Changing how a few things look and making the game easier?
Heres a novel concept, if I want an western MMORGP I can just play one of them. If I want to play your game and it happens to be Korean maybe I want to play it the way you envisioned it instead of making silly superficial changes that are only going to please people that probably won't play your game anyway.
Yup yup. I agree with you 100%
Me too. I'd even play it if it were still in Korean, with English subtitles.. Might even prefer it that way.
I *LIKE* cultural differences, and its frustrating that games from other cultures take so long to go through this westernization nonsense, not to mention all the ones that don't even make it to the west at all, because all that might not pay off.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Changing how a few things look and making the game easier?
Heres a novel concept, if I want an western MMORGP I can just play one of them. If I want to play your game and it happens to be Korean maybe I want to play it the way you envisioned it instead of making silly superficial changes that are only going to please people that probably won't play your game anyway.
Yup yup. I agree with you 100%
Me too. I'd even play it if it were still in Korean, with English subtitles.. Might even prefer it that way.
I *LIKE* cultural differences, and its frustrating that games from other cultures take so long to go through this westernization nonsense, not to mention all the ones that don't even make it to the west at all, because all that might not pay off.
I think that westernization of games is smart. There are many things that asians like that westerners don't and visa versa. Although there is a population who doesn't care one way or another, it does to a very large percent of the population, otherwise companies wouldn't go through the trouble.
Changing how a few things look and making the game easier?
Heres a novel concept, if I want an western MMORGP I can just play one of them. If I want to play your game and it happens to be Korean maybe I want to play it the way you envisioned it instead of making silly superficial changes that are only going to please people that probably won't play your game anyway.
Yup yup. I agree with you 100%
Me too. I'd even play it if it were still in Korean, with English subtitles.. Might even prefer it that way.
I *LIKE* cultural differences, and its frustrating that games from other cultures take so long to go through this westernization nonsense, not to mention all the ones that don't even make it to the west at all, because all that might not pay off.
I think that westernization of games is smart. There are many things that asians like that westerners don't and visa versa. Although there is a population who doesn't care one way or another, it does to a very large percent of the population, otherwise companies wouldn't go through the trouble.
Yes but ArcheAge is designed from the ground up with the western market in mind. Also as an example TERA was not a grindy game and didn't take long to level up to max in but they have made a lot of unnecessary changes to it.
Changing how a few things look and making the game easier?
Heres a novel concept, if I want an western MMORGP I can just play one of them. If I want to play your game and it happens to be Korean maybe I want to play it the way you envisioned it instead of making silly superficial changes that are only going to please people that probably won't play your game anyway.
Yup yup. I agree with you 100%
Me too. I'd even play it if it were still in Korean, with English subtitles.. Might even prefer it that way.
I *LIKE* cultural differences, and its frustrating that games from other cultures take so long to go through this westernization nonsense, not to mention all the ones that don't even make it to the west at all, because all that might not pay off.
I think that westernization of games is smart. There are many things that asians like that westerners don't and visa versa. Although there is a population who doesn't care one way or another, it does to a very large percent of the population, otherwise companies wouldn't go through the trouble.
Yes but ArcheAge is designed from the ground up with the western market in mind. Also as an example TERA was not a grindy game and didn't take long to level up to max in but they have made a lot of unnecessary changes to it.
Yes but ArcheAge is designed from the ground up with the western market in mind.
I dont know if I agree with that, because if that were the case archage would be the same old themepark game that every other western developer has been feeding us.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Yes but ArcheAge is designed from the ground up with the western market in mind.
I dont know if I agree with that, because if that were the case archage would be the same old themepark game that every other western developer has been feeding us.
jake song as said it many times. is it being developed solely for the west? no.
but it is being developed wth the "west in mind". to me that means with features or without features the westerners seem to like/dislike.
Yes but ArcheAge is designed from the ground up with the western market in mind.
