Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
All the Worst - An Extremely Long Winded Review of TOR
This discussion has been closed.
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Comments
I'm sorry - "opinion" does not equal "truth"
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
Well, I know from my own personal experience, if I don't prefer a type of food a restaurant serves, I eat elsewhere, and I don't spend time ranting angrily at the gods for the fact that the restaurant exists in the first place, nor do I sit outside the restaurant with my face planted against the glass yelling at all the patrons of that restaurant to join me outside because I don't prefer the cuisine.
Just a thought.
Finally someone gets it!
I want to play a character, not a class!
I want options for completing a quest, not a golden brick road to the front door!
I want less pointless hacking and slashing through dozens of bad guys, and instead a few well thought out fights against powerful opponents. Fights that require planning and preparation and not just tab, kll, tab, kill, take a sip of Mt. Dew!
I want to be able to use any weapon that I come across, even if I can't even hit myself with it because my skill is too low!
I want to be able to use one lightsaber for an hour, switch to two lightsabers for another hour and finish up my third hour of gaming with a double bladed lightsaber.. all on the same character!
I want a red lightsaber without having to be a complete dick to every NPC I meet!
Options, options, options. Stop boxing me in with your ridiculous invisible walls!
I agree. A lot of folks here seem to think that if you complain at all about how the recent batch of games have been so similar to WoW, then you must just be a sandbox fan and thus your opinion is null and void.
I'm sorry, but this is just flat out wrong. There is SO MUCH that you can do with a developer driven (themepark) MMORPG, and yet almost all developers recently just make a carbon copy of WoW. It's frustrating, really it is.
If you want proof, just look at themepark games before WoW like EQ and DAoC. These games were both pretty different from each other and WoW. EQ had gameplay that was all about camping spawns of monsters with a group, and highly coordinated combat. DAoC was largely about RvR. They were both themeparks though.
Also, GW2 is trying to be different from WoW in many regards. True, it may crash and burn, we don't know. But at least it is TRYING to break the mold.
TL;DR - You don't have to be a sandbox game to not be a WoW clone.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
But SWTOR doesn't have Gnomes, Dwarves, Elves or Goblins...so it has that going for it
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
Excuse me while I go out and get some real food:
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
It's called evolution friend.
Gamers, consumers, we the people - 99% would not even touch a game where you had to grind mobs in a party like the old classic themeparks of EQ.
I hated EQ becasue I hated grinding - so I played UO because there really wasn't a grind - it was all about freedom and I liked that. What SWG did wrong was turn the "sandbox" into a grind for levels and gear. Total fail. EvE does the same thing, IMO, except what you are grinding is your own time... which I hate.
WoW came along and turned the grind of themeparks into something more interesting thanks to quests.
Quests changed the grind, solo-friendly changed the grind, there is no going back.
But now games like AoC and WAR and Rift with the same old quests as WoW, they are the grind now. The quests which were put into WoW to stop the grind became the grind.
TOR is evolving the quest based gameplay further by making it actually enjoyable and have a purpose due to the emphasis on story and high quality voice acting. They are covering up the grind with proper story and characters rather then walls of text. They are making it a movie instead of a book.
It's evolution.
What's the next evolution? Who knows!
While your final point is true, the OP is indeed a "I like sandbox, but I dislike themepark rant".
Just to support my opinion, I like well done games that I have fun with, regardless of the core design. I have played both sandboxes and themeparks, plus I have also played games somewhere in between.
Please don't muddy the fact of what this "review" is. He is not reviewing the game for what it was designed to be. He is reviewing the game for what he wants it to be. One is objective and the other is subjective, can you figure out which one is which?
When I read this and think about SWTOR, i get reminded of this simpsons episode:
MOE
Another Duff, Homer?
HOMER
Nah, it's Friday night, Moe. I want to try something special.
MOE
Sure, sure. (writes on a bottle) Here you go, Düff. From Sweden, huh huh.
HOMER
Goal! (takes a sip) Wait a minute, this is Duff!
Of course it's not going to change anything. The game is just a couple of weeks away. It IS a pointless angry rant. I'm angry that the Star Wars MMO that I will actually have time to play ends up being a carbon copy of a game that's been out for ten years.
