we never had seen things implemented better. Why did they not learn from these MMOs? Why did they make themselves blind to all things that worked well in other MMOs? I don't understand that. Is it arrogance? Or stupidity? I don't get it why they failed to copy the most working and succesful and simple elements from ANY other MMO.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Those three games advertise a different type of endgame. From eachother, and from WoW/Rift/TOR.
I don't know how true it'll turn out to be, but I don't think the problem is lack endgame content, so much as type of endgame content, or endgame content diversity. Which is to say, those game may not offer more content, but will hopefully appeal to players who want a different sort of endgame. Even if it is similarly light at release.
GW2 all in all has no end game, its PvP from what I can tell is a lot like SWTOR's is now (Anyone can do it and everyone is thrown in at level 10-50) with the exception of endgame WPvP for SWTOR, heavily casual in that it takes the same amount of time to get from 10-11 as it does 54-55. People will level find that there is less end game then even SWTOR and leave.
The difference is that in GW2's structured PvP, everyone, level 1 or 80 will have the EXACT same abilities and stats available to them. It is completely fair in a leveling sense. A level 80 character has no advantages over a level 1.
TSW and AA are sandbox games, AA from the looks of it seems to be a little like WoW combat wise save for the combo system and it being a sandbox (With no major IP attacht) means that its more then likely to go at best the way of EvE.
AA is a sandbox/themepark hybrid, and from what I've learned, TSW is kind of like a themepark/adventure-game hybrid.
Don't know all to much about TSW.
But as I said before if TOR and RIFT do not (In a year or so) have a good solid playing base of 1mil+ and 300k+ respectivly then the MMO genre is fucked IMO and no game will be able to ever again get over a million subs.
How do you figure? Just look at the legion of games that plummeted in subs before SWTOR and Rift came out...MMORPG genre is still trucking on.
The same story always. Every game have it. People rush to max level, and then complai. The game is a few months old, and off course the game have to devolope over time.
Why is you allready lvl 50? maybe enjoy the game instead. Take some days off sometimes.
I have played since launch, and I just dinged 20 today.
Grats so did I I've had it since just after christmas . I've played for two- three hours a day . I think maybe some of the problem with getting to level 50 that quickly is not everyone has been in a huge rush so you dont have lots of people at max level to play the end game with .
I cant help feelng what people would have thought when they got to max level in Vanilla WoW in month one . There were two battlegrounds available and a handful of endgame instances .
They would have been in a similar boat .
I think the point is not that 'powerlevelers' have hit 50 quickly i.e. in 3 days it is the fact that lots of people have hit 50 already. The 'average players' are hitting 50 well before the end of the first month. Indeed I find it ironic that there were people who would say "people shouldn't rush, I have taken my time and have only hit 35 on my main and 20s on my alts ..... after 2 weeks. And that's without people twinking their characters etc. - usually leveling gets faster as people get to grips with the game etc.
Now level 20 from .... EGA? .... is pretty slow imo but that's OK as well. As long as the game is fun. (In EQ1 level 20 could take a year so if you want slow leveling .........)
And if you feel the need to bring up WoW at leats be accurate and check out the patch history.
Blackrock Spire, Stratholme, Wintersprings, Scholomance, Eastern and Western Plaguelands (Andorhal), Onyxia and Molten Core were all in before launch. And the first content update in December (so prior to the EU launch) added Maraudon. Scarlet Monastery, Blackfathom Deeps, Gnomeregan, Uldaman, Sunken Temple, Razorfen Downs were in as well. Plus a host of other stuff.
I was there - one of the first 60 necros on our server - and without knocking SWTOR can say with absolute certainty that WoW had more day 1 content than SWTOR. (And the content kept coming).
Why are you listing instances that are nothing to do with the endgame in vanilla WoW ???? Think you missed the point of my post and went off on one on what you thought was said .
I'd agree though Vanilla WoW was far superior to StarWars ToR but in the initial month the endgame was pretty limited .The content did indeed keep coming and it may with ToR . I wish the content that kept coming had been upto the standard of those first two or three years .
When it comes down to it,putting 'haters' and 'fanbois' aside..
I think we all really wanted this game to do well,it was so largely hyped and everyone is dying to get an MMO they can REALLY sink their teeth into,whens the last one where you actually COULD?.But once the curtain fell and we bit in,it yet again,fell short of a lot of our expectations.Some realised this early and became 'haters' to those who actually do like ToR and to those who maybe just didnt want to admit it or didnt realise right away that the game is just another flash in the pan.
