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Holy Santa Claus S***!

hookiedupu2hookiedupu2 Member Posts: 19

A few friends and I joined a game a few months ago because of the promise of military techniques and good FPS combat styles.  As it stood out, the only "military" vehicle the game had was a dune buggy with a machine gun and the only FPS element the game had was manual aiming.  Everything else was "faceroll keyboard, hit iWin button, rinse, repeat" favoring shotguns over all other weapons and forcing all combat to be at <20m range.  So we got to talking...

 

"Wouldn't it be great if there was an MMO where squad based combat worked flawlessly?"  Yes, there's PlanetSide.

"Wouldn't it be great if you could actually fly in a wave of bombers to level a hot LZ, shell the hell out of that LZ, and then hot drop a squad of guys to secure the perimeter and form a rally point?"  Yes, we do that in PlanetSide.

"Wouldn't it be great if that squad was effective, and that you could use a sniper rifle to put someone down without the crappy PlanetSide aiming method? Wouldn't it be great if aircraft, like the Reaver, could effectively level tanks and other enemy aircraft without 60000000 missiles?  Wouldn't it be great if guns were actually scary?"  Yeah, PlanetSide dropped the ball on that.

 

For those of us who are tired of hitting an enemy infantry man with 6 Reaver missiles or hitting a gun with 200 bullets from a SMG and watching them laugh it off, I think we've found our new game: Line of Defense.

 

Hell.  Yes.  I.  Am.  Stoked.

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Comments

  • twodayslatetwodayslate Member Posts: 724

    Looks like it has some promise, but then there's the developer.  This Derek Smart guy isn't known for putting out fun games.

    Google him, he's got a funny history.

  • hookiedupu2hookiedupu2 Member Posts: 19

    I don't care what he's known for and what he isn't. It's what he does with this game that'll make or break my views of him.

    I personally don't give a fat crap about what he did or didn't do, but rather what he does and will do. Bill Gates was a college dropout, for example.

    All I wanna do it sit with a sniper rifle and blow people's faces off, or fly. Or both. Give me those options and I'll be a happy camper.

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,173

    ... SANTA?!



  • twodayslatetwodayslate Member Posts: 724

    Originally posted by hookiedupu2

    I don't care what he's known for and what he isn't. It's what he does with this game that'll make or break my views of him.

    I personally don't give a fat crap about what he did or didn't do, but rather what he does and will do. Bill Gates was a college dropout, for example.

    All I wanna do it sit with a sniper rifle and blow people's faces off, or fly. Or both. Give me those options and I'll be a happy camper.

    Hardly the same thing, precedence plays a big part in the development of MMOs.  Particularly where this guy is concerned, he tends to want nothing to do with playerbase input.

  • goblagobla Member UncommonPosts: 1,412

    Originally posted by twodayslate

    Originally posted by hookiedupu2

    I don't care what he's known for and what he isn't. It's what he does with this game that'll make or break my views of him.

    I personally don't give a fat crap about what he did or didn't do, but rather what he does and will do. Bill Gates was a college dropout, for example.

    All I wanna do it sit with a sniper rifle and blow people's faces off, or fly. Or both. Give me those options and I'll be a happy camper.

    Hardly the same thing, precedence plays a big part in the development of MMOs.  Particularly where this guy is concerned, he tends to want nothing to do with playerbase input.

    Not always a bad attitude.

    We are the bunny.
    Resistance is futile.
    ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
    ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
    (")("),,(")("),(")(")

  • warmaster670warmaster670 Member Posts: 1,384

    Originally posted by gobla

    Originally posted by twodayslate


    Originally posted by hookiedupu2

    I don't care what he's known for and what he isn't. It's what he does with this game that'll make or break my views of him.

    I personally don't give a fat crap about what he did or didn't do, but rather what he does and will do. Bill Gates was a college dropout, for example.

    All I wanna do it sit with a sniper rifle and blow people's faces off, or fly. Or both. Give me those options and I'll be a happy camper.

