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Sadly SWTOR is losing its appeal too fast for me at level 50.

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  • NBlitzNBlitz Member Posts: 1,904

    I'm stunned, shocked, flabbergasted...Not Darth Pony! Anyone else shocked? I am, no sarcasm.

    Now that I'm recovering I'll go read the OP.

  • RizelStarRizelStar Member UncommonPosts: 2,773

    Hey Dark keep an eye on though they might fix and add somethings too it, least that's what I'm waiting for.

    Then there are some promising MMOs coming but don't get overhype(Which I'm sure you won't I think you dislike em already I don't know.)

     

    But your not the only one a lot of my friends are having the same feeling a lot have quit and some left but are waiting yet still unsub so no money wasted. 

     

     

    Also i must say it's good that your not beating around the bush your being "real" with everyone, because admittin something like that is hard to do so.

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • toddzetoddze Member UncommonPosts: 2,150

    I have gained a lot or respect for you dark pony, most fans would never admit what you have.

    Ill refrain from piling on by adding my opinions of tor, I just hope we all can find a true MMO that will have lasting appeal.

    Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
    Now Playing: N/A
    Worst MMO: FFXIV
    Favorite MMO: FFXI

  • DarkPonyDarkPony Member Posts: 5,566

    Originally posted by Techleo

    Sadly I have had the same experience with Swtor as Pony. Which is irritating as hell because I love the storyline and many aspects of the game. I actually love the crafting system. I love the companions. The problem is, there are to many features missing at this point to feel like the game is fleshed out. We really only have datacrons to drive me to explore. Well that and crafting. Thank god I rarely use my companion to gather. Try playing a crafter and doing all your own gathering. Gets pretty damned exciting to find the rarer nodes. 

    In the next year, which is generally the time I give all the games I play to polish, I hope to see many new features added. Dark Pony which features would you have added if you had the choice over the next year?

    - Scrap the fleets: make capitals actually the capitals.

    - Crafting incentives in the open world rather than just picking up the base, green materials when they happen to be in your way and the rest through commanding your companions.

    - Also make end game crafting more worthwhile and not tied into flashpoint schematic drops or bop schematics. As an armstech crafter who doesn't like raiding so much, endgame crafting as of now is non-existant.

    - More long term gameplay incentives other than tier herp derp gear: stuff to save for at 50. Like housing, other spaceships, sicker mounts, etc. Right now, most long term incentives are tied in to alternative, commendation currencies.

    - Stimulate world pvp; add world pvp quests or incentives to each world. Make killing players of your own level range worthwhile.

    - More intimate, immersive, roleplay stimulating cantina's and mechanics. The Prancing Pony in Lotro springs to mind. Making music, sitting on chairs, etc, etc.

    - Optimization of the engine: shorter loading times, less resource intensive, better performance.

    Special wish beyond the current content:

    - Add a significant space expansion with free roaming, mining, pvp, multiplayer spaceships, etc.

     

  • GibboniciGibbonici Member UncommonPosts: 472

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Originally posted by DerWotan

    I could play the "we" told you so card here but I wont. Just saying sad for you that it didn't meet your expectations hopefully you'll find another game which you like in the long run.

    I still think a lot of the criticism / flak which Swtor has been getting was either premature, not based on facts or actual experience and inspired by personal bias though.

    There has been very little worthwhile criticism from people who had actually played it for a long time / made it to level 50 in beta. The little of it that actually did surface was subsequently drowned in the onslaught of unmerrited hate.

    The points in the above impression are based on my own experiences though,and I don't regret a minute of playing it or a penny spend on it. Because like I said, I did have a great first month.

     

    Dude, you're doing it wrong. When you unsub from a game you have to bend your whole will to trashing it on the internet. It's in the EULA or something.

     

    Seriously though, I fully expect to be in your position by the end of next month. As I've been saying all along, if an MMO entertains longer than most single player games then it's been worth it, and I don't believe there'll ever be an MMO that holds my attention for more than a couple of months. I've just lost that sense of wonder of playing in a huge online world with loads of other people. It's all a bit passe now, and I think most of us MMO vets are in that position whether we recognise it or not.

