It gets worse. I actually just dropped $50 on the new expansion a few days ago. Underwhelming doesn't even begin to describe it.
They're slowly but surely been making it more and more into a McMMO. This last expansion is very likely the last money I'll ever give Turbine unless they do a rather drastic change of course.
Though I don't like many of the things that Turbine has done to LOTRO it might be worth noting that one doesn't have to pay $50 for the expansion one can pay $30 in case they are on the fence about the whole thing.
Also, I wouldn't call revealing the entire map a "nerf". It's not even close to a nerf.
In my opinion it's a very bad decision, yes. Nerf? no. Some of the best discoveries I've made in the game were not revealed by the map but "oh well".
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
The thing all you complainers are missing or choosing to ignore is that these changes have been made because that's what the majority of players want. There were originally masses of quests requiring a group and people were simply bypassing them in favour of the soloable ones. So over the past couple of years, the devs have been systematically reworking the areas to make them more solo friendly. The quest with the crows is part of the Book 1 epic story line, the whole of which is now soloable if you wish but the instances have the option of a harder version for groups. It's your choice.
At the end of the day, Turbine have responded to customer feedback with these changes and must be doing something right, as it has more players now than at any time. It been going since early 2007 and yet has never had to close any servers, There's not many other mmo's can boast that.
No matter what is changed by the devs for the players, you will always get a grp that finds those changes goes against their playing style, however you have to appeal to the majority.
However there are plenty more F2P MMO's out there if the changes are so abhorrent to the minority grps.
I am paying a monthly fee. You can still do that. Its called VIP. This means they must compete with P2P AAA-titles if they want people to continue to pay. It makes no sense at all to pay a montly fee and still have to accept some of the limitations that are typical for F2P games. Or that the game and its content more and more changes and is designed to make people feel they need to use the cash shop.
The thing all you complainers are missing or choosing to ignore is that these changes have been made because that's what the majority of players want. There were originally masses of quests requiring a group and people were simply bypassing them in favour of the soloable ones. So over the past couple of years, the devs have been systematically reworking the areas to make them more solo friendly. The quest with the crows is part of the Book 1 epic story line, the whole of which is now soloable if you wish but the instances have the option of a harder version for groups. It's your choice.
At the end of the day, Turbine have responded to customer feedback with these changes and must be doing something right, as it has more players now than at any time. It been going since early 2007 and yet has never had to close any servers, There's not many other mmo's can boast that.
No matter what is changed by the devs for the players, you will always get a grp that finds those changes goes against their playing style, however you have to appeal to the majority.
However there are plenty more F2P MMO's out there if the changes are so abhorrent to the minority grps.
I am paying a monthly fee. You can still do that. Its called VIP. This means they must compete with P2P AAA-titles if they want people to continue to pay. It makes no sense at all to pay a montly fee and still have to accept some of the limitations that are typical for F2P games. Or that the game and its content more and more changes and is designed to make people feel they need to use the cash shop.
I am subbed now for 3 months and i start wondering what to do with the 500 SC i get monthly with my sub, i see no use to spend it in the shop on anything meaningfull yet...
On top of that, the content is still harder then most other MMO's, with most classes its still possible to die if you solo challenging areas... which is nearly impossible with most other MMO's..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Exploration is a niche playing style, and the maps have in no way destroyed it.
For one thing, the maps are so vague (and ugly) that there' still plenty to find that's not on the map. Seriously, look at, say, the goblin camp outside of Golbin Town. On the world map, it's about a dozen identical tents on a parchment background. It's a lot more (to explore) in-game. Even close up maps like Annuminas don't show all there is to show by any means.
For another, you can still explore a place in real life even if a hundred cartographers have already set it on paper. I don't see why MMOs should be any different. You don't have to boldly go where no man has gone before to go exploring. Consider Bree. Even with one of the game's most detailed maps and most trodden roads, it's still great fun to go peeking down every back alley and into every store.
