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Aion gone "Pay to Win" now

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  • BoardwalkerBoardwalker Member UncommonPosts: 388

    Originally posted by nomraw

    Originally posted by Boardwalker


    Originally posted by Kuraphimaru

    And yet, there will still be folks who will say that this game is marvellous and everything is great in the land of NCSoft.

     

    Count me in this group. I heard this news yesterday, logged in last night, and still had a fun time. Go figure.

    Kura was being sarcastic....

    Eitherways, whatever delusion makes you happy :-)

     

    Yep, if  delusian means ignoring hyperbolic comments on a message board and having a good time playing a game, I'm guilty.

    They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair.
    Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D
    Play EVE for free for 21 days

  • DurrayDurray Member UncommonPosts: 182

    I should state I have been playing this game for 2 years and I peronsally find this addition only mildly annoying

    A lof of people posting here do not play the game and frankly love any reason to bash: Aion, NCsoft, Asian games...

    Manastone socketing isn't easy but its hardly a massive issue, i have socketed numerous cleric sets with Magic Resist. Its not fun or easy but completly doable. Frankly if you actually play end game Aion and PvP then you will have socketed your armour np. No one in my legion (SoulRippers number 1 on Telemachus UK/EU) has complained of this being a massive issue or struggles to socket. (enchanting is a different matter! But these dont work for enchanting only socketing)

    I am rambling, what I am saying is this isn't pay to win. Since you your gear should be socketed to start with or if you have a new set of 55 fable/eternal you will have the funds to socket it. Yes, they are milking the cash cow some more and if people are stupid enough to pay, let them. I lead sieges and do not beleive for a second this will change the face of Aion PvP, sieges or introduce any pay2win dominance. Piss off some players however....

    I logged in today after work enjoyed the game and logged off. Its almost like nothings has changed. Relax people.

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

    Unlike Rift this is a game that I think is very likely to go F2P in the west really soon.

    Moves like this isn't exactly encouraging people to start playing it or return.

  • EricDanieEricDanie Member UncommonPosts: 2,238

    Originally posted by MmoSwan

    7 eternal abyss gear pieces are 42 slots. 3 socketing items cost $12. That means you need to buy 14 $12-packages, adding up to $168 per gear set - which means you pay an extra year of fees for a single gear set. And all that to work around a totally broken socketing system. Isn't it marvelous how NcSoft rips off their players?

    That would be pretty stupid. This system only gets frustrating (which means when you start having to save money for a few days/weeks for another attempt spree) from the 4th slot onwards. Using it for the 1st~3rd ones is an extremely stupid waste of money, even by the standards of someone desperate enough to bend over to using money to bypass a game mechanic.

    It's this kind of monopoly that is why no player can fully trust a company that has taken even a single step away from a standard business model - in this case the $15 monthly fee. It doesn't matter if you don't care because the specific step is "just optional fluff" or "is just an extra X dollars you can easily afford", these things won't really stop. World of Warcraft is still limiting itself to pets, mounts and a premium auction house account service, but that's because they ended up not charging for the cross-server realID party feature. It's kind of weird how so much money spam goes on the trade chat though, but maybe they're just tracking them all so they can make an unholy rage operation someday.

  • DerWotanDerWotan Member Posts: 1,012

    God I wish they would allow europeans joining the ArcheAge beta somehow. I'm so done with NC West first they've dumbed down Aion since 2.0 and now p2w on top of a monthly fee.

    The game had a loyal fanbase and now these clowns in suits are risking it. Logged 20 min ago and already 10 friends of mine are canceling too. Its a shame cause its a curtious and more challenging game than all the easymode crap outthere.

    We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!

    "Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
    "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."

