Bioware just cancelled Christmas for all their employees.
Actually, I think BioWare just insured a HUGE Christmas bonus for all there employees.
Yeah, exactly. Plus the vast majority of people working at Bioware will get the time off anyway. All they'll need to run the game is the QA people, the server people, and the CS people.
How is a concept artist, engine programmer, or writer going to be any help so soon after launch? Actually, I bet 95% of Bioware's employees will get an extra long holiday this year before they go back to the grindstone in early January.
I assure you that Bioware's IT and CS department make up a vastly larger percentage than 5% of their employee base. In addition, I wouldn't be surprised if their marketing & sales guys are neck deep in advertising campaigns for the 1st couple weeks of the game's launch. Even the executive staff will be balls deep in metrics and investor meetings.
Maybe the arts department (graphics & writing) will get some time off. But you're pretty pie in the sky if you think anyone else will. It's well documented that the gaming industry works its people incredibly hard.
Bioware just cancelled Christmas for all their employees.
Actually, I think BioWare just insured a HUGE Christmas bonus for all there employees.
Yeah, exactly. Plus the vast majority of people working at Bioware will get the time off anyway. All they'll need to run the game is the QA people, the server people, and the CS people.
How is a concept artist, engine programmer, or writer going to be any help so soon after launch? Actually, I bet 95% of Bioware's employees will get an extra long holiday this year before they go back to the grindstone in early January.
I assure you that Bioware's IT and CS department make up a vastly larger percentage than 5% of their employee base. In addition, I wouldn't be surprised if their marketing & sales guys are neck deep in advertising campaigns for the 1st couple weeks of the game's launch. Even the executive staff will be balls deep in metrics and investor meetings.
Maybe the arts department (graphics & writing) will get some time off. But you're pretty pie in the sky if you think anyone else will. It's well documented that the gaming industry works its people incredibly hard.
If someone wants a 9-5 job in IT, the gaming industry is not the place for them.
However, if you are a developer, the gaming industry is one of the few IT industry where they have a 'profit sharing' clause.
You want a stable 100k job that goes 9-5? The business sector is it.
You want a really intense schedule but comes with a 500k bonus after 3-4 years? The gaming industry.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Bioware just cancelled Christmas for all their employees.
Actually, I think BioWare just insured a HUGE Christmas bonus for all there employees.
Yeah, exactly. Plus the vast majority of people working at Bioware will get the time off anyway. All they'll need to run the game is the QA people, the server people, and the CS people.
How is a concept artist, engine programmer, or writer going to be any help so soon after launch? Actually, I bet 95% of Bioware's employees will get an extra long holiday this year before they go back to the grindstone in early January.
I assure you that Bioware's IT and CS department make up a vastly larger percentage than 5% of their employee base. In addition, I wouldn't be surprised if their marketing & sales guys are neck deep in advertising campaigns for the 1st couple weeks of the game's launch. Even the executive staff will be balls deep in metrics and investor meetings.
Maybe the arts department (graphics & writing) will get some time off. But you're pretty pie in the sky if you think anyone else will. It's well documented that the gaming industry works its people incredibly hard.
I work for a hotel company. its a 24 hour 365 day a year business. It doesnt close for holidays or anything of the sort. Some people are lucky and get holidays off and some arent. Thats just the way it goes. I dont understand all the hoopla I keep seeing if Bioware employees are getting christmas off.
Bioware just cancelled Christmas for all their employees.
Actually, I think BioWare just insured a HUGE Christmas bonus for all there employees.
Yeah, exactly. Plus the vast majority of people working at Bioware will get the time off anyway. All they'll need to run the game is the QA people, the server people, and the CS people.
How is a concept artist, engine programmer, or writer going to be any help so soon after launch? Actually, I bet 95% of Bioware's employees will get an extra long holiday this year before they go back to the grindstone in early January.
I assure you that Bioware's IT and CS department make up a vastly larger percentage than 5% of their employee base. In addition, I wouldn't be surprised if their marketing & sales guys are neck deep in advertising campaigns for the 1st couple weeks of the game's launch. Even the executive staff will be balls deep in metrics and investor meetings.
