Somehow I doubt you'd want competitve PVP if they offered no extra incentives to do so... meaning you can't gear up any better or faster than any fool who just queued up for the very first time. Players do competitive PVP for the advantages... not for the team work... if they are that good, they don't need a support team to back them up, a pocket healer, an orchestrated attack plan over vent.
Lets say they let you have your competitive PVP... but like all professional sports, you aren't allowed to compete at the amateur level. What if the moment you played your first full team versus full team you were never allowed to queue up for any PVP unless it was in a full team scenario? You say you want competitive PVP, but really what you are after is the advantage that team-based PVP offers without any repercussions. If you had to wait 4 hours just to get into a single game in which the other team sucked and you facerolled them, only to have to wait 12 hours for another group I think you'd realize that PVP is only really fun if it's instant action. And you gave that up for team sport.
This is simply not true. Why do you think WoW's arena's are so popular on a competative level. Why do you think MOBAs are so popular? It has much less to do with the rewards and MUCH more to do with competative gaming.
^^ This
I couldn't care less about rewards/gear coming from PvP, I just want to fight other players. For FUN.
Somehow I doubt you'd want competitve PVP if they offered no extra incentives to do so... meaning you can't gear up any better or faster than any fool who just queued up for the very first time. Players do competitive PVP for the advantages... not for the team work... if they are that good, they don't need a support team to back them up, a pocket healer, an orchestrated attack plan over vent.
Lets say they let you have your competitive PVP... but like all professional sports, you aren't allowed to compete at the amateur level. What if the moment you played your first full team versus full team you were never allowed to queue up for any PVP unless it was in a full team scenario? You say you want competitive PVP, but really what you are after is the advantage that team-based PVP offers without any repercussions. If you had to wait 4 hours just to get into a single game in which the other team sucked and you facerolled them, only to have to wait 12 hours for another group I think you'd realize that PVP is only really fun if it's instant action. And you gave that up for team sport.
This is simply not true. Why do you think WoW's arena's are so popular on a competative level. Why do you think MOBAs are so popular? It has much less to do with the rewards and MUCH more to do with competative gaming.
^^ This
I couldn't care less about rewards/gear coming from PvP, I just want to fight other players. For FUN.
I disagree, it had far more to due with rewards than the competativeness of the game.
In order to get the best PvP gear you had to do arenas.
Somehow I doubt you'd want competitve PVP if they offered no extra incentives to do so... meaning you can't gear up any better or faster than any fool who just queued up for the very first time. Players do competitive PVP for the advantages... not for the team work... if they are that good, they don't need a support team to back them up, a pocket healer, an orchestrated attack plan over vent.
Lets say they let you have your competitive PVP... but like all professional sports, you aren't allowed to compete at the amateur level. What if the moment you played your first full team versus full team you were never allowed to queue up for any PVP unless it was in a full team scenario? You say you want competitive PVP, but really what you are after is the advantage that team-based PVP offers without any repercussions. If you had to wait 4 hours just to get into a single game in which the other team sucked and you facerolled them, only to have to wait 12 hours for another group I think you'd realize that PVP is only really fun if it's instant action. And you gave that up for team sport.
This is simply not true. Why do you think WoW's arena's are so popular on a competative level. Why do you think MOBAs are so popular? It has much less to do with the rewards and MUCH more to do with competative gaming.
^^ This
I couldn't care less about rewards/gear coming from PvP, I just want to fight other players. For FUN.
I disagree, it had far more to due with rewards than the competativeness of the game.
In order to get the best PvP gear you had to do arenas.
Exactly, the game is built to where 1 type of pvp offers you the biggest advantage, which in WoW is gear. I personally would like to see the pvp in TOR be more than just another goddamn gear grind that requires doing exactly the same thing over and over again. I guess I'm hoping for some diversity and actual depth in this area, though I highly doubt it will happen.
No I don't think it matters much as those features are not actually that popular when separated out.
If you have two separate queues of premade and no-premade. The no premade destroys the premade queue in numbers. So much so that the no-premade queue goes completely dead.
In Global agenda they have this and what they did was make the "arena" team queue only happen once every hour so that they could actually get enough people in the queue to get matches happening quickly because it was so disparate and useless on its own.
