LOTRO, why hast thou forsaken me?

MyPreciousss · November 2011

I have always defended and praised LOTRO and I chose my avatar here accordingly, but now I can't deny it has evolved in a way that disappoints me. I can see a lot of negative posts about it on these forums recently and I understand them. So, I have been a lifetimer since 2008 and bought every expansion, but now some things are really annoying me to the point that I can't ignore them anymore and pretend LOTRO is a satisfying MMO:

- I had a spider for 3 years in Ettenmoors, Codemasters and other players never objected to its name for 3 years (and I was rank 10 so I played it long enough for people to notice its name) then after Turbine took over they changed my nickname without warning, I talked to a GM who had no clue, and he didn't say why it was changed but he told me that I must pay to have the nickname of my choice... I wrote to their support an articulate and polite mail to complain but I didn't receive an answer yet (already three weeks). Talk about customer service and lifetime membership respect... So they change your nickname without reason, don't give you the choice of a new nickname and force you to pay for a new one! Believe me when you RP with your character for 3 years it makes you angry.

- We were moved from European servers to American. Why can't we have European servers like any decent international company would provide? Even Alganon launched its European server some months ago. PvE in raids or PvP with 1k kilometer and 9k kilometers distant servers and feel the painful difference.

- We still can't mine resources or engage fight on our mount. We have to press a key to dismount. How difficult is it to dismount us automatically, seriously?

- I'm receiving Turbine posts 2 or 3 times a week and they are all about the Turbine Store and how X or Y item is 20% off this week. Don't expect anything cool about lore, Middle-earth or contents, just "bargains".

- 9 out of 10 loading screenshots are about Turbine Store too. I chose to play in Middle-earth, not in Turbine Store and I'm tired of them slapping my face and my deeds achievement with IN-YOUR-FACE Turbine Store proposal. Talk about immersion when you are about to enter an instance and you have your 20 % bargains popping on screen or when you look at your storage, deed, character, stat tabs and the store's logo is waiting for you.

- I accepted the liftetime offer thinking that LOTRO would stay P2P and would offer the same quality and reasonable speed of new content, which it did untill Moria as far as I remember. But then it went F2P, not what I paid for, riff-raff came in, and there was a large gap of contents release to the point that people quit because there was simply nothing more to do for one year and a half. Even me a solo slow leveller, raid hater and flower smeller finally had the best amor set, because I had nothing else left to do.

- Ettenmoors, seriously I have a rank 10 spider, I bought all protection buffs and temporary perks and I have been critically hit for 5000+ health runekeepers for ever; sometimes against one guy it goes like 2k 1k 3k crits in a few seconds, even guardians crit me at 1k and hunters at 2k or 3k very often. I'm really really really angry you can't imagine because it has been like this for years. Besides, I'm so tired of running around in good old Ettenmoors for 3 years now without any change to this place. And with ROI, instead of speeding up the immense grind to top monster level, they introduced PVP XP rewards for... PVE quests. Meanwhile you can see a lot of free people boasting top levels because they just butcher creeps in what has turned into the worst abattoir and unfair PvP zone in MMOs' history DESIGNED SO ON PURPOSE BY DEVELOPERS.

- Better servers maybe? When you click 10 times in a row and they tell you to slow down maybe it's time to buy a new server? Or when you pay your house maintenance bill for two weeks also two clicks and you get this message, really...

- People have been whining for ages for new character animations and more fluid combat. If you develop a game and people keep telling you a million times an aspect (that doesn't touch the core game) is bad and should be reworked for damn 4 years JUST BLOODY DO IT.

- Turbine Store again, it's not cosmetic at all, you can buy a lot of stuff like deed acceleration, pots who will improve your character's stats and ability to fight and recover, etc, etc. You definitely can have a better character if you pay and you reduce your grind time. I spent a lot of time grinding for my deeds and improve my stats so why should others be able to pay real money to have them done quickly? Some decisions are so wrong like skeleton horse during the first autumn festival that you could then buy with Turbine points if you failed to get it in the game after intense chest camping.

These are general complaints out of my head, I won't comment on ROI, others are doing it, I feel like Turbine has changed a lot, mayhaps influenced lately by Warner Bros (but F2P was Turbine's decision). Mayhaps, they are diverting too many resources to develop their unannounced MMO (Harry Potter?). But one sure thing is: LOTRO is technically lacking and their F2P is ugly, even if I still enjoy some parts of it (story, graphic, atmosphere) I won't buy their next expansion unless they improve the points I mentioned above because frustration is not what I'm looking for in a MMO.

