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Why compare TOR vs. WOW? They are different
Gaborik
Member Posts: 251
I know this battle will go on until these two games close, but its getting annoying coming on these sites and seeing TOR is a WoW clone. I personally feel these two games are different and for those who enjoy WoW or TOR they should stop the bickering and go on with their game.
Here are my thoughts as to why TOR is NOT WoW
1. TOR is story driven, I have played WoW and have multiple 85 but I couldnt tell you anything about the story. I know there is WoW lore and and WoW story but its not a main part of the game. I enjoy games like LOTRO and to some degree Age of Conan where there is more to playing then just getting to max level.
2.This one is up to the player, some people like WoW graphic styles some like TOR graphic styles, why keep going on and on about it. I like TOR graphics better then WoW, I dont think WoW graphics suck they fit that game nicely. The point is the graphics are different so I think we can put that one to bed.
3.WoW is "gear score" driven, I have seen to many times some new 85 finally gets his gear score up to where he can do a heroic dungeon and this is what he gets. Dude your GS is 340 and you have two peices of PVP gear on you cant run with me, new guy says I just got to 85 how am I supposed to get better gear then? They try to kick the guy sometimes there were a few others that understood this guy just waited 10 min in que, i could careless what his gear score is and let him stay. It will be nice not having a game where people are running their 15th 85 through an instance bitching at the "noob" for not keeping up. People say this will happen with time, I have played LOTRO since BETA and feel that game has the best community of any MMO. If your a "noob" and join a group most people will help you out and not kick you out because its your 1st run. I hope TOR will be on par wtih LOTRO in the community
4.WoW has been out for 7 years! TOR still has not been released. How can you compare?????
These games have a simularity like all other MMO's and that is they are MMO's. This post isnt about which game is better, its about how these two games are different. If you dont like TOR or WoW why waste your time bashing when you could be playing a game you enjoy.
Comments
In the end SWTOR is the same as WoW
People will make something similar to gearscore for SWTOR and it will end up being gearscore driven, as you call it. Its inevitable.
Not at all....and not really possible, considering the UI is unmoddable. Hell you can't even resize the damn thing. Bioware has stated time ans again that they have no intention of allowing UI mods.
OP, people ALWAYS compare EVERY game to WoW here. They compared friggin' Darkfall to WoW.
And if it's a themepark game, then it is automatically called a "wow clone", beause they all think that wow was the first game of it's kind, or have forgotten the games that came before it.
WoW is a good frame of reference for most people, and TOR is not significantly different that comparisons to WoW do not apply.
Odds are, most people are going to understand something about TOR better, when compared to something in WoW, because they likely have seen it in WoW.
Gearscore isnt just a mod though, its an idea.
Just because there isnt a mod that will tell you doesnt mean the idea behind it wont come to swtor. Hell when I played WoW on my server no one used the mod they used websites that used the wow api to read your armory. If SWTOR has an armory equivalent then thats simply what will have here.
If they dont then folks will just inspect you. Any time where gear is the deciding factor on how good your character is instead of player skill then you will simply be judged by your characters gear. Granted wow players took this to an insane extreme... but at the same time when a large portion of the player base is retarded and cant even dress themselves with out assistance you almost have to pick over geared puggers to have a chance.
IMO devs need to stop focusing on gear as the sole method to judge your characters advancement and improvement, but thats just me.
it is not only TOR , ever since WoW came out back in 2004 and every new MMO game were compared with it , the reason of that is WoW brought a huge impact in world of MMO gaming .. ask yourself a question , what were the active MMO's back at the times when WoW came out ? I remember EvE and UO , maybe EQ I . WoW brought a lot of new play contents and features which greatly impressed and attracted a lot of players , it was 1 of it is kind back at that times , more like the 1st rated song/movie at top 10 list so everyone were comparing anything coming new to it .
I personally couldn't fit myself into WoW , I tried it 2 times didn't like it , the game flet more cartoonish to me so I kep playing EvE from 2005 till 07 when I got hooked with LOTR .
Even now TOR , with what it have now I can see people will be leaving it 6-8 months after relaese , we have 2 big names coming in 2012 , we have GW 2 and Arch Age , am sure with GW 2 going FTP it will have an impact on TOR .. check the numbers of sub's on TOR 1 month after release and later when GW 2 is out .
And btw I don't think WoW will last till end of 2012 .