I know I feel let down and am becoming ever more hesitant about future MMO's (GW2,AA,TSW, et al) will any of them ever live up to their hype? Im really beginning to lose hope that they actually will
No, none of them will live up to the hype. Nothing ever does, and when the hype goes on for years how can a game possibly live up to what we're manipulated into wanting it to be - and hype/advertising/call it what you will is manipulation. It's like Xmas, once you're past the age of 8 or whatever the best part of it is the anticipation - and that's what we're sold long before these games are even close to release.
Anyway, my point is you don't have to lose hope, you just have to manage your own expectations. None of those games will be what we think they're going to be, but that doesn't mean they won't be fun for what they are. And for as long as they're fun for.
Game lost it's appeal for me within the first weekend. Maybe i'm just burned out with MMO's, i dunno but the constant running around go kill 10 of these, get back, only to get send back where you came from to deliever something, it's just plain boring. And to the OP, i guess if you reach 50 and have nothing to do, i could pretty much understand how boring the game has become to you. Devs need to think outside the box, we've been playing these games for almost 10 years now, we need something new and not just the same old, same old only with a new paint on it.
Game lost it's appeal for me within the first weekend. Maybe i'm just burned out with MMO's, i dunno but the constant running around go kill 10 of these, get back, only to get send back where you came from to deliever something, it's just plain boring. And to the OP, i guess if you reach 50 and have nothing to do, i could pretty much understand how boring the game has become to you. Devs need to think outside the box, we've been playing these games for almost 10 years now, we need something new and not just the same old, same old only with a new paint on it.
How would you change it?
I've been thinking about how fed up I am with the kill x quests. The conclusion I have is it's not the kill x quests that's the problem but the whole combat system widely adapted in the genre. If fighting was fun then fighting is what you want to do. If there's a counter up in the corner then it shouldn't matter, because killing things would be fun. .. the fact is it isn't. I can only contribute that to a boring combat system.
Those three games advertise a different type of endgame. From eachother, and from WoW/Rift/TOR.
I don't know how true it'll turn out to be, but I don't think the problem is lack endgame content, so much as type of endgame content, or endgame content diversity. Which is to say, those game may not offer more content, but will hopefully appeal to players who want a different sort of endgame. Even if it is similarly light at release.
GW2 all in all has no end game, its PvP from what I can tell is a lot like SWTOR's is now (Anyone can do it and everyone is thrown in at level 10-50) with the exception of endgame WPvP for SWTOR, heavily casual in that it takes the same amount of time to get from 10-11 as it does 54-55. People will level find that there is less end game then even SWTOR and leave.
The difference is that in GW2's structured PvP, everyone, level 1 or 80 will have the EXACT same abilities and stats available to them. It is completely fair in a leveling sense. A level 80 character has no advantages over a level 1.
I don't see this as a good thing personally in terms of longtivity. Good for PvP community though. In SWTOR the only real diference is talents after 1.1.
TSW and AA are sandbox games, AA from the looks of it seems to be a little like WoW combat wise save for the combo system and it being a sandbox (With no major IP attacht) means that its more then likely to go at best the way of EvE.
AA is a sandbox/themepark hybrid, and from what I've learned, TSW is kind of like a themepark/adventure-game hybrid.
AA also appears to be Korean and seeing how AION went I am very wary (as interested as I am in AA), TSW is by FunCom.
Don't know all to much about TSW.
But as I said before if TOR and RIFT do not (In a year or so) have a good solid playing base of 1mil+ and 300k+ respectivly then the MMO genre is fucked IMO and no game will be able to ever again get over a million subs.
How do you figure? Just look at the legion of games that plummeted in subs before SWTOR and Rift came out...MMORPG genre is still trucking on.
I talked with a gaming buddy of mine about this, SWTOR has the backing of one of the largest gaming puplishers followed by being created by one of the greatest RPG developers followed by having one the largest IPs in the world in its name followed by being a solid game followed by being (compared to every MMO launch and even most MMOs currently) polished.