  • pedrostrikpedrostrik Member UncommonPosts: 396

    Originally posted by Shrilly

    Cash shop on top of a sub fee.... Wow NC screw you good seriously that is MESSED UP. You see how greedy people are these days? Praise GW2 for how it really should be buy the game and have fun!

    forget it about ncsoft its the GW2 publisher so?

    i hope u have the reason but somehow i think ncsoft will screw up GW2 , just guessing

  • KuraphimaruKuraphimaru Member UncommonPosts: 1,290

    Originally posted by pedrostrik

    Originally posted by Shrilly

    Cash shop on top of a sub fee.... Wow NC screw you good seriously that is MESSED UP. You see how greedy people are these days? Praise GW2 for how it really should be buy the game and have fun!

    forget it about ncsoft its the GW2 publisher so?

    i hope u have the reason but somehow i think ncsoft will screw up GW2 , just guessing

    My greatest fear regarding GW2 is that NC will screw A-net over somehow.

    image

  • xK3runexK3rune Member Posts: 100

    Here come the forum warriors that don't play. Seriously, a lot of us are logging in the game and don't/won't notice the difference. Stop bashing for every dumb reason and figure out what MMO you wanna play already.

  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,673

    Don't people realise NCwest have little to no control over this? If the Korean servers want it to happen, then from what I have heard, they have to do it as well. I'm sure they could push them to accept not doing that, but I don't think it would work. There is always the option to ignore or not spend any money. I'm sure people will always buy P2W crap if it comes out, there is a small crowd who has the money to do it. The socketing in Aion is a lot like +ing weapons in Lineage 2. It worked fine in Lineage 2, I hardly ever heard people complain that their items broke, they just knew it was part of the game. It was risk vs reward and it really added to the gameplay value, you could potentially make an item you had freaking awesome, or it could break. It was dangerous but like gambling it paid off occasionally, but in the long run you lost a lot as well.

  • fenistilfenistil Member Posts: 3,005

    Who cares if NCWest want it or not?

    I don't want things like that in game I am playing. Peroid.

     

    I was defending and promoting Aion. Well now this end, same as Aion won't get single $ out of me again.

     

    Bye bye

  • ZetsueiZetsuei Member UncommonPosts: 249

    Originally posted by Kuraphimaru

    Originally posted by pedrostrik


    Originally posted by Shrilly

    Cash shop on top of a sub fee.... Wow NC screw you good seriously that is MESSED UP. You see how greedy people are these days? Praise GW2 for how it really should be buy the game and have fun!

    forget it about ncsoft its the GW2 publisher so?

    i hope u have the reason but somehow i think ncsoft will screw up GW2 , just guessing

    My greatest fear regarding GW2 is that NC will screw A-net over somehow.

    I wish people would realize the difference between East and West versions of companies. If you read the twitter the guy posted above us it clearly said it came from Korea. One audience might welcome a change and another might say its the death of a game. In the end wherever the game is from, they usuaully have the last word regarding changes to a game. There is exceptions to this rule, but those games are rare.

    As far as GW2 goes, they aren't stupid. They don't need to milk their userbase. They know they are making a solid great game. I just wish people would think about who they blame and realize its not always their fault when something bad happens. Unless its Activision. Anything they touch is tainted.

  • MmoSwanMmoSwan Member Posts: 134

    Originally posted by Durray

    I am rambling, what I am saying is this isn't pay to win. Since you your gear should be socketed to start with or if you have a new set of 55 fable/eternal you will have the funds to socket it. Yes, they are milking the cash cow some more and if people are stupid enough to pay, let them. I lead sieges and do not beleive for a second this will change the face of Aion PvP, sieges or introduce any pay2win dominance. Piss off some players however....

    I logged in today after work enjoyed the game and logged off. Its almost like nothings has changed. Relax people.

    Some people socket their gear with 50-100m, other spend a billion and still work on the first piece of gear. I've seen far too many of the people on my friend list quit because of the far too annoying RNG. At first they were quitting because they failed miragent quest 10+ times, later they were quitting because they spent billions on enchant stones and mana stones and didnt get their gear finshed because they didnt have enough luck to do so. Of course there are also plenty of people that don't have any issues, but face it, luck isn't something the player has any effect on - and if you are unlucky you are nykerked in Aion, there's absolutely nothing that you can do.