I'm realistic. I know nothing's going to change at this stage in the development. Heck, even if I had posted this thread the very day they started writing code, it still wouldn't have changed anything. The corporation wants a safe bet, and they sure as hell coded a safe bet game. It's about as vanilla and generic as they come.
To the OP, I thoroughly enjoyed your post and wholeheartedly agree with your appraisal. Great stuff mate.
A valid opinion, you are definitely entitled to it.
Personally, it just feels too similar to WoW for me. I understand that for some people the richer questing will be enough, but for me it just wasn't. I don't despise the game, and I may still buy it, but it will be a short term home for me.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
To everybody out there wanting "next Gen MMO" go out your front door and engage in "real life" thats the next gen of mmo for you....
seriously these are games what do you want from them ?
i dont understand what you think the dev's of any game could put in to keep you all happy, if they made the totaly uber just like real life amazing 3D mmo you would still whine,
It's not a bad game for what it is, really.
I just think some people just get too wrapped up in wanting more sandbox games. Understandably, themeparks aren't your thing, but there's no need to try and trash every aspect of a game just because it doesn't follow what you want it to.
Plus, a big company like EA won't take as many risks in this economy. They have to go with formula's that have been proven. Sandbox MMORPG's haven't been proven, at least on a scale of what they consider a sucess.
Then again, I do see EA taking more risks than Activision.
Groovy.
Next-gen MMO is and will always be the MMO that suits all your individual wishes.
SWToR is a themepark and was never presented in a different way.
I liked it and I will have fun. Who doesn't like it just keep searching and trying. Good luck and have fun. Making big reviews about your personnal taste won't get you far, but nothing forbides it.
Lets see for how long you will be having fun...or maybe you are ok for giving money for a product that fades away in a couple of months, and you just say to yourself "hey its over but i had fun while it lasted and i think its worth the money". Im not saying that it will happen with SWTOR, i hope not, or even that your point of view is wrong, its just that your kind of take on the subject, your low expectation, is what makes the mmo game market continue its ride down, to obliteration.
People should be, must be, expecting something better/improved/new when a new title hits the market, or else where is the natural evolution of gaming? If the late 90s and early 2000 was made of gamers/developers like you, you would still be playing low end games, or SWTOR tetris way. You cant just shield the game by saying "the developer said how this game would be" or quoting you "(...) is a themepark and was never presented in a different way." , what kind of statement was that?? Where can i read the developer diary where it says "We are making a game where you can find the same elements you find in oher games of the genre, only this one is with lightsabers"?? Why cant i have something new and fresh so i could play the mmo of one of the franchises i love? Is that ok for new gamers? Maybe, but im not ok with it...i have played other mmos...i dont want it to be the same....
Labels need to learn to make MMORPGs for players that already have played other MMORPGs!!! We dont want it to be the same!!
Are you really hoping that this new mmo will be kept alive just for the love of the franchise? Maybe, they really have the fans numbers to back it up. But of those millions lovers, how many of them do play mmos?
Slowly and painfuly, labels will be put to sleep for their failed efforts to create a game that can make gamers happy. I can tell you that there are a few labels that will never see my money again, and that theres alot of ppl thinking like me.
If people want to continue supporting this level of evolution, please carry on.
Here. You can sum up a review of SWTOR pretty quickly:
SWTOR beta plays like WoW's beta. However, WoW at least had an engrossing and persistent world. SWTOR does not as it's instanced, boxed, and more linear.
That being said WoW's beta was in 2004 or so. SWTOR is in 2012. So imagine playing WoW's beta with lightsabers, having a more boxed in world, but playing that same beta nearly 8 years later.
And that's SWTOR for you. It is a horrible game when you really break things down. Bioware has proven they can't make an MMORPG on their own - and they can't copy one either. I mean if you copy a product , copy the product + that products improvements. Don't copy the original pre-release product.
I mean cars, phones, televisions, electronics, movies, - everything ADVANCES. It all is supposed to evolve. You build on what came before you, innovate where you can, and improve to make a better product. No way in hell do you release a product in 2012 that plays identical to the cloned product of 2004. That's a complete joke. And that's the problem with video games. WAY too many development crews out there - not enough talent. Since I'm being honest, Bioware hasn't really innovated anything since SWKOTOR. The still use the same story telling mechanics. Their games all feel damn near similar except they look different. At least ME2 sort of improved their combat engine ... but outside of that, Bioware is a very overrated game company.