And while I am a glass half full type of guy I have to say the MMO genre would be worse off if SWTOR "failed". Because as someone who took AP Bussiness classes in High School you would be retarded to create an high budget MMO without large players like EA creating MMOs other companies would stop creating them thus we would be left with indie companies promising everything like they normally do and we would go into the MMO dark ages.
When it comes down to it,putting 'haters' and 'fanbois' aside..
I think we all really wanted this game to do well,it was so largely hyped and everyone is dying to get an MMO they can REALLY sink their teeth into,whens the last one where you actually COULD?.But once the curtain fell and we bit in,it yet again,fell short of a lot of our expectations.Some realised this early and became 'haters' to those who actually do like ToR and to those who maybe just didnt want to admit it or didnt realise right away that the game is just another flash in the pan.
I know I feel let down and am becoming ever more hesitant about future MMO's (GW2,AA,TSW, et al) will any of them ever live up to their hype? Im really beginning to lose hope that they actually will
No, none of them will live up to the hype. Nothing ever does, and when the hype goes on for years how can a game possibly live up to what we're manipulated into wanting it to be - and hype/advertising/call it what you will is manipulation. It's like Xmas, once you're past the age of 8 or whatever the best part of it is the anticipation - and that's what we're sold long before these games are even close to release.
Anyway, my point is you don't have to lose hope, you just have to manage your own expectations. None of those games will be what we think they're going to be, but that doesn't mean they won't be fun for what they are. And for as long as they're fun for.
True,I do try to pull in my personal hype reigns as best as possible..
I guess this one got me due to so much money that was put into it.I guess I thought it'd be something so much more than it actually is and I fell for it :
Dark, Im sorry to hear this turned out the way it did for you. What you said made a lot of good points. I would take contention with you about having to play extensivly to know if you like a game or not. It only took me 5-6 hours to know this wasn't the game for me. That has been true with every game I have ever played. To play a game hundreds of hours, it has to first and foremost "feel" natural.
I recall playing OFP for a night and saying to my friends, this will be the game I play. 6 years later I was still playing it. Just like when its succesor ARMA came out, after being a loyal fan of the series, it only took me a few hours to tell my group, we probably won't be playing this too much. And as a group, we didn't, it was clunky and had an ability delay in it that just didn't "feel" right. Some people are naturally canaries in the coal mine. It's not for any reason, it's just the way we are as a species.
There have been games that felt right and had little bells and whistles, but then their are games that have everything you want, only to find out they don't have that natural feel to play for extended time. SWTOR was that way for me real fast.
However, I am kinda reluctant to believe, because if they did not add it by now, why should they make it now?
Time?
SWTOR was in development for 5 n 1/2 years WoW, WAR and RIFT all around the same time frame.
TOR has done more with its development time then any other MMO in history...
I know its all opnion, but I don't agree, I mean take away VO (to me its not that big for a playing point, its nice, but I like substance, verse flash)....I would disagree and say that UO, EQ, DAoC, SWG, and even Vanguard all did more for their time/place, than TOR...From what I have seen.
I am not a big fan of the companions, so if VO and Companions are the basis of the arguement, then I can see how we don't agree.
Those three games advertise a different type of endgame. From eachother, and from WoW/Rift/TOR.
I don't know how true it'll turn out to be, but I don't think the problem is lack endgame content, so much as type of endgame content, or endgame content diversity. Which is to say, those game may not offer more content, but will hopefully appeal to players who want a different sort of endgame. Even if it is similarly light at release.
GW2 all in all has no end game, its PvP from what I can tell is a lot like SWTOR's is now (Anyone can do it and everyone is thrown in at level 10-50) with the exception of endgame WPvP for SWTOR, heavily casual in that it takes the same amount of time to get from 10-11 as it does 54-55. People will level find that there is less end game then even SWTOR and leave.
The difference is that in GW2's structured PvP, everyone, level 1 or 80 will have the EXACT same abilities and stats available to them. It is completely fair in a leveling sense. A level 80 character has no advantages over a level 1.
I don't see this as a good thing personally in terms of longtivity. Good for PvP community though. In SWTOR the only real diference is talents after 1.1.
Your opinion of course, and I would disagree. GW2's PvP is trying to be like an "eSport" kind of like how Starcraft is. Whether this will catch on or not, we'll have to see. And I also think another difference in GW2 will be that there is no "gear" difference in PvP, I think everyone is essentially "even," though don't quote me on this.
