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Moderation of moderators?
Painlezz
Member UncommonPosts: 646
Would love to see some moderation of moderators.
You really have two ways to look at it...
1) This is "your" site and you can do what you want with it... AKA ban/block/delete and otherwise censor everything you don't agree with. Basically turning the site into another useless location for biased information.
OR
2) Moderate the moderators. They should be controlling the "troll" population and useless posting of hate and such. I've seen multiple people banned (temp) for posting opinions that don't agree with the mods on this site.
Comments
If that is actually true, then you will be getting a ban for posting this thread. If you dont, then it proves its not true.
If a person feels a ban was unnecessary then they can contact the mod that issued the ban or [email protected] (I believe is the address) and try to get it sorted out. The mods are reasonable people when you actually talk to them. Its the internet and it can be difficult to illustrate your meaning and posts can eaisly come across as bashing, baiting, or trolling without the poster intending it to.
I think there already is a moderation of moderators in the sense that MikeB is the head mod and then there are other mods. If you feel you were wrongly banned and the mod that issued it just wont let up then you can go up the chain. If even he agrees with the ban then I would look back at the post and see what might have caused it.
I've recieved warnings on a few of my posts that at the time felt okay to post and all good, but upon further review (when I calmed down) I noticed I was trending it to "baiting."
It would actually be really nice IF you knew who the mod was that attacked you and get some more information. Unfortunately from my experience it is 100% anonymous. You're told it's from the "MMORPG.COM Staff" and nothing more.
I think the issue is, the rules are written (as are most rules) to basically cover anything under the sun. A disagreement with another member or even moderator post and comments about it could be considered attempted to bait another user into negative bla bla bla or whatever that rule is.
It's just really unfortunately because this is one of the larger "neutral" MMORPG communities and yet I continue to see so much bias against one thing or another. Feels like watching Fox news almost!
Well then just email the community email for the forums and you'll get a response from the mods.
And if what you say in paragraph two was true then 90% of posts on this site would be in violation. I've seen people instigate, disagree, and argue with a mod even and those posts remained visible. Its about what the post says and how its interpreted.
As mentioned above, anyone may give feedback on moderation by emailing [email protected] . Michael Bitton, the Community Manager, is always willing to hear you out.
It is not your opinion that gets you banned but how you write it.
While there have been times some mods have been over sensitive (mostly during the AoC Vs WAR battle and during the great Darkfall trollwars) they rarely censor or warn anyone that write a polite and smart post.
I think I got 2 bans since I started here, both deserving because I got upset when someone called me names and lowered myself to that level myself, it was years ago, last time 3 years ago. And I write a lot of posts, and far from always agree with the oponions of the page.
I think most mods here do a great job and if you don't agree with me, send a PM to the lead mod explaining the issue with qouthes and why you feel unjustly banned. Mods are humans as well as the rest of us and it is possible that someone might go down as colleteral damage in a flame war for stuff that wouldn't have banned them in a normal thread.
Compared to most forums this isn't a heavy moderated forum except with NDA breaks and beta leaks. And since the page needs the advertising money to survive that makes sense.
I once got a ban I thought I didn't deserve, complained about it to [email protected], and a few hours afterwards MikeB removed the ban. I think the moderation of moderators works well enough.
Sums it up pretty well.
As Community Manager, I am in charge of our moderators here. If you have an issue with a particular moderator, a moderator's action, or would like to appeal an infraction given to you by a moderator, simply get in touch with me and I'll be glad to assist. If you just have feedback you can send it my way as well, or post it here in Site Suggestions.
I'm going to disagree with the OP.
By and large the moderation here is "fair and balanced" on those occasions when I felt it was over the top MikeB was willing to review the situation and in some situations (not all) agree with me.
Few people post as much as I, yet I've only had a couple of temp bans in all that time. I've learned to moderate my own behavior, staying away from attacking posters, and even being careful how I disagree with another's opinion.
There's a big difference in saying "people who believe in A aren't thinking the situation through carefully" vs "only a flipping idiot could possibly believe in A" with the latter likely to be moderated.
Chose your words carefully and you'll rarely run afoul of the moderators here.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I completely disagree with you, based on my own experiences, and the fact that I've read many posts by others whose experiences echo mine.
Agreed.