The fact of the matter is no matter what it is (softball or coop gaming) the vast majority if people are not into the competitive aspects enough to do this sort of things seriously.
Only the other hand adding easy features like the Global Agenda is really easy and there is no reason BW can't do it in a very very modest amount of dev time. They simply have no bothered thinking about it because they don't care about it.
Pre-mades against non-premades does suck and is also stupid. Most developers are starting to realize this and prevent it from occurring.
Pre-made versus pre-made can be quite excellent. But on its own only happens rarely in comparison to the normal match play.
In match play you can easily control the pre-made verrsus non-pre-made problem and even turn it to your advantage by having a separate track for pre-mades. But in World PvP the problem can spiral out of control. But that is part of the charm of world PvP, the lack of control, the chaos and unpredictability.
Good pre-mades are rare. This is a fact. They are also usually very powerful. In the context of world PvP that means you can throw numbers at good pre-mades. I nthe context of a match it means the match is pointless.
All good ideas, IMO. I'll be spending most of my time in the FFA zone, as that's my particular style, but I wouldn't mind at all heading to a cantina and placing a bet on my favorite Huttball team. That's actually one of the coolest ideas I've heard in a long, long time.
One thing I will say, anytime someone says 'How hard could it be to implement?' or 'This wouldn't take much effort to develop.', I have to chuckle. A lot of the time, it takes more effort than you think, and never is it just an easy fix. But other than that, top notch suggestions.
#1, #2 & #3 will at some point be in the game. I don't see any of those impacting the story in a negative way. They probably want to see how much focus is put on PvP versus PvE by the players first to see when to add that type of thing.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
E-sports in swtor?. just NO. you´ll have gw2 for that, is better if they work on more warfronts and RvR zones like Ilum, and since the guys of mythic are around, thats probably whats gonna happen.
Personally I hope they stay away from more warzones and just focus on improving the world PVP. To date, no one has matched the PVP of DAOC from 10 years ago for fun and addictiveness: simple goals with simple but noticeable rewards for everyone on your faction in a server, promoted a sense of community I haven't felt in MMOs since.
I've never played any other game where when word that another faction was massing and about to try for a relic keep would mean that the vast majority of players would drop what they were doing and head to the PVP zones to defend and often counterattack. We had massive fights that lasted for days sometimes.
WOW was the MMO that institutionalized instanced PVP scenarios for small groups and this has become what people think of first when they think of PVP. The excuse is that this is more accessible to the casual player.
I was pretty damn casual with a 2-year-old toddler and family responsibilities and I had no problem in DAOC dropping and playing again when I could. As a matter of fact, depending on where you logged out if you had been with a full raid at the time, you could have some hairy experiences finding your way back to safety solo... and that was also fun.
PVP scenarios are just easy to design and control. And it seems to satisfy those who have never had better. I hate the g**d d****d things but do them anyway because I love PVP and that's most of what there is. But there's no way I'm going to waste breath calling for improvements to a system I don't even like.
Well-designed open world is where I want BW to focus all their PVP attention.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Sorry OP, but if you think this is going to make any difference to the success of SWTOR you are sadly mistaken. I understand that some people are fanatical about organised, competetive PVP but those people are very much in a minority.
If that is all you care about then I'd suggest looking at other games, I've heard Star Wars Monopoly is very good :P
/world pvp seems to be where tor is focusing. U got 3 warzones vs 11 pvp lakes even on pve servers. So seems world pvp is tor's main focus pvp wise.
Fony by the way liked the warzones. If u like bgs the warzones will be fun i think . Im gonna at least try huttball it looks like a blast
Ill admit im not a pvp junkie. I dont do much pvp usually. That said tor's objective based world pvp has me rethinking that. Im gonna avoid tatooines ffa zone though.
Why do games need competitive pvp. sorry but why do u need a type of pvp like arenas . People usually whine there is no world pvp in games now a company gives u world pvp even on pve servers and people whine theres no competitive pvp.