TSW and AA are sandbox games, AA from the looks of it seems to be a little like WoW combat wise save for the combo system and it being a sandbox (With no major IP attacht) means that its more then likely to go at best the way of EvE.
AA is a sandbox/themepark hybrid, and from what I've learned, TSW is kind of like a themepark/adventure-game hybrid.
AA also appears to be Korean and seeing how AION went I am very wary (as interested as I am in AA), TSW is by FunCom.
Yeah I'm wary of these two as well, moreso than GW2. Only because GW2 has more concrete information and demos out there.
Don't know all to much about TSW.
But as I said before if TOR and RIFT do not (In a year or so) have a good solid playing base of 1mil+ and 300k+ respectivly then the MMO genre is fucked IMO and no game will be able to ever again get over a million subs.
How do you figure? Just look at the legion of games that plummeted in subs before SWTOR and Rift came out...MMORPG genre is still trucking on.
I talked with a gaming buddy of mine about this, SWTOR has the backing of one of the largest gaming puplishers followed by being created by one of the greatest RPG developers followed by having one the largest IPs in the world in its name followed by being a solid game followed by being (compared to every MMO launch and even most MMOs currently) polished.
And while I am a glass half full type of guy I have to say the MMO genre would be worse off if SWTOR "failed". Because as someone who took AP Bussiness classes in High School you would be retarded to create an high budget MMO without large players like EA creating MMOs other companies would stop creating them thus we would be left with indie companies promising everything like they normally do and we would go into the MMO dark ages.
In Theory...
Well, as someone with an MBA (had to hehe ), I would say that you may be right or you may be wrong. It all depends on how in touch the investors are with the "product." They may look at a SWTOR failure as a sign that the MMORPG market is dying. Or they may look at it as a product that misjudged the market's needs and see opportunity in segmenting the market in a different way (different feature-set).
Also, bear in mind that the MMORPG industry is still making MAD money (because of WoW), so that's a general sign that the market is itself, healthy. Oh and one more thing...SWTOR already sold over 2 million copies from what I hear. So even if it fails to maintain subs, it still shows that lots of people are interested in playing MMORPGs. Another sign that the market is healthy. If it fails to maintain subs, I think it should be blamed on the product, not the market in general. If the market was dying, it wouldn't have sold so many boxes.
I know its all opnion, but I don't agree, I mean take away VO (to me its not that big for a playing point, its nice, but I like substance, verse flash)....I would disagree and say that UO, EQ, DAoC, SWG, and even Vanguard all did more for their time/place, than TOR...From what I have seen.
I am not a big fan of the companions, so if VO and Companions are the basis of the arguement, then I can see how we don't agree.
Player created content is not really content at all IMO.
Actual Content wise all of hte games you listed had very little save for EQ and DAoC.
SWTOR added in its time frame Full VO and a chose you're own story type of game. Things such as housing do not stack up against what TOR has IMO and I am not going to continue to sub because of things like that.
I am in the same situation as San and a couple others also. I have a lvl 30 char and a couple 15+ and I just can't bring myself to log in anymore. It all feels stale to me already, nothing that can keep me hooked. Oh where is this fresh new MMO we all need to revitalize our love for the genre?
I'm confused, when/where are nightmare mode Flashpoint/instances? We cleared/farmed the hardmodes but I have never seen an option for nightmare or otherwise.
I "think" raids might offer 3 options? But the standard 4 man instances do not from my experience. Hell, only a handfull of the current flashpoints even have a hardmode.
here is the thing I dont get, with a lot people in MMO's, once you max your character they all become dull after you run the dame raids over over/ not ove mmo out there doesnt have this issue except eve online.
Whay Swtor has though is this, alts are awesome and the ride to 50 is 10x better then the ride from any other game and I get to do it 8x.
If TOR with its 10 or so dungeons that have level 50 mode plus hard and nightmare mode with 2 raids and another dungeon coming with content patch AND world PvP that is getting fixed isn't enought to get some people who I will not name to say, "You know what maybe this game won't go the route of WAR." Then what makes those same people think that the 3 games I mention will hold a large portion of peoples interest?
A full answer to that is really a lot more complicated than I want to get into here or now, and there are other people who have been following each of those games a lot more closely than I have, who could answer better than I could, too. I'm not really big on following games that aren't out, yet.
