at this point FTP is probably the best thing SOE can do right now. they have burnt so many bridges with the players that most people wont even try a game of theirs unless its a free trial or somthing first.
who in their right minds wants to buy a pay a monthly sub for a SOE game these days? not many people.
FPS and F2P doesn't mix, because as some others have noted it becomes P2W. And we are talking about SOE here: they will bungle it horribly and tell the players to go screw themselves the second they get any negative feedback.
I see people saying things like oh its not expensive to pay for things while others say it is. Either way its money that needs to be spent and for those of use who are in rather poor families money is not something we can simply dish out. If your rich hell great for you but we would like to play to end game without having to dish out cash for great items. I dont mind having to work the extra hours to earn the gear you can pay for because mommy and daddy can afford it. Anyways just saying some of us need to have the ability to earn those same items through work cause if its only available in the cash shop then gaming companies are just stealing.
Smedley likes F2P. Smedley started liking F2P while he was into PvE where it (might, could, may) make sense. Smedley is not really knowing of what he's talking about. Smedley is a nice guy and has a nice smile but Smedley really doesn't know where it's at. Maybe somebody put stop to Smedley. Someone who has money invested. Is SOE really that altruistic? What is the leverage this Smedley guy has over Sony entertainment investors? I mean, this guy is costing investors MILLIONS. What's his angle? Does he have kinky negatives in a Swiss vault or something?
B2P is F2P and vis versa, i hate how ppl hate on the ftp. You get to try a game before you put any money down. No games are free. This is the real world ppl, if you like it, buy it
B2P is F2P and vis versa, i hate how ppl hate on the ftp. You get to try a game before you put any money down. No games are free. This is the real world ppl, if you like it, buy it
So you make a trial and then B2P option. Presto. Like in the old days. Fair and square.
But oh no... Old Smedley likes F2P... He likes the soft touch. He wants to draw you in slowly...
/out of dripping sarcasm mode: Yeah, I'd give ol' Smed 50$ to play "his"* game fairly. But I'm not gunna give him one bloody cent for the beggary pathetic creepy travesty that is f2p.
Oh and btw I play TF2. It's fantastic. Best online FPS Ive played in years. Shame about the creepy pathetic money shop tho. I'd give'em the money if they asked fairly. I hate being conned into anything and f2p model is just a con. It's disgraceful.
*"his" - jeezus THE most reactionary game producer alive. The conformist. The clueless "I just wanna fit in, what's sellin this season" guy" is now into 3-faction Pvp. Makes me puke. Why doesn't he finally f***k off, grow balls and starts doing whatever it's his real calling because game design surely isn't. (Write a novel? Have a life-changing trip to Cambodia?) I'll bet a million bucks he actually hates games and gamers. Just move on buddy, just move on.
Free to play in any sort of FPS style game seems to always mean P2W. Which is unfortunate.
World of Tanks is like that. In order to get anywhere near the end, you really need to spend money. If that amount of money were somewhere near the usual $15 a month, I would be good with that. But folks drop a LOT more than that, and in order to really participate at the high end, it becomes the same issue.
I would much rather have a pay to play situation...oh well. I also dont mind Free to play with a subsctiption option like LotRO, that way both styles are catered to.
[Mod Edit]
1- there are several players I know in teir X tanks on WoT that have never spent a dime on the game and yet still use gold ammo in clan wars & regularly win matches.
2- there are ways to get gold (cash currency) in game that dont have anything to do with spending real life cash
3- there is virtually nothing you can get with $$$ that can't be gotten without using $$$ (no cash-only items)
4-gold items offer minor advantages at best, but do not bork the competition.
That pretty much busts the comment that WoT is P2W. Yes, there are players hoarding or buying gold and running gold ammo/consumables/ect in every fight that can be a bit annoying. However, those people Can and Do get killed.
What I have heard from P2 is that cash items will be, like, individualized looks for your clan, ect.
The F2P = P2W rant is getting a little tired and old. Yes, some games are like that but IMHO its less and less becoming P2W and more & more becoming P2 look cool, get to the end quicker, ect.
In summation, as long as a "pay" option only allows things that can be gotten without cash, does not bring huge advantages, and does not upset the balance of the game.. it is NOT P2W.
Free to play in any sort of FPS style game seems to always mean P2W. Which is unfortunate.
World of Tanks is like that. In order to get anywhere near the end, you really need to spend money. If that amount of money were somewhere near the usual $15 a month, I would be good with that. But folks drop a LOT more than that, and in order to really participate at the high end, it becomes the same issue.