I was hoping for a faction vs faction mass pvp setup with land control, the game is just screaming for it, the same way wow was, but wow screwed it by making resilence, and swwow has failed and did the same thing, IMO the best pvp gear should be the exact same gear thats best for pve, and not be a seperate gear line, PVPers are a vast minority compared to pve players, and with this dual gear system wow/swwow(star wars world of warcraft) uses it cuts out the pve people from really trying pvp, w/o expertise/resilence they'll go into a pvp match and get rolled due to their armor doing pratically nil. SUre the pvp'ers will QQ about having to raid for gear, but they are in the minority as I have said, and should just be ignored in terms of making seperate gear. Now to make pvp also worthwhile: do what daoc did, some extra skills and stuff you can earn via pvp. Make them as a bonus though and not required for the pve raid stuff.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
I was hoping for a faction vs faction mass pvp setup with land control, the game is just screaming for it, the same way wow was, but wow screwed it by making resilence, and swwow has failed and did the same thing, IMO the best pvp gear should be the exact same gear thats best for pve, and not be a seperate gear line, PVPers are a vast minority compared to pve players, and with this dual gear system wow/swwow(star wars world of warcraft) uses it cuts out the pve people from really trying pvp, w/o expertise/resilence they'll go into a pvp match and get rolled due to their armor doing pratically nil. SUre the pvp'ers will QQ about having to raid for gear, but they are in the minority as I have said, and should just be ignored in terms of making seperate gear. Now to make pvp also worthwhile: do what daoc did, some extra skills and stuff you can earn via pvp. Make them as a bonus though and not required for the pve raid stuff.
Tor is gonna have that faction vs faction mass pvp stuff. Illum is a 24/7 persistane world pvp with objectives to capture. U can go capture it at any time also. the thing never resets.
They have 11 pvp lakes on pve servers. Once u leave the capitol worlds on pvp servers pvp is enabled. /so around level 16.
so they have the open world pvp stuff. They do have pvp gear. but its onlya 10 pct diffrence then if u do pvp in pve gear and vice versa
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
You have good ideas here, OP. I don't think you should be so upset about it though, the devs are only going to put so many features in a NEW game. As with every other MMO out there, they will add features at later times. Just play the game and have fun, if all else PvP on another game until it's improved in TOR to the way you want it.
Unfortunately for you, though, you're out of luck. Have you read the threads in this forum? Every single noob out there wants some kind of different feature put into the game that they are raging over. It is stupid. Just saying. Really...as I said earlier, this is a NEW MMORPG. They aren't going to put every little feature in the entire genre at launch. You people need to give them a break. Give them some time, they might just put more content into the game. Usually happens in this genre.
IMO the best pvp gear should be the exact same gear thats best for pve, and not be a seperate gear line
Good point and I agree. Resilience gear just creates a separate gear grind that segregates the community and promotes min/maxing the PVP gear grind with exclusive premades, etc.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Not worried this game seems to be more about mass pvp which is far more fun. Why be competitive in a fish bowl when the sea is out there my little shark!
I sort of feel like themepark PVP is a nice sideshow, but that's about it. Nobody ever gets it right in terms of balance or progression. I know people really enjoy PVP, but I fail to understand why the hardcore old-school PVP crowd flocks to every themepark expecting the next great PVP MMO. I have no problem with this type of thing being in-game, but I think it's a bit unrealistic to expect a game that seems so focused on PVE to focus on content that less players will participate in -- maybe they'll put this in later, but I think the focus should be on PVE at launch.
I like PVP too, but I've given up on themepark PVP ever being truly competitive.
It sounds to me like you want some kinda DOTA style e-sport crap in SWTOR. Honestly if they would have done that I think it would have ruined the game. Its a pve centric game they stated this very early, I have no clue why pvp junkies always choose to ignore this. Every time a game is made and its stated early and on a regular basis its a pve game or in this case its a story driven pve game, the pvpers come in and start bitching about pvp. Who fuckin cares, if you cant take the time to read then you have no right to bitch. This game is launching with more than you deserve already, with several pvp instances as well as entire open world pvp planets, stop complaining, no one wants to hear it.
Good point! People should realize this is a PvE game! Bioware is focusing on PvE!! I mean its not like they are releasing PvP servers or anything silly like that.