    As for you not noticing any effect, I don't wonder, the change isn't available for long and the price for the items is so high that it must feel like a scam to most.

    || Languages for gamers: http://gamerslingo.com
    /where God
    ERROR: Target could not be found
    /target Believer
    /skill science
    You missed your target since Believer ignores science
    /skill logic
    You missed your target since Believer traded all his INT for faith.

  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 3,584

    Originally posted by MmoSwan

    Originally posted by Durray

    I am rambling, what I am saying is this isn't pay to win. Since you your gear should be socketed to start with or if you have a new set of 55 fable/eternal you will have the funds to socket it. Yes, they are milking the cash cow some more and if people are stupid enough to pay, let them. I lead sieges and do not beleive for a second this will change the face of Aion PvP, sieges or introduce any pay2win dominance. Piss off some players however....

    I logged in today after work enjoyed the game and logged off. Its almost like nothings has changed. Relax people.

    Some people socket their gear with 50-100m, other spend a billion and still work on the first piece of gear. I've seen far too many of the people on my friend list quit because of the far too annoying RNG. At first they were quitting because they failed miragent quest 10+ times, later they were quitting because they spent billions on enchant stones and mana stones and didnt get their gear finshed because they didnt have enough luck to do so. Of course there are also plenty of people that don't have any issues, but face it, luck isn't something the player has any effect on - and if you are unlucky you are nykerked in Aion, there's absolutely nothing that you can do.

    As for you not noticing any effect, I don't wonder, the change isn't available for long and the price for the items is so high that it must feel like a scam to most.

    you don't need to socket with green manastones you know, get the white ones till you can afford and have luck on, if you really need like 20-30 extra points on a stats just to kill someone else, I think you are bad, pve is easy enough to do it in blues, pvp where is the fun will depend more on what you do then just 20-30 points, several peeps who quit the game are lazy and really no one miss then, unless of course you like to farm over people who can't play right, and luck is still range, one rule normally you should do is when try to socket or enchanting and you tend to fail a lot you should stop and do it another day. but I know now people will try to troll me, that CS thing on a P2P games.... only reason they poull that off is because we have morons who buy there, you would think people are smart but, we always get people who tell us otherwise, a NVM when GW2 come several peeps will change to that, and if even taht fail I can always hope for 2012

    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • heimdall22heimdall22 Member UncommonPosts: 76

    Originally posted by Durray

    I should state I have been playing this game for 2 years and I peronsally find this addition only mildly annoying

    A lof of people posting here do not play the game and frankly love any reason to bash: Aion, NCsoft, Asian games...

    I played Aion. And I really loved it at start. For beautiful and immersive world, behind beautiful landscapes, fantastic graphics etc... Until I realised all of the mechanics behind it...

    Manastone socketing isn't easy but its hardly a massive issue, i have socketed numerous cleric sets with Magic Resist. Its not fun or easy but completly doable. Frankly if you actually play end game Aion and PvP then you will have socketed your armour np. No one in my legion (SoulRippers number 1 on Telemachus UK/EU) has complained of this being a massive issue or struggles to socket. (enchanting is a different matter! But these dont work for enchanting only socketing)

    I am rambling, what I am saying is this isn't pay to win. Since you your gear should be socketed to start with or if you have a new set of 55 fable/eternal you will have the funds to socket it. Yes, they are milking the cash cow some more and if people are stupid enough to pay, let them. I lead sieges and do not beleive for a second this will change the face of Aion PvP, sieges or introduce any pay2win dominance. Piss off some players however....

    I think that you really don't understand what is the issue here. Try to think logically - what is really happening is that NCSoft is selling you something that overcome game mechanics which essentialy boils down that you're getting nice and tidy shiortcut for your real money. because no matter how you wanna look at it, you are buying your time. Why?

    Because to get manastones, you need to spend your in-game money (getting money cost RL time) or you may try to get it yourself, which yet again, takes time, amongst skills, effort etc. So from the perspective of game mechanics, you may buy your in-game time for real money. And that I can't accept in already P2P game. I'm definately done with that. 

