Size is great if there is a ton to explore and it provides choice and depth imo.
On Taris alone, my Jedi went to the crash site of the Endor Spire, tracked rakghouls, the history of Taris, and an Imperial Agent. Even got the story behind the city the underground folks were traveling to in the Original KOTOR. Not to mention a number of various sidequests.
The drones keep bad mouthing the game, and I keep running all over the damn place checking out new shit each day. Like I said in the OP, the game is huge, and there is plenty to keep folks busy. It is pretty cool to hop a taxi once you have unlocked service at opposite ends of the map. It really gives ya a sense of how much effort it takes to get thru it all.
Moaky i agree that stuff is cool but does that make it big ? Every MMO since what wow and eq2 had unlockable waypoints, ( griffons etc ) most that covered more distance than the distances in TOR. Not only that these other games had multiple areas in which you could level for the same range.
Vanguard probably takes that cake with that but it was true with WoW as well.. when you make a statement like you did in the OP it causes some of us to post some additional information here to point out that... well there are bigger games out there... much bigger...
I just don't think size is in the top 10 things that tor is good at... I don't know.. but glad you are enjoying it !
Sounds like you are really getting into the story and lore, that is awesome and deepens any MMO experience for sure..
I already told ya in the OP, this game is freaking huge if planets get bigger as ya go, cause I am on Taris now with my Jedi, and the second world with my Sith, and as pointed out, they are as big/bigger than anything from EQ up until at least Velious.
I would say Taris rates very well with Plane of Fire if someone has done any gaming in the PoP expansion. Probably a bit bigger. I used to kite at the tables with my nec, as that used to be some of the best AA exp around. Heck it is probably more like the ocean that you ride the boat across to get to Kunark. If you ever fell off the boat, and had to swim(yep I am one of those idiots), you understand what I am saying.
I have not spent a lot of time in any other MMO, although I did play several of them at launch. DAoC, VG:SoH, WoW, EQ2, and CoH among them. TOR is the first MMO, since EQ in 01, that has totally got me hooked. Thus EQ is the only thing I can base a comparison with when it comes to world size.
I can understand someone not liking something....when folks lie, like about this game being small, it is time to set the record straight.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Size is great if there is a ton to explore and it provides choice and depth imo.
On Taris alone, my Jedi went to the crash site of the Endor Spire, tracked rakghouls, the history of Taris, and an Imperial Agent. Even got the story behind the city the underground folks were traveling to in the Original KOTOR. Not to mention a number of various sidequests.
The drones keep bad mouthing the game, and I keep running all over the damn place checking out new shit each day. Like I said in the OP, the game is huge, and there is plenty to keep folks busy. It is pretty cool to hop a taxi once you have unlocked service at opposite ends of the map. It really gives ya a sense of how much effort it takes to get thru it all.
Moaky i agree that stuff is cool but does that make it big ? Every MMO since what wow and eq2 had unlockable waypoints, ( griffons etc ) most that covered more distance than the distances in TOR. Not only that these other games had multiple areas in which you could level for the same range.
Vanguard probably takes that cake with that but it was true with WoW as well.. when you make a statement like you did in the OP it causes some of us to post some additional information here to point out that... well there are bigger games out there... much bigger...
I just don't think size is in the top 10 things that tor is good at... I don't know.. but glad you are enjoying it !
Sounds like you are really getting into the story and lore, that is awesome and deepens any MMO experience for sure..
I already told ya in the OP, this game is freaking huge if planets get bigger as ya go, cause I am on Taris now with my Jedi, and the second world with my Sith, and as pointed out, they are as big/bigger than anything from EQ up until at least Velious.
I would say Taris rates very well with Plane of Fire if someone has done any gaming in the PoP expansion. Probably a bit bigger. I used to kite at the tables with my nec, as that used to be some of the best AA exp around. Heck it is probably more like the ocean that you ride the boat across to get to Kunark. If you ever fell off the boat, and had to swim(yep I am one of those idiots), you understand what I am saying.
I have not spent a lot of time in any other MMO, although I did play several of them at launch. DAoC, VG:SoH, WoW, EQ2, and CoH among them. TOR is the first MMO, since EQ in 01, that has totally got me hooked. Thus EQ is the only thing I can base a comparison with when it comes to world size.
I can understand someone not liking something....when folks lie, like about this game being small, it is time to set the record straight.
Well if your reference is eq1 i dont have any reference ( didnt play eq1 ) you are probably right.. But i think where we get ourselves twisted about a little is with the LIe part..
Its all POV right ? yours is eq1, mine are as follows...
So my reference games are this.
LOTRO - i would say TOR is bigger than LOTRO at release but very close
SWG - SWG bigger ( although one can argue empty space lol )
Vanguard - no contest vanguard is the biggest game i have ever seen
WoW - much bigger than TOR ( from what i have seen up to level 30 )
RIFT - TOr probably bigger, RIFT seemed small to me, little choice in leveling path much like TOR but TOR with more diversity i think
thakns for clarifying your POV, hopefully i did the same !
The maps just keep getting bigger as you progress from planet to planet. Taris is freaking huge.
