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The fresh feeling of GW2

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  • MalevilMalevil Member Posts: 468

    Originally posted by Slowdoves

    Originally posted by cali59


    Originally posted by Slowdoves


    Originally posted by Unlight


    Originally posted by Slowdoves


    Originally posted by AvsRock21

     


    Uh, you serious?  Everyone on this site is an mmo FAN.  We like to play mmos, we like the mechanics.  We just want something different.  A new way to play our favorite type of game, the mmo.  Guild Wars 2 has more than enough innovation.  It's still an mmorpg ( which we want ), but with creative and new mechanics that will give us new experiences.  

     

    Basically every big AAA mmo out since WoW was released, has copied many of the mechanics WoW used.  Note that many of these games were still very good.  People like this style.  They all had the same questing mechanics, same combat, same roles / classes.  And none of them except WAR and Aion, had any good RvR pvp.  In GW2 all of this is different.  Questing is completely different, combat is different ( but not TOO different ), there is WvW pvp, and you can start it from the beginning.  No more roles.  The list goes on....

    Questing will not be different, just better than what WHO and CO did. Again an idea from another MMO being done better.

    Actually, it's so different that during early testing, people had no idea that the events happening around them were actually content MADE for them.  They just skipped past it because no questgiver told them they should be doing anything about it.  That's the whole reason they implemented a scout system -- so that people would have some kind of familiar link to more tradtional quest systems. 

    Events seem second nature to us because we've been reading about it for months and years.  Not everyone who will be playing will have that level of familiarity.  And recall, when the dynamic event system was announced, there were tons of threads wondering how the hell it worked.  The questioning went on for months and still pops up now and then when a GW2 virgin first starts looking at the game.

    It is different.

    It will only be different for people who have never played Warhammer Online, Champions Online, Everquest 2. It's the non-traditional.

    I've seen you post this line several times.  I'm not going to get into the general discussion of whether something is truly original.  Everything is influenced to some degree by what came before, even if it's to want to do something completely different from it.  You've said over and over that they're the same thing, just done better.

    You can't even only talk about dynamic events when discussing GW2.  And they're simply not just public quests.  GW2 doesn't just get rid of quests and put 50 public quests in a zone instead and call it a day.  It's a whole integrated system designed to build community.  Doing away with traditional quests makes it so you're not just doing these things and then scattering to do something else.  They're not on timers, and so they happen organically.  They chain together to not only show cause and effect, but also to build community by having players stay working together longer.  They're fully cooperative so it's not a spawn competition.  They scale up and down with number of players so they're always challenging.  Players can use cross profession combos and anyone can rez anybody else, allowing people to work together even when ungrouped.  Players get full xp and loot for helping kill mobs so you want to see other people.  The entire PVE world is designed to be ungriefable.  Players automatically mentor down in power or you can sidekick people up so you can always play with your friends. 

    I'm probably even forgetting some things, but hopefully you can see the point, which is that DEs are not just PQs, it is really a revolutionary system designed to get people playing together.

    You can call it whatever you want, it's same thing.

    I am sure the developers for WHO and CO were thinking the exact same thing, but it was broken. I don't know about EQ2's DoV, maybe some else may shed some light on that one.

    Well I did played WAR and liked public quests. If according you it same thing as DE, you probably played your version of WAR in some alternate reality ...

  • cali59cali59 Member Posts: 1,634

    Originally posted by Slowdoves

    Originally posted by cali59

    Originally posted by Slowdoves

    Originally posted by Unlight

    Originally posted by Slowdoves

    Originally posted by AvsRock21

     

    Uh, you serious?  Everyone on this site is an mmo FAN.  We like to play mmos, we like the mechanics.  We just want something different.  A new way to play our favorite type of game, the mmo.  Guild Wars 2 has more than enough innovation.  It's still an mmorpg ( which we want ), but with creative and new mechanics that will give us new experiences.  

     

    Basically every big AAA mmo out since WoW was released, has copied many of the mechanics WoW used.  Note that many of these games were still very good.  People like this style.  They all had the same questing mechanics, same combat, same roles / classes.  And none of them except WAR and Aion, had any good RvR pvp.  In GW2 all of this is different.  Questing is completely different, combat is different ( but not TOO different ), there is WvW pvp, and you can start it from the beginning.  No more roles.  The list goes on....

    Questing will not be different, just better than what WHO and CO did. Again an idea from another MMO being done better.

    Actually, it's so different that during early testing, people had no idea that the events happening around them were actually content MADE for them.  They just skipped past it because no questgiver told them they should be doing anything about it.  That's the whole reason they implemented a scout system -- so that people would have some kind of familiar link to more tradtional quest systems. 

    Events seem second nature to us because we've been reading about it for months and years.  Not everyone who will be playing will have that level of familiarity.  And recall, when the dynamic event system was announced, there were tons of threads wondering how the hell it worked.  The questioning went on for months and still pops up now and then when a GW2 virgin first starts looking at the game.

    It is different.

    It will only be different for people who have never played Warhammer Online, Champions Online, Everquest 2. It's the non-traditional.