For starters though, I highly doubt that the open world PvP of each game will be much like TOR's. You can see, they each have a different sort of spin on it, and from what I can tell, the devs seem more invested in that facet of the game than Bioware is. TSW is really big on the lore and faction aspect of pitting players against eachother. GW2 looks like it will excel in gameplay mechanics, using dynamic events and open grouping to bring players together. AA focuses more on sandbox elements and resources, attempting to get players to feel more invested in the gameworld.
In each game, these are core elements they seem to be focusing on, integrating into the foundation of what their games are all about, whereas in TOR, it seems much more like 'tacked on' instance based endgame. I could be wrong, but this is the impression I get. It doesn't matter how many instances TOR adds, as long as they're just not what some players want out of endgame.. and I'm not sure Ilum or Huttball will ever be substantial enough to make up for it.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
GW2 all in all has no end game, its PvP from what I can tell is a lot like SWTOR's is now (Anyone can do it and everyone is thrown in at level 10-50) with the exception of endgame WPvP for SWTOR, heavily casual in that it takes the same amount of time to get from 10-11 as it does 54-55. People will level find that there is less end game then even SWTOR and leave.
The difference is that in GW2's structured PvP, everyone, level 1 or 80 will have the EXACT same abilities and stats available to them. It is completely fair in a leveling sense. A level 80 character has no advantages over a level 1.
I don't see this as a good thing personally in terms of longtivity. Good for PvP community though. In SWTOR the only real diference is talents after 1.1.
Your opinion of course, and I would disagree. GW2's PvP is trying to be like an "eSport" kind of like how Starcraft is. Whether this will catch on or not, we'll have to see. And I also think another difference in GW2 will be that there is no "gear" difference in PvP, I think everyone is essentially "even," though don't quote me on this.
The same could more or less be said of SWTOR PvP when they cut out the level 50s, in Warzones the only difference between a level 10 and 49 is talent points.
TSW and AA are sandbox games, AA from the looks of it seems to be a little like WoW combat wise save for the combo system and it being a sandbox (With no major IP attacht) means that its more then likely to go at best the way of EvE.
AA is a sandbox/themepark hybrid, and from what I've learned, TSW is kind of like a themepark/adventure-game hybrid.
AA also appears to be Korean and seeing how AION went I am very wary (as interested as I am in AA), TSW is by FunCom.
Yeah I'm wary of these two as well, moreso than GW2. Only because GW2 has more concrete information and demos out there.
Agreed
Don't know all to much about TSW.
But as I said before if TOR and RIFT do not (In a year or so) have a good solid playing base of 1mil+ and 300k+ respectivly then the MMO genre is fucked IMO and no game will be able to ever again get over a million subs.
How do you figure? Just look at the legion of games that plummeted in subs before SWTOR and Rift came out...MMORPG genre is still trucking on.
I talked with a gaming buddy of mine about this, SWTOR has the backing of one of the largest gaming puplishers followed by being created by one of the greatest RPG developers followed by having one the largest IPs in the world in its name followed by being a solid game followed by being (compared to every MMO launch and even most MMOs currently) polished.
And while I am a glass half full type of guy I have to say the MMO genre would be worse off if SWTOR "failed". Because as someone who took AP Bussiness classes in High School you would be retarded to create an high budget MMO without large players like EA creating MMOs other companies would stop creating them thus we would be left with indie companies promising everything like they normally do and we would go into the MMO dark ages.
In Theory...
Well, as someone with an MBA (had to hehe ), I would say that you may be right or you may be wrong. It all depends on how in touch the investors are with the "product." They may look at a SWTOR failure as a sign that the MMORPG market is dying. Or they may look at it as a product that misjudged the market's needs and see opportunity in segmenting the market in a different way (different feature-set).
Also, bear in mind that the MMORPG industry is still making MAD money (because of WoW), so that's a general sign that the market is itself, healthy. Oh and one more thing...SWTOR already sold over 2 million copies from what I hear. So even if it fails to maintain subs, it still shows that lots of people are interested in playing MMORPGs. Another sign that the market is healthy. If it fails to maintain subs, I think it should be blamed on the product, not the market in general. If the market was dying, it wouldn't have sold so many boxes.
If SWTOR 'fails' then it will be the death of P2P MMOs I can almost promise you that. And that we'll see a rise of what I like to call "Quick buck" mmos like GW1 and D&DO. Little content with high profit margins.