Looking back on EQ, I just dont see the same size zones, especially if you are looking at vanilla EQ, or simply Kunark and Velious added in. Zones like The one Karana, The Oasis, Greater Faydark, the one leading into Kaladim/Kelethin, Burning Woods, etc are no greater areas to cover than Taris or Dromund Kaas, and the game is supposed to get bigger as we keep progressing? Damn.
We aren't talking huge empy parking lots either ala SWG.....but hand crafted areas with PVE camps.
I havent seen a city yet like Freeport though, with the exception of Corusant....which puts FP to shame. I have no clue what future cities will offer, but I prefer the twisting alleys vs the wide open camps several seem to have. Dromund Kaas is close to being GTG though.
As I didnt play WoW past the first 2 weeks, I have nothing to really compare the two. I do know that looking back on EQ though, it is appearing as if it takes at least the first couple of expansions to give as much gaming area as TOR has in it from the get go.
Friggen love this game.
TOR fits in like 1/2 of a continent of WoW at release... lol
Although split up in differing ways (some planets very large, some areas in large cities with differing levels etc) Swtor's total play area is vastly larger than all of Wow's release world. Just because you can't wrap your head around adding up all the worlds together doesn't mean it is smaller. It simply is a different sort of game. You are visiting sections of a planet and not the entire planet.
If you choose not to suspend disbelief then you will likely never get into the game. Most of the complaints by players here are because they have become used to how another game created thier world. The stress created in your own mind is due to the inability to adapt to something new. I for one can easily think of Wow as nothing more than small areas surrounded by mountains you can't get over with narrow paths leading into the next zone. This does appeal to me either.
For all it's shortcomings Swtor still works for many people. In light of a new release game their are huge playscapes that I revisit often due to dailies with friends and story arcs. The world is shaping up nicely and there are some very cool destinations thus far. I'll also leave my sandbox love for other games to play later.
Feel free to give your opinion but please do not spout outright lies.
Size is great if there is a ton to explore and it provides choice and depth imo.
On Taris alone, my Jedi went to the crash site of the Endor Spire, tracked rakghouls, the history of Taris, and an Imperial Agent. Even got the story behind the city the underground folks were traveling to in the Original KOTOR. Not to mention a number of various sidequests.
The drones keep bad mouthing the game, and I keep running all over the damn place checking out new shit each day. Like I said in the OP, the game is huge, and there is plenty to keep folks busy. It is pretty cool to hop a taxi once you have unlocked service at opposite ends of the map. It really gives ya a sense of how much effort it takes to get thru it all.
Moaky i agree that stuff is cool but does that make it big ? Every MMO since what wow and eq2 had unlockable waypoints, ( griffons etc ) most that covered more distance than the distances in TOR. Not only that these other games had multiple areas in which you could level for the same range.
Vanguard probably takes that cake with that but it was true with WoW as well.. when you make a statement like you did in the OP it causes some of us to post some additional information here to point out that... well there are bigger games out there... much bigger...
I just don't think size is in the top 10 things that tor is good at... I don't know.. but glad you are enjoying it !
Sounds like you are really getting into the story and lore, that is awesome and deepens any MMO experience for sure..
I already told ya in the OP, this game is freaking huge if planets get bigger as ya go, cause I am on Taris now with my Jedi, and the second world with my Sith, and as pointed out, they are as big/bigger than anything from EQ up until at least Velious.
I would say Taris rates very well with Plane of Fire if someone has done any gaming in the PoP expansion. Probably a bit bigger. I used to kite at the tables with my nec, as that used to be some of the best AA exp around. Heck it is probably more like the ocean that you ride the boat across to get to Kunark. If you ever fell off the boat, and had to swim(yep I am one of those idiots), you understand what I am saying.
I have not spent a lot of time in any other MMO, although I did play several of them at launch. DAoC, VG:SoH, WoW, EQ2, and CoH among them. TOR is the first MMO, since EQ in 01, that has totally got me hooked. Thus EQ is the only thing I can base a comparison with when it comes to world size.
I can understand someone not liking something....when folks lie, like about this game being small, it is time to set the record straight.
Well if your reference is eq1 i dont have any reference ( didnt play eq1 ) you are probably right.. But i think where we get ourselves twisted about a little is with the LIe part..
Its all POV right ? yours is eq1, mine are as follows...
So my reference games are this.
LOTRO - i would say TOR is bigger than LOTRO at release but very close
SWG - SWG bigger ( although one can argue empty space lol )
Vanguard - no contest vanguard is the biggest game i have ever seen
WoW - much bigger than TOR ( from what i have seen up to level 30 )
RIFT - TOr probably bigger, RIFT seemed small to me, little choice in leveling path much like TOR but TOR with more diversity i think
thakns for clarifying your POV, hopefully i did the same !
Not probably because SWTOR is infact bigger. Rift is like comparing an ant to elephant in terms of the world size. The best way to look at the full map is to click on your fast travel icon and it shows you the entire map because in norma view you would only see the zone you are in. There are no loading screens and you travel seemless to other regions on the same map.
You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty -- Mahatma Gandhi
Size is great if there is a ton to explore and it provides choice and depth imo.
On Taris alone, my Jedi went to the crash site of the Endor Spire, tracked rakghouls, the history of Taris, and an Imperial Agent. Even got the story behind the city the underground folks were traveling to in the Original KOTOR. Not to mention a number of various sidequests.
