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they ever gonna put collision damage in this game?

JakdstripperJakdstripper Member RarePosts: 2,399

i tried this game a year or more ago and wile i liked it i was quite shocked when i realized there is no collision damage. i spent the whole first 2 days trying very carefully to navigate my ship as to not hit anything only to find out you can go right through planets.....i mean i dont think every pebble floating in space should down your ship, but big ships/asteroids/stations should do something.

is there any plans at all to put any sort of collision damage ingame?

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Comments

  • Johnie-MarzJohnie-Marz Member UncommonPosts: 865

    Actually I don't think you go "Through" planets in EVE

    I think it is more akin to going "Under" them, because you are in Hyper Space at the time.

  • WorstluckWorstluck Member Posts: 1,269

    I highly doubt it.  The entire game would need to be changed.  The possibilty for griefing would be insane.  If there was just collision with asteriods, plantets and such, that would be fine, but it wouldn't make sense to just have that.

     

    Imagine having collision with this fleet!

     

    http://i.imgur.com/5BaB3.jpg

    image

  • jvxmtgjvxmtg Member Posts: 371

    Originally posted by Jakdstripper

    i tried this game a year or more ago and wile i liked it i was quite shocked when i realized there is no collision damage. i spent the whole first 2 days trying very carefully to navigate my ship as to not hit anything only to find out you can go right through planets.....i mean i dont think every pebble floating in space should down your ship, but big ships/asteroids/stations should do something.

    is there any plans at all to put any sort of collision damage ingame?

    Yeah definitely, so as soon as you leave a station where it dumps you with everyone else, you need to zone back in for repairs.

     

    There's a saying, dont fix something that's not broken...I think EvE has it right from the start.


    Ready for GW2!!!
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  • picommanderpicommander Member UncommonPosts: 256

    Some years ago I tried EVE and found flying through stations a showstopper, ridiculous! Is this still the case? Also the 3-D environment was a fake (try flying a looping to see what I mean). People who grew up with classics like ELITE have a hard time to swallow this crap. Something the good old Elite also didn't have but what I expect from a modern space-game are some means of physics, at least a diluted user friendly version as in JGE classic. EVE just don't feel like "flying" in space. It's some sort of platform game with a space theme.

  • WorstluckWorstluck Member Posts: 1,269

    Originally posted by picommander

    Some years ago I tried EVE and found flying through stations a showstopper, ridiculous! Is this still the case? Also the 3-D environment was a fake (try flying a looping to see what I mean). People who grew up with classics like ELITE have a hard time to swallow this crap. Something the good old Elite also didn't have but what I expect from a modern space-game are some means of physics, at least a diluted user friendly version as in JGE classic. EVE just don't feel like "flying" in space. It's some sort of platform game with a space theme.

     

    Eve is not a space or flight sim.  It's never tried to be one.  Don't compare some games that have nothing to do with each other >.<

    image

  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Member UncommonPosts: 3,649

    Originally posted by picommander

    Some years ago I tried EVE and found flying through stations a showstopper, ridiculous! Is this still the case? Also the 3-D environment was a fake (try flying a looping to see what I mean). People who grew up with classics like ELITE have a hard time to swallow this crap. Something the good old Elite also didn't have but what I expect from a modern space-game are some means of physics, at least a diluted user friendly version as in JGE classic. EVE just don't feel like "flying" in space. It's some sort of platform game with a space theme.

    You do not fly through objects at a normal speed.  You collide.  There is no damage, but there is collision.

    You can fly a loop.

    I...uh... yeah... um... what?