I'm confused, when/where are nightmare mode Flashpoint/instances? We cleared/farmed the hardmodes but I have never seen an option for nightmare or otherwise.
I "think" raids might offer 3 options? But the standard 4 man instances do not from my experience. Hell, only a handfull of the current flashpoints even have a hardmode.
Nightmare is for operations only.
I'll agree with dark on the pvp however the rest I was expecting from the moment it was announced. I have plenty of things to do on my level 50. If your not into the whole gearingup/numbers thing then I guess you'd be disappointed however I always enjoy playing RPGs for the loot and numbers.
Comments
This game is not based off the Starwars movies. It's based off the KOTOR universe which is based in the SW universe but not canon. You don't hear talks about midichlorians do you?
When it comes down to it,putting 'haters' and 'fanbois' aside..
I think we all really wanted this game to do well,it was so largely hyped and everyone is dying to get an MMO they can REALLY sink their teeth into,whens the last one where you actually COULD?.But once the curtain fell and we bit in,it yet again,fell short of a lot of our expectations.Some realised this early and became 'haters' to those who actually do like ToR and to those who maybe just didnt want to admit it or didnt realise right away that the game is just another flash in the pan.
I know I feel let down and am becoming ever more hesitant about future MMO's (GW2,AA,TSW, et al) will any of them ever live up to their hype? Im really beginning to lose hope that they actually will
What I am hoping for is that Bioware was smart enough to already make all the future content, and will release it slowly over time. I hope they already have all the additional level 50 content, with all the voice acting just waiting to be patched into the game. I do not see how they would not have a huge chunk just waiting to be release. Hey, we all have out own little dreams
Yeah, I never got why they didn't make the capital cities the main hubs, Dromund kaas for imperials and coruscant for republic. It would have been much better in every way.
I disagree with just about everything you just said, but only time will tell which of us is right
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
TBH I am curious,
If TOR with its 10 or so dungeons that have level 50 mode plus hard and nightmare mode with 2 raids and another dungeon coming with content patch AND world PvP that is getting fixed isn't enought to get some people who I will not name to say, "You know what maybe this game won't go the route of WAR." Then what makes those same people think that the 3 games I mention will hold a large portion of peoples interest?
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
I agree with you that the basics are good, I too enjoy the story of my chars and levelling a lot. And I also agree, it would not be so difficult to change or add things to make it much better in terms of longevity. However, I am kinda reluctant to believe, because if they did not add it by now, why should they make it now? They had years and tons of money. And they have defended their decision always with "their better vision" against EVERY critique.
And still, they acted as if SWTOR was the first MMO ever, as if we never had seen things implemented better. Why did they not learn from these MMOs? Why did they make themselves blind to all things that worked well in other MMOs? I don't understand that. Is it arrogance? Or stupidity? I don't get it why they failed to copy the most working and succesful and simple elements from ANY other MMO.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Why are you listing instances that are nothing to do with the endgame in vanilla WoW ???? Think you missed the point of my post and went off on one on what you thought was said .
I'd agree though Vanilla WoW was far superior to StarWars ToR but in the initial month the endgame was pretty limited .The content did indeed keep coming and it may with ToR . I wish the content that kept coming had been upto the standard of those first two or three years .
Time?
SWTOR was in development for 5 n 1/2 years WoW, WAR and RIFT all around the same time frame.
TOR has done more with its development time then any other MMO in history...
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
No, none of them will live up to the hype. Nothing ever does, and when the hype goes on for years how can a game possibly live up to what we're manipulated into wanting it to be - and hype/advertising/call it what you will is manipulation. It's like Xmas, once you're past the age of 8 or whatever the best part of it is the anticipation - and that's what we're sold long before these games are even close to release.
Anyway, my point is you don't have to lose hope, you just have to manage your own expectations. None of those games will be what we think they're going to be, but that doesn't mean they won't be fun for what they are. And for as long as they're fun for.
Game lost it's appeal for me within the first weekend. Maybe i'm just burned out with MMO's, i dunno but the constant running around go kill 10 of these, get back, only to get send back where you came from to deliever something, it's just plain boring. And to the OP, i guess if you reach 50 and have nothing to do, i could pretty much understand how boring the game has become to you. Devs need to think outside the box, we've been playing these games for almost 10 years now, we need something new and not just the same old, same old only with a new paint on it.