Comments
^^ This
I couldn't care less about rewards/gear coming from PvP, I just want to fight other players. For FUN.
I disagree, it had far more to due with rewards than the competativeness of the game.
In order to get the best PvP gear you had to do arenas.
Exactly, the game is built to where 1 type of pvp offers you the biggest advantage, which in WoW is gear. I personally would like to see the pvp in TOR be more than just another goddamn gear grind that requires doing exactly the same thing over and over again. I guess I'm hoping for some diversity and actual depth in this area, though I highly doubt it will happen.
Pre-Mades suck. So I'm glad they don't have it.
No I don't think it matters much as those features are not actually that popular when separated out.
If you have two separate queues of premade and no-premade. The no premade destroys the premade queue in numbers. So much so that the no-premade queue goes completely dead.
In Global agenda they have this and what they did was make the "arena" team queue only happen once every hour so that they could actually get enough people in the queue to get matches happening quickly because it was so disparate and useless on its own.
The fact of the matter is no matter what it is (softball or coop gaming) the vast majority if people are not into the competitive aspects enough to do this sort of things seriously.
Only the other hand adding easy features like the Global Agenda is really easy and there is no reason BW can't do it in a very very modest amount of dev time. They simply have no bothered thinking about it because they don't care about it.
Pre-mades against non-premades does suck and is also stupid. Most developers are starting to realize this and prevent it from occurring.
Pre-made versus pre-made can be quite excellent. But on its own only happens rarely in comparison to the normal match play.
In match play you can easily control the pre-made verrsus non-pre-made problem and even turn it to your advantage by having a separate track for pre-mades. But in World PvP the problem can spiral out of control. But that is part of the charm of world PvP, the lack of control, the chaos and unpredictability.
Good pre-mades are rare. This is a fact. They are also usually very powerful. In the context of world PvP that means you can throw numbers at good pre-mades. I nthe context of a match it means the match is pointless.
All good ideas, IMO. I'll be spending most of my time in the FFA zone, as that's my particular style, but I wouldn't mind at all heading to a cantina and placing a bet on my favorite Huttball team. That's actually one of the coolest ideas I've heard in a long, long time.
One thing I will say, anytime someone says 'How hard could it be to implement?' or 'This wouldn't take much effort to develop.', I have to chuckle. A lot of the time, it takes more effort than you think, and never is it just an easy fix. But other than that, top notch suggestions.
#1, #2 & #3 will at some point be in the game. I don't see any of those impacting the story in a negative way. They probably want to see how much focus is put on PvP versus PvE by the players first to see when to add that type of thing.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
E-sports in swtor?. just NO. you´ll have gw2 for that, is better if they work on more warfronts and RvR zones like Ilum, and since the guys of mythic are around, thats probably whats gonna happen.
Personally I hope they stay away from more warzones and just focus on improving the world PVP. To date, no one has matched the PVP of DAOC from 10 years ago for fun and addictiveness: simple goals with simple but noticeable rewards for everyone on your faction in a server, promoted a sense of community I haven't felt in MMOs since.
I've never played any other game where when word that another faction was massing and about to try for a relic keep would mean that the vast majority of players would drop what they were doing and head to the PVP zones to defend and often counterattack. We had massive fights that lasted for days sometimes.
WOW was the MMO that institutionalized instanced PVP scenarios for small groups and this has become what people think of first when they think of PVP. The excuse is that this is more accessible to the casual player.
I was pretty damn casual with a 2-year-old toddler and family responsibilities and I had no problem in DAOC dropping and playing again when I could. As a matter of fact, depending on where you logged out if you had been with a full raid at the time, you could have some hairy experiences finding your way back to safety solo... and that was also fun.
PVP scenarios are just easy to design and control. And it seems to satisfy those who have never had better. I hate the g**d d****d things but do them anyway because I love PVP and that's most of what there is. But there's no way I'm going to waste breath calling for improvements to a system I don't even like.
Well-designed open world is where I want BW to focus all their PVP attention.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Sorry OP, but if you think this is going to make any difference to the success of SWTOR you are sadly mistaken. I understand that some people are fanatical about organised, competetive PVP but those people are very much in a minority.