I would much rather have a pay to play situation...oh well. I also dont mind Free to play with a subsctiption option like LotRO, that way both styles are catered to.
This comment is fail and highlights the integral misunderstanding IMHO of the current F2P w cash shop field.
1- there are several players I know in teir X tanks on WoT that have never spent a dime on the game and yet still use gold ammo in clan wars & regularly win matches.
2- there are ways to get gold (cash currency) in game that dont have anything to do with spending real life cash
3- there is virtually nothing you can get with $$$ that can't be gotten without using $$$ (no cash-only items)
4-gold items offer minor advantages at best, but do not bork the competition.
That pretty much busts the comment that WoT is P2W. Yes, there are players hoarding or buying gold and running gold ammo/consumables/ect in every fight that can be a bit annoying. However, those people Can and Do get killed.
What I have heard from P2 is that cash items will be, like, individualized looks for your clan, ect.
The F2P = P2W rant is getting a little tired and old. Yes, some games are like that but IMHO its less and less becoming P2W and more & more becoming P2 look cool, get to the end quicker, ect.
In summation, as long as a "pay" option only allows things that can be gotten without cash, does not bring huge advantages, and does not upset the balance of the game.. it is NOT P2W.
my2cents
It's not really about the money. What's 50$ ? Or 15/month? Its nothing.
Folks want value for their money and in services (and that's what games have become) "value" translates into "respect". F2P (or to be precise P2W) is going totally against this psychology. "You're free to come into my restaurant and watch other people eat. You might eat as well but we'll shit into your plate ocassionally, unless you pay." is not the right psychological model to set up your service-based business. Jeez.. In my games I want to feel homey, I don't want to be in a "pay up or shut up" situation at the place i'm relaxin. It's just wrong.
Free to play in any sort of FPS style game seems to always mean P2W. Which is unfortunate.
World of Tanks is like that. In order to get anywhere near the end, you really need to spend money. If that amount of money were somewhere near the usual $15 a month, I would be good with that. But folks drop a LOT more than that, and in order to really participate at the high end, it becomes the same issue.
I would much rather have a pay to play situation...oh well. I also dont mind Free to play with a subsctiption option like LotRO, that way both styles are catered to.
Actually, as far as WoT is concerned...you don't have to spend that much. To turn your account into premium for 1 month of game time is the standard fare of 14.99. This gives you enough gold to purchase 30 days of premium, and STILL have 500 gold left over for things such as gold ammo, purchasing garage slots, transfering xp from elited tanks or just saving over a few months to get something bigger. None of which is needed to play succesfully. Other then that, as premium, I make MORE then enough money and xp playing. You could do without it, and yes..it would be harder. But not in game. The tanks aren't changed any by going premium. You simply get more money and more xp. So if you were playing NON premium...the grind for xp would take longer...and you would have to play more of your tier 4-6 tanks to fund your 9s and 10s, as you make more money on the lower tiers. But it IS doable for 100% free. And you don't need to spend more then 15 a month to get anywhere if you wanted.
Sorry but I really had a good laugh at your attempt to portray WoT as inexpensive when it is the exact opposite. If you want to play the end game of WoT cash is needed and lots of it.
As to planetside, we will just have to wait and see how they structure the cash shop, but in pvp games like this it is almost impossible not to include pay to win features in the cash shop.
I can name several examples of clan mates that have spent zero cash in the game and can field fully loaded Teir 10 tanks into clan fights WITH gold ammo and WITH gold consumables.
To be fair, I also know of clannies that have dumped hundreds into the game.... but that is their choice, isn't it? Their end result is in no way overpowered or any any way different than the "freebie" clanners mentioned above.
No need to be so negative, hackers and cheaters wont be a problem because SOEs security department will have it all under control......
Lawl
Edit; I also like to state. I dont mind f2p game. It just in an mmo FPS. there more incentive for hackers than say TF2.
-- "Any free people have the right to choose how it wants to be govern thats the essence of democracy. It's sad when America has chosen for the stability and consistency of a dictatorship and doing it democratically" -utnow
B2P is F2P and vis versa, i hate how ppl hate on the ftp. You get to try a game before you put any money down. No games are free. This is the real world ppl, if you like it, buy it
So you make a trial and then B2P option. Presto. Like in the old days. Fair and square.
But oh no... Old Smedley likes F2P... He likes the soft touch. He wants to draw you in slowly...