Maybe the arts department (graphics & writing) will get some time off. But you're pretty pie in the sky if you think anyone else will. It's well documented that the gaming industry works its people incredibly hard.
I work for a hotel company. its a 24 hour 365 day a year business. It doesnt close for holidays or anything of the sort. Some people are lucky and get holidays off and some arent. Thats just the way it goes. I dont understand all the hoopla I keep seeing if Bioware employees are getting christmas off.
Yah, and I work in a colocation facility thats 24/7. In fact, I'll be working this Christmas, Thanksgiving, and New Years unless I take vacation time. However, the difference between you and me, and the Bioware team is extremely simple. We are shift workers. I work my 8 hour shift, 40 hours a week, and the only time I work extra is when someone calls in sick or there are emergencies.
Game developers don't work that way. Those guys have been putting in +60 hour weeks for the past 6+ months, on salary. That is how crunch time works in the gaming industry, you get worked to the bone to make investor deadlines. They aren't shift workers, and they aren't even service related until the doors swing open.
The reward for finally putting out your finished product is usually time off. You deserve it after not having a life for months on end... but MMOs don't work that way because of their nature. To compoud that with the holiday's is a pure dick move that was designed to pad investors pockets at the cost of employees quality of life(they just -had- to squeeze it i before Christmas). It's something that wouldn't have been tolerated 20-30 years ago, but has become commonplace (in America) today.
Yah, and I work in a colocation facility thats 24/7. In fact, I'll be working this Christmas, Thanksgiving, and New Years unless I take vacation time. However, the difference between you and me, and the Bioware team is extremely simple. We are shift workers. I work my 8 hour shift, 40 hours a week, and the only time I work extra is when someone calls in sick or there are emergencies.
Game developers don't work that way. Those guys have been putting in +60 hour weeks for the past 6+ months, on salary. That is how crunch time works in the gaming industry, you get worked to the bone to make investor deadlines. They aren't shift workers, and they aren't even service related until the doors swing open.
The reward for finally putting out your finished product is usually time off. You deserve it after not having a life for months on end... but MMOs don't work that way because of their nature. To compoud that with the holiday's is a pure dick move that was designed to pad investors pockets at the cost of employees quality of life(they just -had- to squeeze it i before Christmas). It's something that wouldn't have been tolerated 20-30 years ago, but has become commonplace (in America) today.
Most game companies have some sort of 'profit sharing' scheme to compensate for 'crunch' time development as it is the only area in IT where 'crunch' is common.
In normal business software houses it isn't as common.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Yah, and I work in a colocation facility thats 24/7. In fact, I'll be working this Christmas, Thanksgiving, and New Years unless I take vacation time. However, the difference between you and me, and the Bioware team is extremely simple. We are shift workers. I work my 8 hour shift, 40 hours a week, and the only time I work extra is when someone calls in sick or there are emergencies.
Game developers don't work that way. Those guys have been putting in +60 hour weeks for the past 6+ months, on salary. That is how crunch time works in the gaming industry, you get worked to the bone to make investor deadlines. They aren't shift workers, and they aren't even service related until the doors swing open.
The reward for finally putting out your finished product is usually time off. You deserve it after not having a life for months on end... but MMOs don't work that way because of their nature. To compoud that with the holiday's is a pure dick move that was designed to pad investors pockets at the cost of employees quality of life(they just -had- to squeeze it i before Christmas). It's something that wouldn't have been tolerated 20-30 years ago, but has become commonplace (in America) today.
You know what to expect from your line of work, I know what to expect from mine, just as a game developer knows what to expect from their own. Holiday or not those people would be working through launch week, and they know it, yet they continue in their line of work because it's their passion, those who don't have that passion quit, just like any other career.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Game developers don't work that way. Those guys have been putting in +60 hour weeks for the past 6+ months, on salary. That is how crunch time works in the gaming industry, you get worked to the bone to make investor deadlines. They aren't shift workers, and they aren't even service related until the doors swing open.