I dont know if I agree with that, because if that were the case archage would be the same old themepark game that every other western developer has been feeding us.
jake song as said it many times. is it being developed solely for the west? no.
but it is being developed wth the "west in mind". to me that means with features or without features the westerners seem to like/dislike.
the art style is not crazy over the top anime.
its not the usual asian grind grind grind
But look at the games that are developed in the "west". They are all (well mostly few exceptions) themepark, easy mode instant gratifacation right? For some god awful reason westerns still eat them up like virtual crack. Just look at TOR. I am still dumbfounded that its as hyped as it is. We as gamers have been down that track many times already. Except this time its a space track, but under the skin its the exact same ride. So when someone says there making a game for the western audience thats what I expect to see.
Another little hint or food for thought. Over my many years in the MMO genre I have come to learn developers are a lot like politicians. They say things just to try and make everyone happy, or make it sound good, or better. You can not take everything they say seriouisly, EVER. If you do your setting yourself up for serious dissapointment. The game is not developed with the west in mind. Common sense tells us that. You want to know why I say that? Ill tell you why because if it was developed with the west in mind, it would be released in the west on day 1, not a year or more later. There is absolutly no reason that if a game was developed for certian demograghic that it would not be released for them on day 1.
More food for thought: The asian MMO market is much bigger than the western mmo market. So again the fact that its releasing over there first and mind you well before it comes to the west, tells me that it is not made primarily for the west. Again no excuse for that, you can butter it up all you like, and try to make excusses all you like but if its not here on day 1 its not soly for us.
With that said I am highly anticipating Archeage. Not all asian games are massive grinds, and not all asian games are over the top anime (Those do sell really good in the west, thats why we see so many of them). A sandboxish feeling game is not western mainstream, not even close, that is more akin to asian style hybrid games.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
To be completely honest Archeage seems almost like it was designed with the western style especially since they have said they have largely based alot of it off Ultima Online, so I feel that they will want a Western release sooner rather than later. I predict less than a year after Korean release. I wouldn't even be surprised if it does better in the West than it does in Korea.
Originally posted by toddze
Originally posted by Xzen
Yes but ArcheAge is designed from the ground up with the western market in mind.
I dont know if I agree with that, because if that were the case archage would be the same old themepark game that every other western developer has been feeding us.
Well, now your talking about genre style, Tbh Sandbox is more Western than Themepark is because there have been alot more Western Sandbox games than East, but East has had just as many if not more Themepark grindfest games ( in fact Korea is known for them, perhaps even moreso than the West ).
To be completely honest Archeage seems almost like it was designed with the western style especially since they have said they have largely based alot of it off Ultima Online, so I feel that they will want a Western release sooner rather than later. I predict less than a year after Korean release. I wouldn't even be surprised if it does better in the West than it does in Korea.
Originally posted by toddze
Originally posted by Xzen
Yes but ArcheAge is designed from the ground up with the western market in mind.
I dont know if I agree with that, because if that were the case archage would be the same old themepark game that every other western developer has been feeding us.
Well, now your talking about genre style, Tbh Sandbox is more Western than Themepark is because there have been alot more Western Sandbox games than East, but East has had just as many if not more Themepark grindfest games ( in fact Korea is known for them, perhaps even moreso than the West ).
Well if your looking at like that then the entire genre is western. Since thats where it started. I also realize that in the early days MMO's were much more sandboxish, but that is far from the case now. And were talking about right now. I find it hard to see anyone able to dispute that the majority of the western market is themepark based.
I think its safe to say that western sandbox games are dead. As in not being made. It doesnt take much to see that the western market has gone the way of themepark games. Thats why i say if a game is made for the western market expect a theme park game. Sandbox games in the western market are a niche group now.
I realized this a few years ago when I finally figured out that I no longer like western style mmo's because they have gotten away friom what I enjoyed in the early days of MMO's. I have found that asian made MMO's have a much better chance of suiting my playstyle. As they are much more likely to have sandbox features. Yes they also make their fair share of themparks as well, why because they sell.
This game is going to hit every major asian market before it hits the west. Theres no way if a game is really made for the west, that the west would be the last to get it.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
To be completely honest Archeage seems almost like it was designed with the western style especially since they have said they have largely based alot of it off Ultima Online, so I feel that they will want a Western release sooner rather than later. I predict less than a year after Korean release. I wouldn't even be surprised if it does better in the West than it does in Korea.