The drones keep bad mouthing the game, and I keep running all over the damn place checking out new shit each day. Like I said in the OP, the game is huge, and there is plenty to keep folks busy. It is pretty cool to hop a taxi once you have unlocked service at opposite ends of the map. It really gives ya a sense of how much effort it takes to get thru it all.
Moaky i agree that stuff is cool but does that make it big ? Every MMO since what wow and eq2 had unlockable waypoints, ( griffons etc ) most that covered more distance than the distances in TOR. Not only that these other games had multiple areas in which you could level for the same range.
Vanguard probably takes that cake with that but it was true with WoW as well.. when you make a statement like you did in the OP it causes some of us to post some additional information here to point out that... well there are bigger games out there... much bigger...
I just don't think size is in the top 10 things that tor is good at... I don't know.. but glad you are enjoying it !
Sounds like you are really getting into the story and lore, that is awesome and deepens any MMO experience for sure..
I already told ya in the OP, this game is freaking huge if planets get bigger as ya go, cause I am on Taris now with my Jedi, and the second world with my Sith, and as pointed out, they are as big/bigger than anything from EQ up until at least Velious.
I would say Taris rates very well with Plane of Fire if someone has done any gaming in the PoP expansion. Probably a bit bigger. I used to kite at the tables with my nec, as that used to be some of the best AA exp around. Heck it is probably more like the ocean that you ride the boat across to get to Kunark. If you ever fell off the boat, and had to swim(yep I am one of those idiots), you understand what I am saying.
I have not spent a lot of time in any other MMO, although I did play several of them at launch. DAoC, VG:SoH, WoW, EQ2, and CoH among them. TOR is the first MMO, since EQ in 01, that has totally got me hooked. Thus EQ is the only thing I can base a comparison with when it comes to world size.
I can understand someone not liking something....when folks lie, like about this game being small, it is time to set the record straight.
Well if your reference is eq1 i dont have any reference ( didnt play eq1 ) you are probably right.. But i think where we get ourselves twisted about a little is with the LIe part..
Its all POV right ? yours is eq1, mine are as follows...
So my reference games are this.
LOTRO - i would say TOR is bigger than LOTRO at release but very close
SWG - SWG bigger ( although one can argue empty space lol )
Vanguard - no contest vanguard is the biggest game i have ever seen
WoW - much bigger than TOR ( from what i have seen up to level 30 )
RIFT - TOr probably bigger, RIFT seemed small to me, little choice in leveling path much like TOR but TOR with more diversity i think
thakns for clarifying your POV, hopefully i did the same !
Not probably because SWTOR is infact bigger. Rift is like comparing an ant to elephant in terms of the world size. The best way to look at the full map is to click on your fast travel icon and it shows you the entire map because in norma view you would only see the zone you are in. There are no loading screens and you travel seemless to other regions on the same map.
Just like Hoth. To travel from side of Hoth to the other in it's entirely on personal speeder takes some serious time. The planet is huge! I especially like the fact that many below ground (inside buildings/ships ect) are part of the world too. There is actually far more open "dungeon" areas per area than even Wow and vastly more than Rift (that game world is uber small).
Just like Hoth. To travel from side of Hoth to the other in it's entirely on personal speeder takes some serious time. The planet is huge! I especially like the fact that many below ground (inside buildings/ships ect) are part of the world too. There is actually far more open "dungeon" areas per area than even Wow and vastly more than Rift (that game world is uber small).
I agree. hoth is huge and makes Alderaan, taris and even Tatooine look tiny in comaprison. I was surprised at how beautiful it looks and so many open dugneons to explore. I even stumbled upon some caves which hold lore unlocks with some very exciting trivia.
You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty -- Mahatma Gandhi
Size is great if there is a ton to explore and it provides choice and depth imo.
On Taris alone, my Jedi went to the crash site of the Endor Spire, tracked rakghouls, the history of Taris, and an Imperial Agent. Even got the story behind the city the underground folks were traveling to in the Original KOTOR. Not to mention a number of various sidequests.
The drones keep bad mouthing the game, and I keep running all over the damn place checking out new shit each day. Like I said in the OP, the game is huge, and there is plenty to keep folks busy. It is pretty cool to hop a taxi once you have unlocked service at opposite ends of the map. It really gives ya a sense of how much effort it takes to get thru it all.
Moaky i agree that stuff is cool but does that make it big ? Every MMO since what wow and eq2 had unlockable waypoints, ( griffons etc ) most that covered more distance than the distances in TOR. Not only that these other games had multiple areas in which you could level for the same range.
Vanguard probably takes that cake with that but it was true with WoW as well.. when you make a statement like you did in the OP it causes some of us to post some additional information here to point out that... well there are bigger games out there... much bigger...
I just don't think size is in the top 10 things that tor is good at... I don't know.. but glad you are enjoying it !
Sounds like you are really getting into the story and lore, that is awesome and deepens any MMO experience for sure..
I already told ya in the OP, this game is freaking huge if planets get bigger as ya go, cause I am on Taris now with my Jedi, and the second world with my Sith, and as pointed out, they are as big/bigger than anything from EQ up until at least Velious.