     

    For now, though, I'm loving every minute of my time in SWTOR and I'd recommend it to anyone, before and after I quit.

  • DrunkWolfDrunkWolf Member RarePosts: 1,645

    To me this game is turning into anther AoC ( except aoc had a ton of open world pvp while leveling). But what im saying is the game is way to easy to make max level and if a game is going to be this easy to level up then there better be alot of stuff for max level people to do.

    in AoC it was sappose to be sieges those were broken people waited around a few months for them to get fixed, they never did people quit.

    star wars its sappose to be ilum, that is totally broken and if it doesnt get fixed to the point were its at least fun even if you dont have the daily then people will quit.

    at least AoC had the open world pvp to keep us pvpers busy, star wars doesnt even have that i think the pvp servers will die alot faster.

  • TardcoreTardcore Member Posts: 2,325

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    - Final words:

    My outlook has shifted a lot; I still think its a very good game but not so much in the long run for me personally. Since the things which are important to me: world pvp, alternative open world content and immersive aspects are either lacking or disappointing.

    Some of these things might successfully be addressed soon though, rekindling my fire for this game, but as for now;

     

    /sad pony

    Now does my complete 180 on this game once I actually got a hands on look make a little more sense?

     

    I felt and still feel I could have one hell of a good time just plowing through all the class quests, but to me the most important factor is what I'll be doing AFTER level cap. I immediately saw that I would be stuck doing the repetitive thempark fun ride, just like the last several themparks I played, and just decided not to put myself through that headache once more.

     

    image

    "Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  • sanosukexsanosukex Member Posts: 1,836

    Originally posted by Jakdstripper

    i can't even get myself to reach level 50.....:O....it's kind of shocker for me. i've started like 6 or 7 chars but nothing grabed me. haven't gotten anything past level 25. nothing feels fresh or interesting. it's like i've played all this, 100 times before, in way more interesting games...

    i dunno maybe it's just mmo burnout or just not that much into the Star WArs universe but this game just doesn't have any excitement factor to it. i still log in every once in a wile to do a few BGs and the odd quests but i just can't seem to get into it for more then an hour or so. so many rails, so little freedom, so repetitive, so shallow, so brainless, so easy, so boring....

     

    meh, maybe it's just me. doubt i'm going to resub to this game for long.

    sadly I have fallen into this rut as well and by far fastest this has happened in any AAA MMO release i have play to date going all the way back to Ultima online. I have 8 alts now and highest one is in there late 20s. For me it's the stupid amounts of just walking the large empty hallways  getting from point A to B and thie big one.. the classes .. Honestly they are so bland boring it does'nt seem like they put any real throught into them and just re-used everything from past games. The lalent trees could of been the boring classes saving grace yet they are even worse than any talent tree system I have ever seen in a big title like this. Each tree has a just a couple new abilities and everything else is your standard garbage increase skill by 3% stuff. 

    There's also very little reason to try hybrids in this game cause of the stances, gas cyclanders, ammo types.. usually one tree is dedicated to a certain stance or ammo type making hybrids even more gimped... anyway thats my huge dissapointment and really is whats keeping me from really getting into and enjoying the game.

  • MMOGamer71MMOGamer71 Member UncommonPosts: 1,984

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    That's right.

    After anticipating and defending this game very eagerly for a year or more (you are welcome to check my posting history) and after making it to max level in a very Swtor-heavy first month I am sad to say I am kind of disappointed in its long term value.

    Despite its potential and the very worthwhile first month I don't think I will play it for much longer. The main things which prevent me from having fun with it for a longer time are personal but maybe also general problems:

    - Poorly thought out and implemented world pvp;

    Things might change for the better when 1.1 gets released but as of now it is simply beyond disappointing;

    Clicking a couple of enemy tanks a day to complete your daily and weekly world pvp quests; killing players actually is detrimental to completing that objective so both factions simply "exchange" world pvp objectives in a friendly atmosphere. Very ironic since these quests are pretty much the sole incentives to seek out enemy players in the open world. ... Seek out enemy players to "click on tanks with", that is.