Originally posted by toddze
Originally posted by Xzen
Yes but ArcheAge is designed from the ground up with the western market in mind.
I dont know if I agree with that, because if that were the case archage would be the same old themepark game that every other western developer has been feeding us.
Well, now your talking about genre style, Tbh Sandbox is more Western than Themepark is because there have been alot more Western Sandbox games than East, but East has had just as many if not more Themepark grindfest games ( in fact Korea is known for them, perhaps even moreso than the West ).
Well if your looking at like that then the entire genre is western. Since thats where it started. I also realize that in the early days MMO's were much more sandboxish, but that is far from the case now. And were talking about right now. I find it hard to see anyone able to dispute that the majority of the western market is themepark based.
I think its safe to say that western sandbox games are dead. As in not being made. It doesnt take much to see that the western market has gone the way of themepark games. Thats why i say if a game is made for the western market expect a theme park game. Sandbox games in the western market are a niche group now.
I realized this a few years ago when I finally figured out that I no longer like western style mmo's because they have gotten away friom what I enjoyed in the early days of MMO's. I have found that asian made MMO's have a much better chance of suiting my playstyle. As they are much more likely to have sandbox features. Yes they also make their fair share of themparks as well, why because they sell.
This game is going to hit every major asian market before it hits the west. Theres no way if a game is really made for the west, that the west would be the last to get it.
That is the one thing that buggs me about ArcheAge right now. No news for NA
That is the one thing that buggs me about ArcheAge right now. No news for NA
Exactly, a game made for the west, doesnt even get any news or updates for the western fanbase? Just another example why I know this game isnt made for the western market. And you know thats not a bad thing either. For me I see that as a good thing since I have no intrest in western style games anymore.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
That is the one thing that buggs me about ArcheAge right now. No news for NA
Exactly, a game made for the west, doesnt even get any news or updates for the western fanbase? Just another example why I know this game isnt made for the western market. And you know thats not a bad thing either. For me I see that as a good thing since I have no intrest in western style games anymore.
They said they had the western gamer audience in mind when they made it, not that it was specifically made for western noobs.
Yes but ArcheAge is designed from the ground up with the western market in mind.
I dont know if I agree with that, because if that were the case archage would be the same old themepark game that every other western developer has been feeding us.
jake song as said it many times. is it being developed solely for the west? no.
but it is being developed wth the "west in mind". to me that means with features or without features the westerners seem to like/dislike.
the art style is not crazy over the top anime.
its not the usual asian grind grind grind
Themepark vs. Sandbox has less to do with West vs. East as you think.
There are in fact differences, but the biggest one has more to do with the COLLECTIVE vs. INDIVIDUAL. Asian cultures tend to work as a collective in society more than Westerners. Westerners are more eager to go out in the world and make their own mark, and get their own stuff. BTW one isn't better than the other.
The point is, games like Lineage 2 fell flat for many Westeners because the drop rates were so stingy that solo players (or small groups of players) found it hard to level at a reasonable speed (having to spend what small money gains they made on consumables) and weren't able to keep up with the high cost of getting upgraded gear.
This was because the drop rates and STEEP requirements of crafting gear were tuned for whole guilds or alliances farming materials & gold to gear up single members at a time. During development of subsuqent updates, there was a strife between the western & eastern players because NCSoft was tuning and tweaking game mechanics that were too OP for large groups...which serverly hurt the smaller groups and solo players in the Western audience.
Korean grinders are labeled so by the West because IT IS a grind to have to kill 100,000 monsters by yourself just to get a reasonable amount of cash....but if you have 30 people farming at the same time to get the gold to buy a particular item....then it's not so much of a grind.
With all that said, its necessary to "Westernize" or account for the more individual spirit in Western culture in order to have success with a sandbox. Sandboxes are LARGELY about the community. Without a large robust community in a sandbox game.....all you have is an empty space. So while there might be a small niche within a niche community of folks that would play the game straight out of Korea.....there likely isn't enough players in the West that would adopt the game to create a large enough community for the Sandbox part of the game to float.