I would say Taris rates very well with Plane of Fire if someone has done any gaming in the PoP expansion. Probably a bit bigger. I used to kite at the tables with my nec, as that used to be some of the best AA exp around. Heck it is probably more like the ocean that you ride the boat across to get to Kunark. If you ever fell off the boat, and had to swim(yep I am one of those idiots), you understand what I am saying.
I have not spent a lot of time in any other MMO, although I did play several of them at launch. DAoC, VG:SoH, WoW, EQ2, and CoH among them. TOR is the first MMO, since EQ in 01, that has totally got me hooked. Thus EQ is the only thing I can base a comparison with when it comes to world size.
I can understand someone not liking something....when folks lie, like about this game being small, it is time to set the record straight.
Well if your reference is eq1 i dont have any reference ( didnt play eq1 ) you are probably right.. But i think where we get ourselves twisted about a little is with the LIe part..
Its all POV right ? yours is eq1, mine are as follows...
So my reference games are this.
LOTRO - i would say TOR is bigger than LOTRO at release but very close
SWG - SWG bigger ( although one can argue empty space lol )
Vanguard - no contest vanguard is the biggest game i have ever seen
WoW - much bigger than TOR ( from what i have seen up to level 30 )
RIFT - TOr probably bigger, RIFT seemed small to me, little choice in leveling path much like TOR but TOR with more diversity i think
thakns for clarifying your POV, hopefully i did the same !
Not probably because SWTOR is infact bigger. Rift is like comparing an ant to elephant in terms of the world size. The best way to look at the full map is to click on your fast travel icon and it shows you the entire map because in norma view you would only see the zone you are in. There are no loading screens and you travel seemless to other regions on the same map.
Just like Hoth. To travel from side of Hoth to the other in it's entirely on personal speeder takes some serious time. The planet is huge! I especially like the fact that many below ground (inside buildings/ships ect) are part of the world too. There is actually far more open "dungeon" areas per area than even Wow and vastly more than Rift (that game world is uber small).
But again, you have one leveling path... size with depth and complexity and choice is key,, thats what makes size fun, TOR doesnt have choice or diversity at all..
And i completely disagree that it is bigger than wow at release, I mean i remember the night elf area, human starting area, dwarf walk up to stormwind... Ironforge, tram betwene cities,,,
Compare that to one space station hub ? from 2 starting areas even in the low levels > i mean its not even close.
All maps in SWTOR i had been in so far, were simple corridors with different background paintings - there is no difference between Dromund Kaas or Coruscant for instance, same corridor-like areas surrounded by impassable terrain. There is no way that a corridor-like designed world is larger than any open world. It might take longer to run from A to B in SWTOR since the tunnels are narrow and arranged in snake-like manner, but if you can see past that, the world begin to look extremely small -- so small, that it resembles a lobby-game.
Large worlds (only played a couple days so only seen up to tatooine) with 2-4 quests per quest hub and no real reason to explore is kind of boring really. Large worlds with an overall lack of reason for it being so big should be left to mob grinding games. Asherons Call is a great example of this. Other than some really cool looking areas the biggest reason to explore beyond "random stumbling into something cool moments" was to find a secluded area to grind. In TOR it is irritating (at least on tat) to do a couple quests then travel a couple min to the next couple of quests hub.
Large worlds (only played a couple days so only seen up to tatooine) with 2-4 quests per quest hub and no real reason to explore is kind of boring really. Large worlds with an overall lack of reason for it being so big should be left to mob grinding games. Asherons Call is a great example of this. Other than some really cool looking areas the biggest reason to explore beyond "random stumbling into something cool moments" was to find a secluded area to grind. In TOR it is irritating (at least on tat) to do a couple quests then travel a couple min to the next couple of quests hub.
AC now theres a real game......... Especially before the Buff Bots appeared...... Just used to love the dungeon portasls off of the main landscape game well done shame AC2 never lived up to expectations.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Just like Hoth. To travel from side of Hoth to the other in it's entirely on personal speeder takes some serious time. The planet is huge! I especially like the fact that many below ground (inside buildings/ships ect) are part of the world too. There is actually far more open "dungeon" areas per area than even Wow and vastly more than Rift (that game world is uber small).
But again, you have one leveling path... size with depth and complexity and choice is key,, thats what makes size fun, TOR doesnt have choice or diversity at all..
And i completely disagree that it is bigger than wow at release, I mean i remember the night elf area, human starting area, dwarf walk up to stormwind... Ironforge, tram betwene cities,,,
Compare that to one space station hub ? from 2 starting areas even in the low levels > i mean its not even close.
What has leveling path got anything to do with exploration? i explore a lot every now and then when i take break from leveling. There is so much to unlock in codex and it is only possible by exploring. When i follow a stroyline i want to enjoy the story and the ride no matter wherever it takes me. Exploration is something i do without any restrictions out of my storyline.
You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty -- Mahatma Gandhi
All maps in SWTOR i had been in so far, were simple corridors with different background paintings - there is no difference between Dromund Kaas or Coruscant for instance, same corridor-like areas surrounded by impassable terrain. There is no way that a corridor-like designed world is larger than any open world. It might take longer to run from A to B in SWTOR since the tunnels are narrow and arranged in snake-like manner, but if you can see past that, the world begin to look extremely small -- so small, that it resembles a lobby-game.