DarkPony · November 2011

I can understand your gripes.

Should be an eye opener for advocates of the F2P model. I remember LOTRO being laureled for having the guts to change their revenue model and a host of games have followed suit since then. Now look at the mess V_V

Going F2P for a sub based game seems to be the first nail in the coffin afterall.

Sovrath · November 2011

I think some of your complaints aren't justified.

Some are like the whole "buy me in the turbine store" but still, they are a business and they want to make money and unfortunatley that is one way to do it.

But mining from your mount? I wouldn't allow players to mine from their mounts either. ever.. I do agree that an auto dismount should be in place.

Your name? Well, it doesn't matter how long you've had your name, once a develper finds out that a player has a name that goes against their rules they can change it. I've seen this complain in games for years. "I had x name and had it since the game came out and now they make me change it". Well, there are thousands upon thousands of people who try these games and I imagine it's difficult to know every single name that is being made and whether it breaks their rules. They just found yours out. I wonder what that nickname was?

The store thing I can, for the most part agree as I feel It's very tacky to be receiving so may "buy buy buy e-mail. but again they are a business trying to make money and they want their players to know their specials. I realize players are cheap (so many of them are so cheap) but they want to make money somehow and they want to entice their f2p players to at least buy something.

As far as buying power in the stores, at this point nothing is the store is a "must have" for power. There are diminishing returns for higher stats and one can do end game content without using tomes. The items that mitigate grind are always a staple for f2p games so there is no surprise there.

I would actually agree with you on that one as I am a staunch believer that if one player has to follow a certain route to progress their character others should do. Make it the same all across the board. But some don't believe in that so nothing one can do about that.

LOTRO is far more tacky now with the store I think that's the least of their worries. Creating compelling content is a bigger issues.

Oh, and maybe they like their animations. I can't say they are huge deal breakers. They aren't amazing but I seriouisly wonder what animations are "amazing" to all the players who complain about the animations.

Except for the walking animations. They just look horrid.

MyPreciousss · November 2011

Originally posted by Sovrath
I think some of your complaints aren't justified.

Some are like the whole "buy me in the turbine store" but still, they are a business and they want to make money and unfortunatley that is one way to do it.

As far as I know Lotro was doing ok, DDO wasn't and Turbine introduced F2P transition from this AAA P2P and was successful. Then they decided to apply the same pattern to LOTRO which wasn't dying in the first place but was maybe increasing slowly with a solid fanbase, but we will never know because Turbine never released any figure. Warner Bros after merging said Turbine actually gathered 15 % of all MMOs' population which is impossible to verify for simple reasons (other companies not revealing their own figures, eg). So my grip isn't that they are doing money of course, my grip is they have a in-your-face pay-to-win F2P store which wasn't justified in the first place except to make MORE money than their P2P version. As a lifetimer I feel betrayed by their decision and the way they crush my immersion with their store.

But mining from your mount? I wouldn't allow players to mine from their mounts either. ever.. I do agree that an auto dismount should be in place.

Sorry if I was unclear, I meant of course we need an automatic dismount when we attack or mine, mining from horse would be ludicrous. But attacking from horse not so in Rohan And the point is how long will we have to wait for such little things that annoyed us for 4 years?

Your name? Well, it doesn't matter how long you've had your name, once a develper finds out that a player has a name that goes against their rules they can change it. I've seen this complain in games for years. "I had x name and had it since the game came out and now they make me change it". Well, there are thousands upon thousands of people who try these games and I imagine it's difficult to know every single name that is being made and whether it breaks their rules. They just found yours out. I wonder what that nickname was?

Actually I have played 3 years with the same name on a RP server and neither players nor GMs ever objected to it and suddenly with Turbine taking over they changed it. I won't tell you my nickname for obvious reasons but believe me as a LOTRO fan I know better than creating stupid names on a RP server where I bought a lifetime membership. And my anger here is they never sent me any warning in or out game (but I receive store bargains so often), the GM had no clue why it was changed, couldn't or wouldn't check, and I couldn't choose the forced new nickname and they wanted to have me pay for a name change. Why in these cases not offer the possibility on the launch screen to rename FREELY your character?