    I've seen you post this line several times.  I'm not going to get into the general discussion of whether something is truly original.  Everything is influenced to some degree by what came before, even if it's to want to do something completely different from it.  You've said over and over that they're the same thing, just done better.

    You can't even only talk about dynamic events when discussing GW2.  And they're simply not just public quests.  GW2 doesn't just get rid of quests and put 50 public quests in a zone instead and call it a day.  It's a whole integrated system designed to build community.  Doing away with traditional quests makes it so you're not just doing these things and then scattering to do something else.  They're not on timers, and so they happen organically.  They chain together to not only show cause and effect, but also to build community by having players stay working together longer.  They're fully cooperative so it's not a spawn competition.  They scale up and down with number of players so they're always challenging.  Players can use cross profession combos and anyone can rez anybody else, allowing people to work together even when ungrouped.  Players get full xp and loot for helping kill mobs so you want to see other people.  The entire PVE world is designed to be ungriefable.  Players automatically mentor down in power or you can sidekick people up so you can always play with your friends. 

    I'm probably even forgetting some things, but hopefully you can see the point, which is that DEs are not just PQs, it is really a revolutionary system designed to get people playing together.

    You can call it whatever you want, it's same concept.

    I am sure the developers for WHO and CO were thinking the exact same thing, but it was broken. I don't know about EQ2's DoV, maybe some else may shed some light on that one.

     I'm not going to sit here and quibble over what constitutes different, or what constitutes a concept.  Yes, they looked at quests and they looked at PQs and decided to create a system which is vastly superior to both.  You're not going to get an argument about that point.  But to say that the game won't be different to someone who played WAR, that's ridiculous.  Maybe an individual PQ shares a lot of similarities with an individual DE, but as I pointed out, the way all these pieces are put together in a scalable, communal, griefless system is completely novel.

    "Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true – you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007

  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Member RarePosts: 1,639

    Originally posted by cali59

    Originally posted by Slowdoves


    Originally posted by cali59


    Originally posted by Slowdoves


    Originally posted by Unlight


    Originally posted by Slowdoves


    Originally posted by AvsRock21

     


    Uh, you serious?  Everyone on this site is an mmo FAN.  We like to play mmos, we like the mechanics.  We just want something different.  A new way to play our favorite type of game, the mmo.  Guild Wars 2 has more than enough innovation.  It's still an mmorpg ( which we want ), but with creative and new mechanics that will give us new experiences.  

     

    Basically every big AAA mmo out since WoW was released, has copied many of the mechanics WoW used.  Note that many of these games were still very good.  People like this style.  They all had the same questing mechanics, same combat, same roles / classes.  And none of them except WAR and Aion, had any good RvR pvp.  In GW2 all of this is different.  Questing is completely different, combat is different ( but not TOO different ), there is WvW pvp, and you can start it from the beginning.  No more roles.  The list goes on....

    Questing will not be different, just better than what WHO and CO did. Again an idea from another MMO being done better.

    Actually, it's so different that during early testing, people had no idea that the events happening around them were actually content MADE for them.  They just skipped past it because no questgiver told them they should be doing anything about it.  That's the whole reason they implemented a scout system -- so that people would have some kind of familiar link to more tradtional quest systems. 

    Events seem second nature to us because we've been reading about it for months and years.  Not everyone who will be playing will have that level of familiarity.  And recall, when the dynamic event system was announced, there were tons of threads wondering how the hell it worked.  The questioning went on for months and still pops up now and then when a GW2 virgin first starts looking at the game.

    It is different.

    It will only be different for people who have never played Warhammer Online, Champions Online, Everquest 2. It's the non-traditional.

    I've seen you post this line several times.  I'm not going to get into the general discussion of whether something is truly original.  Everything is influenced to some degree by what came before, even if it's to want to do something completely different from it.  You've said over and over that they're the same thing, just done better.

    You can't even only talk about dynamic events when discussing GW2.  And they're simply not just public quests.  GW2 doesn't just get rid of quests and put 50 public quests in a zone instead and call it a day.  It's a whole integrated system designed to build community.  Doing away with traditional quests makes it so you're not just doing these things and then scattering to do something else.  They're not on timers, and so they happen organically.  They chain together to not only show cause and effect, but also to build community by having players stay working together longer.  They're fully cooperative so it's not a spawn competition.  They scale up and down with number of players so they're always challenging.  Players can use cross profession combos and anyone can rez anybody else, allowing people to work together even when ungrouped.  Players get full xp and loot for helping kill mobs so you want to see other people.  The entire PVE world is designed to be ungriefable.  Players automatically mentor down in power or you can sidekick people up so you can always play with your friends. 

    I'm probably even forgetting some things, but hopefully you can see the point, which is that DEs are not just PQs, it is really a revolutionary system designed to get people playing together.

    You can call it whatever you want, it's same concept.

    I am sure the developers for WHO and CO were thinking the exact same thing, but it was broken. I don't know about EQ2's DoV, maybe some else may shed some light on that one.