Now that I've considered the subject rationally, I'll tell you that you all sound like a bunch of grumpy old dwarves.
hate to say it... But that map was revealed long ago... Some guy named Tolkien drew it all on paper and made it public knowledge... He just spoiled it all...
Seriously... If that is all it takes for you then there is not much advanture left any were for you.
OP really phrased why LotRo was ONCE one of my favourite MMO's and is now on my some-what badlist.
At launch it was awesome, but since 2 years or so, it's becoming more and more a kiddy-game where everything is laid out before you. No mor epxloring. Crafting..? Well, you can do it, but quest rewards are already enough. Ans social play..? Why bother with that when you can do up to 65 every thing solo?
Sometimes I wonder if the devs still know the meaning of MMO, as well as I bother with a large group of players if they know what the RPG part means. Soon we'll all play on-line single-player games
Oki you really failed to play the game, lol.
At launch it was asweome:You mad? all the stats and classes was broken, hunters couldnt get items, they had forgotten AGI after level 30, half the hunters best items was level 30 items. Champions didnt work at all. Tanks couldnt do aggro. Burglars was the most important of all, rather take 3 than any other dps because of fellowship moves.
What they have done since Moria, which is IMO the best expansion any MMO have ever had, and I've played MMO since 97' so i have had my share of expansions. They started to change stats around so it actually made sense. Now imo the stats works really really good, for the first time in LOTRO stats for your char is perfetct! last good changes came with Isengard.
Crafting..? Well, you can do it, but quest rewards are already enough: Crafting has always been good in Lotro, start, moria, mirkwood, crafting items was among supirior items, items u didnt upgrade. In Isengard the crafting is half/half, somewhat a fail.
And that last part "well, you can do it, but quest rewards are already enough" ... Yes you can also get an education in life and do what you like, but working at McDonald's is already enough. Why dont you enjoy the prestige it is to get the very best for you class, insted of settle for less? thats my biggest issue in Lotro, people are so often unaware of their class posibilities and they settle for less insted of maximizing ... i dont get it .. does that mean all these people dont care how their IRL is too? whatever its good enouhg... insted of doing whats really best for them..
The thing all you complainers are missing or choosing to ignore is that these changes have been made because that's what the majority of players want. There were originally masses of quests requiring a group and people were simply bypassing them in favour of the soloable ones. So over the past couple of years, the devs have been systematically reworking the areas to make them more solo friendly. The quest with the crows is part of the Book 1 epic story line, the whole of which is now soloable if you wish but the instances have the option of a harder version for groups. It's your choice.
At the end of the day, Turbine have responded to customer feedback with these changes and must be doing something right, as it has more players now than at any time. It been going since early 2007 and yet has never had to close any servers, There's not many other mmo's can boast that.
No matter what is changed by the devs for the players, you will always get a grp that finds those changes goes against their playing style, however you have to appeal to the majority.
However there are plenty more F2P MMO's out there if the changes are so abhorrent to the minority grps.
I am paying a monthly fee. You can still do that. Its called VIP. This means they must compete with P2P AAA-titles if they want people to continue to pay. It makes no sense at all to pay a montly fee and still have to accept some of the limitations that are typical for F2P games. Or that the game and its content more and more changes and is designed to make people feel they need to use the cash shop.
I am subbed now for 3 months and i start wondering what to do with the 500 SC i get monthly with my sub, i see no use to spend it in the shop on anything meaningfull yet...
On top of that, the content is still harder then most other MMO's, with most classes its still possible to die if you solo challenging areas... which is nearly impossible with most other MMO's..
It depends on your goals and your playstyle. If your goal is fastest possible progress and to build the most powerful character possible you will have to spend a lot of tp in the shop. Even if you are a VIP.
Of course power and morale potions that are shop only and on separate cooldown makes you more powerful if you use them all the time when you play. And there are other potions and scrolls that boosts your character. And stat tomes.
There is a scroll that you must buy if you want to remove your relics from a Li.