    So it isn't P2W per se, but it is P2 get advantage over the ones that don't. Seriously, how can't you see that it is not right?

     

    I logged in today after work enjoyed the game and logged off. Its almost like nothings has changed. Relax people.

    What did you expect? Spanish Inquisition?

     

    Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone elses opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation

  • strangepowersstrangepowers Member UncommonPosts: 630

    Originally posted by Sukiyaki

    Blame the rats asking for it and supporting this.

    Blame youself for not condeming you friends and guildsmates in public to use cashshop advantages.

    Blame yourself for not pushing the cashshops into a "social" taboo zone, your guildmates or friends would be too ashamed to use when playing the same game as you do...

    It another temporary event checking out what YOU player, too often hiding behind a coat of innocence, are paying for and willingly or unwillingly supporting. If the reaction is silence and just a few people paying for it, it will happen again.

    It's so sad but I have been saying this for years and I never get any support.

     

    I am so glad someone else gets it. 

     

    Unfortunately our current society is only going to get worse with the entitlement generation getting older… it’s a nation of Moo Cows out there. This is not my idea,  it’s researched, documented and published. 

  • MmoSwanMmoSwan Member Posts: 134

    Originally posted by alkarionlog

    you don't need to socket with green manastones you know, get the white ones till you can afford and have luck on, if you really need like 20-30 extra points on a stats just to kill someone else, I think you are bad, pve is easy enough to do it in blues, pvp where is the fun will depend more on what you do then just 20-30 points, several peeps who quit the game are lazy and really no one miss then, unless of course you like to farm over people who can't play right, and luck is still range, one rule normally you should do is when try to socket or enchanting and you tend to fail a lot you should stop and do it another day. but I know now people will try to troll me, that CS thing on a P2P games.... only reason they poull that off is because we have morons who buy there, you would think people are smart but, we always get people who tell us otherwise, a NVM when GW2 come several peeps will change to that, and if even taht fail I can always hope for 2012

    No offense but that "if you fail, do it some other day" rule is working as great as other theories like "first socket whites". They are both rather esoteric and don't really change anything at all.

    As for socketing whites, it doesn't work for everyone, eg I had the big problems with socketing on a cleric which needed MR stones which don't have decent whites alternatives. The white items stats are so terribly low that it's not worth socketing them at all. I still remember how I bought 250 MR +12 stones for the 40AP set and failed to socket a single gear piece. Poof 400m gone.

    And calling people doing Miragent Quest for more then 10 times or taking similar efforts with AP runs, SW runs or whatever *lazy* seems a bit off the record imo.

     

    || Languages for gamers: http://gamerslingo.com
    /where God
    ERROR: Target could not be found
    /target Believer
    /skill science
    You missed your target since Believer ignores science
    /skill logic
    You missed your target since Believer traded all his INT for faith.

  • heimdall22heimdall22 Member UncommonPosts: 76

    Originally posted by alkarionlog

    you don't need to socket with green manastones you know, get the white ones till you can afford and have luck on, if you really need like 20-30 extra points on a stats just to kill someone else, I think you are bad, pve is easy enough to do it in blues, pvp where is the fun will depend more on what you do then just 20-30 points, several peeps who quit the game are lazy and really no one miss then, unless of course you like to farm over people who can't play right, and luck is still range, one rule normally you should do is when try to socket or enchanting and you tend to fail a lot you should stop and do it another day. but I know now people will try to troll me, that CS thing on a P2P games.... only reason they poull that off is because we have morons who buy there, you would think people are smart but, we always get people who tell us otherwise, a NVM when GW2 come several peeps will change to that, and if even taht fail I can always hope for 2012

    Are you really such an arrogant fool to call those that left Aion lazy?

    Have it ever crossed your mind that simply game didn't deliver what was promised by it's publishers? That maybe it didn't match other players expectations? Or perhaps they don't want to participate in mindnumbing, boring treadmill to get their shiny from time to time? Or maybe they don't understand why the only thing that remotely resembles fun is limited only 3 times a day at awkward hours (well, they do - to keep you playing longer, because there's only treadmill here, so you can't get your items too fast).