    Questing areas don't overlap much; on most worlds factions are playing in the same open map but in very seperate areas; No Southshore - Tarren Mill random pvp raids to stumble into.

    The peeps at Blizzard were smart enough to actually put factions in eachother's ways, (both zone and quest wise), and throughout the leveling range bar the first zones. This is sadly lacking in Swtor. During leveling your battles with either empire of republic will be mostly restricted to warzones and npc enemies out in the world. If you do encounter an enemy player out in the world, please give him directions in /say because he's probably lost.

    World pvp kills, as of now, don't even get registered or acknowledged, let alone reward valor or tokens.

    Logically all this means that even the Outlaw's Den on Tatooine is as dead as a door nail.

    I might stick around for 1.1 though, to see to what extent things will change in this regard but all in all it seems that all world pvp content was added as an afterthought. Much like crafting in WAR or AoC.

    - Fragmented game "world":

    Even though the worlds are big, open and richly detailed. And even though world <-> personal instance transitions are completely seamless, traveling between worlds or stations means staring at a long loading screen each time; so long that it breaks my attention, immersion and possibly other -ions too.

    - Uninspired design;

    Making relatively compact space stations the main hub for each faction was a very, very bad call in my opinion; it has been said before by others; these kind of artificial "shopping mall like" environments function pretty well as hubs but feel very artifical and unimmersive. Also they are lag heavy with 200+ players in your direct vicinity at prime time.

    I think that the fleet cantina music (at least on empire side) will eventually inspire people to choke small animals and maybe even family members, which really is a shame.

    - Cookie cutter themepark formula;

    Swtor is going the well trodden path of carrot-driven gameplay a little too much in my opinion; even the exploring content (datacrons and matrix cubes / shards) are based on improvement / progress driven incentives. PvP, PvE, dailies, exploring, space-on-rails; its all about gearing up and improving your stats on a regular basis.

    This cunning treadmill has proven to be one of the main pillars of success for "long term gaming" in general but sadly it is a little too apparent in SWTOR. Also because of the ...

    - Lack of gameplay alternatives;

    At max level it's either grinding the same old warzones (mostly Huttball), doing hard mode fp's, spend your 10 minutes on Ilum for quest completion each day and if you like some extra grind: doing level 50 dailies on Belsavis and Illum for "daily commendations".

    Since I am not much of an instance crawler, the things I can do out in the open world, like world pvp, harvesting, fishing, to give a few examples, are crucial.

    Sadly Swtor doesn't tap into that so much; the two main time sinks for players at max level are warzones and flashpoints; the worlds are mostly leveling content and don't play much of a role at all at level 50. So yeah, at 50 you'll spend most your time in either instances or in a shopping mall.

    IF world pvp on Ilum post 1.1. turns out to be very fun and engaging even after people did their daily, that might be a saving grace in my eyes. I'm very curious how it will pan out.

    - Final words:

    My outlook has shifted a lot; I still think its a very good game but not so much in the long run for me personally. Since the things which are important to me: world pvp, alternative open world content and immersive aspects are either lacking or disappointing.

    Some of these things might successfully be addressed soon though, rekindling my fire for this game, but as for now;

     

    /sad pony

     

     

     



    Not to beat a dead ........errr sad horse to death, but I agree.

     

    /signed

  • dreamer05dreamer05 Member UncommonPosts: 679

    I always giggle when people blast through an MMO at ridiculous speed and then wonder why they're getting tired of it.  Get a hobby, pick up a book, go outside.  A part time job maybe?  People who spend 60 hours a week playing an MMO are experiencing something called 'burning out'.  Take it a little slow, enjoy the game. 