The store thing I can, for the most part agree as I feel It's very tacky to be receiving so may "buy buy buy e-mail. but again they are a business trying to make money and they want their players to know their specials. I realize players are cheap (so many of them are so cheap) but they want to make money somehow and they want to entice their f2p players to at least buy something.

See above why a lifetimer who trusted them in the first place shouldn't appreciate at all what they are doing and how they are doing it.

As far as buying power in the stores, at this point nothing is the store is a "must have" for power. There are diminishing returns for higher stats and one can do end game content without using tomes. The items that mitigate grind are always a staple for f2p games so there is no surprise there.

Still, people buy time and power where I had to grind for hours before F2P was introduced. This is why a lot of people think Store items are unacceptable because real money gives you an advantage and we aren't all playing the same game anymore. You are posting a lot in these forums and must read a lot about F2P and P2P, do I really need to explain the basics to you or are you just defending LOTRO as if they were better or different and their Store items a good thing for a MMO?

I would actually agree with you on that one as I am a staunch believer that if one player has to follow a certain route to progress their character others should do. Make it the same all across the board. But some don't believe in that so nothing one can do about that.

LOTRO is far more tacky now with the store I think that's the least of their worries. Creating compelling content is a bigger issues.

Oh, and maybe they like their animations. I can't say they are huge deal breakers. They aren't amazing but I seriouisly wonder what animations are "amazing" to all the players who complain about the animations.

Except for the walking animations. They just look horrid.

Sovrath · November 2011

Originally posted by MyPreciousss

Originally posted by Sovrath

I think some of your complaints aren't justified.

Some are like the whole "buy me in the turbine store" but still, they are a business and they want to make money and unfortunatley that is one way to do it.

As far as I know Lotro was doing ok, DDO wasn't and Turbine introduced F2P transition from this AAA P2P and was successful. Then they decided to apply the same pattern to LOTRO which wasn't dying in the first place but was maybe increasing slowly with a solid fanbase, but we will never know because Turbine never released any figure. Warner Bros after merging said Turbine actually gathered 15 % of all MMOs' population which is impossible to verify for simple reasons (other companies not revealing their own figures, eg). So my grip isn't that they are doing money of course, my grip is they have a in-your-face pay-to-win F2P store which wasn't justified in the first place except to make MORE money than their P2P version. As a lifetimer I feel betrayed by their decision and the way they crush my immersion with their store.

But mining from your mount? I wouldn't allow players to mine from their mounts either. ever.. I do agree that an auto dismount should be in place.

Sorry if I was unclear, I meant of course we need an automatic dismount when we attack or mine, mining from horse would be ludicrous. But attacking from horse not so in Rohan And the point is how long will we have to wait for such little things that annoyed us for 4 years?

Your name? Well, it doesn't matter how long you've had your name, once a develper finds out that a player has a name that goes against their rules they can change it. I've seen this complain in games for years. "I had x name and had it since the game came out and now they make me change it". Well, there are thousands upon thousands of people who try these games and I imagine it's difficult to know every single name that is being made and whether it breaks their rules. They just found yours out. I wonder what that nickname was?

Actually I have played 3 years with the same name on a RP server and neither players nor GMs ever objected to it and suddenly with Turbine taking over they changed it. I won't tell you my nickname for obvious reasons but believe me as a LOTRO fan I know better than creating stupid names on a RP server where I bought a lifetime membership. And my anger here is they never sent me any warning in or out game (but I receive store bargains so often), the GM had no clue why it was changed, couldn't or wouldn't check, and I couldn't choose the forced new nickname and they wanted to have me pay for a name change. Why in these cases not offer the possibility on the launch screen to rename FREELY your character?

The store thing I can, for the most part agree as I feel It's very tacky to be receiving so may "buy buy buy e-mail. but again they are a business trying to make money and they want their players to know their specials. I realize players are cheap (so many of them are so cheap) but they want to make money somehow and they want to entice their f2p players to at least buy something.

See above why a lifetimer who trusted them in the first place shouldn't appreciate at all what they are doing and how they are doing it.

As far as buying power in the stores, at this point nothing is the store is a "must have" for power. There are diminishing returns for higher stats and one can do end game content without using tomes. The items that mitigate grind are always a staple for f2p games so there is no surprise there.