    Hardly the same thing, precedence plays a big part in the development of MMOs.  Particularly where this guy is concerned, he tends to want nothing to do with playerbase input.

    Not always a bad attitude.

    This, often times player input is worthless, since players will whine about anything whether or not its good or not, and often times have no idea what would work in a game.

    Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
    Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.

  • hookiedupu2hookiedupu2 Member Posts: 19

    Originally posted by warmaster670

    Originally posted by gobla


    Originally posted by twodayslate


    Originally posted by hookiedupu2

    I don't care what he's known for and what he isn't. It's what he does with this game that'll make or break my views of him.

    I personally don't give a fat crap about what he did or didn't do, but rather what he does and will do. Bill Gates was a college dropout, for example.

    All I wanna do it sit with a sniper rifle and blow people's faces off, or fly. Or both. Give me those options and I'll be a happy camper.

    Hardly the same thing, precedence plays a big part in the development of MMOs.  Particularly where this guy is concerned, he tends to want nothing to do with playerbase input.

    Not always a bad attitude.

    This, often times player input is worthless, since players will whine about anything whether or not its good or not, and often times have no idea what would work in a game.

    My thoughts exactly.  I wish more video game companies would grow a pair and tell the whiny minority to stuff it.

  • dsmartdsmart Member UncommonPosts: 386

    There is a wealth of information on the game, feedback to player inquires etc on the official forums.

    If you have a specific question you don't see there or in the FAQ, just ask and I will do my best to answer it.

    For the record: I never have - and never will - make games that everyone and their mother-in-law want to play. I cater to specific group of players who like the games that I develop. Considering how many games I've developed over the years - and the fact that I'm still in business and have made a very decent living from it - I'm perfectly happy catering to that group and could care less about what everyone else is doing. I develop games that I see myself playing.

    Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living.
    If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
    ...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.

  • GrumpyMel2GrumpyMel2 Member Posts: 1,832

    I'm definately keeping my eye on this game. Alot of the concepts sound great. It's all going to come to down to execution....and we won't really be able to judge that until we get our hands on it.

    My past experience with this sort of game comes from WWII-Online. Which, for the record, I think is a really well done game. However, thier engine is pretty dated....and I didn't think they really offered enough to justify a monthly sub.

    I'd recomend anyone that is interested in MMOFPS style play, check them out.

    Right now I'm cautiously optimistic about LOD.

  • hookiedupu2hookiedupu2 Member Posts: 19

    Originally posted by dsmart

    For the record: I never have - and never will - make games that everyone and their mother-in-law want to play. I cater to specific group of players who like the games that I develop. Considering how many games I've developed over the years - and the fact that I'm still in business and have made a very decent living from it - I'm perfectly happy catering to that group and could care less about what everyone else is doing. I develop games that I see myself playing.

    And this is why I'm following this game closely.  If a dev doesn't enjoy what they make, they're friggin' doing it wrong.

  • dsmartdsmart Member UncommonPosts: 386

    Those of you interested in this, when you get the chance, please download the demo for my 2009 game, All Aspect Warfare. You will need the full download and the patch. Play that game (use cheat mode!) and you will see that I've actually done a game like this before. All I'm doing with LOD is building a similar - but more accessible and more forgiving game - using similar and better ideas, but with a new engine and more fleshed out environment (one of the biggest complaints with AAW).

    Try it and see. You can also pick up the full game on Steam.

    Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living.
    If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
    ...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.

  • hookiedupu2hookiedupu2 Member Posts: 19

    I downloaded the demo and had to put it away after 15 minutes of frustration.  The flight system was too clunky for me (keyboard support? = nope).  Will this flight system be made more user friendly for keyboard/mouse users?

     

    It also seemed a bit clunky on the shooter aspect too.  Swapping weapons took a few minutes to get used to and seemed slow compared to most MMOs (felt more real though!).  What do you have planned for the shooter aspect of the game? 

  • dsmartdsmart Member UncommonPosts: 386

    Not sure what you're talking about, keyboard flight controls work just fine.