     

    Now that said, that was a generalized comment for all MMO players.  As for SWTOR well.... I played at least 3 different times in beta, at launch, and recently, really wanting to like it and found myself absolutely bored to death so I'm not really shocked by people at max level being bored.  All of your reasons are very good and valid and the end game pvp problem you stated is why I didn't pre order or buy my own copy for that matter.

    image

    "God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."

  • OBK1OBK1 Member Posts: 637

    I have pretty much the same feelings as the OP, difference being I'm a pretty casual player. I think I will keep my sub until I have  made it through all 8 stories and then see what has been added. But it is too much on rails, I need a sandbox game as a number 2 game. Thinking of trying Xsyon, is it possible to play that game casually?

  • MMOGamer71MMOGamer71 Member UncommonPosts: 1,984

    Originally posted by dreamer05

    I always giggle when people blast through an MMO at ridiculous speed and then wonder why they're getting tired of it.  Get a hobby, pick up a book, go outside.  A part time job maybe?  People who spend 60 hours a week playing an MMO are experiencing something called 'burning out'.  Take it a little slow, enjoy the game.

    I always laugh when someone ASSumes and has no idea of what people do in real life and attack with the classic "get a job"  or the "go outside" line.

     

    Truth be told OP and other's have made contructive posts unlike yours.

  • AthcearAthcear Member Posts: 420

    I'm having plenty of fun with TOR, and I think a lot of it comes from taking my time.  I don't even have a max level character yet.  I'm hardly bored before I haven't gone through everything.  There's still a lot for me to do in this game.  There's whatever's waiting for me at max level, there's the other faction, there's other classes.  I can even respec DPS if I get tired of healing.

    Important facts:
    1. Free to Play games are poorly made.
    2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals.
    3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE.
    4. Community is more important than you think.

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member RarePosts: 4,419

    Originally posted by WikingDK

    The same story always. Every game have it. People rush to max level, and then complai. The game is a few months old, and off course the game have to devolope over time. 

    Why is you allready lvl 50? maybe enjoy the game instead. Take some days off sometimes.

    I have played since launch, and I just dinged 20 today. 

     

    That doesn't solve the innate problem with the game.  You will eventually hit 50 and if you have the time and desire now to play, why should you slow down?  That's a problem with the game after you hit the level cap.

     

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856

    i agree world pvp would only be not cheated if there was ranking ,without ranking you can pretty much let your self killed and kill the other to make sure both come back to do all this crap till both side have their stuff.not exactly rewarding experience but i  bet they ll correct this fast.ya world pvp stuff isnt there oh everything is ready ,you go to outlaws den buig warning letter pvp zone etc ,or in world pvp area you are warned you enter a pvp area you expect someting?mmm wait for it its gona happen?you ve done the whole area and at the end ? nada?i met more pvp player at the bottom of nar shadaa bonus area then in tatooine

    but then i think both faction are closer .so in the end ? they will have to add content so that the north faction need to invade the south faction to do x y z stuff same for the south they ll need to add content so that they need to invade the north to finish x,y ,stuff and all of this would end at the culmination in a free for all in outlaws den but for now unless it is a specific well hidden quest i havent seen an inkling of this ,but since bonus unlock at later level maybe it is the same for this

  • BloodyVikingBloodyViking Member UncommonPosts: 132

    You stuck in there a lot longer than I did.

    The biggest failiure with SW:TOR is to create a virtual world environment for people to socialize, with minigames or even decent PvP at max level.

    It felt much like playing through a KOTOR3+WoW mishmash and Biowares inexperience in creating a true MMO really was apparent in the design.

    It's often a hard realization to make when you really wanted to like a game (much like how I felt about Rift), but it becomes an undeniable fact when you find yourself logging in, staring at the screen for a minute and then just quit the game because you already started feeling depressed about it. Thats when you need to hit the "Cancel Subscription" button.