I shuddered at the second line; it makes Smedley sound like a child molester sitting in his car offering neighborhood kids chocolate.
OIt's not really about the money. What's 50$ ? Or 15/month? Its nothing.
Folks want value for their money and in services (and that's what games have become) "value" translates into "respect". F2P (or to be precise P2W) is going totally against this psychology. "You're free to come into my restaurant and watch other people eat. You might eat as well but we'll shit into your plate ocassionally, unless you pay." is not the right psychological model to set up your servie-based business. Jeez.. In my games I want to feel homey, I don't want to be in a "pay up or shut up" situation at the place i'm relaxin. It's just wrong.
You response confuses me, but I must be fair & admit that maybe you feel that way in F2P games. My experience, and the experience of my clan mates has generally been one of acceptance. WoT is fun to play free and fun to play paid. You can pay as much or as little as you like. Our clan allows for way to make gold(cash currency) by never spending cash on the game.
The "freebie" clanners generally dont feel "defacated" upon.. at least from my experience.
.. Im really at a loss on how to respond except to say... sounds like you've had some bad experiences.. . .sux sorry ..but most all of my mates don't report the same.
..maybe consider researching and joining a good clan?
They're hinting they're using the LoL model...hmm.
The vast majority of LoL's cash content is either characters (game impacting but rarely a big deal unless a new character is OP). or cosmetic (outfits). You can buy runes and such, but those are available (as is everything else pretty much) for in-game currency (just you have to work a lot harder).
That's not discouraging.
On the other hand, SoE. Smedley. Please please please don't ruin this guys....
The thought of a massive FPS world with sandbox elements was sort of intriguing. But alas Smedley strikes again. FPS games require a fair playing field to be enjoyable. It might start out with cosmetic cash shop items but we all know it will turn in to PTW as all FTP games do eventially. Fator in SOE and Smedley and its a recipe for failure.
I see people saying things like oh its not expensive to pay for things while others say it is. Either way its money that needs to be spent and for those of use who are in rather poor families money is not something we can simply dish out. If your rich hell great for you but we would like to play to end game without having to dish out cash for great items. I dont mind having to work the extra hours to earn the gear you can pay for because mommy and daddy can afford it. Anyways just saying some of us need to have the ability to earn those same items through work cause if its only available in the cash shop then gaming companies are just stealing.
+1 to insight
+1 for truthiness
there is a fundamental disjunct between various classes of people in this country right now. it'd be nice if game companies would recognize this and that the economy is still in full retreat.
i can only hope those of us w/ StationPasses will have a reason to play this game. otherwise its just going to be another empty slot in their StationPass offerings.
"There are at least two kinds of games. One could be called finite, the other infinite. A finite game is played for the purpose of winning, an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play." Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
If they are queueing anything from the LOL cash model, it will not be P2W. LOL gives away vanity items and IP boosts with real cash, everything else is obtainable with ingame cash it just takes time to get it.
I see people saying things like oh its not expensive to pay for things while others say it is. Either way its money that needs to be spent and for those of use who are in rather poor families money is not something we can simply dish out. If your rich hell great for you but we would like to play to end game without having to dish out cash for great items. I dont mind having to work the extra hours to earn the gear you can pay for because mommy and daddy can afford it. Anyways just saying some of us need to have the ability to earn those same items through work cause if its only available in the cash shop then gaming companies are just stealing.
+1 to insight
+1 for truthiness
there is a fundamental disjunct between various classes of people in this country right now. it'd be nice if game companies would recognize this and that the economy is still in full retreat.
i can only hope those of us w/ StationPasses will have a reason to play this game. otherwise its just going to be another empty slot in their StationPass offerings.
-1 for politicizing the conversation
-1 for hyperbole (the economy is not in "full retreat" everywhere on the planet, or even everywhere in the US)
There will always be rich people who do not understand the poor, ect ect race/class warfare insert troll bait here.
I agree with the fundamental train of thought of these posters, however. Let people spend money if they want so they have to spend less time getting to the same point that people with more time than money can get to in the same general fashion.
Do not make having way too much time on your hands a l33t skill.
Do not make having access to way too much money a l33t skill.
If SoE are talking League of Legends model then we are meaning
1. Free dowload client, and cash payment version/box copy that has goodies included.
2. Cash Shop.
So yeah we are talking a fat wallet being required to get to the top of the game in addition to gaming skill. F2P in some cash shop models means paying more than a sub in others.
League of Legends is the only F2P game I've played so far that has done that payment model very, very well. I've never spent a dime and can be competitive just fine.