The reward for finally putting out your finished product is usually time off. You deserve it after not having a life for months on end... but MMOs don't work that way because of their nature. To compoud that with the holiday's is a pure dick move that was designed to pad investors pockets at the cost of employees quality of life(they just -had- to squeeze it i before Christmas). It's something that wouldn't have been tolerated 20-30 years ago, but has become commonplace (in America) today.
There's a clear difference in professions even in the IT game/software industry: you have designers, developers, software engineers, application managers and network managers and admins.
As with all large software related projects, the designers and developers play a large role in the development stage of the project. But when the software will be rolled out, that's where the network management and maintenance crew kicks in: they're the ones that will play the largest role. If servers go down or crash, this isn't something that software/game developers can do much about, that's the expertise of the network maintenance and management teams.
So no, the people who developed the game in a prerelease trajectory usually aren't the same people who come into action when a game goes live, with whole server parks springing into action, especially if a company is large. Different expertises, different teams.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Yah, and I work in a colocation facility thats 24/7. In fact, I'll be working this Christmas, Thanksgiving, and New Years unless I take vacation time. However, the difference between you and me, and the Bioware team is extremely simple. We are shift workers. I work my 8 hour shift, 40 hours a week, and the only time I work extra is when someone calls in sick or there are emergencies.
Game developers don't work that way. Those guys have been putting in +60 hour weeks for the past 6+ months, on salary. That is how crunch time works in the gaming industry, you get worked to the bone to make investor deadlines. They aren't shift workers, and they aren't even service related until the doors swing open.
The reward for finally putting out your finished product is usually time off. You deserve it after not having a life for months on end... but MMOs don't work that way because of their nature. To compoud that with the holiday's is a pure dick move that was designed to pad investors pockets at the cost of employees quality of life(they just -had- to squeeze it i before Christmas). It's something that wouldn't have been tolerated 20-30 years ago, but has become commonplace (in America) today.
Sorry, the part in green just made me chuckle. 60hour weeks are actually fairly standard, and NOT crunch time. I think in my most extreme case, I had a project clocking me in at around ~110-120 hours per week; which lasted a couple months. Needless to say most of us were fried by the end of that.
A normal crunch week is usually around 80 hours+ (12hour+ days, and weekends). This does depend a lot on budget, and how many business rules the company is breaking to try and underpay it's employees. This doesn't generally happen with studios such as Bioware, especially after the big outcry over how EA was treating it's employees, but it does still happen. Typicaly it's the kids straight out of school who gets screwed over the worste.
In a normal production schedule, they usually start at around 40hrs a week (or less in extreme budget crunches), while they are doing tests for key features in the game, laying the groundwork, etc. Then sometime after mid-way through the production it usually starts ramping up (more people, more hours) until you have the final pushes which have everyone working insane amounts to get the product out, and to keep making tweaks & changes as they pop up.
- Also, the reward of 'time off' isn't usually what it seems. Many of the salary artists / programmers will have to ask for time off, and some may not get it. (Especially with an MMO, you still need people to maintain the game). Generally, it's the people they ramped up that get laid off (aka time off) and have to find somewhere else to work. This can either be a vacation for some, or a time of anxiety for others (spending much of that time job hunting). It really depends on what you do, how much experience you have, etc.
Most of the people working on TOR know all this though, and as I've mentioned Bioware is one of the better studios to work for.
Yah, and I work in a colocation facility thats 24/7. In fact, I'll be working this Christmas, Thanksgiving, and New Years unless I take vacation time. However, the difference between you and me, and the Bioware team is extremely simple. We are shift workers. I work my 8 hour shift, 40 hours a week, and the only time I work extra is when someone calls in sick or there are emergencies.
Game developers don't work that way. Those guys have been putting in +60 hour weeks for the past 6+ months, on salary. That is how crunch time works in the gaming industry, you get worked to the bone to make investor deadlines. They aren't shift workers, and they aren't even service related until the doors swing open.