Lineage 2 just dealt with this very issue. After years of slowly whittling down the servers (what was once over a dozen servers) down to 2. They needed an infuse of new blood into the "end game", and made radical "western" changes to the game to increase the playerbase so that new players could breathe life back into the whole political end game.
So while there does need to be some compromise on the "easternization" of these kind of games coming out of Asia...they don't neccessarily need to be full blown WOW clone themeparks.
Doesn't really matter. We will all be playing SWTOR for the rest of our lives... or so I have heard.
or at the very least well be playing it for the rest of the free month lol.
There we go again.. let the battle begin.
On topic. Unless it has huge demand in west it will be released early or it will go the same route as any other asian MMO. It will be first released in Asia and then in west. Games like these are always a risky business so if any publisher is ready to snatch it up before the release, we might get it sooner.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6. US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian. Subs will be so low there is no need for more Snoocky-How many servers? The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
It means changing a few key elements so that it's audience is more then 50k hardcore gankers that 90% of will inevitably leave after 3 months when they realise they might have to actually fight each other on something like an even field.
Comments
Yeah. I would very much like some news regarding a NA release/publisher.
My theme song.
Me too. I'd even play it if it were still in Korean, with English subtitles.. Might even prefer it that way.
I *LIKE* cultural differences, and its frustrating that games from other cultures take so long to go through this westernization nonsense, not to mention all the ones that don't even make it to the west at all, because all that might not pay off.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I think that westernization of games is smart. There are many things that asians like that westerners don't and visa versa. Although there is a population who doesn't care one way or another, it does to a very large percent of the population, otherwise companies wouldn't go through the trouble.
I self identify as a monkey.
Yes but ArcheAge is designed from the ground up with the western market in mind. Also as an example TERA was not a grindy game and didn't take long to level up to max in but they have made a lot of unnecessary changes to it.
My theme song.
If thats the case, then I agree bring it on.
I self identify as a monkey.
I dont know if I agree with that, because if that were the case archage would be the same old themepark game that every other western developer has been feeding us.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
jake song as said it many times. is it being developed solely for the west? no.
but it is being developed wth the "west in mind". to me that means with features or without features the westerners seem to like/dislike.
the art style is not crazy over the top anime.
its not the usual asian grind grind grind
But look at the games that are developed in the "west". They are all (well mostly few exceptions) themepark, easy mode instant gratifacation right? For some god awful reason westerns still eat them up like virtual crack. Just look at TOR. I am still dumbfounded that its as hyped as it is. We as gamers have been down that track many times already. Except this time its a space track, but under the skin its the exact same ride. So when someone says there making a game for the western audience thats what I expect to see.
Another little hint or food for thought. Over my many years in the MMO genre I have come to learn developers are a lot like politicians. They say things just to try and make everyone happy, or make it sound good, or better. You can not take everything they say seriouisly, EVER. If you do your setting yourself up for serious dissapointment. The game is not developed with the west in mind. Common sense tells us that. You want to know why I say that? Ill tell you why because if it was developed with the west in mind, it would be released in the west on day 1, not a year or more later. There is absolutly no reason that if a game was developed for certian demograghic that it would not be released for them on day 1.
More food for thought: The asian MMO market is much bigger than the western mmo market. So again the fact that its releasing over there first and mind you well before it comes to the west, tells me that it is not made primarily for the west. Again no excuse for that, you can butter it up all you like, and try to make excusses all you like but if its not here on day 1 its not soly for us.
With that said I am highly anticipating Archeage. Not all asian games are massive grinds, and not all asian games are over the top anime (Those do sell really good in the west, thats why we see so many of them). A sandboxish feeling game is not western mainstream, not even close, that is more akin to asian style hybrid games.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
To be completely honest Archeage seems almost like it was designed with the western style especially since they have said they have largely based alot of it off Ultima Online, so I feel that they will want a Western release sooner rather than later. I predict less than a year after Korean release. I wouldn't even be surprised if it does better in the West than it does in Korea.
Well, now your talking about genre style, Tbh Sandbox is more Western than Themepark is because there have been alot more Western Sandbox games than East, but East has had just as many if not more Themepark grindfest games ( in fact Korea is known for them, perhaps even moreso than the West ).