At same time ME2 made dialogues regress, compared to i.e. Baldur's Gate. Sure there is VO, which appeal to many (I don't quite get that but whatever) yet at same time it reduced dialogue, to choosing "mood" of an answer from always 3 answers (good, neutral, bad). Really simplistic + regress.
Not to mention it kinda detach me from my character since it feel more like I am DIRECTING someone and not ACTING as someone. (character)
The big issue is that you think "people" should think the same way as you do, and to you it seems that it is the only right way to think. That's a very linear way of seeing things.
All I expect from a game is to have fun. I don't need "next-gen" graphics or "next-gen" content or whatever you think its right, to have fun, you know? Variability is such a nice thing about humans...
The life of this game will depend a lot of the endgame content and new addictions, and how long will this game last is more of a concern to developers than to me. I will play it (and pay) as long as I have fun. When I get tired, burned out, etc, I will move on. There are some promising titles on the line and if those fail my life will not go empty anyways...
Its not a matter of low expectations... its a matter of priorities in life and different looks of the same issue.
Is this the reason that so many games have trolls where people just spam chat saying, "This game sucks. Anyone that plays it is an idiot." I feel like I understand now.
Actually I don't understand at all. If you have such a problem with it, don't play it. Go play Skyrim, you can build whatever character you want in there. There are plenty of options for people who don't like the current state of MMORPG games. To complain about it is, in my opinion, a waste of time. This type of game will die off. And it will happen soon. It is already starting to happen. We have games coming out where combat is no longer just push hotkeys, we have games coming out with more and more dynamic content, and I'm sure each and every one of your points will end up in some game somewhere. Is it this game? No.
I feel for all the Sandbox people, I really do. They want something different, and no one has been ballsy enough to make it happen. This doesn't mean that you have to try to ruin a gaming experience for someone that does enjoy the genre of MMORPGs as they stand now.
I for one will be playing SWTOR. It seems to offer enough changes to bring me into the genre more. I hope you find something that you enjoy to play. Good luck.
Waiting for: GW2
I can agree with several of the points the OP has made; SWTOR is a conservative MMORPG. It does not break new ground in features or functionality, with the exception of added story content and voice acting.
HOWEVER....
Those two small additions make the game for me. I logged around 8-10 hours over the weekend diving into the beta, and I loved it. Did the combat and fetch quests remind me of every other fantasy MMORPG I've ever played? They sure did. However, the times I was working on class storylines, interacting with the NPCs and shaping my character on the light/dark side, I felt like I was really playing a MMORPG for the first time. What LOTRO set out to do has been implemented the right way in SWTOR, in terms of immersion into the character and storyline.
My largest fear is retention of the game, as once the storyline is done I'm not sure what will be compelling to keep going in the game. The PVP matches are generic and semi-fun, the dungeons are interesting but not compelling for too many return trips, and while I haven't tried crafting yet I can't imagine that is a major draw. Unless the storyline continues to grow for all classes at least once a quarter moving forward, I don't know that SWTOR stands out enough on the merit of its other features to thrive long-term.
Okay I read through your whole post BUT this just "killed" me. Seriously like SERIOUSLY?
Okay I know you preordered and have small kids, but you're just giving one more vote to all cookie-cutter themepark creators and investor to make MORE of them and never again do any innovative mmorpg.
Really just admit and deal with that truth.
Noone at EA or any company cares about your long and logical post. They do care about game sales and subscription numbers you'll increase both.
I am just at loss of words.
/facepalm
its not that no one has been balsy to make it. Its that the people who whine about it here dont actually pay to play those sandboxes that do come out. Why would any dev spend there money on a game u may get 500 k subs .
Eve online is considered by many to be an excellent well made game. Guess what they maybe have 500 ks subs thats the best sandbox out there. Why woulld any dev waster there money on a style of game no one plays.
Themeparks have more players and a much larger player base. Thats why themeparks mmos get the biggest budgets.
If the whiners who want a good sandbox actually supported a sandbox game maybe theyd get made until the sandbox fan supports there genre the way thempark fans do they will never get the game they want.
Actually they're the bad apples, the people with a shitty attitude that you try to weed OUT of your community.
SWTOR is the most addictive MMO I've come across...I consider myself lucky to have found the game I wanted to play.
My youtube MMO gaming channel