From Tatooine on it opens up. Even in Tatooine, the starting area is corridored; in fact the change from narrow corridors to vast open landscape is so noticeable it's obviously a design decision.
Some of the worlds from then on are also very large - so large, in fact, that I wouldn't be surprised if you can fit the whole of Kalimdor on one of them. So I think it'd be unfair to say SWTOR's maps are small or that they resemble a lobby game (not the ones after level 25, at least).
The thing that bugs me personally is that the game, to me, seems to have trouble utilizing this size. I feel no sense of mystery at all - even with the datacrons to find, I seldom get a "Oooh, I wonder what's there" itch I often feel in other MMOs - even though I really like the artwork on some of these planets. In SWTOR, it feels like size has more to do with the number of quest hubs and mob packs than a planet's mystique.
Another thing is, whenever you get into a corridored bit of land, or even try to get to an objective on an open bit of map, it feels like there are just too many packs of mobs around that you have to fight. It just feels inconsequential to me. Every corridor I had to get through or area of objective I've had to clear felt like a mini-grind. Almost no encounter on these was memorable in itself, it was all just something you have to do to go on with the thing that's memorable - your story.
So, despite the fact that the maps in SWTOR are indeed large and many of them even vast and open, it does get claustrophobic sometimes.
For a Themepark MMO, and I use that term losely..., this game is quite big. However as a sandbox world, which I know it is not, the "world" is tiny.
And the point is not to have every inch of the world packed with content, the point of big sandbox world is to try to immerse you in a world and in a real world the empty spaces are vast.
But any way you look at it, when I see the Tattoine zone and I know I can run from one side to another in 15-20 minutes it is just an immersion killer for me. Tattoine sand dunes were massive, even in the movies. But each to their own I guess...
All maps in SWTOR i had been in so far, were simple corridors with different background paintings - there is no difference between Dromund Kaas or Coruscant for instance, same corridor-like areas surrounded by impassable terrain. There is no way that a corridor-like designed world is larger than any open world. It might take longer to run from A to B in SWTOR since the tunnels are narrow and arranged in snake-like manner, but if you can see past that, the world begin to look extremely small -- so small, that it resembles a lobby-game.
From Tatooine on it opens up. Even in Tatooine, the starting area is corridored; in fact the change from narrow corridors to vast open landscape is so noticeable it's obviously a design decision.
Some of the worlds from then on are also very large - so large, in fact, that I wouldn't be surprised if you can fit the whole of Kalimdor on one of them. So I think it'd be unfair to say SWTOR's maps are small or that they resemble a lobby game (not the ones after level 25, at least).
The game resembles a lobby game, not because of the size, but rather because on the extreme focus on 1-6 player content. It really got a Diablosque feeling to the game rather than a Massive Multiplayer game.
For example, I did this quest where I apparently solved a puzzle that hasnt been solved in years. Yet I saw several groups of people solving the exact same quest. The whole game is designed really around you, and your companions/friends, and the world around you really seems disconnected. Which is strange for an MMO but natural for a CO-OP game like Diablo.
The worlds are getting bigger as you go, but they really are not 'opening up', atleast not yet, I am on Taris also, and it is still very railed....Also, their is a lot of unpassible/filler area, to keep you on the rail...Where as if you look at old EQ, since that is what was used, their wasn't as much unpassible/filler land.
I also wish they would of spent more money on design, it seems most of the caves and such I go into have the exact same design. I haven't seen a lot of care/thought put into mob placement so far, I mean thats not what they are going for, but I am getting a little bit of the Rift feel to it, where things were hugely done for speed sake.
I am hoping to see this opening up still, but at level 36, I am beginning to wonder if the fan boys have got me hook/line/sinker on that.
I will still get my money out of it, either way, just was hoping for more, being that it was maybe the largest funded mmo to date, and had the largest opening also....I don't think more pride in content, over VO is too much to ask....Hopefully they will start putting some of the money into putting in the 'not at release' content, and with atleast the short-term being a hit, maybe show a little more craftsmanship to content, VO is nice, but content and quality of it is where you keep people imo.
Size is great if there is a ton to explore and it provides choice and depth imo.
On Taris alone, my Jedi went to the crash site of the Endor Spire, tracked rakghouls, the history of Taris, and an Imperial Agent. Even got the story behind the city the underground folks were traveling to in the Original KOTOR. Not to mention a number of various sidequests.
The drones keep bad mouthing the game, and I keep running all over the damn place checking out new shit each day. Like I said in the OP, the game is huge, and there is plenty to keep folks busy. It is pretty cool to hop a taxi once you have unlocked service at opposite ends of the map. It really gives ya a sense of how much effort it takes to get thru it all.
Moaky i agree that stuff is cool but does that make it big ? Every MMO since what wow and eq2 had unlockable waypoints, ( griffons etc ) most that covered more distance than the distances in TOR. Not only that these other games had multiple areas in which you could level for the same range.
Vanguard probably takes that cake with that but it was true with WoW as well.. when you make a statement like you did in the OP it causes some of us to post some additional information here to point out that... well there are bigger games out there... much bigger...
