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Star Wars: The Old Republic: Modification Madness

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Comments

  • DaddyDarkDaddyDark Member Posts: 138

    The best outfitiing system I personally experienced was implemented in the DC Universe Online - you just have the items equiped as in any other MMO, though you have the outfiting tab, where you can change the appearence of any item to the appearence of any previously unlocked item. It never really had any negative effects on PvP - as you had the opportunity to have a look at the actual  gear of opponents before the PvP match starts. It was also easy to identify the particularly dangerous opponents, since after the first kill you remember them by their outfit - the luxury you can't enjoy in most MMOs, where you get atacked by nearly identically looking warriors, mages and rogues... )))

    I agree that some restrictions should apply (like light/medium/heavy armor / class restrictions ect.).



     

  • ShredderSEShredderSE Member Posts: 197

    Originally posted by Agricola1

    Originally posted by ShredderSE

    Hawt pants mod ftw!

    Only if they come in rubber with a matching pair of thigh length boots!


     

    Of course! =D

  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,607

    Originally posted by Agricola1

    Originally posted by ShredderSE

    Hawt pants mod ftw!

    Only if they come in rubber with a matching pair of thigh length boots!

    Butt length FTW!!!  Just make the boots the color of hot pants.

  • BlackraynBlackrayn Member Posts: 142

    Originally posted by ~Oblivion~

    I like how Asheron's Call did their armor and loot system, and think that it should have been picked up by another developer in the last 10 years. You kill a mob, and it drops loot, some higher level mobs tend to drop better quality items but every piece of armor and weapon has a quality. You may get a Flawless quality item from a level 20 or from a level 120. The armor has basic statistics, such as the amount of protection it offers and the resistances. This system has been changed in later updates, but originally armor was not restricted, anyone could wear any type of armor. There were several types/styles of armor that came in a wide range of colors and combinations and could also be dyed. In the end people decided what type of armor they wanted to wear (usually Amuli, Celdon and occasionally Platemail) and what color combination they wanted. You came a across a wide variety of combinations amongst higher level characters but that same armor could be weilded by a level 10.

    To expand upon the armor as a vessel idea, if you were to embrace the now commonplace practice of attribute modifying/enhancing equipment (which Asheron's Call did not utilize at all, buffs were the only modifications, which some armor had passively with a decaying charge), you could use AC's model as a base. Take the armor rating away and just leave protections and quality. Quality items (vessels) can be looted or crafted but it takes skill and chance to do so, each piece of armor has a basic property that varies in quality and type (i.e. cloth vs plate, fire resistance vs. cold resistance) and has sockets for modifiers to be placed inside. You can retrieve the modifiers and later find better ones but this allows you to choose your personal look regardless of level and have gear that matters and differs by quality.

    I think one of the most charming things about some MMO's, namely Asheron's Call, is the loot system. In WoW and similar looting systems you are often heavily restricted on what the mob can drop when it dies, while this might give a nice layer of realism to a game it takes away that feeling of excitement when you go to loot a corpse. WoW offered that excitement in the way of Rare and Epic world drop items. AC offered it in the randomness of its item generation/loot tables. If items are to be at the core of your looting system, then you need a degree of randomness, otherwise I like the armor as a vessel idea, but it must differ in some way (quality-wise) that way you have the Shiny Black Suit of Awesomeness Perfect Quality to seek out, because right now you only have Good quality with so-so resistances and 2 sockets.

    My priority for an appearance tab is that armor appearance is modifiable. Dyes, attachments, armor kits, whatever it may be, if you modify the armor the appearance changes. If there are sockets in the armor, make them visible and if you add a gem I want to see the gem in the place where there was an empty socket. The devil is in the details as they say and detail is a key factor in immersion. If I change something on my character, such as put on a new item (jewelry) and nothing changes physically to their appearance, I am always disappointed. Especially when I find a Shiny Chainmail Hauberk to replace my Rusty Chainmail Hauberk and the same texture was used for both items. Diversity is key in an MMORPG, because the more latteral diversity...the more depth.




     

    ^This^

     Well said! Don't forget with AC you could go to a vendor and buy the cut out tool. If you found armor that you liked or matched another piece of your armor, you could buy the tool, use it on your new piece (loosing all characteristics of said piece) and apply it to the piece of armor you're wearing to help complete your matching armor set. There were restrictions, and it had to cover the same body parts as the piece your wanting to overlay!