Then of course you will have to grind a lot when you improve your character. Slayer deeds that you need to do to get virtues. Reputation grind. Grind skirmishes to get marks that you need to get scrolls that you need for your Li:s. And in game you will always be reminded that you can buy boosts in the shop that makes the grind less painful. Or that you can buy upgrade-scrolls directly and you dont have to grind at all to get them.
A min maxing powergamer will certainly be tempted or in some cases feel that he/she must spend money/tp on all of that. Specially if the friends in game already do it.
But even if you are no powergamer and even if you decide to spend nothing on boosts and upgrades you will always be reminded that you can. Its hard to forget that option. And , at least IMO, it makes you feel the grind much more. When you know its possible to go to the shop and spend some tp to reduce or skip that grind.
I mean when I played EQ and grinded AA the grind was never very painful. And I had fun most of the time. Had it been possible to go to a cash shop buy AA points for real money it would have ruined the fun for me. And grinding would have been a terrible pain... The fact that you know a option like that exists is the real problem. When everyone must do the same work/effort there is no such problem. And grinding to improve your character can even be fun. Thats the reason I dont like cash shops. And the problems related to that cant be avoided in Lotro if you are a ViP.
In real P2P games you cant buy advantages or boosts(unless you cheat). And you will never have to think about things like that. Or spend any more money than the monthly fee.
What is up with this, "I can see the map, now exploring sucks!" - Erhm tbh, i was in Africa this summer, i knew how the whole land looks like, i have maps, i have google earth, yet i had fun exporing Africa.
Maybe your right, should send a complaint to the goverment for nerfing the exploring of the world because they made maps, would have been much better if i ended up in North Korea insted of Africa, that would really have made it so much more enjoyable for my exploring geane!
- The map is shown, yes. The locations, no ... you only know "Hey if i run up north i guess there is a forest.. map shows trees" then u go.... Duh then im not going i already know there are trees up there! nothing to explore just boring trees.
LOTRO's maps closely resemble Tolkien's maps. I don't understand the issue...
In fact, it makes more sense that the map is revealed. The elves, men, dwarves, and hobbits of middle-earth had a literate society. The world you explore in-game was largely known to Middle-Earth's inhabitants in the same way that you roughly know where the United Kingdom is. It would make no sense for you - a resourceful adventurer - to not have access to maps which would be somewhat common in such a literate society.
It gets worse. I actually just dropped $50 on the new expansion a few days ago. Underwhelming doesn't even begin to describe it.
They're slowly but surely been making it more and more into a McMMO. This last expansion is very likely the last money I'll ever give Turbine unless they do a rather drastic change of course.
I felt the same way! The new expansion is a total joke and a farce!
It's a TOTAL SOLO fest! Maybe like 2 or 3 fellowship quests in total.
Worse, that the whole expac is On Rails! You are forced to stick to the new Epic Book Quest line, to unlock one questhub to the next.
I barely made it to level68, before I just stopped logging in altogether... bored out of my skull with this joke of an expansion!
It's a TOTAL SOLO fest! Maybe like 2 or 3 fellowship quests in total.
If this part is true, it might encourage me to try the game again. By a large margin, the thing I dislike most about MMOs is forced grouping for content or worse, progress. I loved CoH for the fact that grouping was almost entirely optional, and quests scaled to group size. If only some MMOs could learn to do this with their endgame...
It's a TOTAL SOLO fest! Maybe like 2 or 3 fellowship quests in total.
If this part is true, it might encourage me to try the game again. By a large margin, the thing I dislike most about MMOs is forced grouping for content or worse, progress. I loved CoH for the fact that grouping was almost entirely optional, and quests scaled to group size. If only some MMOs could learn to do this with their endgame...
No one is FORCING you to do group quests.
If I want to play alone ONLY, I go play free solo RPG's (much better games and better graphics, like upcoming Skyrim)!
The magic word is CHOICE!
Fact is! This expac doesn't offer anything at all for people that like to group up with others! As litterly everthing is Soloable in this expac!
Comments
Though I don't like many of the things that Turbine has done to LOTRO it might be worth noting that one doesn't have to pay $50 for the expansion one can pay $30 in case they are on the fence about the whole thing.