     I'm not going to sit here and quibble over what constitutes different, or what constitutes a concept.  Yes, they looked at quests and they looked at PQs and decided to create a system which is vastly superior to both.  You're not going to get an argument about that point.  But to say that the game won't be different to someone who played WAR, that's ridiculous.  Maybe an individual PQ shares a lot of similarities with an individual DE, but as I pointed out, the way all these pieces are put together in a scalable, communal, griefless system is completely novel.

    So they added more depth to Public Questing and went has far as changing the name so people who don't know  will not associate Dynamic Events with Public Questing. That to me is not creating a system, more like improving it.

     

    MMORPGs aren't easy, You're just too PRO!
  • IzkimarIzkimar Member UncommonPosts: 561

    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Originally posted by WardTheGreat


    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    With all the awesome new things coming to GW2, it might feel very fresh at release, and capture new and old players straight away... Most people will be thrilled. Oh how much we love this new awesome MMO that changed the genre forever.

     

    But do you people all realise that despite all the nice new features GW2 will feel just like a traditional MMO after a few months of playing it?  Once you can look passed the new mechanismes, there is just another MMO beneath that blanket. I hope you like MMMO's enough to survive this .....

     

    If you grew tired of current MMO's and dont like the current mechanics very much chances are big that in the end you will grow tired of this one too sooner or later. People that dont like current MMO combat mechanics might also grow tired of GW2 in a few months. Maybe they just don't like MMO's enough...

     

    I think by the time people realise this, they will start trashing this game like they do now with all other current MMO's and a few popular future ones. Saying that the game was far less revolutionary as promissed. But the only ones that promissed themselves a revolution is their own kind of people. People that just dont like the MMO genre enough....

    Wow, this is utter bull.....  Do you realize that GW2 is not like the other games, and isn't just the same thing covered in new shinies?...  No you don't, I cannot believe you have read and posted on all things GW2 and still spouted this nonsense.  GW2 has targeted all those dreadful things in current MMO's, and blasted them away, likening the experience to a Single player RPG with as many friends as you want!  The only argument you can employ to GW2 is that if you are tired of games in general, or RPG's in general then you will get tired of this too...  I'm out.

    The blind shall remind blind because they choose so themselves...

     

    I never said GW2 will be boring.... i only said that after a certain time the game would feel like just any other Class A MMORPG.   GW2 is no different then any other game up to date in that it is just a game and nothing more then a game....

     

    I played 3 years of EQ, DAOC and WoW....  Me quiting after 3 years had nothing to do with those being bad games.... it was a complement to those 3 games that they kept me occupied for so long...  If GW2 makes 3 years it will certainly be another highlight  in my MMO carreer.

     

    GW2 will appeal to much more gamers then the current MMO crowd for sure...  And thats what the reallyt great games do they find new players and add them to the MMO crowd.

    Speaking of the blind...  Look at your OP, I love how you change your argument to exactly what I said in mine.  Of course you're eventually going to get tired of "A GAME" but your original argument was "an MMO" and that is sitting on shifting sands and has no base.

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Member Posts: 2,574

    Which would you rather have:

    A game that gets boring after 5+ years (GW2)

     

    or

     

    A game that gets boring after 2-3 months due to the "been there, done that" feeling (SWToR)

     

    ?

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

  • KillyoxKillyox Member CommonPosts: 424

    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    With all the awesome new things coming to GW2, it might feel very fresh at release, and capture new and old players straight away... Most people will be thrilled. Oh how much we love this new awesome MMO that changed the genre forever.

     

    But do you people all realise that despite all the nice new features GW2 will feel just like a traditional MMO after a few months of playing it?  Once you can look passed the new mechanismes, there is just another MMO beneath that blanket. I hope you like MMMO's enough to survive this .....

     

    If you grew tired of current MMO's and dont like the current mechanics very much chances are big that in the end you will grow tired of this one too sooner or later. People that dont like current MMO combat mechanics might also grow tired of GW2 in a few months. Maybe they just don't like MMO's enough...

     

    I think by the time people realise this, they will start trashing this game like they do now with all other current MMO's and a few popular future ones. Saying that the game was far less revolutionary as promissed. But the only ones that promissed themselves a revolution is their own kind of people. People that just dont like the MMO genre enough....

    I'm confident that GW2 and D3 will hold me for years. More so with a lot of GW2 expansions. I can play pve with any char, enjoy a lot of different DEs and if i ever want to i can easily pvp with any class i want. Got bored of playing my thief in pve and pvp for 6 months? ill make a week long play with necro in pvp/pve and other classes. Theres no leveling to max level required to have fun in pvp with other classes.

     

    So duh. If GW2 is good i will stick for many years.

  • fiontarfiontar Member UncommonPosts: 3,682

    Originally posted by Slowdoves

    So they added more depth to Public Questing and went has far as changing the name so people who don't know  will not associate Dynamic Events with Public Questing. That to me is not creating a system, more like improving it.

     

     

    I'm sorry, but there really isn't any real comparison between Warhammer PQs and GW2 Dynamic Events.