The reward for finally putting out your finished product is usually time off. You deserve it after not having a life for months on end... but MMOs don't work that way because of their nature. To compoud that with the holiday's is a pure dick move that was designed to pad investors pockets at the cost of employees quality of life(they just -had- to squeeze it i before Christmas). It's something that wouldn't have been tolerated 20-30 years ago, but has become commonplace (in America) today.
You know what to expect from your line of work, I know what to expect from mine, just as a game developer knows what to expect from their own. Holiday or not those people would be working through launch week, and they know it, yet they continue in their line of work because it's their passion, those who don't have that passion quit, just like any other career.
So that gives companies a free pass to treat their workforce like shit? Its thinking like this that has degraded the quality of life for employees over the last couple decades.
Yah, and I work in a colocation facility thats 24/7. In fact, I'll be working this Christmas, Thanksgiving, and New Years unless I take vacation time. However, the difference between you and me, and the Bioware team is extremely simple. We are shift workers. I work my 8 hour shift, 40 hours a week, and the only time I work extra is when someone calls in sick or there are emergencies.
Game developers don't work that way. Those guys have been putting in +60 hour weeks for the past 6+ months, on salary. That is how crunch time works in the gaming industry, you get worked to the bone to make investor deadlines. They aren't shift workers, and they aren't even service related until the doors swing open.
The reward for finally putting out your finished product is usually time off. You deserve it after not having a life for months on end... but MMOs don't work that way because of their nature. To compoud that with the holiday's is a pure dick move that was designed to pad investors pockets at the cost of employees quality of life(they just -had- to squeeze it i before Christmas). It's something that wouldn't have been tolerated 20-30 years ago, but has become commonplace (in America) today.
You know what to expect from your line of work, I know what to expect from mine, just as a game developer knows what to expect from their own. Holiday or not those people would be working through launch week, and they know it, yet they continue in their line of work because it's their passion, those who don't have that passion quit, just like any other career.
So that gives companies a free pass to treat their workforce like shit? Its thinking like this that has degraded the quality of life for employees over the last couple decades.
If you feel like your company is treating you like shit, you can quit! Find another job and another company! People work as much or as little as they want in the U.S. I'm in finance - during quarter ends, I work a ton. On a game launch, designers and artists, etc. work a ton. We get lots of other perks in other places and we're free to find other employment.
Yah, and I work in a colocation facility thats 24/7. In fact, I'll be working this Christmas, Thanksgiving, and New Years unless I take vacation time. However, the difference between you and me, and the Bioware team is extremely simple. We are shift workers. I work my 8 hour shift, 40 hours a week, and the only time I work extra is when someone calls in sick or there are emergencies.
Game developers don't work that way. Those guys have been putting in +60 hour weeks for the past 6+ months, on salary. That is how crunch time works in the gaming industry, you get worked to the bone to make investor deadlines. They aren't shift workers, and they aren't even service related until the doors swing open.
The reward for finally putting out your finished product is usually time off. You deserve it after not having a life for months on end... but MMOs don't work that way because of their nature. To compoud that with the holiday's is a pure dick move that was designed to pad investors pockets at the cost of employees quality of life(they just -had- to squeeze it i before Christmas). It's something that wouldn't have been tolerated 20-30 years ago, but has become commonplace (in America) today.
You know what to expect from your line of work, I know what to expect from mine, just as a game developer knows what to expect from their own. Holiday or not those people would be working through launch week, and they know it, yet they continue in their line of work because it's their passion, those who don't have that passion quit, just like any other career.
So that gives companies a free pass to treat their workforce like shit? Its thinking like this that has degraded the quality of life for employees over the last couple decades.
If you feel like your company is treating you like shit, you can quit! Find another job and another company! People work as much or as little as they want in the U.S. I'm in finance - during quarter ends, I work a ton. On a game launch, designers and artists, etc. work a ton. We get lots of other perks in other places and we're free to find other employment.