I just don't think size is in the top 10 things that tor is good at... I don't know.. but glad you are enjoying it !
Sounds like you are really getting into the story and lore, that is awesome and deepens any MMO experience for sure..
I already told ya in the OP, this game is freaking huge if planets get bigger as ya go, cause I am on Taris now with my Jedi, and the second world with my Sith, and as pointed out, they are as big/bigger than anything from EQ up until at least Velious.
I would say Taris rates very well with Plane of Fire if someone has done any gaming in the PoP expansion. Probably a bit bigger. I used to kite at the tables with my nec, as that used to be some of the best AA exp around. Heck it is probably more like the ocean that you ride the boat across to get to Kunark. If you ever fell off the boat, and had to swim(yep I am one of those idiots), you understand what I am saying.
I have not spent a lot of time in any other MMO, although I did play several of them at launch. DAoC, VG:SoH, WoW, EQ2, and CoH among them. TOR is the first MMO, since EQ in 01, that has totally got me hooked. Thus EQ is the only thing I can base a comparison with when it comes to world size.
I can understand someone not liking something....when folks lie, like about this game being small, it is time to set the record straight.
Well if your reference is eq1 i dont have any reference ( didnt play eq1 ) you are probably right.. But i think where we get ourselves twisted about a little is with the LIe part..
Its all POV right ? yours is eq1, mine are as follows...
So my reference games are this.
LOTRO - i would say TOR is bigger than LOTRO at release but very close
SWG - SWG bigger ( although one can argue empty space lol )
Vanguard - no contest vanguard is the biggest game i have ever seen
WoW - much bigger than TOR ( from what i have seen up to level 30 )
RIFT - TOr probably bigger, RIFT seemed small to me, little choice in leveling path much like TOR but TOR with more diversity i think
thakns for clarifying your POV, hopefully i did the same !
Not probably because SWTOR is infact bigger. Rift is like comparing an ant to elephant in terms of the world size. The best way to look at the full map is to click on your fast travel icon and it shows you the entire map because in norma view you would only see the zone you are in. There are no loading screens and you travel seemless to other regions on the same map.
Just like Hoth. To travel from side of Hoth to the other in it's entirely on personal speeder takes some serious time. The planet is huge! I especially like the fact that many below ground (inside buildings/ships ect) are part of the world too. There is actually far more open "dungeon" areas per area than even Wow and vastly more than Rift (that game world is uber small).
But again, you have one leveling path... size with depth and complexity and choice is key,, thats what makes size fun, TOR doesnt have choice or diversity at all..
And i completely disagree that it is bigger than wow at release, I mean i remember the night elf area, human starting area, dwarf walk up to stormwind... Ironforge, tram betwene cities,,,
Compare that to one space station hub ? from 2 starting areas even in the low levels > i mean its not even close.
Ah, but it doesn't have one levelling path. You can choose how to react to quests and stories as they are given. This is a real innovation; you have choices. Not just choices in those quest conversation choices (we are given a real motivation in that) but in dark side/light side; choice of companion and how it influences affection; choice to level a few with flash points or pvp or space combat or exploration/holocrons. People who are saying there are no choices or depth are simply not playing the same game that I am.
This games has a lot of STORY choice and this is what SWTOR excels in and this is what is ace about it. We don't just passively accept quests we have 2-3 choices (at each conversation segment of each and every quest) about how we shall react and complete that quest (and this actually affects quest outcomes). C'mon, you gotta accept that this game's innovation as a themepark is to give more meaning and choices in how we complete quests and how those quests affect the sense of story. Even if you hate this game (fair enough) you have got to concede this point.
But does it give sandbox style choice? No, of course not. It is not a sandbox game. I will happily play a good sandbox game and not complain that it doesn't have the kind of choices that SWTOR has because I wanna compare like with like.
A lot of genuine constructive criticism on these forums. But people complaining about SWTOR for not being sandbox enough is just crazy. And people saying there are no choices with levelling, well that is just - really - it is just not fucking true.
For a themepark there are PLENTY of choices, far more choice than my experience with vanilla wow, EQ2, RIFT, AOC, COH/COV, LOTRO and so on.
Just like Hoth. To travel from side of Hoth to the other in it's entirely on personal speeder takes some serious time. The planet is huge! I especially like the fact that many below ground (inside buildings/ships ect) are part of the world too. There is actually far more open "dungeon" areas per area than even Wow and vastly more than Rift (that game world is uber small).
But again, you have one leveling path... size with depth and complexity and choice is key,, thats what makes size fun, TOR doesnt have choice or diversity at all..
And i completely disagree that it is bigger than wow at release, I mean i remember the night elf area, human starting area, dwarf walk up to stormwind... Ironforge, tram betwene cities,,,
Compare that to one space station hub ? from 2 starting areas even in the low levels > i mean its not even close.
What has leveling path got anything to do with exploration? i explore a lot every now and then when i take break from leveling. There is so much to unlock in codex and it is only possible by exploring. When i follow a stroyline i want to enjoy the story and the ride no matter wherever it takes me. Exploration is something i do without any restrictions out of my storyline.
I agree, there are also many "dynamic" quests that start when you enter some areas outside of the story paths. You have seen that droid that just pops out of the sky, displays a holo screen and you are automatically hooked up to some multi-stage quests. These are quests you are not getting from NPCs and there are many of them if you go out and explore the world.