     

     This being said though. I'm not in beta for TOR. I only know what has been confirmed. And I can tell you, the games out atm with/without an appearance tab are hardly the reason that I cannot wait to play TOR! I'm an avid appearance junky (it's a nice change of pace in games to put together sweet looking outfits, thats me) ask the friends that I played AC or LOTRO with. But again, an appearance tab for TOR is not the make or break decision factor for me!

  • SirBalinSirBalin Member UncommonPosts: 1,300

    I like this, in SWG I loved wearing the tuskin raider outfit, but evertying else was so much better, I couldn't...which sucked.  Very cool system.  With this everyone won't look the same at end game as well.

    Incognito
    www.incognito-gaming.us
    "You're either with us or against us"

  • LeoghanLeoghan Member Posts: 607

    Originally posted by gobla

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Hehe, I can already imagine the bestseller: "My father was a goblin", "A true story based on one of the most compelling social-political familly drama's of our time"

    On topic: @Leoghan. What do you mean DE? *does not compute*

    I will demand at least 10% of the profits, all the social-political family drama wouldn't have been possible without me.

    And DE is referring to our father, lord and god: Daniel Erickson.

    Hallowed be his name.

    His MMO come.

    His design be done.

    On earth as it is in SWToR.

    Give us this day our daily playtime.

    And forgive us our hate.

    As we also have forgiven our haters.

    And lead us not into boredom.

    But deliver us our MMO.

     

    Well played good sir, well played. 

  • LeoghanLeoghan Member Posts: 607

    Originally posted by Biggus99

    Originally posted by Leoghan

    This all boils down to one very simple thing. DE clearly believes he knows what is best for us when it comes to our own characters. We've seen this in his approach to playable (and even companion) species and we see it also in his refusal to admit that players want control over how their characters look. Father DE knows, best. 

     

    I guess you missed the part where Daniel Erickson has said that "After launch, it becomes all about the players and what they want."  He specifically stated that the will develop this game based on the preferences of the people playing it.  Just because something doesn't make it in for launch doesn't mean it's never going to be in the game.  

    DE has given zero indication that he actually believes this, in fact everytime someone has disagreed with his decisions he has essentially called them stupid. He uses terms like "freaks" to describe the more iconic species of Star Wars, I get the feeling that he will easily and happily disregard what the players want for his "vision". Seems like he's been hanging out with Brad McQuaid. 

  • IllyssiaIllyssia Member UncommonPosts: 1,507

     

    Mike's a crazy guy for writing this article. This is basically what he wants...

     

     

     

    ...This means players should be able to remove the stats from the item itself and place them in another. If I find an item that is way better than what I’ve got but I think it looks like crap? No problem. Extract the stats into an item of some sort (say, a modification!) and place them into an item I like. Voila! If I find something that looks cooler than what I have already I should be able to pull the stats out and move them over once again...

     

     

     

    Mike this isn't a great idea for a modern mmorpg, in fact it is a really bad one. Take an analogy, you own a cheap Honda motor car, but you like the way a  Ferrari looks...hey presto you zap the essence of the Honda into a replica body of a Ferrari. It looks great, but you aren't going to win any races heading down the Freeway with a Honda Motor powering the car. This is why Mike's idea is so bad, objects have to have an identity and a value to mean anything to anyone. The Ferrari has to cost as much as it does, perform the way it does, and look the way it does to be worth the 10s of thousands of bucks someone will pay to own and drive it. 

     

     

     

    I think Bioware will come up with a more sensible approach where an item looks the way it stats. A big powerful blaster has the stats to match, a pea shooter has mediocre stats. It's called game immersion Mike, you enter a world and accept its values, you don't suck the essence out of a lightsaber and stick it into a banana.

  • veritas723veritas723 Member CommonPosts: 38

    game developers are never going to give up on the eye candy gear grind that basically is their solution for "content" end game. 

     

    and I'd argue that there are always ways to customize a character.  SWG for example had a multitude of other armor options.  that allowed for a wide variety of "looks"   ...one quick swap macro  once you hit the ever boring mindless mound kill questing farce of that game... and bam.  you were set.  