    Maybe there are some people out there that want to have fun while playing and they don't wish to have second job just to be able to impress others with their "well deserved" rewards?

    Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone elses opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation

  • KuraphimaruKuraphimaru Member UncommonPosts: 1,290



    Originally posted by Kraiser


    Originally posted by Kuraphimaru


    Originally posted by pedrostrik


    Originally posted by Shrilly

    Cash shop on top of a sub fee.... Wow NC screw you good seriously that is MESSED UP. You see how greedy people are these days? Praise GW2 for how it really should be buy the game and have fun!

    forget it about ncsoft its the GW2 publisher so?
    i hope u have the reason but somehow i think ncsoft will screw up GW2 , just guessing

    My greatest fear regarding GW2 is that NC will screw A-net over somehow.

    I wish people would realize the difference between East and West versions of companies. If you read the twitter the guy posted above us it clearly said it came from Korea. One audience might welcome a change and another might say its the death of a game. In the end wherever the game is from, they usuaully have the last word regarding changes to a game. There is exceptions to this rule, but those games are rare.
    As far as GW2 goes, they aren't stupid. They don't need to milk their userbase. They know they are making a solid great game. I just wish people would think about who they blame and realize its not always their fault when something bad happens. Unless its Activision. Anything they touch is tainted.

    And I wish people would realize that ArenaNet is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Korean company NCsoft, publishers of other MMORPGs such as City of Heroes and Lineage 2 Meaning that they have full control over Anet. Implying that in their infinite wisdom they can enforce some sort of get-rich-quick scheme and Anet will have to comply with it. And that's what Im afraid of happening, not saying it will but I don't rule out it will not.

    image

  • ThaneThane Member EpicPosts: 3,530

    the korean love mini games, and that's what socketing is to them.

     

    they are happy and proud once they reached the max, because they have no problem with grinding it again once it failed (shocking news, they love grinding).

    i actually wonder why they came up with such a solution in the first place ^^

     

    doesn't make much sense to me.

     

     

    anyway, it's much like the US/EU problem. korea doesnt give a shit about the western world.

    how much do you americans care for us europeans again? *G*

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • itgrowlsitgrowls Member Posts: 2,951

    Originally posted by MmoSwan

    http://uk.aiononline.com/news/announcements/limited-time-felicitous-socketing-supplements-ncsoft-store

    A sad day for Aion. NcSoft fixing their broken game with a cash shop. Now you got the option to spend 1000s of hours of grind to beat the random number generator or to pay extra $$$.

    Uhm i hate to break it to you but this isn't pay to win, it's called Pay to Enhance, that's not the same as pay to win. Pay to win is where you can buy entire armor sets, entire weapon sets that are on par with max raid content gear. It's where your games gear directly effects your toons damage output. Buying enhancements for gear is nowhere near the same thing.

     

    To use World of Warcraft as an example, because so many do, this is the equivolent of buying enchantments for your weapons and armor with real life money.

     

    But i do agree, their game is broken ESPECIALLY if they are still using a failure mechanic at max skill for any kind of gear enhancement. That's just plain rediculous. It's as rediculous as the mechanic used in EQX for crafting anything.

  • MMOtoGOMMOtoGO Member Posts: 630

    Originally posted by itgrowls

    Originally posted by MmoSwan

    http://uk.aiononline.com/news/announcements/limited-time-felicitous-socketing-supplements-ncsoft-store

    A sad day for Aion. NcSoft fixing their broken game with a cash shop. Now you got the option to spend 1000s of hours of grind to beat the random number generator or to pay extra $$$.

    Uhm i hate to break it to you but this isn't pay to win, it's called Pay to Enhance...

    So what does this "enhancement" do? It makes you hit harder, live longer...it helps you win.  You pay money, you save the insane amount of gold/time it takes to achieve the equivalent in-game.  It's literally millions and millions of gold and potentially months of time.  What you say is true... a bad player who spends real life money might still lose.