Well if your looking at like that then the entire genre is western. Since thats where it started. I also realize that in the early days MMO's were much more sandboxish, but that is far from the case now. And were talking about right now. I find it hard to see anyone able to dispute that the majority of the western market is themepark based.
I think its safe to say that western sandbox games are dead. As in not being made. It doesnt take much to see that the western market has gone the way of themepark games. Thats why i say if a game is made for the western market expect a theme park game. Sandbox games in the western market are a niche group now.
I realized this a few years ago when I finally figured out that I no longer like western style mmo's because they have gotten away friom what I enjoyed in the early days of MMO's. I have found that asian made MMO's have a much better chance of suiting my playstyle. As they are much more likely to have sandbox features. Yes they also make their fair share of themparks as well, why because they sell.
This game is going to hit every major asian market before it hits the west. Theres no way if a game is really made for the west, that the west would be the last to get it.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
That is the one thing that buggs me about ArcheAge right now. No news for NA
My theme song.
Exactly, a game made for the west, doesnt even get any news or updates for the western fanbase? Just another example why I know this game isnt made for the western market. And you know thats not a bad thing either. For me I see that as a good thing since I have no intrest in western style games anymore.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Start of 80 day closed beta,then there wil lbean open beta and that is just for Korea.Then they need a NA publisher.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
They said they had the western gamer audience in mind when they made it, not that it was specifically made for western noobs.
There are in fact differences, but the biggest one has more to do with the COLLECTIVE vs. INDIVIDUAL. Asian cultures tend to work as a collective in society more than Westerners. Westerners are more eager to go out in the world and make their own mark, and get their own stuff. BTW one isn't better than the other.
The point is, games like Lineage 2 fell flat for many Westeners because the drop rates were so stingy that solo players (or small groups of players) found it hard to level at a reasonable speed (having to spend what small money gains they made on consumables) and weren't able to keep up with the high cost of getting upgraded gear.
This was because the drop rates and STEEP requirements of crafting gear were tuned for whole guilds or alliances farming materials & gold to gear up single members at a time. During development of subsuqent updates, there was a strife between the western & eastern players because NCSoft was tuning and tweaking game mechanics that were too OP for large groups...which serverly hurt the smaller groups and solo players in the Western audience.
Korean grinders are labeled so by the West because IT IS a grind to have to kill 100,000 monsters by yourself just to get a reasonable amount of cash....but if you have 30 people farming at the same time to get the gold to buy a particular item....then it's not so much of a grind.
With all that said, its necessary to "Westernize" or account for the more individual spirit in Western culture in order to have success with a sandbox. Sandboxes are LARGELY about the community. Without a large robust community in a sandbox game.....all you have is an empty space. So while there might be a small niche within a niche community of folks that would play the game straight out of Korea.....there likely isn't enough players in the West that would adopt the game to create a large enough community for the Sandbox part of the game to float.
Lineage 2 just dealt with this very issue. After years of slowly whittling down the servers (what was once over a dozen servers) down to 2. They needed an infuse of new blood into the "end game", and made radical "western" changes to the game to increase the playerbase so that new players could breathe life back into the whole political end game.
So while there does need to be some compromise on the "easternization" of these kind of games coming out of Asia...they don't neccessarily need to be full blown WOW clone themeparks.
Doesn't really matter. We will all be playing SWTOR for the rest of our lives... or so I have heard.
or at the very least well be playing it for the rest of the free month lol.
There we go again.. let the battle begin.
On topic. Unless it has huge demand in west it will be released early or it will go the same route as any other asian MMO. It will be first released in Asia and then in west. Games like these are always a risky business so if any publisher is ready to snatch it up before the release, we might get it sooner.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
Subs will be so low there is no need for more
Snoocky-How many servers?
The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
It means changing a few key elements so that it's audience is more then 50k hardcore gankers that 90% of will inevitably leave after 3 months when they realise they might have to actually fight each other on something like an even field.
(The other 10% will buy a hack and carry on)
This game looks pretty darned cool. I'm surprised at how polished the graphics look for a beta too. That's impressive.
If the game client and servers are stable, I'd drop money on this game in a heartbeat.
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.