This news just makes Prime http://www.primeonline.com/ more appealing. Third-person, 3-faction RvR in a sandboxy virtual world without a P2W cash-shop.
Well that is quite a let down. I had suspected as much, given that everybody and their mother are trying to "cash" in on the free2play model. In the past couple years I have lost what little faith I had in the game industry and the MMORPG genre specifically. I don't like free 2 play, play 2 win, a la carte type games. I can only hope that this garbage is a fad, maybe just a bad dream? Why can't I buy a game, then play it, maybe with a subscription for server/dev/etc/costs, and enjoy the full game without getting some lame cash shop shoved in my face anymore? GW2 can't come out soon enough. Hell I don't even care if the game is any good, I am buying to support that payment model. I really hope it succeeds, just to show that if you make a good game, people will buy it. I have never, nor will I spend money in a so called free2play game.
Seems like nowadays that instead of making a game that is worth buying and putting time into, companies can just make piss poor games and let people download them for free, and then prey on people's competitive natures, liberating them of there hard earned money (sometimes quite a lot from what I hear) if they want to progress. Disgraceful business practices if you ask me I feel like I am dealing with a phone or cable company when I look at these some game companies.
Comments
so a double post and a off-topic comment that comes from the translation/link above:
2000 players?...... really? 2000 live players? cmon Smed quit smokin the caine.
Too bad....free-to-play...I stay away.
Let's party like it is 1863!
at this point FTP is probably the best thing SOE can do right now. they have burnt so many bridges with the players that most people wont even try a game of theirs unless its a free trial or somthing first.
who in their right minds wants to buy a pay a monthly sub for a SOE game these days? not many people.
Well there went my hopes for this game.
FPS and F2P doesn't mix, because as some others have noted it becomes P2W. And we are talking about SOE here: they will bungle it horribly and tell the players to go screw themselves the second they get any negative feedback.
I see people saying things like oh its not expensive to pay for things while others say it is. Either way its money that needs to be spent and for those of use who are in rather poor families money is not something we can simply dish out. If your rich hell great for you but we would like to play to end game without having to dish out cash for great items. I dont mind having to work the extra hours to earn the gear you can pay for because mommy and daddy can afford it. Anyways just saying some of us need to have the ability to earn those same items through work cause if its only available in the cash shop then gaming companies are just stealing.
Smedley likes F2P. Smedley started liking F2P while he was into PvE where it (might, could, may) make sense. Smedley is not really knowing of what he's talking about. Smedley is a nice guy and has a nice smile but Smedley really doesn't know where it's at. Maybe somebody put stop to Smedley. Someone who has money invested. Is SOE really that altruistic? What is the leverage this Smedley guy has over Sony entertainment investors? I mean, this guy is costing investors MILLIONS. What's his angle? Does he have kinky negatives in a Swiss vault or something?
B2P is F2P and vis versa, i hate how ppl hate on the ftp. You get to try a game before you put any money down. No games are free. This is the real world ppl, if you like it, buy it
So you make a trial and then B2P option. Presto. Like in the old days. Fair and square.
But oh no... Old Smedley likes F2P... He likes the soft touch. He wants to draw you in slowly...
/out of dripping sarcasm mode: Yeah, I'd give ol' Smed 50$ to play "his"* game fairly. But I'm not gunna give him one bloody cent for the beggary pathetic creepy travesty that is f2p.
Oh and btw I play TF2. It's fantastic. Best online FPS Ive played in years. Shame about the creepy pathetic money shop tho. I'd give'em the money if they asked fairly. I hate being conned into anything and f2p model is just a con. It's disgraceful.
*"his" - jeezus THE most reactionary game producer alive. The conformist. The clueless "I just wanna fit in, what's sellin this season" guy" is now into 3-faction Pvp. Makes me puke. Why doesn't he finally f***k off, grow balls and starts doing whatever it's his real calling because game design surely isn't. (Write a novel? Have a life-changing trip to Cambodia?) I'll bet a million bucks he actually hates games and gamers. Just move on buddy, just move on.
[Mod Edit]
1- there are several players I know in teir X tanks on WoT that have never spent a dime on the game and yet still use gold ammo in clan wars & regularly win matches.
2- there are ways to get gold (cash currency) in game that dont have anything to do with spending real life cash
3- there is virtually nothing you can get with $$$ that can't be gotten without using $$$ (no cash-only items)
4-gold items offer minor advantages at best, but do not bork the competition.