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001
    I played elite, yes great in it's time but physics with wire gfx mm. Based on you comments you rather obviously do not play eve or understand it's complexity. Simply put it is the best space game ever made by far. If you could immerse yourself in elite but not eve then maybe you are just getting old :)

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182

    Originally posted by Bladestrom

    I played elite, yes great in it's time but physics with wire gfx mm. Based on you comments you rather obviously do not play eve or understand it's complexity. Simply put it is the best space game ever made by far. If you could immerse yourself in elite but not eve then maybe you are just getting old :)

    Personally i prefer the X-series over EVE, but each to their own.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001
    I used to like x, but now that I have got to grips with eve x seems so empty and simplistic.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001
    X still has edge on gfx though (although less realistic feeling) IMO ofc

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • picommanderpicommander Member UncommonPosts: 256

    Originally posted by Bladestrom

    I played elite, yes great in it's time but physics with wire gfx mm. Based on you comments you rather obviously do not play eve or understand it's complexity. Simply put it is the best space game ever made by far. If you could immerse yourself in elite but not eve then maybe you are just getting old :)

    Maybe you just grabbed a few words of my post, otherwise you would know that I played EVE "some years" ago. Not very long though, after a few month I had enough. Complexity? Sure its a good thing as it is in chess or go for instance. But not this sort of artificial complexity for complexities sake as I found in EVE. It's just a blind and pointless overkill of way too many skills to hide the true emptiness behind these sort of "complexity". If you don't expect a decent space game but like economy simulations, that's where EVE really shines and has indead complexity. Not my cup of tea though, I'm still waiting for a *real* space game.

    What I read about the possibility to collide (also with stations?) is either a relativ new feature or my memories got scrumbled. But yes, you're right. I'm getting old...

  • MinscMinsc Member UncommonPosts: 1,333

    Originally posted by picommander

    Originally posted by Bladestrom

    I played elite, yes great in it's time but physics with wire gfx mm. Based on you comments you rather obviously do not play eve or understand it's complexity. Simply put it is the best space game ever made by far. If you could immerse yourself in elite but not eve then maybe you are just getting old :)

    Maybe you just grabbed a few words of my post, otherwise you would know that I played EVE "some years" ago. Not very long though, after a few month I had enough. Complexity? Sure its a good thing as it is in chess or go for instance. But not this sort of artificial complexity for complexities sake as I found in EVE. It's just a blind and pointless overkill of way too many skills to hide the true emptiness behind these sort of "complexity". If you don't expect a decent space game but like economy simulations, that's where EVE really shines and has indead complexity. Not my cup of tea though, I'm still waiting for a *real* space game.

    What I read about the possibility to collide (also with stations?) is either a relativ new feature or my memories got scrumbled. But yes, you're right. I'm getting old...

    They had very specific reasons for not using newtonian physics in the game. They are fine for a single player game that really only has to deal with a dozen objects or so but when you may suddenly need to deal with THOUSANDS, there's no supercomputer in the world that could handle that....none. CCP had to make design decisions based on the nature of an MMO.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,379

    Originally posted by picommander

    Some years ago I tried EVE and found flying through stations a showstopper, ridiculous! Is this still the case? Also the 3-D environment was a fake (try flying a looping to see what I mean). People who grew up with classics like ELITE have a hard time to swallow this crap. Something the good old Elite also didn't have but what I expect from a modern space-game are some means of physics, at least a diluted user friendly version as in JGE classic. EVE just don't feel like "flying" in space. It's some sort of platform game with a space theme.

    If you stop trying to think/compare EVE to a space flight simulator and realize that mechanically it is more like a naval fleet combat simulation then the mechanics and what not make more sense

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  • picommanderpicommander Member UncommonPosts: 256

    Yes I understand all this very well and that's the reason why meanwhile I'm basically done with MMORPGs. There are just too many compromises to be done for technical reasons and that's why I don't know of a single MMORPG (maybe a few non RPG MMOs like war simulations) where PVP is perfectly balanced so that you won't have any whiners (please proove me wrong if you can). Online chess is the perfect PVP experience IMO, despite the occasional cheater using a chess engine. But that's quite another story and not topic of this side.

    I really should say good by now to all, it was fun for a while but now its time to move on. :) And btw... getting older is not *that* bad. :D

  • cosycosy Member UncommonPosts: 3,228
    Originally posted by Jakdstripper


    is there any plans at all to put any sort of collision damage ingame?