If that is all you care about then I'd suggest looking at other games, I've heard Star Wars Monopoly is very good :P
/world pvp seems to be where tor is focusing. U got 3 warzones vs 11 pvp lakes even on pve servers. So seems world pvp is tor's main focus pvp wise.
Fony by the way liked the warzones. If u like bgs the warzones will be fun i think . Im gonna at least try huttball it looks like a blast
Ill admit im not a pvp junkie. I dont do much pvp usually. That said tor's objective based world pvp has me rethinking that. Im gonna avoid tatooines ffa zone though.
Why do games need competitive pvp. sorry but why do u need a type of pvp like arenas . People usually whine there is no world pvp in games now a company gives u world pvp even on pve servers and people whine theres no competitive pvp.
@OP
99% of people hated arena bro.
Go back to wow.
Only reward I need is to see a dead rebel!!
I was hoping for a faction vs faction mass pvp setup with land control, the game is just screaming for it, the same way wow was, but wow screwed it by making resilence, and swwow has failed and did the same thing, IMO the best pvp gear should be the exact same gear thats best for pve, and not be a seperate gear line, PVPers are a vast minority compared to pve players, and with this dual gear system wow/swwow(star wars world of warcraft) uses it cuts out the pve people from really trying pvp, w/o expertise/resilence they'll go into a pvp match and get rolled due to their armor doing pratically nil. SUre the pvp'ers will QQ about having to raid for gear, but they are in the minority as I have said, and should just be ignored in terms of making seperate gear. Now to make pvp also worthwhile: do what daoc did, some extra skills and stuff you can earn via pvp. Make them as a bonus though and not required for the pve raid stuff.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
U do get rewards for pvp in tor. U get commendations u can use to buy pvp gear. U get medals and titles. U know how some people love there titles.
So there are rewards for pvping.
Tor is gonna have that faction vs faction mass pvp stuff. Illum is a 24/7 persistane world pvp with objectives to capture. U can go capture it at any time also. the thing never resets.
They have 11 pvp lakes on pve servers. Once u leave the capitol worlds on pvp servers pvp is enabled. /so around level 16.
so they have the open world pvp stuff. They do have pvp gear. but its onlya 10 pct diffrence then if u do pvp in pve gear and vice versa
So u can pve in pvp gear and pvp in pve gear.
I agree with this. People should play the games that offer features they want instead of trying to change games that don't.
OP, I feel like you are going to an oyster bar but wanting hamburgers.
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https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I'd say a lot of people don't like Arene. Probably not 99%, but a lot.
hmmm...this thread sounds like a rage fest.
You have good ideas here, OP. I don't think you should be so upset about it though, the devs are only going to put so many features in a NEW game. As with every other MMO out there, they will add features at later times. Just play the game and have fun, if all else PvP on another game until it's improved in TOR to the way you want it.
Unfortunately for you, though, you're out of luck. Have you read the threads in this forum? Every single noob out there wants some kind of different feature put into the game that they are raging over. It is stupid. Just saying. Really...as I said earlier, this is a NEW MMORPG. They aren't going to put every little feature in the entire genre at launch. You people need to give them a break. Give them some time, they might just put more content into the game. Usually happens in this genre.
Argh
Yes, essentially this.
Argh
Good point and I agree. Resilience gear just creates a separate gear grind that segregates the community and promotes min/maxing the PVP gear grind with exclusive premades, etc.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Not worried this game seems to be more about mass pvp which is far more fun. Why be competitive in a fish bowl when the sea is out there my little shark!
I sort of feel like themepark PVP is a nice sideshow, but that's about it. Nobody ever gets it right in terms of balance or progression. I know people really enjoy PVP, but I fail to understand why the hardcore old-school PVP crowd flocks to every themepark expecting the next great PVP MMO. I have no problem with this type of thing being in-game, but I think it's a bit unrealistic to expect a game that seems so focused on PVE to focus on content that less players will participate in -- maybe they'll put this in later, but I think the focus should be on PVE at launch.
I like PVP too, but I've given up on themepark PVP ever being truly competitive.
Good point! People should realize this is a PvE game! Bioware is focusing on PvE!! I mean its not like they are releasing PvP servers or anything silly like that.
oh wait....