    PQs were scripted events that replayed over and over again, with out variation, on a very strict time schedule, while rewarding players who participated. You succeeded or failed, but either way didn't effect the fact that the next "show" would go on at the scheduled time, regardless of the outcome.

    Dynamic Events are not static, repeating content. Each event is a link in a chain and the chains can branch, ripple out to effect other chains and their success or failure is persistant and meaningful. It's also not just the state of the Event Chain that is persistant, but changes to the game world that result from the progressions of the DE chains.

    Comparing GW2 Dynamic Events to Warhammer PQs would be like comparing Diablo to the Atari 2600 game Venture; or the board game Axis and Allies to Snakes and Ladders.

    Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
    image

  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Member RarePosts: 1,639

    Originally posted by fiontar

    Originally posted by Slowdoves

    So they added more depth to Public Questing and went has far as changing the name so people who don't know  will not associate Dynamic Events with Public Questing. That to me is not creating a system, more like improving it.

     

     

    I'm sorry, but there really isn't any real comparison between Warhammer PQs and GW2 Dynamic Events.

    PQs were scripted events that replayed over and over again, with out variation, on a very strict time schedule, while rewarding players who participated. You succeeded or failed, but either way didn't effect the fact that the next "show" would go on at the scheduled time, regardless of the outcome.

    Dynamic Events are not static, repeating content. Each event is a link in a chain and the chains can branch, ripple out to effect other chains and their success or failure is persistant and meaningful. It's also not just the state of the Event Chain that is persistant, but changes to the game world that result from the progressions of the DE chains.

    Comparing GW2 Dynamic Events to Warhammer PQs would be like comparing Diablo to the Atari 2600 game Venture; or the board game Axis and Allies to Snakes and Ladders.

    Those are some pretty significant gaps, DE and PQ isn't.

    Like I said improvements! A feature that was optional in some games, becomes the standard for another. Just like their combat system, what is that again Area of Effect/Ground Targetting, again something optional for certain classes in some games, becoming the standard for the game.

     

    MMORPGs aren't easy, You're just too PRO!
  • IcewhiteIcewhite Member Posts: 6,403

    The cool part about this argument is that no matter which side you choose, you're just playing the redefinition game.

    Could go on for many pages :)

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • cali59cali59 Member Posts: 1,634

    Originally posted by Slowdoves

    Originally posted by cali59

    Originally posted by Slowdoves

    Originally posted by cali59

    Originally posted by Slowdoves

    Originally posted by Unlight

    Originally posted by Slowdoves

    Originally posted by AvsRock21

     

    Uh, you serious?  Everyone on this site is an mmo FAN.  We like to play mmos, we like the mechanics.  We just want something different.  A new way to play our favorite type of game, the mmo.  Guild Wars 2 has more than enough innovation.  It's still an mmorpg ( which we want ), but with creative and new mechanics that will give us new experiences.  

     

    Basically every big AAA mmo out since WoW was released, has copied many of the mechanics WoW used.  Note that many of these games were still very good.  People like this style.  They all had the same questing mechanics, same combat, same roles / classes.  And none of them except WAR and Aion, had any good RvR pvp.  In GW2 all of this is different.  Questing is completely different, combat is different ( but not TOO different ), there is WvW pvp, and you can start it from the beginning.  No more roles.  The list goes on....

    Questing will not be different, just better than what WHO and CO did. Again an idea from another MMO being done better.

    Actually, it's so different that during early testing, people had no idea that the events happening around them were actually content MADE for them.  They just skipped past it because no questgiver told them they should be doing anything about it.  That's the whole reason they implemented a scout system -- so that people would have some kind of familiar link to more tradtional quest systems. 

    Events seem second nature to us because we've been reading about it for months and years.  Not everyone who will be playing will have that level of familiarity.  And recall, when the dynamic event system was announced, there were tons of threads wondering how the hell it worked.  The questioning went on for months and still pops up now and then when a GW2 virgin first starts looking at the game.

    It is different.

    It will only be different for people who have never played Warhammer Online, Champions Online, Everquest 2. It's the non-traditional.

    I've seen you post this line several times.  I'm not going to get into the general discussion of whether something is truly original.  Everything is influenced to some degree by what came before, even if it's to want to do something completely different from it.  You've said over and over that they're the same thing, just done better.

    You can't even only talk about dynamic events when discussing GW2.  And they're simply not just public quests.  GW2 doesn't just get rid of quests and put 50 public quests in a zone instead and call it a day.  It's a whole integrated system designed to build community.  Doing away with traditional quests makes it so you're not just doing these things and then scattering to do something else.  They're not on timers, and so they happen organically.  They chain together to not only show cause and effect, but also to build community by having players stay working together longer.  They're fully cooperative so it's not a spawn competition.  They scale up and down with number of players so they're always challenging.  Players can use cross profession combos and anyone can rez anybody else, allowing people to work together even when ungrouped.  Players get full xp and loot for helping kill mobs so you want to see other people.  The entire PVE world is designed to be ungriefable.  Players automatically mentor down in power or you can sidekick people up so you can always play with your friends. 