Your justifying your own piss poor work conditions. Congratulations, your why this country works longer hours and has less vacation than almost any other first world country. The corporations would like to give you a pat on the back for being such a trooper while they make record profits and unemployment is at record highs while you pull down 60 hours a week instead of them hiring another person.
People talking about these Bioware employees like they're slaves or something LOL...
Seriously, have you guys SEEN some of the sweet conditions they use to RECRUIT people? Nap times (paid), on site childcare (paid), free snacks, relaxation rooms (paid). Heck, look at some of the behind the scenes at places LIKE Pixar where it's practically HEAVEN (and you KNOW those guys are salaried too right).
If you don't like your company, leave. Alot of these do when they get sick of some of the corporate policy and create their own companies.
I don't feel bad for them. They had a decent time up til now, the last 6 months is crunch time.
I swear, if you say ToR or GW2 anymore someone is going to CRY and COMPLAIN about SOMETHING. If it's not no release date, it's about the poor employees, or the monthly subs, or whatever.
You could always go live in socialist russia where all the conditions sucked across the board. But hey man, it was all equal. (rolls eyes)
I don't believe in such stuff but seeing that my WoW subscription (playing for six years) ends on December 22nd makes me think that this is definitely an omen. A good one i'd say.
Comments
I assure you that Bioware's IT and CS department make up a vastly larger percentage than 5% of their employee base. In addition, I wouldn't be surprised if their marketing & sales guys are neck deep in advertising campaigns for the 1st couple weeks of the game's launch. Even the executive staff will be balls deep in metrics and investor meetings.
Maybe the arts department (graphics & writing) will get some time off. But you're pretty pie in the sky if you think anyone else will. It's well documented that the gaming industry works its people incredibly hard.
If someone wants a 9-5 job in IT, the gaming industry is not the place for them.
However, if you are a developer, the gaming industry is one of the few IT industry where they have a 'profit sharing' clause.
You want a stable 100k job that goes 9-5? The business sector is it.
You want a really intense schedule but comes with a 500k bonus after 3-4 years? The gaming industry.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Nice, now i can play BF3, then Batman, then kill myself in Skyrim before SWTOR put the final nail on my coffin.
Let me see...
The Star Wars MMO I've been waiting for since practically my whole life or Christmas....
Yup... Bioware has not just cancelled Christmas... they destroyed it like the Death Star did to Alderaan.
Obviously you and every one else who is motivated enough to post in this thread.
-Azure Prower
http://www.youtube.com/AzurePrower
Thats cool though I knew it would be, I kept telling my friend I bet its December, should have added some money to that bet lol.
lol gg
I work for a hotel company. its a 24 hour 365 day a year business. It doesnt close for holidays or anything of the sort. Some people are lucky and get holidays off and some arent. Thats just the way it goes. I dont understand all the hoopla I keep seeing if Bioware employees are getting christmas off.
Yah, and I work in a colocation facility thats 24/7. In fact, I'll be working this Christmas, Thanksgiving, and New Years unless I take vacation time. However, the difference between you and me, and the Bioware team is extremely simple. We are shift workers. I work my 8 hour shift, 40 hours a week, and the only time I work extra is when someone calls in sick or there are emergencies.
Game developers don't work that way. Those guys have been putting in +60 hour weeks for the past 6+ months, on salary. That is how crunch time works in the gaming industry, you get worked to the bone to make investor deadlines. They aren't shift workers, and they aren't even service related until the doors swing open.
The reward for finally putting out your finished product is usually time off. You deserve it after not having a life for months on end... but MMOs don't work that way because of their nature. To compoud that with the holiday's is a pure dick move that was designed to pad investors pockets at the cost of employees quality of life(they just -had- to squeeze it i before Christmas). It's something that wouldn't have been tolerated 20-30 years ago, but has become commonplace (in America) today.
Most game companies have some sort of 'profit sharing' scheme to compensate for 'crunch' time development as it is the only area in IT where 'crunch' is common.