     

    also don't know how i feel regarding the opinion of someone who played The Matrix Online. 

  • thisisfunnythisisfunny Member Posts: 2

    Lol, and even immediately after I post what I post. People just go off in la la land and think they know exactly how things work in TOR, and bash the game because of their "theory".

     

    I love how the internet works 

  • anointedsworanointedswor Member UncommonPosts: 5

    There are major problems with this idea. For example, you just need to find that one item and then what? Just mod it? How boring will that be in like a month's time? I perfer having different level items with different stats. For example, I find the best level 10 chest piece when I am level 9...how cool  is that! At  15 it is starting to suck...VerY GOOD! This means I have to get off my butt and find or make another chest piece. We have to make sure the ideas we come up with will not bore the hell out of us in game. 









     




     

    Character limits suck!

  • AkaisAkais Member UncommonPosts: 274

    Originally posted by MikeB



    Originally posted by Icewhite


    Originally posted by BadSpock

    I'm not asking for purple and pink Jedi robes or for Troopers to be able to dress like Jedi. What I'm looking for is within the confines of what makes sense for my class. If I get 100 Jedi robes as a Jedi, I want to be able to choose the one I like most and make it a viable piece of gear. I can't speak for BadSpock, but I wanted to clarfiy it as far as my point-of-view in the article. :)




     

    There something to be said in both directions on this subject, IMO.

    One of the largest issues I have ever had with MMO's was the fact that the developers in variably went the most cookie cutter route in regard to armor and weapons. The classes all look the same unless you have someone who hasn't finished getting the remainder of their gear.

    I dug the changes presented by games like DCUO, AION, and COH as their systems provided variety. 

    For a game like TOR though that story driven and supposedly immersive, I would imagine a style similar to those games might offer too much in the way of variety though.

    An appearance tab as much as opens the door for OOC looks. While I don't plan to RP, I don't want my potential immersion ruined either.

     

  • SharookSharook Member Posts: 72

    I strongly favor character individualism, moreso on clothes than on facial features, as the latter are far more difficult to make in a great variability (50 sliders for your nose shape DO NOT do the trick) and most of the time you dont see the faces of the characters close in mmos - allthough even this is different in swtor (cutscenes).

    But still!

    I don't like systems where you have to wear multiple layers of gear, one for the looks one for combat stats, one for crafting etc etc (example: vanguard, there you even had gear for diplomacy and harvesting iirc) this just fuels the WoWish gear greed i greatly dislike.

    So the idea of extracting stats from one item and applying those to another is totally my favorite. I dont even care if the original item is destroyed, i would rather welcome this as an item sink which might help to stabilize the game economy somewhat.

    What I indeed would not like is if its possible for someone to create a ramshackle look but indeed have uber-stats on this. this is my concern for vanity tabs. heavy armor bonuses should be visible in the other guy clearly wearing heavy armor, period. i would even restrict stat transfer for items for the same tier (i.e. blue stats only on blue items, green on green, purple on purple, etc.)  so a noobish looking armor never becomes an epic item. This should solve Illyssia's concerns.  I don't see the problem. This is better than wearing a wall closet's worth of gear.

    Modding also exellently hooks into crafting and thus gives the latter more meaning.

    On top of this I would like the option to apply color schemes on gear, for instance how it is handled in Global Agenda. This is a really good system imho. This would also make the look from different types of armor more homogenous (and less clown-like) if you apply the same color scheme on all your armor items.

    Also I have to say that I very much like the statement that gear stats would make up only 10% of the character stats (opposed to WoW where it was perceived 90%), which greatly strengthens my confidence in BW's game design competence and makes me even more exited for this game!

    And on a final note, if the game's item customization features are not uber and awesome at release day, i don't give a damn. these are features that can be introduced at a later time, shouldn't be that big of a problem to deliver it via patch. this is just a segregation of item model, item stats template and color scheme. just make the second and third as mods for the first (e.g. sockets) and that's it. the segregation has to be modeled in the database, this hsould happen early,  the visualization (model and color) is a client feature, clients change all day

  • drubin44drubin44 Member Posts: 1

    Star wars takes place in the past, not the future. 

  • GibboniciGibbonici Member UncommonPosts: 472

    Originally posted by veritas723

    game developers are never going to give up on the eye candy gear grind that basically is their solution for "content" end game.