Also, I wouldn't call revealing the entire map a "nerf". It's not even close to a nerf.
In my opinion it's a very bad decision, yes. Nerf? no. Some of the best discoveries I've made in the game were not revealed by the map but "oh well".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I am paying a monthly fee. You can still do that. Its called VIP. This means they must compete with P2P AAA-titles if they want people to continue to pay. It makes no sense at all to pay a montly fee and still have to accept some of the limitations that are typical for F2P games. Or that the game and its content more and more changes and is designed to make people feel they need to use the cash shop.
I am subbed now for 3 months and i start wondering what to do with the 500 SC i get monthly with my sub, i see no use to spend it in the shop on anything meaningfull yet...
On top of that, the content is still harder then most other MMO's, with most classes its still possible to die if you solo challenging areas... which is nearly impossible with most other MMO's..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Exploration is a niche playing style, and the maps have in no way destroyed it.
For one thing, the maps are so vague (and ugly) that there' still plenty to find that's not on the map. Seriously, look at, say, the goblin camp outside of Golbin Town. On the world map, it's about a dozen identical tents on a parchment background. It's a lot more (to explore) in-game. Even close up maps like Annuminas don't show all there is to show by any means.
For another, you can still explore a place in real life even if a hundred cartographers have already set it on paper. I don't see why MMOs should be any different. You don't have to boldly go where no man has gone before to go exploring. Consider Bree. Even with one of the game's most detailed maps and most trodden roads, it's still great fun to go peeking down every back alley and into every store.
Now that I've considered the subject rationally, I'll tell you that you all sound like a bunch of grumpy old dwarves.
didnt nerf the game, yust made explorers look through 100% of the map instead of only the parts they think they can reach
https://ashesofcreation.com/r/Y4U3PQCASUPJ5SED
hate to say it... But that map was revealed long ago... Some guy named Tolkien drew it all on paper and made it public knowledge... He just spoiled it all...
Seriously... If that is all it takes for you then there is not much advanture left any were for you.
This have been a good conversation
I agree, OP. The fact the maps are ALL entirely revealed are a big let down. It's just wrong.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Oki you really failed to play the game, lol.
At launch it was asweome: You mad? all the stats and classes was broken, hunters couldnt get items, they had forgotten AGI after level 30, half the hunters best items was level 30 items. Champions didnt work at all. Tanks couldnt do aggro. Burglars was the most important of all, rather take 3 than any other dps because of fellowship moves.
What they have done since Moria, which is IMO the best expansion any MMO have ever had, and I've played MMO since 97' so i have had my share of expansions. They started to change stats around so it actually made sense. Now imo the stats works really really good, for the first time in LOTRO stats for your char is perfetct! last good changes came with Isengard.
Crafting..? Well, you can do it, but quest rewards are already enough: Crafting has always been good in Lotro, start, moria, mirkwood, crafting items was among supirior items, items u didnt upgrade. In Isengard the crafting is half/half, somewhat a fail.
And that last part "well, you can do it, but quest rewards are already enough" ... Yes you can also get an education in life and do what you like, but working at McDonald's is already enough. Why dont you enjoy the prestige it is to get the very best for you class, insted of settle for less? thats my biggest issue in Lotro, people are so often unaware of their class posibilities and they settle for less insted of maximizing ... i dont get it .. does that mean all these people dont care how their IRL is too? whatever its good enouhg... insted of doing whats really best for them..
It depends on your goals and your playstyle. If your goal is fastest possible progress and to build the most powerful character possible you will have to spend a lot of tp in the shop. Even if you are a VIP.
Of course power and morale potions that are shop only and on separate cooldown makes you more powerful if you use them all the time when you play. And there are other potions and scrolls that boosts your character. And stat tomes.
There is a scroll that you must buy if you want to remove your relics from a Li.