    Just because weapon swapping takes time, doesn't make it clunky. There is a specific timer in each weapon which is the time it takes to switch a weapon, reload etc. Even reload has a timer. It is no different than if there was an animation (like other games) which would also result in the same timer delay.

    Apart from being a totally different type of game, LOD uses a totally different game engine. So things work differently. But if you think that a delay in weapon switching, ammo reloading etc is clunky, then I guess you won't be playing it because we have that in LOD as well.

    I don't expect the game to appeal to everyone. That isn't and never was my goal. LOD is a re-imagination of the AAW premise but in a different setting, new engine, new dynamics, new player experience etc. For one thing, it is nowhere as hardcore (and at times frustrating) as AAW.

    If you want a simplistic fps MMO with no innovation or instrinc gameplay, there are many out there to choose from. LOD may not be for you. But if you can get into the Beta (due out later this year), then I think all your questions will be answered.

    Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living.
    If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
    ...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.

  • hookiedupu2hookiedupu2 Member Posts: 19

    The only thing "not for me" is your attitude, dude.  

     

    The keyboard controls were clunky because I had to put both hands on my keyboard to steer and roll the aircraft.  I couldn't use the mouse to roll, bank, or turn the aircraft, I had to use the arrow keys.  It was kind of lame.

     

    I think I'm done hyping this game.  The combat of the demo was sub par and actually non-realistic at best, and (to quote my girlfriend) "special olympic gunfight?" at worst.  And the piloting resulted in 15 minutes of confusion, frustration, "AH HA I figured it out!" *uninistall*

     

    Going back to waiting for PS: Next.  I hear they removed BFRs :D

  • dsmartdsmart Member UncommonPosts: 386

    You said keyboard controls didn't work. That was obviously false.

    The control scheme works just fine - at least for those who bought and played the game. Just because it wasn't done the way (mouse view + keyboard controls) you want it, doesn't make it bad or clunky. In fact, that control scheme is pretty standard.  Especially for a PC (not a console port) game developed in 2007 (!) and released in 2009.

    But your opinion is fine; after all, that's what choices are about.

    LOD has a completely different control scheme in which you do use the mouse to control the view camera and keyboard to steer/thrust.

    As I said before, they are completely different games and engines. The only point of my pointing you to it, was to show that we have in fact developed games with massive scope, high-end features etc and that LOD is not the first. That was in response to previous comments. I never asked you to base your opinions of LOD on that of AAW. What would be the point of that, when the latter is not even a sequel, let alone derived from the same game engines?

    I am allowed to defend my game and the way I do things. If you don't like it, that is something that you have to deal with.

    If you're waiting for PSN, why aren't you playing PS at this point?

    Gaming is about choices. Go with what you like and move away from what you don't. What is so difficult about that? I never said I was out to please everyone all the time. I have absolutely no interest in that because for every 1 person who doesn't like my games (or me) there are hundreds who do. It is those people that I care about and they are ones who make what I do possible because they buy my games.

     

    Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living.
    If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
    ...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.

  • KilraneKilrane Member UncommonPosts: 322

    Originally posted by dsmart

    I don't expect the game to appeal to everyone.

    With a review like the one on Gamespot.com....I don't think your aim is to appeal to many gamers in the first place.  After reading the review I think I'll pass on the demo, and your new MMO.

     

    http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/allaspectwarfare/review.html

  • dsmartdsmart Member UncommonPosts: 386

    Gamespot? Seriously?

    http://www.armchairgeneral.com/all-aspect-warfare-pc-game-review.htm

    http://www.avault.com/reviews/pc/aaw-pc-review/

    http://www.outofeight.info/2009/08/all-aspect-warfare-review.html

    http://www.incgamers.com/Reviews/967/All-Aspect-Warfare-Review-PC

    ..and that's not including the ones from print magazines.

    The fact is, you can't base a game on not only a bad review, but on a review period. Reviews are subjective and based on the reviewers opinion. And judging from the fact that I decided to actually revisit the game premise and concept by coming out with a bigger and better MMO version, should tell you that the game did just fine in terms of sales. Which of course is the most important aspect.

    Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living.
    If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
    ...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.

  • skeaserskeaser Member RarePosts: 4,179

    Originally posted by dsmart

    Gamespot? Seriously?

    http://www.avault.com/reviews/pc/aaw-pc-review/ 2 out of 5

    http://www.outofeight.info/2009/08/all-aspect-warfare-review.html 6 out of 8

    http://www.armchairgeneral.com/all-aspect-warfare-pc-game-review.htm 80%

    http://www.incgamers.com/Reviews/967/All-Aspect-Warfare-Review-PC 7 out of 10

    ..and that's not including the ones from print magazines.

    The fact is, you can't base a game on not only a bad review, but on a review period. Reviews are subjective and based on the reviewers opinion. And judging from the fact that I decided to actually revisit the game premise and concept by coming out with a bigger and better MMO version, should tell you that the game did just fine in terms of sales. Which of course is the most important aspect.

    I doubt I'm the only one who hasn't heard of any of those sites. As for your print reviews, PC Gamer UK, Nov 2009, pg 100 gave your game a 52%, not exactly high marks. So that's Gamespot and PC Gamer, two well known sources, with low reviews and your one own sourced low review, then 3 decent/good reviews from unknown places. Out of 20 people on metacritic AAW got a 2.5 out of 10.

    Edit: If it did so well in sales, why did so few people review it?

    Sig so that badges don't eat my posts.


  • DLangleyDLangley Member Posts: 1,407

    Please try to avoid baiting each other into arguements and namecalling. Thanks.

  • dsmartdsmart Member UncommonPosts: 386

    Sales have nothing to do with reviews. Unless you're paying for it.

    And it is well known (unless you're using it to attack someone - as in this case) that review scores are meaningless and have no correlation to sales either.

    Many - many - well reviewed games are rubbish, tank at retail and the devs/pubs are long gone.

    Gamers who like a certain type of game, will buy it - regardless of a review or meaningless score.

    Stick to facts if you want to sling mud.

    Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living.
    If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
    ...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.

  • skeaserskeaser Member RarePosts: 4,179

    Originally posted by dsmart

    Sales have nothing to do with reviews. Unless you're paying for it.

    I'm not talking publisher reviews, I'm talking customer reviews. There just isn't much opinion out there at all from the customers, who are normally very vocal people, which leads me to believe either your audience is a very odd niche and keeps to themselves or there aren't many of them.

    Sig so that badges don't eat my posts.


  • YalexyYalexy Member UncommonPosts: 1,058

    Oh look... a large scale Unreal Tournament CTF game.

    Seriously... only 256 players for each map?... and then they have the guts to call this "non-instanced" ? :lmfao:

    And no crafting? No ressources to fight over? And to top it all... a cash-shop?

    Sorry, but this allready sounds god awful by just reading the features list and FAQ on the official page.

    This ain't no MMORPG, it's just a massive online shooter.

  • PratzStrikePratzStrike Member Posts: 8

    Here we are, so many years from the pile of fail that was Battlecruiser 3000, and Derek Smart is still trying to act like a big-name game developer. I like you, Derek, in a way - you're honest, and you make what you want, but you have never, in the decade or more that you've been making video games, understood the concept of making the interface accessible to the player.

  • CopenhagenCopenhagen Member UncommonPosts: 57

    Well, if Planetside 2 disappoints, maybe this will produce success.

  • KostKost Member CommonPosts: 1,975

    I read the OP and actually got fairly excited.

    Went to checkout the game, realized that 3000AD was the studio, and my interest dropped to zero. I'm not interested in any game where Mr. Smart is involved. After all the things I've seen from him over the years I refuse to contribute to him taking home a paycheque, regardless of whether or not the game turns out to be the best thing since sliced bread.

    I personally consider the reputation of a single individual to be a major factor when deciding to purchase a title. By no means am I singling out 3000AD or Mr. Smart either, I've shrugged off numerous games after a member of the staff lost my respect or the game went downhill after certain individuals took up the reigns.

    Once bitten, twice shy.

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