How would you change it?
I've been thinking about how fed up I am with the kill x quests. The conclusion I have is it's not the kill x quests that's the problem but the whole combat system widely adapted in the genre. If fighting was fun then fighting is what you want to do. If there's a counter up in the corner then it shouldn't matter, because killing things would be fun. .. the fact is it isn't. I can only contribute that to a boring combat system.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
True,I do try to pull in my personal hype reigns as best as possible..
I guess this one got me due to so much money that was put into it.I guess I thought it'd be something so much more than it actually is and I fell for it :
Dark, Im sorry to hear this turned out the way it did for you. What you said made a lot of good points. I would take contention with you about having to play extensivly to know if you like a game or not. It only took me 5-6 hours to know this wasn't the game for me. That has been true with every game I have ever played. To play a game hundreds of hours, it has to first and foremost "feel" natural.
I recall playing OFP for a night and saying to my friends, this will be the game I play. 6 years later I was still playing it. Just like when its succesor ARMA came out, after being a loyal fan of the series, it only took me a few hours to tell my group, we probably won't be playing this too much. And as a group, we didn't, it was clunky and had an ability delay in it that just didn't "feel" right. Some people are naturally canaries in the coal mine. It's not for any reason, it's just the way we are as a species.
There have been games that felt right and had little bells and whistles, but then their are games that have everything you want, only to find out they don't have that natural feel to play for extended time. SWTOR was that way for me real fast.
I know its all opnion, but I don't agree, I mean take away VO (to me its not that big for a playing point, its nice, but I like substance, verse flash)....I would disagree and say that UO, EQ, DAoC, SWG, and even Vanguard all did more for their time/place, than TOR...From what I have seen.
I am not a big fan of the companions, so if VO and Companions are the basis of the arguement, then I can see how we don't agree.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Player created content is not really content at all IMO.
Actual Content wise all of hte games you listed had very little save for EQ and DAoC.
SWTOR added in its time frame Full VO and a chose you're own story type of game. Things such as housing do not stack up against what TOR has IMO and I am not going to continue to sub because of things like that.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
I have to agree with Dark Pony on all his points.
I am in the same situation as San and a couple others also. I have a lvl 30 char and a couple 15+ and I just can't bring myself to log in anymore. It all feels stale to me already, nothing that can keep me hooked. Oh where is this fresh new MMO we all need to revitalize our love for the genre?
No signature, I don't have a pen
I'm confused, when/where are nightmare mode Flashpoint/instances? We cleared/farmed the hardmodes but I have never seen an option for nightmare or otherwise.
I "think" raids might offer 3 options? But the standard 4 man instances do not from my experience. Hell, only a handfull of the current flashpoints even have a hardmode.
here is the thing I dont get, with a lot people in MMO's, once you max your character they all become dull after you run the dame raids over over/ not ove mmo out there doesnt have this issue except eve online.
Whay Swtor has though is this, alts are awesome and the ride to 50 is 10x better then the ride from any other game and I get to do it 8x.
A full answer to that is really a lot more complicated than I want to get into here or now, and there are other people who have been following each of those games a lot more closely than I have, who could answer better than I could, too. I'm not really big on following games that aren't out, yet.
For starters though, I highly doubt that the open world PvP of each game will be much like TOR's. You can see, they each have a different sort of spin on it, and from what I can tell, the devs seem more invested in that facet of the game than Bioware is. TSW is really big on the lore and faction aspect of pitting players against eachother. GW2 looks like it will excel in gameplay mechanics, using dynamic events and open grouping to bring players together. AA focuses more on sandbox elements and resources, attempting to get players to feel more invested in the gameworld.
In each game, these are core elements they seem to be focusing on, integrating into the foundation of what their games are all about, whereas in TOR, it seems much more like 'tacked on' instance based endgame. I could be wrong, but this is the impression I get. It doesn't matter how many instances TOR adds, as long as they're just not what some players want out of endgame.. and I'm not sure Ilum or Huttball will ever be substantial enough to make up for it.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
Nightmare is for operations only.
I'll agree with dark on the pvp however the rest I was expecting from the moment it was announced. I have plenty of things to do on my level 50. If your not into the whole gearingup/numbers thing then I guess you'd be disappointed however I always enjoy playing RPGs for the loot and numbers.