    I'm probably even forgetting some things, but hopefully you can see the point, which is that DEs are not just PQs, it is really a revolutionary system designed to get people playing together.

    You can call it whatever you want, it's same concept.

    I am sure the developers for WHO and CO were thinking the exact same thing, but it was broken. I don't know about EQ2's DoV, maybe some else may shed some light on that one.

     I'm not going to sit here and quibble over what constitutes different, or what constitutes a concept.  Yes, they looked at quests and they looked at PQs and decided to create a system which is vastly superior to both.  You're not going to get an argument about that point.  But to say that the game won't be different to someone who played WAR, that's ridiculous.  Maybe an individual PQ shares a lot of similarities with an individual DE, but as I pointed out, the way all these pieces are put together in a scalable, communal, griefless system is completely novel.

    So they added more depth to Public Questing and went has far as changing the name so people who don't know  will not associate Dynamic Events with Public Questing. That to me is not creating a system, more like improving it.

     

    So we're now no longer quibbling about what constitutes "different" or a "concept", now we're quibbling about what it means to "create" something. 

    Seriously.  Who cares about semantics?  The only thing that matters is that DEs are not PQs.  You concede they have more depth.  You concede they are improved.  You concede they are better.  The highlighted parts in red are mutually exclusive with what you said in green.

    I don't even know what we're arguing about.  DEs are a direct descendent of PQs.  In this video they even highlight the evolution of MMO content from hunting to quests to PQs to DEs.  Nobody is even disputing this.  Whatever semantical terms we use, my whole point is that someone who played WAR is not getting the same experience in GW2.

    "Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true – you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007

  • VolkonVolkon Member UncommonPosts: 3,748

    I think the OP is failing to realize that Anet will keep injecting new dynamic events into the game as time goes along. Basically, as you beat the content with one character you'll turn around and realize there's a crapload of stuff that you still haven't seen yet. Do you do it on a new character, or go back with yours and see it. Do you revisit an old haunt and find new, unique dynamic events you've never seen before taking place? Or maybe, just maybe, you do decide to take a break. You know what?

     

    That's ok too.

     

    No subscription fee. Take a break, do something else for a bit. Come back later, whenever you want. Tyria will be waiting, with something new to offer.

    Every time.

    Oderint, dum metuant.

  • IzkimarIzkimar Member UncommonPosts: 561

    Originally posted by Slowdoves

    Originally posted by AvsRock21

     

    Uh, you serious?  Everyone on this site is an mmo FAN.  We like to play mmos, we like the mechanics.  We just want something different.  A new way to play our favorite type of game, the mmo.  Guild Wars 2 has more than enough innovation.  It's still an mmorpg ( which we want ), but with creative and new mechanics that will give us new experiences.  

     

    Basically every big AAA mmo out since WoW was released, has copied many of the mechanics WoW used.  Note that many of these games were still very good.  People like this style.  They all had the same questing mechanics, same combat, same roles / classes.  And none of them except WAR and Aion, had any good RvR pvp.  In GW2 all of this is different.  Questing is completely different, combat is different ( but not TOO different ), there is WvW pvp, and you can start it from the beginning.  No more roles.  The list goes on....

    Questing will not be different, just better than what WHO and CO did. Again an idea from another MMO being done better.

    What you posted makes no sense at all...  How is questing no different?  Warhammer Online questing was basic questing like any MMO...

    GW2, there is no quests whatsoever!  How is that not different?  Get out of here.

  • IzkimarIzkimar Member UncommonPosts: 561

    Originally posted by Slowdoves

    Originally posted by cali59


    Originally posted by Slowdoves


    Originally posted by Unlight


    Originally posted by Slowdoves


    Originally posted by AvsRock21

     


    Uh, you serious?  Everyone on this site is an mmo FAN.  We like to play mmos, we like the mechanics.  We just want something different.  A new way to play our favorite type of game, the mmo.  Guild Wars 2 has more than enough innovation.  It's still an mmorpg ( which we want ), but with creative and new mechanics that will give us new experiences.  

     

    Basically every big AAA mmo out since WoW was released, has copied many of the mechanics WoW used.  Note that many of these games were still very good.  People like this style.  They all had the same questing mechanics, same combat, same roles / classes.  And none of them except WAR and Aion, had any good RvR pvp.  In GW2 all of this is different.  Questing is completely different, combat is different ( but not TOO different ), there is WvW pvp, and you can start it from the beginning.  No more roles.  The list goes on....

    Questing will not be different, just better than what WHO and CO did. Again an idea from another MMO being done better.

    Actually, it's so different that during early testing, people had no idea that the events happening around them were actually content MADE for them.  They just skipped past it because no questgiver told them they should be doing anything about it.  That's the whole reason they implemented a scout system -- so that people would have some kind of familiar link to more tradtional quest systems. 

    Events seem second nature to us because we've been reading about it for months and years.  Not everyone who will be playing will have that level of familiarity.  And recall, when the dynamic event system was announced, there were tons of threads wondering how the hell it worked.  The questioning went on for months and still pops up now and then when a GW2 virgin first starts looking at the game.