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I already told ya in the OP, this game is freaking huge if planets get bigger as ya go, cause I am on Taris now with my Jedi, and the second world with my Sith, and as pointed out, they are as big/bigger than anything from EQ up until at least Velious.
I would say Taris rates very well with Plane of Fire if someone has done any gaming in the PoP expansion. Probably a bit bigger. I used to kite at the tables with my nec, as that used to be some of the best AA exp around. Heck it is probably more like the ocean that you ride the boat across to get to Kunark. If you ever fell off the boat, and had to swim(yep I am one of those idiots), you understand what I am saying.
I have not spent a lot of time in any other MMO, although I did play several of them at launch. DAoC, VG:SoH, WoW, EQ2, and CoH among them. TOR is the first MMO, since EQ in 01, that has totally got me hooked. Thus EQ is the only thing I can base a comparison with when it comes to world size.
I can understand someone not liking something....when folks lie, like about this game being small, it is time to set the record straight.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Well if your reference is eq1 i dont have any reference ( didnt play eq1 ) you are probably right.. But i think where we get ourselves twisted about a little is with the LIe part..
Its all POV right ? yours is eq1, mine are as follows...
So my reference games are this.
LOTRO - i would say TOR is bigger than LOTRO at release but very close
SWG - SWG bigger ( although one can argue empty space lol )
Vanguard - no contest vanguard is the biggest game i have ever seen
WoW - much bigger than TOR ( from what i have seen up to level 30 )
RIFT - TOr probably bigger, RIFT seemed small to me, little choice in leveling path much like TOR but TOR with more diversity i think
thakns for clarifying your POV, hopefully i did the same !
Unless you can settle on way how to measure world size, the discussion is matter of purely subjective opinions.
Although split up in differing ways (some planets very large, some areas in large cities with differing levels etc) Swtor's total play area is vastly larger than all of Wow's release world. Just because you can't wrap your head around adding up all the worlds together doesn't mean it is smaller. It simply is a different sort of game. You are visiting sections of a planet and not the entire planet.
If you choose not to suspend disbelief then you will likely never get into the game. Most of the complaints by players here are because they have become used to how another game created thier world. The stress created in your own mind is due to the inability to adapt to something new. I for one can easily think of Wow as nothing more than small areas surrounded by mountains you can't get over with narrow paths leading into the next zone. This does appeal to me either.
For all it's shortcomings Swtor still works for many people. In light of a new release game their are huge playscapes that I revisit often due to dailies with friends and story arcs. The world is shaping up nicely and there are some very cool destinations thus far. I'll also leave my sandbox love for other games to play later.
Feel free to give your opinion but please do not spout outright lies.
You stay sassy!
Not probably because SWTOR is infact bigger. Rift is like comparing an ant to elephant in terms of the world size. The best way to look at the full map is to click on your fast travel icon and it shows you the entire map because in norma view you would only see the zone you are in. There are no loading screens and you travel seemless to other regions on the same map.
You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty -- Mahatma Gandhi
Just like Hoth. To travel from side of Hoth to the other in it's entirely on personal speeder takes some serious time. The planet is huge! I especially like the fact that many below ground (inside buildings/ships ect) are part of the world too. There is actually far more open "dungeon" areas per area than even Wow and vastly more than Rift (that game world is uber small).
You stay sassy!
I agree. hoth is huge and makes Alderaan, taris and even Tatooine look tiny in comaprison. I was surprised at how beautiful it looks and so many open dugneons to explore. I even stumbled upon some caves which hold lore unlocks with some very exciting trivia.
You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty -- Mahatma Gandhi
But again, you have one leveling path... size with depth and complexity and choice is key,, thats what makes size fun, TOR doesnt have choice or diversity at all..
And i completely disagree that it is bigger than wow at release, I mean i remember the night elf area, human starting area, dwarf walk up to stormwind... Ironforge, tram betwene cities,,,
Compare that to one space station hub ? from 2 starting areas even in the low levels > i mean its not even close.
All maps in SWTOR i had been in so far, were simple corridors with different background paintings - there is no difference between Dromund Kaas or Coruscant for instance, same corridor-like areas surrounded by impassable terrain. There is no way that a corridor-like designed world is larger than any open world. It might take longer to run from A to B in SWTOR since the tunnels are narrow and arranged in snake-like manner, but if you can see past that, the world begin to look extremely small -- so small, that it resembles a lobby-game.
REALITY CHECK
Large worlds (only played a couple days so only seen up to tatooine) with 2-4 quests per quest hub and no real reason to explore is kind of boring really. Large worlds with an overall lack of reason for it being so big should be left to mob grinding games. Asherons Call is a great example of this. Other than some really cool looking areas the biggest reason to explore beyond "random stumbling into something cool moments" was to find a secluded area to grind. In TOR it is irritating (at least on tat) to do a couple quests then travel a couple min to the next couple of quests hub.
AC now theres a real game......... Especially before the Buff Bots appeared...... Just used to love the dungeon portasls off of the main landscape game well done shame AC2 never lived up to expectations.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
What has leveling path got anything to do with exploration? i explore a lot every now and then when i take break from leveling. There is so much to unlock in codex and it is only possible by exploring. When i follow a stroyline i want to enjoy the story and the ride no matter wherever it takes me. Exploration is something i do without any restrictions out of my storyline.