    Will SW:TOR ever improve and remove the worst flaws? Probably, but I'm not sure they can do it fast enough to keep the majority of subscriptions. Age of Conan and Anarchy Online are great examples of games being turned around and reworked into something great. However, that takes time. And most MMO's never really recover from a flawed start.

    I don't see SW:TOR dying anytime soon (unless another company steps up to buy the rights and LucasArt wants to put more money in their pockets, then que SWG-ending) but I think a bad retention rate is very hurtfull for the bottomline here considering the amount of money being spent to create the game.

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member RarePosts: 4,419

    SWTOR is a great game to level in.  Beyond that it's very shallow and wasn't ready for release in todays market.

  • toddzetoddze Member UncommonPosts: 2,150

    Originally posted by dreamer05

    I always giggle when people blast through an MMO at ridiculous speed and then wonder why they're getting tired of it.  Get a hobby, pick up a book, go outside.  A part time job maybe?  People who spend 60 hours a week playing an MMO are experiencing something called 'burning out'.  Take it a little slow, enjoy the game. 

     

    Dang, brutal, see how fanboys quickly through pervious fans under the bus.

    Dark Pony let me be the first to welcome you to the REAL dark side. image

    Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
    Now Playing: N/A
    Worst MMO: FFXIV
    Favorite MMO: FFXI

  • melton80melton80 Member Posts: 54

     Sadly this is how games are since WoW, games are all about instant gratification nowadays and if someone can't get max level in a month the game is somehow considered crap, but on the other hand the game ends up being crap cause the same people that rushed to end-game say there is not enough end-game for them, so it is a lose lose when it comes to these kinda players. Back when i played EQ getting half a level or even a level in a day was an accomplishment, but now we get these new generation of gamers that want everything to be soloable, easy, and fast to level. It is the WoW generation that has ruined MMOs with their wanting games to be just as easy as WoW (which is extremely easy to play) and instant end-game gratification, not to mention the ability to solo all content, cause if it is too hard it needs to be nerfed.

  • BlackdefBlackdef Member UncommonPosts: 55

    Originally posted by melton80

     Sadly this is how games are since WoW, games are all about instant gratification nowadays and if someone can't get max level in a month the game is somehow considered crap, but on the other hand the game ends up being crap cause the same people that rushed to end-game say there is not enough end-game for them, so it is a lose lose when it comes to these kinda players. Back when i played EQ getting half a level or even a level in a day was an accomplishment, but now we get these new generation of gamers that want everything to be soloable, easy, and fast to level. It is the WoW generation that has ruined MMOs with their wanting games to be just as easy as WoW (which is extremely easy to play) and instant end-game gratification, not to mention the ability to solo all content, cause if it is too hard it needs to be nerfed.

    Nail On The Head, Remember DAOC and mini Dings?  you get half a lvl in 3 days without play 24 hrs and you felt like you won the lotto after 45, Most posters and MMOers of today or raised by breast milk cry babies

  • SnikzSnikz Member UncommonPosts: 120

    Originally posted by Blackdef

     

    Originally posted by melton80

     Sadly this is how games are since WoW, games are all about instant gratification nowadays and if someone can't get max level in a month the game is somehow considered crap, but on the other hand the game ends up being crap cause the same people that rushed to end-game say there is not enough end-game for them, so it is a lose lose when it comes to these kinda players. Back when i played EQ getting half a level or even a level in a day was an accomplishment, but now we get these new generation of gamers that want everything to be soloable, easy, and fast to level. It is the WoW generation that has ruined MMOs with their wanting games to be just as easy as WoW (which is extremely easy to play) and instant end-game gratification, not to mention the ability to solo all content, cause if it is too hard it needs to be nerfed.

    Nail On The Head, Remember DAOC and mini Dings?  you get half a lvl in 3 days without play 24 hrs and you felt like you won the lotto after 45, Most posters and MMOers of today or raised by breast milk cry babies

     +1 this..