    It is different.

    It will only be different for people who have never played Warhammer Online, Champions Online, Everquest 2. It's the non-traditional.

    I've seen you post this line several times.  I'm not going to get into the general discussion of whether something is truly original.  Everything is influenced to some degree by what came before, even if it's to want to do something completely different from it.  You've said over and over that they're the same thing, just done better.

    You can't even only talk about dynamic events when discussing GW2.  And they're simply not just public quests.  GW2 doesn't just get rid of quests and put 50 public quests in a zone instead and call it a day.  It's a whole integrated system designed to build community.  Doing away with traditional quests makes it so you're not just doing these things and then scattering to do something else.  They're not on timers, and so they happen organically.  They chain together to not only show cause and effect, but also to build community by having players stay working together longer.  They're fully cooperative so it's not a spawn competition.  They scale up and down with number of players so they're always challenging.  Players can use cross profession combos and anyone can rez anybody else, allowing people to work together even when ungrouped.  Players get full xp and loot for helping kill mobs so you want to see other people.  The entire PVE world is designed to be ungriefable.  Players automatically mentor down in power or you can sidekick people up so you can always play with your friends. 

    I'm probably even forgetting some things, but hopefully you can see the point, which is that DEs are not just PQs, it is really a revolutionary system designed to get people playing together.

    You can call it whatever you want, it's same concept.

    I am sure the developers for WHO and CO were thinking the exact same thing, but it was broken. I don't know about EQ2's DoV, maybe some else may shed some light on that one.

    They were not thinking the same thing..  Warhammer Online's PQ's were a side note to questing...  None of them were how the entire game world opperated, none of them involved voice acting with actual active storytelling, none of them offered the scaling that GW2 offers, none of the offered alternate chains like GW2 does, none of them offered blending with other events like GW2 does, none of them got even close to being as massive as the fights you will see in GW2.  There is no comparison just stop, you're making yourself look like a fool with your foundationless arguments. 

  • IzkimarIzkimar Member UncommonPosts: 561

    Originally posted by Slowdoves

    Originally posted by Unlight


    Originally posted by Slowdoves


    Originally posted by AvsRock21

     

    Uh, you serious?  Everyone on this site is an mmo FAN.  We like to play mmos, we like the mechanics.  We just want something different.  A new way to play our favorite type of game, the mmo.  Guild Wars 2 has more than enough innovation.  It's still an mmorpg ( which we want ), but with creative and new mechanics that will give us new experiences.  

     

    Basically every big AAA mmo out since WoW was released, has copied many of the mechanics WoW used.  Note that many of these games were still very good.  People like this style.  They all had the same questing mechanics, same combat, same roles / classes.  And none of them except WAR and Aion, had any good RvR pvp.  In GW2 all of this is different.  Questing is completely different, combat is different ( but not TOO different ), there is WvW pvp, and you can start it from the beginning.  No more roles.  The list goes on....

    Questing will not be different, just better than what WHO and CO did. Again an idea from another MMO being done better.

    Actually, it's so different that during early testing, people had no idea that the events happening around them were actually content MADE for them.  They just skipped past it because no questgiver told them they should be doing anything about it.  That's the whole reason they implemented a scout system -- so that people would have some kind of familiar link to more tradtional quest systems. 

    Events seem second nature to us because we've been reading about it for months and years.  Not everyone who will be playing will have that level of familiarity.  And recall, when the dynamic event system was announced, there were tons of threads wondering how the hell it worked.  The questioning went on for months and still pops up now and then when a GW2 virgin first starts looking at the game.

    It is different.

    It will only be different for people who have never played Warhammer Online, Champions Online, Everquest 2. It's the non-traditional.

    It will be totally different than both of those games..

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Member Posts: 5,359

    Originally posted by WardTheGreat

    Originally posted by Slowdoves

    Originally posted by cali59

    Originally posted by Slowdoves

    Originally posted by Unlight

    Originally posted by Slowdoves

    Originally posted by AvsRock21

     

    ...

    You can call it whatever you want, it's same concept.

    I am sure the developers for WHO and CO were thinking the exact same thing, but it was broken. I don't know about EQ2's DoV, maybe some else may shed some light on that one.

    They were not thinking the same thing..  Warhammer Online's PQ's were a side note to questing...  None of them were how the entire game world opperated, none of them involved voice acting with actual active storytelling, none of them offered the scaling that GW2 offers, none of the offered alternate chains like GW2 does, none of them offered blending with other events like GW2 does, none of them got even close to being as massive as the fights you will see in GW2.  There is no comparison just stop, you're making yourself look like a fool with your foundationless arguments. 

    I agree, and I would also like to add the fact that...

    Everquest had quests long before WoW came out.  Does that mean that WoW just copied off of Everquest?  NO!

    The quests in Everquest were really just a side note to the game.  You would do them from time to time, but the "meat" of the game was grinding MOBs with a group.  When WoW did quests, they made them the central focus of the game.  You spent most of your time questing in WoW, while you spent barely any time questing in EQ.