     

    that feature was removed long time ago

    BestSigEver :P
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  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910


    Originally posted by Minsc

    Originally posted by picommander

    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    I played elite, yes great in it's time but physics with wire gfx mm. Based on you comments you rather obviously do not play eve or understand it's complexity. Simply put it is the best space game ever made by far. If you could immerse yourself in elite but not eve then maybe you are just getting old :)
    Maybe you just grabbed a few words of my post, otherwise you would know that I played EVE "some years" ago. Not very long though, after a few month I had enough. Complexity? Sure its a good thing as it is in chess or go for instance. But not this sort of artificial complexity for complexities sake as I found in EVE. It's just a blind and pointless overkill of way too many skills to hide the true emptiness behind these sort of "complexity". If you don't expect a decent space game but like economy simulations, that's where EVE really shines and has indead complexity. Not my cup of tea though, I'm still waiting for a *real* space game.
    What I read about the possibility to collide (also with stations?) is either a relativ new feature or my memories got scrumbled. But yes, you're right. I'm getting old...


    They had very specific reasons for not using newtonian physics in the game. They are fine for a single player game that really only has to deal with a dozen objects or so but when you may suddenly need to deal with THOUSANDS, there's no supercomputer in the world that could handle that....none. CCP had to make design decisions based on the nature of an MMO.



    There's three or four computers on the planet that could do it. Several even. They probably cost more than CCP's grossed in their entire existence, but they do exist and they could do the physics calculations.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • kovahkovah Member UncommonPosts: 695

    As a person who hopes/desires for space travel at light speed I also recognize the near impossibility of it.

    Sure, we could eventually design "shields" that allow us to deflect most space rocks but we have 0 clue about the randomness of asteroids/comets/etc that move through space and the chance of hitting one while traveling at "warp speed" is silly.  Collision damage means you're dead.  Makes perfect sense that CCP excluded it from the game, imo.

  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001

    Originally posted by kovah

    As a person who hopes/desires for space travel at light speed I also recognize the near impossibility of it.

    Sure, we could eventually design "shields" that allow us to deflect most space rocks but we have 0 clue about the randomness of asteroids/comets/etc that move through space and the chance of hitting one while traveling at "warp speed" is silly.  Collision damage means you're dead.  Makes perfect sense that CCP excluded it from the game, imo.

    There is a theory that recent experiments that accidently pushed particles fast that the speed of light (through solid rock incidently ) could have been particles jumping dimension so yup seems perfectly feasable when thousands of years in the future.  Besides we have the advantage of a proper hull rather than the wire graphics elite had :P

     

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Member UncommonPosts: 3,649

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    If you stop trying to think/compare EVE to a space flight simulator and realize that mechanically it is more like a naval fleet combat simulation then the mechanics and what not make more sense

    Yeah, I do not get why people do not get this.  Trying to explain it to people that do not get it generally does not work though.

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

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  • GarkanGarkan Member Posts: 552

    Originally posted by VirusDancer

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    If you stop trying to think/compare EVE to a space flight simulator and realize that mechanically it is more like a naval fleet combat simulation then the mechanics and what not make more sense

    Yeah, I do not get why people do not get this.  Trying to explain it to people that do not get it generally does not work though.

    A lot of people dont seem to get that a ship hundreds of meters long isnt piloted from a cockpit either, the smallest ships are a lot like the Normandy SR-1 from Mass Effect with a CiC run by several crew members. The pod pilot just replaces the command crew.

    Currently playing:

    EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)

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    (Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
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  • mrcalhoumrcalhou Member UncommonPosts: 1,444

    Originally posted by Garkan

    Originally posted by VirusDancer


    Originally posted by Kyleran

    If you stop trying to think/compare EVE to a space flight simulator and realize that mechanically it is more like a naval fleet combat simulation then the mechanics and what not make more sense

    Yeah, I do not get why people do not get this.  Trying to explain it to people that do not get it generally does not work though.

    A lot of people dont seem to get that a ship hundreds of meters long isnt piloted from a cockpit either, the smallest ships are a lot like the Normandy SR-1 from Mass Effect with a CiC run by several crew members. The pod pilot just replaces the command crew.

    When I think about it that way, then I start feeling bad about all the support crew that die when I decide to do something I know will get me destroyed.