In normal business software houses it isn't as common.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
You know what to expect from your line of work, I know what to expect from mine, just as a game developer knows what to expect from their own. Holiday or not those people would be working through launch week, and they know it, yet they continue in their line of work because it's their passion, those who don't have that passion quit, just like any other career.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
There's a clear difference in professions even in the IT game/software industry: you have designers, developers, software engineers, application managers and network managers and admins.
As with all large software related projects, the designers and developers play a large role in the development stage of the project. But when the software will be rolled out, that's where the network management and maintenance crew kicks in: they're the ones that will play the largest role. If servers go down or crash, this isn't something that software/game developers can do much about, that's the expertise of the network maintenance and management teams.
So no, the people who developed the game in a prerelease trajectory usually aren't the same people who come into action when a game goes live, with whole server parks springing into action, especially if a company is large. Different expertises, different teams.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Sorry, the part in green just made me chuckle. 60hour weeks are actually fairly standard, and NOT crunch time. I think in my most extreme case, I had a project clocking me in at around ~110-120 hours per week; which lasted a couple months. Needless to say most of us were fried by the end of that.
A normal crunch week is usually around 80 hours+ (12hour+ days, and weekends). This does depend a lot on budget, and how many business rules the company is breaking to try and underpay it's employees. This doesn't generally happen with studios such as Bioware, especially after the big outcry over how EA was treating it's employees, but it does still happen. Typicaly it's the kids straight out of school who gets screwed over the worste.
In a normal production schedule, they usually start at around 40hrs a week (or less in extreme budget crunches), while they are doing tests for key features in the game, laying the groundwork, etc. Then sometime after mid-way through the production it usually starts ramping up (more people, more hours) until you have the final pushes which have everyone working insane amounts to get the product out, and to keep making tweaks & changes as they pop up.
- Also, the reward of 'time off' isn't usually what it seems. Many of the salary artists / programmers will have to ask for time off, and some may not get it. (Especially with an MMO, you still need people to maintain the game). Generally, it's the people they ramped up that get laid off (aka time off) and have to find somewhere else to work. This can either be a vacation for some, or a time of anxiety for others (spending much of that time job hunting). It really depends on what you do, how much experience you have, etc.
Most of the people working on TOR know all this though, and as I've mentioned Bioware is one of the better studios to work for.
So that gives companies a free pass to treat their workforce like shit? Its thinking like this that has degraded the quality of life for employees over the last couple decades.
If you feel like your company is treating you like shit, you can quit! Find another job and another company! People work as much or as little as they want in the U.S. I'm in finance - during quarter ends, I work a ton. On a game launch, designers and artists, etc. work a ton. We get lots of other perks in other places and we're free to find other employment.
Your justifying your own piss poor work conditions. Congratulations, your why this country works longer hours and has less vacation than almost any other first world country. The corporations would like to give you a pat on the back for being such a trooper while they make record profits and unemployment is at record highs while you pull down 60 hours a week instead of them hiring another person.
props to bioware my birtday was sept 24th i wake up see release date and im like OMFG nice birthday presant makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside
People talking about these Bioware employees like they're slaves or something LOL...
Seriously, have you guys SEEN some of the sweet conditions they use to RECRUIT people? Nap times (paid), on site childcare (paid), free snacks, relaxation rooms (paid). Heck, look at some of the behind the scenes at places LIKE Pixar where it's practically HEAVEN (and you KNOW those guys are salaried too right).
If you don't like your company, leave. Alot of these do when they get sick of some of the corporate policy and create their own companies.
I don't feel bad for them. They had a decent time up til now, the last 6 months is crunch time.
I swear, if you say ToR or GW2 anymore someone is going to CRY and COMPLAIN about SOMETHING. If it's not no release date, it's about the poor employees, or the monthly subs, or whatever.
You could always go live in socialist russia where all the conditions sucked across the board. But hey man, it was all equal. (rolls eyes)
I don't believe in such stuff but seeing that my WoW subscription (playing for six years) ends on December 22nd makes me think that this is definitely an omen. A good one i'd say.