Well, people have been judging people based on their gear forever...wow didn't start it, just took it to extremes. However, it pays to remember that in SWTOR, good gear can come from more sources than just raid / operation drops....a good set of custom (orange slotted) gear can be modded out to be just as good as the dropped stuff.
Due to this, I think anyone with a bit of ambition can probably have decent gear. I personally will be going the mod route....it worked great for me in beta, and I won't look like a clone in a clown suit.
I doubt also that there will be an "armory", due to Bioware's desire to avoid such abuse.
Yes, they have different names. Other than that TOR is pretty much a carbon copy of WoW on PURPOSE! EA isn't here to make you happy, they're here to turn a buck and which MMO turns the most bucks? Why WoW of course, so why wouldn't they copy it line for line?
If you really don't think that gear scores and the other elitist bullshit won't worm it's way into this game, then you're sadly mistaken sir. Any game at all that bases its end game off of gear progession has that kind of mentality UNTIL it starts losing population, at which point you can get a noob into pretty much any raid just because people need the bodies.
This, and like I said: There will be something similar to it.
If I recall correctly gearscore wasnt that common thing before the halfway to the end of TBC, so it took roughly 2 years before it started spreading in wow.
Having said that, there might not be anything like this in SWTOR to begin with, but the idea will carry on, and if its not within the game, someone will make up something outside the game.
It is inevitable for MMORPG's as long as they have gear upgrades.
EDIT: And let me add, gear upgrades are pretty goddamn needed if the game has any endgame content, because when you reach the max level, just doing daily stuff wont keep you satisfied, and that leads to the longevity of game dropping down. EA doesnt want this.
=There will be "raids" and gear progression.
^
This
WoW was the first MMO ever made !!!
/sarc
If you don't like a game don't play it, and quit running to MMORPG.com to trash it.
ummmmmm........no.
You obviously know nothing about the game, so why embarass yourself posting about it?
No! No different. Only different in your mind.
Tor's a current gen MMORPG due to the ideas and "template" it started from.
It has every few innovations(bringing some things from other games a step forward.) but that's has been said about games like Rift,Lotro, Aoc, Aion, and other games out there. Yet they don't feel entirely refreshing after playing WoW,EQ, and any other themeparks before that, because those games still have gear grind, mainly for endgame, no scaling once your high level and come back to for example a starting zone you could knock a enemy out in one hit, which is good because they aren't skilled based any way, and the list goes on.
Any way like others who believe their favorite MMORPGS are truely unique in gameplay I.E Rift for a very good example, expect it to have similarities to WoW and other games, but keep in mind that it's still a good current gen MMORPG andy way so you shouldn't have any worries or concerns.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I lol'd. Good luck with that.
I love how its ok for people to still play WOW after more then 7 years of the same garbage but when a new MMO comes out its a WOW clone and no one will stick around lol. The haters of TOR are going to be shown up pretty hard when this game doesnt take a crap like they think it will.
Ok, I understand your opinion, but what is option B?
Achievements?
You then have to have finished the content before people think you are ready to do the content - which makes no sense.
What other measuring stick do you use?
Skills/level? At "end game" everyone will have maxed out skills and/or level, so how do you seperate the good from the bad?
Now I agree that mods like GearScore and Deadly Boss Mods did far, far more damage to WoW than they did good. Just like LFG finder made things "easier" but also ruined any sense of community or purpose to having a reputation and being a skilled player.
I guess I'm old school, but I believe that if you want to do end-game level content, you join a guild and prove yourself capable in terms of skill and make friendships with your guildies.
If you just want to PUG randomly, then you have to prepare yourself to being judged by the only available measuring sticks available to a group leader to determine whether or not you can handle the content.
Between the two options: What WoW has become and what WoW was back in Vanilla and most of BC, I'd take the neccessity of social interaction and reputation from Vanilla/BC over the Wrath/Cata WoW 10 times out of 10.
You have an third option, I'm sure devs would love to hear it!
Because there are millions of people whose first MMO was WoW, so in their minds, WoW invented everything.
1. Calm down. These are just games.
2. The world is made up of a lot of different people. Not all of them are going to think like you do. Once you learn to accept that fact, you'll find that life is much easier to deal with.
3. The reason that WoW is still so popular "after more then 7 years of the same garbage" is because nothing that has come after it has been able to match its quality.