     

    That was the good old leveling days, where it really ment something :)

  • NBlitzNBlitz Member Posts: 1,904

    - Poorly thought out and implemented world pvp;


    There's a reason I'm a carebear. I have never experienced PvP in an MMO like in the story veterans like to tell. I simply detest PvP when there's PvE involved.


    One or the other suffers. Which other MMO has managed to strike a balance between the two?


     


    - Fragmented game "world";


    One of my main beefs with the game. Weren't they paying attention to other MMOs out there? 


     


    - Uninspired design;


    I've used that word before to describe TOR. From the biggest things which you're having to deal with on a daily basis to the littlest things which they seem to have overlooked. Where did they leave their talented folk?


     


    - Cookie cutter themepark formula;


    "This cunning treadmill has proven to be one of the main pillars of success for "long term gaming" in general but sadly it is a little too apparent in SWTOR."


    How many millions of people have already "been there and done that"? 


    If this game isn't a blatant attempt at moneygrabbing then I don't know what else is.


    They used a checklist to build the game and no love went into it.


    Let me ask you this: do you believe any love was poured into making this game? Why do you believe so?


     


    "I still think its a very good game but not so much in the long run for me personally."


    To me an MMO should be something you pick up and can get lost in its virtual world. Not dropped after a few months only.


     


    "Some of these things might successfully be addressed soon though, rekindling my fire for this game, but as for now;"


    The problems I had with the game and the problems I see people having with the game are design choices and I don't see how it's possible for BW to turn it around. From the engine choice to gameplay choices to aesthetic designs and more.


     


     


    "/sad pony"


    There there. image

  • DarkPonyDarkPony Member Posts: 5,566

    Originally posted by toddze

    Originally posted by dreamer05

    I always giggle when people blast through an MMO at ridiculous speed and then wonder why they're getting tired of it.  Get a hobby, pick up a book, go outside.  A part time job maybe?  People who spend 60 hours a week playing an MMO are experiencing something called 'burning out'.  Take it a little slow, enjoy the game. 

     

    Dang, brutal, see how fanboys quickly through pervious fans under the bus.

    Dark Pony let me be the first to welcome you to the REAL dark side. image

    Hehe, I'm not much of a "hater" though if that's what you mean. Like others reasoned; this game can in fact be turned around for a great deal. There's vast potential to be uncovered if they address a few crucial points. Not only by additional development but also simply shift around some mechanics here and there.

    Even relatively simple things like adding endgame crafting incentives to the worlds rather than bop and flashpoint related only, making world pvp kills meaningful and adding shared questing objectives on each world, putting the pvp quest box in the middle of the cantina, etc., etc.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182

    Originally posted by toddze

    Originally posted by dreamer05

    I always giggle when people blast through an MMO at ridiculous speed and then wonder why they're getting tired of it.  Get a hobby, pick up a book, go outside.  A part time job maybe?  People who spend 60 hours a week playing an MMO are experiencing something called 'burning out'.  Take it a little slow, enjoy the game. 

     

    Dang, brutal, see how fanboys quickly through pervious fans under the bus.

    Dark Pony let me be the first to welcome you to the REAL dark side. image

    DId you read the second half of that post?

    "Now that said, that was a generalized comment for all MMO players.  As for SWTOR well.... I played at least 3 different times in beta, at launch, and recently, really wanting to like it and found myself absolutely bored to death so I'm not really shocked by people at max level being bored.  All of your reasons are very good and valid and the end game pvp problem you stated is why I didn't pre order or buy my own copy for that matter."

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • BloodyVikingBloodyViking Member UncommonPosts: 132

    While it's true that todays major MMO's have been dumbed down a lot compared to earlier titles, it is also important to point out that the gameplay itself has to be engaging for a more grindy/longer leveleing curve to work.

    Meaning that you need a better combat system that is more engaging than the 1-2-3-4 buttonmashing galore we have now. I would advice to look at the combat systems from Asheron's Call 1, Dungeons & Dragons Online, Neocron and Age of Conan. When you make combat fun, the grind isnt so much of a chore any more.

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