    This is similar to WAR and GW2.  WAR had the Public Quests, but they weren't done very often.  Most were ghost towns because of how they were implemented, so most players resorted to the run-of-the-mill WoW-esque quests for leveling.  GW2 is completely doing away with WoW-esque quests, all quests (except for personal story) will be dynamic events.  That's why it's different.  In GW2, dynamic events will be the "meat" of the game, in WAR they were just a minor part of the game.

    The point is that this crap isn't just binary.  You can't say that:

    "Game X had feature Y too, so game Z's implementation of feature Y is completely unoriginal!"

    That kind of thinking is a gross oversimplification, and MMORPGs simply don't work that way.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • causscauss Member UncommonPosts: 666

    I don't really know what you're trying to say..

    We all know GW2 is going to be an MMORPG. We all know MMORPGs have similar mechanics. Isn't that the same with EVERY DAMN THING on this planet? Cars, movies, books, mobile phones, games, whatever. The thing is, In its core, all cars are just 'cars', but it depends on the creator how well you love this car. I, for example love Volkswagen, HTC android phones, MMORPGs, Inception the movie. Why do I love them? Partly because of the owner. Does this mean you'll like those same things? No. But this is the reason why I love GW2, because of the creator, ArenaNet. 

    I really don't get it. Some people exaggerate (but that happens with everything). It can be the most innovative thing in the world, a 'fresh' feeling will always fade away after a few months (or weeks).

  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135

    I'm probably going to kick myself later for opening this can of worms, but you guys do realize that just because something is based off of an already estabolished concept does not automatically mean it's the same thing. The majority (if not all) of revolutionary ideas were all based off of ideas already present. They just updated / modified / tweaked those ideas to be more revelent, more dominant, more meaningful. This is exactly what's happening with GW2's DE system.

    If anything, GW2 (as it pertains to questing) will be the inverse of WAR. WAR had traditional quests, with PQs as a sidenote to give people something else to do when bored. Did they intend PQs to be more? Well they said they did, but it never really happened that way. GW2, on the other hand, is using DE (a much more robust version of the PQ system) as the bulk of the game, when it comes to questing, with traditional quest ques thrown in to help guide players to those DEs.

    Also, the focus of DEs are far different from PQs.

    PQs = stage 1, fight fodder, stage 2 fight stronger mobs, stage 3 fight elite mobs / boss, wait for reset.

    DEs = what's the situation? Do I want to save this village? Should I tender the crops, or help fend off the bandits? Do I want to help the artillery against this dragon? Should I help res the support soldiers, should I fend off incoming minions, should I just go up to the damned dragon and chop him to pieces?

    What's the difference? Choice. And multiple ones at that. While PQs were very linear grinds for sub-par loot, DEs are multi-facetted events that determine how a zone will feel overall. It will determine whether outposts or towns are all dead, filled with ghosts & undead, or if a zone is lively, thriving, and full of vendors & NPCs to talk to.

    Huge, huge difference. I think some people get confused because what Anet is doing with GW2 is what Mythic initially promised with WAR, and wanted to pull off. But they didn't. The events in CO are just an extension of the ones WAR had. Same exact mechanic, same implementation, just in a different setting. Not true with DEs.

  • just1opinionjust1opinion Member UncommonPosts: 4,641

    Originally posted by aesperus

    I'm probably going to kick myself later for opening this can of worms, but you guys do realize that just because something is based off of an already estabolished concept does not automatically mean it's the same thing. The majority (if not all) of revolutionary ideas were all based off of ideas already present. They just updated / modified / tweaked those ideas to be more revelent, more dominant, more meaningful. This is exactly what's happening with GW2's DE system.

    If anything, GW2 (as it pertains to questing) will be the inverse of WAR. WAR had traditional quests, with PQs as a sidenote to give people something else to do when bored. Did they intend PQs to be more? Well they said they did, but it never really happened that way. GW2, on the other hand, is using DE (a much more robust version of the PQ system) as the bulk of the game, when it comes to questing, with traditional quest ques thrown in to help guide players to those DEs.

    Also, the focus of DEs are far different from PQs.

    PQs = stage 1, fight fodder, stage 2 fight stronger mobs, stage 3 fight elite mobs / boss, wait for reset.

    DEs = what's the situation? Do I want to save this village? Should I tender the crops, or help fend off the bandits? Do I want to help the artillery against this dragon? Should I help res the support soldiers, should I fend off incoming minions, should I just go up to the damned dragon and chop him to pieces?

    What's the difference? Choice. And multiple ones at that. While PQs were very linear grinds for sub-par loot, DEs are multi-facetted events that determine how a zone will feel overall. It will determine whether outposts or towns are all dead, filled with ghosts & undead, or if a zone is lively, thriving, and full of vendors & NPCs to talk to.

    Huge, huge difference. I think some people get confused because what Anet is doing with GW2 is what Mythic initially promised with WAR, and wanted to pull off. But they didn't. The events in CO are just an extension of the ones WAR had. Same exact mechanic, same implementation, just in a different setting. Not true with DEs.