    To be fair, I've lost count of the number of MMOs I've played that have "failed" because players walked away in disgust at no endgame gear grind.

    And I've always found that gear-grind endgames have been optional in games that have them, being that I've never taken part in it in any game I've ever played. I won't be doing it in TOR either. The "raid or die" mentality has only ever been in the mind, IMO.

  • jackdaw31jackdaw31 Member Posts: 26

    Yup, best 2 alternatives, on a purely aesthetic or vanity level, is CoH, where your costume/outfit/armour (whatever) has nothing to do with your stats (but who would want a non stat bit of gear these days?).

      Or the excellent DCUO idea that even when you equip your new, better stat gear, you can decide to keep any of your previous items looks, which negates that whole WoW thing of great stats on my new gear, but looks like I am now wearing a turd on my shoulder. With the DCUO system, even if you never find a better looking item down the line, it just doesn't matter. (a tad hard to describe if you haven't played it).

     While I like the look of some of these screenshots in TOR, I don't want all my chars to be over geared, some, like my Jedi, I may want to keep a very simple robe look. So I would also like to see an option to "hide" items, like WoW does with certain parts. Jedi in armour....hmm?

     

    Too many alts!!

  • Rampage9799Rampage9799 Member UncommonPosts: 35

    Michael , you AND your fellow writers here keep talking about the way YOU want this game to be. Forgive me if im wrong , but i didnt know you owned BioWare.

    First off if you find gear all you should be able to do is color it. Its a bad idea to be able to change it to anything you want unless its a  +5 ball of clay.  Your idea of being able to take the stats out of an item just doesnt make any sense.

    if you want your gear to suit your own fashion show you should be asking the developers to make more options in the crafting part of the game.

    Has any game you have ever played met every need you have for an MMO?  NO , so why should this game be any different?

     

  • ShapiroShapiro Member Posts: 8

    I really like how SOE solved this problem in DCUO with their style system. For those who haven't played it you get gear drops and have end game gear and what not, however  you collect styles from each piece you find and can make yourself look however you want with these styles  and retain whatever stats your gear has.

  • kage71kage71 Member UncommonPosts: 123

    I just have to say WOW (no pun intended) these SWToR discussions have gotten way too out of hand. Way way way too many players now days are thinking too much on how they look. I mean from the start it doesn't really makes any difference if you look like some other player by the gear you are wearing or not as long as your toon is surviving and doing what he/she is suppose to do. These are the main problems why  games now days are having problems on coming out. I mean seriously? If you take the time to think about it say for example you go as a troop: why should your level 20 troop look any different to another player's level 20 trooper? Okay so a person can say that is fine with the trooper class but then you will have one class that would think other have an unfair advangtage over them by just plain looks. I doubt this game will have a real leap between armor looks from one level to another. I am kind of believing that Bioware will not make drastic changes with players looks so I would not too much worry about it.

  • GrailerGrailer Member UncommonPosts: 893

    RIFT has wardrobe feature which allows you to wear items that appear "over" your existing items.

     

    This is the best way to fix the problem . Using mods etc sounds too complex .

  • FarquharsonFarquharson Member Posts: 5

    If Star Wars Galaxies can allow you to equip the look of an item only,then Tor should be able to set an appearance tab or something.

  • elminseselminses Member UncommonPosts: 59

    Has anyone here ever played Ruens of Magic.

     

    The item system your talking about is the basis for the entire game.

     

    You find the item you want, and your allowed to pulled stats off of other items and put them on the piece you have, you can use an aggragator to change the stated item to look like any another item at anytime if you get a better apperance.

     

    as you level gear has either abilities or certain "ghost" stats that are unquie to it, as well as stats that are rip-able, you the rip-able one are random based on armor type with chances for rare ones everytime you kill some sort of dungeon boss, you farm for stats and the gear you want then create the final item.

     

    Down side is Runes of magis is a F2P---win, game and if this system was in a P2P game that didn't allow people to be OP with real life cash it would be amazingly fun.

  • XantheousXantheous Member Posts: 121

    Why not do it though a crafter skill like splicing? Open trade with the crafter and they "splice" the stats off of the item. Win/Win.

    image

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