Still, people buy time and power where I had to grind for hours before F2P was introduced. This is why a lot of people think Store items are unacceptable because real money gives you an advantage and we aren't all playing the same game anymore. You are posting a lot in these forums and must read a lot about F2P and P2P, do I really need to explain the basics to you or are you just defending LOTRO as if they were better or different and their Store items a good thing for a MMO?

I would actually agree with you on that one as I am a staunch believer that if one player has to follow a certain route to progress their character others should do. Make it the same all across the board. But some don't believe in that so nothing one can do about that.

LOTRO is far more tacky now with the store I think that's the least of their worries. Creating compelling content is a bigger issues.

Oh, and maybe they like their animations. I can't say they are huge deal breakers. They aren't amazing but I seriouisly wonder what animations are "amazing" to all the players who complain about the animations.

Except for the walking animations. They just look horrid.

Yes, you are correct, that is why they turned LOTRO into f2p. They saw how well DDO did and decided to see if lightning would strike twice. Which it did. I agree the store always being in one's face feels tacky.

As far as your name goes, I can't tell if it was a name done in bad taste or one that was a character in the Lord of the Rings universe. It seems you were a codemasters player so maybe codemasters wasn't upholding a rule that Turbine wanted to uphold. I sort of doubt, from your post, that it would be in bad taste but we just don't know. I'll assume it wasn't and assume it was a character from the books. Which makes sense because most game companies don't allow players to use names of their npc's or future npc's.

I'm kind of with you on the allowing players to bypass progression but at the end of the day it really isn't a big deal. At least in this game.

I'm not sure how Turbine decides whether they should do something or not. Most games don't have mounted combat so it's not like they are in a rush for that. The dismounting when one comes to a node seems like a no brainer but maybe there is a reason they don't do it. Or maybe they just don't think it's important. For me, as it's the only way I make money, I find it mildly annoying.

As far as you last statment, I know perfectly well what the store brings and what f2p usually brings. I would be the first person to speak out against buying power and I just don't see the items in the store being that big a deal. As a point of note, I've been playing this game since one of the earlier closed betas so I have a good feel for the arc that is LOTRO development. Besdies, you get Turbine points through playing or monthly if you even bought one thing. Just plunk those points into your character if you wish. It pretty much doesn't cost anything if you don't want it to.

I'm more pissed about them taking Trolls off the road and turning my Old Forst into a fenced in field.

[Deleted User] · November 2011

The user and all related content has been deleted.

mikahr · November 2011

Originally posted by I_Return
http://boston.bbb.org/

You are not complaining about what happened to you spider, but the support turbine is now lacking in after wb took over.

Codemaster chagend names same as Turbine does. Somebody reported your name, name got under naming policy procedure, was not in compliance and got changed. Nothing new here. Happened lots of times before. I dont care about names, as long as they are not insulting/racist/perverse but some people do.

And Codemasters/Turbine dont change names (unless heavily in contradiction with TOS) on there own uless someone reports it.

And since you dont want to tell the name i could only assume it could pi** someone off.

[Deleted User] · November 2011

The user and all related content has been deleted.

mikahr · November 2011

Originally posted by I_Return

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by I_Return

http://boston.bbb.org/

You are not complaining about what happened to you spider, but the support turbine is now lacking in after wb took over.

Codemaster chagend names same as Turbine does. Somebody reported your name, name got under naming policy procedure, was not in compliance and got changed. Nothing new here. Happened lots of times before. I dont care about names, as long as they are not insulting/racist/perverse but some people do.

And Codemasters/Turbine dont change names (unless heavily in contradiction with TOS) on there own uless someone reports it.

And since you dont want to tell the name i could only assume it could pi** someone off.

not disputing the name change. Just the manner it was handled.

1. Did he recieve any e-mail, warning his name would change ?

2. Did the company do everything possible to make the change smooth as possible

3. His name was that for years, what was the reason for the change.

4. Why hasn't support been able to help him.

And again regardless of how someone found his name offensive in the game, it WAS someone in game that reported him, and he has every right to be heard and be granted a professional and curtious audence by a Turbine rep on the matter.

Hidinbg behind a the ToS or CoC is basically becoming any and all excuse to simply ignore players.

Right now the Gm's . forum mmoderators and even the head of theiir support think it is the wild west and they can do what they will... The BBB helps us as players stack the complaints up until they can't be ignored by Turbine internally and a change would have to be made. This an American company, and they are held to a standard of professionalism, which they are failing at horribly.

Uhm, you are aware that it has been like this form launch of the game?