Heh, I got some PMs from this guy that got 4 different accounts banned in 3 days. It wasn't really because he was a bad guy either but he was rather clueless and spammed the same questions over and over everywhere. Besidews being rude, that is another thing to avoid.
Most people who post a lot frequently here never gets issues with the mods, or a possible tempory ban due to not thinking when tired or in some cases drunken posting.
There is a reason that the people who are rude or trolling usually have few posts. For some reason the net is bringing out the worst in certain people and if you can't take an adult discussion you really don't belong in this forum anyways.
Generally speaking, when there has been communication - it has gone well. Sometimes it being a case of it being explained where something I was doing came across in a certain way and how I might avoid doing that, sometimes it was a case of seeing where I was coming from, sometimes it was a case of my apologizing for being the obvious ass.
Generally speaking, where there has been communication - it has gone well.
Where I'm completely lost is on the ghost dingage. I've been around here for a wee while, and I've never experienced the ghost dingage like I have in the past couple of months. I'm familiar with the hits for deleted posts, mod edits, and even if you post a bunch of silly short things (I tend to post long things people cannot be bothered reading, lol - could that be it?)...
Each time I come to the forums, I usually check for replies in the threads that I've posted in. That means that I'm going through my posts . . . so mod edits, deleted posts, etc would stand out. As my post counts increase, not with fluff nor filler, amongst a plethora of threads - sans warnings/etc - I've actually been experiencing ghost dingage. Things that mathematically do not seem possible - givens the number of points actually lost for warnings, deletions, mod edits, bans, etc.
You post a hundred things - you drop 1-2 pts. No warnings, deletions, etc, etc. It happens day after day after day.
I decided not to post for a period of time, and I actually went up 3 pts.
I'm fine eating the loss when it is communicated - even if I do not agree completely with it, since I honestly believe that the community guys here do a reasonably well - Hell, a great job - in those instances where it is communicated.
That does little for the growing paranoia over the ghost dingage because I'm not a F2P/GW2/SWTOR fanboi. The latter two are the worst, it would appear - if I post anything in a GW2/SWTOR thread - no warnings/deletions/mod edits/etc . . . I get dinged.
It could be outright paranoia - it's just funny though, I post a bunch without any warnings - I lose ratings. I'm quiet. I gain rating.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
What used to make me angry and now is just irksom is my ratings. If I don't post regularly and with with some substance...my ratings fall like a rock. If I stop posting they just continue to drop.Now....I just ignore my ratings....use the boards for my purposes and leave.
You ever notice that you and maybe 1 or 2 people are the only ones who reach over 8000 posts and have been here for a long time?
You ever notice that the other 95% of the people who've been here since <2006 have less than 2000 posts? If they have that many or more, generally they are in fact Mods themselves.
Coincidence?
Nope. Getting a ban on this site is simply inevitable.
Indeed. Michael is actually a great overseer of the moderators. If you have an issue with a moderator constantly deleting or removing content that does not seem to be correctly moderated send him an email. If you are constantly getting warnings and or temp bans send him an email as well. He is a great guy in that regard. I'd buy him a beer if I lived near NY heh.
Well, I'd say posting on this particular forum is a hobby of mine that I enjoy more than most others therefore my post count is higher than theirs even if they've been on the site longer than I.
If you're implying that somehow I am or have been a moderator I can say for sure that has never been the case. MikeB knows better than to put someone like me in charge, I'd be dropping the banhammer on all sorts of folks who irritated me the wrong way. (power is not something I deal well with)
And I will agree that temp bans are probably inevitable, collected a few of them myself over the years, but permanant bans really are easily avoided if you just keep things civil.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The moderating on this site is terrible.
I've been posting on forums for years and this is the only site that I've gotten a temp ban on of any kind.
The mods are a little trigger happy that's for sure.
But let's face it, it's their website. If they want a politcally correct, saccharine and censored forum it's their perogative.
Wait...Was that baiting? Or trolling? Damn, I can't even tell.....
This is the only place on the goddamned internet that applies equal punishment to trolls as the ones who stand up to them.
There are a few outspoken and vehemently aggressive ones who spread about negativity on a certain title -cough swtor-, who are seemingly free to do as they please. God forbid someone should call them out on their bullshit without getting a warning from some Dudley-do-Wrong with no discernment.
What's hilarious about the whole thing is that the troll in question's initial derailment has not been deleted, and left to marr the thread in question.