     

     

    There's also the difference that DEs scale to number of people fighting and PQs did NOT. 

    President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Member RarePosts: 1,639

    So we are in agreement that ArenaNet has improved, polished up, and add more depth to the features that were already in placed by other games? No, I don't expect people to agree with me.

    I'm just going by what I am seeing and reading. It's sounds and looks all too familar.

    The idea of any game providing a "Fresh Feel," I would hope so.

    MMORPGs aren't easy, You're just too PRO!
  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Member RarePosts: 1,639

    Originally posted by just1opinion

     There's also the difference that DEs scale to number of people fighting and PQs did NOT. 

    http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Public_Quests

    "The difficulty of the tasks (and associated mobs) scale in difficulty based on the number of people in the area."

    MMORPGs aren't easy, You're just too PRO!
  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135

    Originally posted by Slowdoves

    Originally posted by just1opinion



     There's also the difference that DEs scale to number of people fighting and PQs did NOT. 

    http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Public_Quests

    "The difficulty of the tasks (and associated mobs) scale in difficulty based on the number of people in the area."

    Isn't that a feature that was just released earlier this year?

  • just1opinionjust1opinion Member UncommonPosts: 4,641

    Originally posted by aesperus

    Originally posted by Slowdoves


    Originally posted by just1opinion



     There's also the difference that DEs scale to number of people fighting and PQs did NOT. 

    http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Public_Quests

    "The difficulty of the tasks (and associated mobs) scale in difficulty based on the number of people in the area."

    Isn't that a feature that was just released earlier this year?

     

    It certainly wasn't in at release, because I played back then.  That is also from EQ2's wiki NOT FROM WARHAMMER, which is what we were discussing.  I also played EQ2 for 7 years.  I just left it.  DoV is the ONLY expansion I didn't have, so this must have been part of that.

     

    @Slowdoves

    I've read enough of your posts now to see you're trying to imply that GW2 does nothing "new."  Well....WoW did nothing "new" either and look what happened there.  I don't agree with you that they do nothing original, because some of what they're doing came from GW1 and that belongs to THEM, so it's not "copied."  I do however agree that they have refined and polished ideas from other games.  That's usually a good thing to DO unless you're actually TRYING to carbon copy another AAA MMO, which I do not think they're trying to do.

    President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Member RarePosts: 1,639

    Originally posted by just1opinion

    Originally posted by aesperus


    Originally posted by Slowdoves


    Originally posted by just1opinion



     There's also the difference that DEs scale to number of people fighting and PQs did NOT. 

    http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Public_Quests

    "The difficulty of the tasks (and associated mobs) scale in difficulty based on the number of people in the area."

    Isn't that a feature that was just released earlier this year?

     

    It certainly wasn't in at release, because I played back then.  That is also from EQ2's wiki NOT FROM WARHAMMER, which is what we were discussing.  I also played EQ2 for 7 years.  I just left it.  DoV is the ONLY expansion I didn't have, so this must have been part of that.

     

    @Slowdoves

    I've read enough of your posts now to see you're trying to imply that GW2 does nothing "new."  Well....WoW did nothing "new" either and look what happened there.  I don't agree with you that they do nothing original, because some of what they're doing came from GW1 and that belongs to THEM, so it's not "copied."  I do however agree that they have refined and polished ideas from other games.  That's usually a good thing to DO unless you're actually TRYING to carbon copy another AAA MMO, which I do not think they're trying to do.

    My intension was never to imply the ArentNet was anything but original. I don't believe I have ever made such a statement., if I had I do apologize.

    MMORPGs aren't easy, You're just too PRO!
  • IzkimarIzkimar Member UncommonPosts: 561

    Originally posted by Slowdoves

    So we are in agreement that ArenaNet has improved, polished up, and add more depth to the features that were already in placed by other games? No, I don't expect people to agree with me.

    I'm just going by what I am seeing and reading. It's sounds and looks all too familar.

    The idea of any game providing a "Fresh Feel," I would hope so.

    I'm sorry that you lack the ability to comprehend what you read.  They have completely scrapped normal MMO play, and replaced it with features that can only be considered similar to those other game on step 1, whereas GW2 goes to step 5,000,000... 

  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Member RarePosts: 1,639

    Originally posted by WardTheGreat

    Originally posted by Slowdoves

    So we are in agreement that ArenaNet has improved, polished up, and add more depth to the features that were already in placed by other games? No, I don't expect people to agree with me.

    I'm just going by what I am seeing and reading. It's sounds and looks all too familar.

    The idea of any game providing a "Fresh Feel," I would hope so.

    I'm sorry that you lack the ability to comprehend what you read.  They have completely scrapped normal MMO play, and replaced it with features that can only be considered similar to those other game on step 1, whereas GW2 goes to step 5,000,000... 

    Wow again with the indirect insults! Really? You're on a roll, lets see what else you can say.

    MMORPGs aren't easy, You're just too PRO!
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