And you are aware that Codemasters forum was much more "loose" than Turbines?

Seems you are not aware of some things.

MyPreciousss · November 2011

Originally posted by I_Return

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by I_Return

http://boston.bbb.org/

You are not complaining about what happened to you spider, but the support turbine is now lacking in after wb took over.

Codemaster chagend names same as Turbine does. Somebody reported your name, name got under naming policy procedure, was not in compliance and got changed. Nothing new here. Happened lots of times before. I dont care about names, as long as they are not insulting/racist/perverse but some people do.

And Codemasters/Turbine dont change names (unless heavily in contradiction with TOS) on there own uless someone reports it.

And since you dont want to tell the name i could only assume it could pi** someone off.

not disputing the name change. Just the manner it was handled.

1. Did he recieve any e-mail, warning his name would change ?

2. Did the company do everything possible to make the change smooth as possible

3. His name was that for years, what was the reason for the change.

4. Why hasn't support been able to help him.

And again regardless of how someone found his name offensive in the game, it WAS someone in game that reported him, and he has every right to be heard and be granted a professional and curtious audence by a Turbine rep on the matter.

Hidinbg behind a the ToS or CoC is basically becoming any and all excuse to simply ignore players.

Right now the Gm's . forum mmoderators and even the head of theiir support think it is the wild west and they can do what they will... The BBB helps us as players stack the complaints up until they can't be ignored by Turbine internally and a change would have to be made. This an American company, and they are held to a standard of professionalism, which they are failing at horribly.

Thank you for understanding what I actually wrote and not blaming me on the top of it like other posters :-) What really annoys me is the way they did it, showing they don't care at all, as you summarized it and that I haven't received any answer from them for weeks now. I just wrote *once* in all my MMOs' history to a support team and this was this one case. The support team is exactly here for that: look at individual situations, id est 3 year playing, lifetime membership, no complaint before, so they shouldn't have done it the way they did or at least write me even a BS line to explain why they did it. And if you care about RP it's just depressing to have your name replaced by a horrible one that you must pay for to have it replaced again.

The sad thing is I'm neither ranting out of the blue because of the spider tragedy nor jaded about LOTRO, I think the overall game really changed and it isn't the same game I started with and paid a liftime sub for, as a proof of confidence and enjoyment.

Now, as I'm questing through Rise of Isengard, the recent unpleasant discoveries are the possibility to solo even Fellowship quests and how unknown maps are already uncovered (with your key "M") so you can go directly to all cities and field camps. So bye-bye exploration, one of the reasons you enjoy massive worlds in my opinion.

And I'm tired too of the random system of battle, when the enemy or you, evade, parry, miss randomly (I know it's the infamous RP "dice system" blabla). I can for instance stun a guy but he will still evade my next blow, how is it possible? Or I have crows parrying or blocking my sword and shield... Yeah really? A bird parrying my sword with its beak and claws?

Torgrim · November 2011

My toon name got changed 1 year after LOTRO lauched, his name was Rurik why it was changed was they added new NPCs and one of them was called Rurik.

Might have been something similar situation for you.

Ceridith · November 2011

Originally posted by Torgrim
My toon name got changed 1 year after LOTRO lauched, his name was Rurik why it was changed was they added new NPCs and one of them was called Rurik.

Might have been something similar situation for you.

It's still a pretty sleezy move on Turbine's part to demand that he have to pay to re-choose his character name after he did nothing wrong. If this was the actual case, he couldn't have known that the name would be used in the future. They should allow him to re-choose the name for free.

Force-changing the character's name and then demanding payment to change the name is racketeering. Other MMOs would allow you to re-choose the name free of charge.

Torgrim · November 2011

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by Torgrim

My toon name got changed 1 year after LOTRO lauched, his name was Rurik why it was changed was they added new NPCs and one of them was called Rurik.

Might have been something similar situation for you.

It's still a pretty sleezy move on Turbine's part to demand that he have to pay to re-choose his character name after he did nothing wrong. If this was the actual case, he couldn't have known that the name would be used in the future. They should allow him to re-choose the name for free.

Force-changing the character's name and then demanding payment to change the name is racketeering. Other MMOs would allow you to re-choose the name free of charge.

Pay for a forced rename is weird yes, I got a temp name and got hold on a GM and told him the story he just changed the new name I wanted, but that was Codemaster GMs.

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