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  • TeiloTeilo Member Posts: 284

    Originally posted by Garkan

    Originally posted by VirusDancer


    Originally posted by Kyleran

    If you stop trying to think/compare EVE to a space flight simulator and realize that mechanically it is more like a naval fleet combat simulation then the mechanics and what not make more sense

    Yeah, I do not get why people do not get this.  Trying to explain it to people that do not get it generally does not work though.

    A lot of people dont seem to get that a ship hundreds of meters long isnt piloted from a cockpit either, the smallest ships are a lot like the Normandy SR-1 from Mass Effect with a CiC run by several crew members. The pod pilot just replaces the command crew.

    Well I think that's a failure of design to be frank - the ships (at least the smaller ones, which are still supposed to be pretty huge) don't really sell the size that well. The really big ships do look massive, but some of the smaller ones really look more like single-seat fighters than something the size of the Normandy.

  • YalexyYalexy Member UncommonPosts: 1,058


    Originally posted by Teilo

    Originally posted by Garkan

    Originally posted by VirusDancer


    Originally posted by Kyleran
    If you stop trying to think/compare EVE to a space flight simulator and realize that mechanically it is more like a naval fleet combat simulation then the mechanics and what not make more sense
    Yeah, I do not get why people do not get this.  Trying to explain it to people that do not get it generally does not work though.


    A lot of people dont seem to get that a ship hundreds of meters long isnt piloted from a cockpit either, the smallest ships are a lot like the Normandy SR-1 from Mass Effect with a CiC run by several crew members. The pod pilot just replaces the command crew.


    Well I think that's a failure of design to be frank - the ships (at least the smaller ones, which are still supposed to be pretty huge) don't really sell the size that well. The really big ships do look massive, but some of the smaller ones really look more like single-seat fighters than something the size of the Normandy.

    The frigates in EvE Online are 40+ meters in size, just like a frigate these days. And take a look at the weapons... Small guns (Autocannons/Railguns) shoot 75-150mm rounds.

    If you read the background-story of EvE, then you'll notice, that those ships had full crew, just like naval ships of today. With the Jove-technique of the PODs the crew got obsolete, as a single person could now control the ship only with his mind, but the ships stayed the size they are.

    But with all this background-story out of the way, let's talk about technology and the reson why collision-detection for weapons got turned off. In the beginning of EvE, there was collision-detection and you could hide behind object to not get shot at, this was quickly removed tho, as no server can handle this stress with hundreds of ships slugging it out.
    The collision-detection for asteroids, stations, planets, ships, etc is still active tho, but you take no damage and only bounce off because of the shields surrounding your ship.

    Warping has no collision-detection, as this form of travelling works like a wormhole, bending room and light, and for the sake of making things easy, you warp in straight lines, not warping around the objects.

    So... EvE is totally working as intended and you can even explain the mechanics, with the exception of guns not having collision-detection because of technical issues.

  • WorstluckWorstluck Member Posts: 1,269

    Originally posted by mrcalhou

    Originally posted by Garkan


    Originally posted by VirusDancer


    Originally posted by Kyleran

    If you stop trying to think/compare EVE to a space flight simulator and realize that mechanically it is more like a naval fleet combat simulation then the mechanics and what not make more sense

    Yeah, I do not get why people do not get this.  Trying to explain it to people that do not get it generally does not work though.

    A lot of people dont seem to get that a ship hundreds of meters long isnt piloted from a cockpit either, the smallest ships are a lot like the Normandy SR-1 from Mass Effect with a CiC run by several crew members. The pod pilot just replaces the command crew.

    When I think about it that way, then I start feeling bad about all the support crew that die when I decide to do something I know will get me destroyed.

     

    I guess.  But I am Amarr.  Most of my crew is made up of Minmatar slaves and random Gallente riff-raff I pay slave wages to.  It's no loss :D

     

    Just think, these are some approximate numbers of crew members for ships (based on some original design schematics):

    Cruiser: 400-800

    Battlecruiser: 1000-2000

    Battleship: 5000-7000

    Dread/Carrier: 20,000+

     

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