  • JorielJoriel Member UncommonPosts: 177

    wats up with all the QQ about this cash item, u want it you buy, you dont want it you dont have to buy, simple as that, in my case ill just continue with the old socketing system.

    image

  • itgrowlsitgrowls Member Posts: 2,951

    Originally posted by MMOtoGO

    Originally posted by itgrowls


    Originally posted by MmoSwan

    http://uk.aiononline.com/news/announcements/limited-time-felicitous-socketing-supplements-ncsoft-store

    A sad day for Aion. NcSoft fixing their broken game with a cash shop. Now you got the option to spend 1000s of hours of grind to beat the random number generator or to pay extra $$$.

    Uhm i hate to break it to you but this isn't pay to win, it's called Pay to Enhance...

    So what does this "enhancement" do? It makes you hit harder, live longer...it helps you win.  You pay money, you save the insane amount of gold/time it takes to achieve the equivalent in-game.  It's literally millions and millions of gold and potentially months of time.  What you say is true... a bad player who spends real life money might still lose.

    a tiny enhancement is still not enough to allow you to win. It's only a tiny enhancement. Like it or not it's still not pay to win. It's pay to save time. (and apparently save lots of sub money and heartache since they apparently still have failure in enchanting in this way in game) but that's it. If they sold gear, then yes it would be pay to win because gear by itself with it's stats enhancements would give you a huge advantage over just one or two points in enhancements. It's a tiny enhancement compared to the stats enhancements on gear. So yes it might give you a 1-2% increase in health or damage but that's not an instant win button, sorry, the math for this doesn't work that way.

  • CeridithCeridith Member UncommonPosts: 2,980

    Originally posted by itgrowls

    Originally posted by MmoSwan

    http://uk.aiononline.com/news/announcements/limited-time-felicitous-socketing-supplements-ncsoft-store

    A sad day for Aion. NcSoft fixing their broken game with a cash shop. Now you got the option to spend 1000s of hours of grind to beat the random number generator or to pay extra $$$.

    Uhm i hate to break it to you but this isn't pay to win, it's called Pay to Enhance, that's not the same as pay to win. Pay to win is where you can buy entire armor sets, entire weapon sets that are on par with max raid content gear. It's where your games gear directly effects your toons damage output. Buying enhancements for gear is nowhere near the same thing.

     

    To use World of Warcraft as an example, because so many do, this is the equivolent of buying enchantments for your weapons and armor with real life money.

     

    But i do agree, their game is broken ESPECIALLY if they are still using a failure mechanic at max skill for any kind of gear enhancement. That's just plain rediculous. It's as rediculous as the mechanic used in EQX for crafting anything.

    It's still pay to win, because you're paying extra money to guarantee you do not fail. Not failing is succeeding, which is synonymous with winning. It's not an "I win" button, but it is paying to win the 'mini-game' lottery that is socketing.

    The socketing system is an intentionally designed inconvenience that's been put into the game, that many players seem to outright despise. Instead of actually correcting the system and changing it into something players would tolerate better, or actually enjoy, they instead sell a "solution" to an intentionally created problem. That's pretty damn sleezy from a business point of view.

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,580

    Originally posted by MMOtoGO

    THIS.  This right here frustrates me to no end.  It's validating what so many have said for so long about Korean games released in the West.  I wanted to naysayers to be wrong.  I'm just not sure I can keep investing in games where it's run by people who have absolutely no control whatsoever.  I'm not writing off Aion or Korean games, but this puts a dent in the armor in my book :(

    This lame bullshit excuse is the number one reason I left Lineage in the first place.  I loved that game, but every broken feature, every bot/hacking problem, every bad implementation, and every thing about the game was met with:

    NCWest: NCKorea hasn't approved that, or NCKorerea is deciding on a solution, or NCKorea said screw you so there isn't anything we can do.

    NCKorea:  *crickets*

    NCWest is a joke.  The fact that they own both Carbine and Arena Net really bothers me concerning how those games will end up running.

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


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