The bias is apparent.
Calling them out is essentially taking the bait and exacerbates the whole issue, which is basically what the troll wants. If you feel another user is trolling or otherwise in violation of our RoC, report their post or thread and allow us to handle it. If you have reported these posts or threads and feel they haven't been dealt with in a timely or satisfactory manner, feel free to get in touch with me and I'll be glad to take a look at it. Thanks!
the moderation isn't bad, but it is substantial. I don't mind a temp ban from time to time, if i or someone says something a bit mean spirited. The biggest problem this site has is...baiting. Example: I started playing EvE online 4 years ago and PvP sucks. It is completely unbalanced, etc. The CCP staff is actively promoting lies and deceit..etc." this is a flame starting type of post.
When you ask for intelligent responses? They report you. I often wonder if the mod that gets the "report" actually reads the spirit of the post. I personally have chosen to simply ignore these posts now, or address them appropriately on EvE's official forums.
However, coming to a neutral site, making wild proclamations about a game, then stating it as fact...followed by strawman tactics..quickly followed by "report" for abuse...is not only gutless by the poster, but using poor objective analysis by the moderator.
Disagreeing is great, it drives collective reasoning. Crying wolf should only work once..then not again. I find that to be a common problem on the internet, most people don't feel responsible for their mouth. If you wouldn't say it in a group of people in a venue with like minded people...why would you post it? Because they are anonymous and know that if they get banned...so what.
If they said some of the things they posted, the proctor/administrator of the meeting would glare at them or tell them to leave...with embarrasement and a sense of remorse to follow.
Luckily anonymity allows people to post nonsense without a sense of accountability.
Editing for flow and spelling.
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die
Hiatus: EvE
Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh)
Interested in: better games in general
Odd that some of us have been here 'forever' and seem to have no problems? I can count the number of times I've been subject to moderation on one hand.....if that hand belonged to an armless person!
It's no different than in RL....treat others with respect, much like you'd like to be treated...and don't allow yourself to be baited...there are quite a few people here who enjoy trying to do nothing more.
I cant even begin to call out the problem with the moderation on this forum.
I ran a 10k user forum on a coldfusion platform, nothing compared to mmorpg.com but I understand it's hard, so I do applaud those that put in the work and time to try and keep the forum in check, but there is ONE problem that has ran off quite a few regulars from these forums over the years: the one glaring problem that I, and quite a few members I knew from this forum since 2004 have noticed is the forum members playing the rules against others, baiting, and calling mods to their sideto defend their hate campaigns against a certain game.
Simple, look at the Mortal Online sub forum. The SAME users are allowed to constantly post "news" about a game, except for the most part it's more like rumors and false statements in their "hate campaign", as they love to call it in another forum where they actually boast and brag on how much they have hurt that game by abusing this website.
Now I tried MO, dont care much for it, but allowing the SAME members to spread lies, bait other members, and play the rules against every other forum member should be halted. It is the SAME few people over and over again, and many have noticed mods actually defend the culprits, whereas in 2006 a mod would've put an end to that QUICKLY and consolidated all the redundant hate threads then left the forum member with a warning. Their sarcastic posts continue to plague this forum, and when they are done with one game, they simply move to another section and CONTINUE to do the same thing. One can no longer come to these forums and discuss gaming, mmos, and good times without having to deal with the nuts who continue to purposely cause confrontation.
Good luck mods, i really wish you all the best.
looks like me and Cactusjack are on the same page and using 2 different game subforums as an example, that alone should be a red flag. Mods I hope you are reading this, I am 100% many others will agree with the baiting and playing the rules against people is a serious problem.
They purposely post some ridiculous post, then berate and report anyone who disagrees.
Wasn't there a rule on mmorpg.com back in the days that disallowed spreading falsified rumors?
This is a huge site, with a growing genre, I am sure you do not need the hate mongerers in order to stimulate forum activity. Please bring back decency to a certain degree to these forums.
If you'd like to PM me with some examples of what you are referring to I'd be glad to take a look into it. As for falsified rumors, sunshine is the best disinfectant. If a user is incorrect, refute their claims with the facts without insulting them and you should be fine. If the user is posting misinformation just to ruffle the feathers of others that is a different story. Again, if you'd like to discuss this matter in further detail please get in touch with me privately. Thanks!