You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty -- Mahatma Gandhi
From Tatooine on it opens up. Even in Tatooine, the starting area is corridored; in fact the change from narrow corridors to vast open landscape is so noticeable it's obviously a design decision.
Some of the worlds from then on are also very large - so large, in fact, that I wouldn't be surprised if you can fit the whole of Kalimdor on one of them. So I think it'd be unfair to say SWTOR's maps are small or that they resemble a lobby game (not the ones after level 25, at least).
The thing that bugs me personally is that the game, to me, seems to have trouble utilizing this size. I feel no sense of mystery at all - even with the datacrons to find, I seldom get a "Oooh, I wonder what's there" itch I often feel in other MMOs - even though I really like the artwork on some of these planets. In SWTOR, it feels like size has more to do with the number of quest hubs and mob packs than a planet's mystique.
Another thing is, whenever you get into a corridored bit of land, or even try to get to an objective on an open bit of map, it feels like there are just too many packs of mobs around that you have to fight. It just feels inconsequential to me. Every corridor I had to get through or area of objective I've had to clear felt like a mini-grind. Almost no encounter on these was memorable in itself, it was all just something you have to do to go on with the thing that's memorable - your story.
So, despite the fact that the maps in SWTOR are indeed large and many of them even vast and open, it does get claustrophobic sometimes.
For a Themepark MMO, and I use that term losely..., this game is quite big. However as a sandbox world, which I know it is not, the "world" is tiny.
And the point is not to have every inch of the world packed with content, the point of big sandbox world is to try to immerse you in a world and in a real world the empty spaces are vast.
But any way you look at it, when I see the Tattoine zone and I know I can run from one side to another in 15-20 minutes it is just an immersion killer for me. Tattoine sand dunes were massive, even in the movies. But each to their own I guess...
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The game resembles a lobby game, not because of the size, but rather because on the extreme focus on 1-6 player content. It really got a Diablosque feeling to the game rather than a Massive Multiplayer game.
For example, I did this quest where I apparently solved a puzzle that hasnt been solved in years. Yet I saw several groups of people solving the exact same quest. The whole game is designed really around you, and your companions/friends, and the world around you really seems disconnected. Which is strange for an MMO but natural for a CO-OP game like Diablo.
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The worlds are getting bigger as you go, but they really are not 'opening up', atleast not yet, I am on Taris also, and it is still very railed....Also, their is a lot of unpassible/filler area, to keep you on the rail...Where as if you look at old EQ, since that is what was used, their wasn't as much unpassible/filler land.
I also wish they would of spent more money on design, it seems most of the caves and such I go into have the exact same design. I haven't seen a lot of care/thought put into mob placement so far, I mean thats not what they are going for, but I am getting a little bit of the Rift feel to it, where things were hugely done for speed sake.
I am hoping to see this opening up still, but at level 36, I am beginning to wonder if the fan boys have got me hook/line/sinker on that.
I will still get my money out of it, either way, just was hoping for more, being that it was maybe the largest funded mmo to date, and had the largest opening also....I don't think more pride in content, over VO is too much to ask....Hopefully they will start putting some of the money into putting in the 'not at release' content, and with atleast the short-term being a hit, maybe show a little more craftsmanship to content, VO is nice, but content and quality of it is where you keep people imo.
Ah, so the pavement of 100m is actually longer if 20 people walk on it.
I think you are up to something really big...
Ah, but it doesn't have one levelling path. You can choose how to react to quests and stories as they are given. This is a real innovation; you have choices. Not just choices in those quest conversation choices (we are given a real motivation in that) but in dark side/light side; choice of companion and how it influences affection; choice to level a few with flash points or pvp or space combat or exploration/holocrons. People who are saying there are no choices or depth are simply not playing the same game that I am.
This games has a lot of STORY choice and this is what SWTOR excels in and this is what is ace about it. We don't just passively accept quests we have 2-3 choices (at each conversation segment of each and every quest) about how we shall react and complete that quest (and this actually affects quest outcomes). C'mon, you gotta accept that this game's innovation as a themepark is to give more meaning and choices in how we complete quests and how those quests affect the sense of story. Even if you hate this game (fair enough) you have got to concede this point.
But does it give sandbox style choice? No, of course not. It is not a sandbox game. I will happily play a good sandbox game and not complain that it doesn't have the kind of choices that SWTOR has because I wanna compare like with like.
A lot of genuine constructive criticism on these forums. But people complaining about SWTOR for not being sandbox enough is just crazy. And people saying there are no choices with levelling, well that is just - really - it is just not fucking true.
For a themepark there are PLENTY of choices, far more choice than my experience with vanilla wow, EQ2, RIFT, AOC, COH/COV, LOTRO and so on.
Regards
Melmoth
I agree, there are also many "dynamic" quests that start when you enter some areas outside of the story paths. You have seen that droid that just pops out of the sky, displays a holo screen and you are automatically hooked up to some multi-stage quests. These are quests you are not getting from NPCs and there are many of them if you go out and explore the world.