4. People will stick around for any game if they're being entertained. When they stop being entertained, they'll move on to something else. Or, as in WoW's example, they'll stay with the game simply because nothing else appeals to them.
The big question is, will SWTOR be able to keep players entertained? Once all of the storylines have been played through; once all of the cutscenes have been watched; once all of the "dungeons" have been "raided", will it still be able to keep its players entertained?
The trick is to ensure that there's at least 6-12 months of unique content available at launch. If they've designed a game that allows players to hit level cap in a week or so, then they're screwed. If they can keep them playing for at least 6 months (main and alts), that will give them time to add new content.
Regularly updated content + multiple paths of progression = replayability = people play (and pay) longer = more money and time to create new content, etc, etc, etc.
I'm pretty sure that Bioware knows what they're doing as far as long-time plans for the game. That still leaves the big question: Will there be enough content at release to keep people playing and paying long enough to let them add more?
"[World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards. It's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb." - BioWare Founder Greg Zeschuk at the DICE summit keynote panel in Las Vegas 2010
Even if WoW was the first MMO, there are many differences between WoW and SWToR. SWToR is not a reskinned WoW. It would be far more accurate to call SWToR a descendant of WoW. In the same Genus (theme park) but a different species (Theme Parkus WoW and Theme Parkus SWToR).
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
SWTOR certainly has an uphill climb to win the affection of the mmo community imo. It has to endure the comparisons to WoW and SWG. It has to endure the criticism of fans who are seemingly NEVER happy. (ie: you give them a doughnut and the first thing they say is "look at the size of the hole in that doughnut")
I'm gonna play it, if it gets boring then I'll quit and go play something else. Enough said.
THIS I can agree with. But to say that SWTOR doesn't directly copy all of the core fundamentals that WoW has established is just people putting their heads in the sand and saying "If I can't see it, then it's not true!" over and over. lol
Look at it this way maybe then you'll understand why TOR is a WoW clone.
Imagine for a moment there are only 4 MMO's on the market. WoW, Eve, Runescape and Tibia.
Now TOR comes out. Which out of these 3 does it resemble most? Is the problem more clear now?
Really how often does one have to explain what a clone is and how a clone is NOT the same as a direct identical bit by bit copy of something else. A clone is ALWAYS a bit different. You can clone yourself in a lab, and your clone will not be exactly like you, neither physically nor mentally (because people would treat him like a clone).
If you take something, and build upon it, and after you're finished you can still recognize the original core, it is pretty much the definition of a clone. It is not always entirely bad, after all you could cal lStarcraft a clone of Warcraft, each being a great game on its own. But MMO's are different, as most of them are ones that are based upon senseless grinds rather than clever gameplay. Cloning that is not a good idea. Even mere innovation is not enough. A revolution is what's needed.
It doesn't help that Bioware had this unlucky idea to also clone WoW's crappy graphics and bad cartoony style (Have nothing against cartoons, TF2 has an amazing style), which reinforce the clone feeling even more than the gameplay.
My Guild Wars 2 First Beta Weekend "reviewette" : http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4944570/thread/349125#4944570
This is the probelm with gear treadmills, and then it's just made worse with cross server grouping. On the one hand you get elitist jerks judging you on what you wear, and on the other zero community.
Making people group with their own server population fosters community, your reputation as a player holds worth. Removing the gear treadmill, or the dependency on tiers of equipment, also allows your reputation as a player to mean something. Act like a jerk and suddenly you find it hard to get groups. Lack skill at the game and the same applies, ecouraging people to learn their class and play it accordingly.
Fortunately TOR has no cross server grouping which is a good start. From what I saw in the beta the gear dependancy is not as big a feature as in WoW. Hopefully it will stay this way and players will be allowed to prove themselves based on their skill at playing their class. That will make it a totally different game to WoW.
It seems to be human nature to compare things. Even if it's illogical of us to do so.
WOW doesn't have player housing / ships
WOW doesn't have full V.O quests
WOW doesn't have companion system
WOW doesn't have crew skills
WOW doesn't have modding system
WOW doesn't have jedi and sith
WOW doesn't have FFA PVP
WOW doesn't have dungeons which change on basis of choices made by players
And my favorite..wow doesn't have lightsabers
I have to go grab a beer now so this is my list for now. People focus too much on similar and forget what is different
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
Subs will be so low there is no need for more
Snoocky-How many servers?
The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.