Then of course you will have to grind a lot when you improve your character. Slayer deeds that you need to do to get virtues. Reputation grind. Grind skirmishes to get marks that you need to get scrolls that you need for your Li:s. And in game you will always be reminded that you can buy boosts in the shop that makes the grind less painful. Or that you can buy upgrade-scrolls directly and you dont have to grind at all to get them.
A min maxing powergamer will certainly be tempted or in some cases feel that he/she must spend money/tp on all of that. Specially if the friends in game already do it.
But even if you are no powergamer and even if you decide to spend nothing on boosts and upgrades you will always be reminded that you can. Its hard to forget that option. And , at least IMO, it makes you feel the grind much more. When you know its possible to go to the shop and spend some tp to reduce or skip that grind.
I mean when I played EQ and grinded AA the grind was never very painful. And I had fun most of the time. Had it been possible to go to a cash shop buy AA points for real money it would have ruined the fun for me. And grinding would have been a terrible pain... The fact that you know a option like that exists is the real problem. When everyone must do the same work/effort there is no such problem. And grinding to improve your character can even be fun. Thats the reason I dont like cash shops. And the problems related to that cant be avoided in Lotro if you are a ViP.
In real P2P games you cant buy advantages or boosts(unless you cheat). And you will never have to think about things like that. Or spend any more money than the monthly fee.
What is up with this, "I can see the map, now exploring sucks!" - Erhm tbh, i was in Africa this summer, i knew how the whole land looks like, i have maps, i have google earth, yet i had fun exporing Africa.
Maybe your right, should send a complaint to the goverment for nerfing the exploring of the world because they made maps, would have been much better if i ended up in North Korea insted of Africa, that would really have made it so much more enjoyable for my exploring geane!
- The map is shown, yes. The locations, no ... you only know "Hey if i run up north i guess there is a forest.. map shows trees" then u go.... Duh then im not going i already know there are trees up there! nothing to explore just boring trees.
Seriously...
LOTRO's maps closely resemble Tolkien's maps. I don't understand the issue...
In fact, it makes more sense that the map is revealed. The elves, men, dwarves, and hobbits of middle-earth had a literate society. The world you explore in-game was largely known to Middle-Earth's inhabitants in the same way that you roughly know where the United Kingdom is. It would make no sense for you - a resourceful adventurer - to not have access to maps which would be somewhat common in such a literate society.
I felt the same way! The new expansion is a total joke and a farce!
It's a TOTAL SOLO fest! Maybe like 2 or 3 fellowship quests in total.
Worse, that the whole expac is On Rails! You are forced to stick to the new Epic Book Quest line, to unlock one questhub to the next.
I barely made it to level68, before I just stopped logging in altogether... bored out of my skull with this joke of an expansion!
What a waste of money it was!
If this part is true, it might encourage me to try the game again. By a large margin, the thing I dislike most about MMOs is forced grouping for content or worse, progress. I loved CoH for the fact that grouping was almost entirely optional, and quests scaled to group size. If only some MMOs could learn to do this with their endgame...
No one is FORCING you to do group quests.
If I want to play alone ONLY, I go play free solo RPG's (much better games and better graphics, like upcoming Skyrim)!
The magic word is CHOICE!
Fact is! This expac doesn't offer anything at all for people that like to group up with others! As litterly everthing is Soloable in this expac!
There are tons of reasons to play an MMO and strictly solo, you can find many of the on this very site.
However, your idea of choice is 'group up or don't do it' where mine is 'do it with a group or do it solo'. I like my idea better.
This is such a minor thing for most, but knowing every major landmark before you see them is a let down for exploration.
Best map for exploration IMO is the fog of war style from Guild Wars 1, it's pretty much like RTS maps, absolutely loved every nook and cranny of it.
You are not forced to do Fellowship quests. Never was. It never stopped you from exploring the game, enjoying it and reaching the cap!
Grouping solo quests is just boring and makes the content trivially easy! It's a solo quest for a reason!
Fellowship quests are designated as such, as they give a challenge for a group of players that like to team up and play together!
The FACT is! That as solo player you can easily ignore the fellowship quests, but for a group oriented player the new expac offers NOTHING!