That pretty much busts the comment that WoT is P2W. Yes, there are players hoarding or buying gold and running gold ammo/consumables/ect in every fight that can be a bit annoying. However, those people Can and Do get killed.
What I have heard from P2 is that cash items will be, like, individualized looks for your clan, ect.
The F2P = P2W rant is getting a little tired and old. Yes, some games are like that but IMHO its less and less becoming P2W and more & more becoming P2 look cool, get to the end quicker, ect.
In summation, as long as a "pay" option only allows things that can be gotten without cash, does not bring huge advantages, and does not upset the balance of the game.. it is NOT P2W.
my2cents
It's not really about the money. What's 50$ ? Or 15/month? Its nothing.
Folks want value for their money and in services (and that's what games have become) "value" translates into "respect". F2P (or to be precise P2W) is going totally against this psychology. "You're free to come into my restaurant and watch other people eat. You might eat as well but we'll shit into your plate ocassionally, unless you pay." is not the right psychological model to set up your service-based business. Jeez.. In my games I want to feel homey, I don't want to be in a "pay up or shut up" situation at the place i'm relaxin. It's just wrong.
I can name several examples of clan mates that have spent zero cash in the game and can field fully loaded Teir 10 tanks into clan fights WITH gold ammo and WITH gold consumables.
To be fair, I also know of clannies that have dumped hundreds into the game.... but that is their choice, isn't it? Their end result is in no way overpowered or any any way different than the "freebie" clanners mentioned above.
..next..
Lawl
Edit; I also like to state. I dont mind f2p game. It just in an mmo FPS. there more incentive for hackers than say TF2.
--
"Any free people have the right to choose how it wants to be govern thats the essence of democracy. It's sad when America has chosen for the stability and consistency of a dictatorship and doing it democratically" -utnow
I shuddered at the second line; it makes Smedley sound like a child molester sitting in his car offering neighborhood kids chocolate.
You response confuses me, but I must be fair & admit that maybe you feel that way in F2P games. My experience, and the experience of my clan mates has generally been one of acceptance. WoT is fun to play free and fun to play paid. You can pay as much or as little as you like. Our clan allows for way to make gold(cash currency) by never spending cash on the game.
The "freebie" clanners generally dont feel "defacated" upon.. at least from my experience.
.. Im really at a loss on how to respond except to say... sounds like you've had some bad experiences.. . .sux sorry ..but most all of my mates don't report the same.
..maybe consider researching and joining a good clan?
They're hinting they're using the LoL model...hmm.
The vast majority of LoL's cash content is either characters (game impacting but rarely a big deal unless a new character is OP). or cosmetic (outfits). You can buy runes and such, but those are available (as is everything else pretty much) for in-game currency (just you have to work a lot harder).
That's not discouraging.
On the other hand, SoE. Smedley. Please please please don't ruin this guys....
LoL has the fairest cash shop of any online game currently in existence. If they are stating that they like LoL, this is a very, very good sign.
The thought of a massive FPS world with sandbox elements was sort of intriguing. But alas Smedley strikes again. FPS games require a fair playing field to be enjoyable. It might start out with cosmetic cash shop items but we all know it will turn in to PTW as all FTP games do eventially. Fator in SOE and Smedley and its a recipe for failure.
+1 to insight
+1 for truthiness
there is a fundamental disjunct between various classes of people in this country right now. it'd be nice if game companies would recognize this and that the economy is still in full retreat.
i can only hope those of us w/ StationPasses will have a reason to play this game. otherwise its just going to be another empty slot in their StationPass offerings.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
If they are queueing anything from the LOL cash model, it will not be P2W. LOL gives away vanity items and IP boosts with real cash, everything else is obtainable with ingame cash it just takes time to get it.
-1 for politicizing the conversation
-1 for hyperbole (the economy is not in "full retreat" everywhere on the planet, or even everywhere in the US)
There will always be rich people who do not understand the poor, ect ect race/class warfare insert troll bait here.
I agree with the fundamental train of thought of these posters, however. Let people spend money if they want so they have to spend less time getting to the same point that people with more time than money can get to in the same general fashion.
Do not make having way too much time on your hands a l33t skill.
Do not make having access to way too much money a l33t skill.
Balance.
This is SoE and Smedley, and considering the past, I am highly skeptical about it.
Especially in how they've handled cash shops in P2P games, imagine how their cash shops in F2P games could potentially be like.
League of Legends is the only F2P game I've played so far that has done that payment model very, very well. I've never spent a dime and can be competitive just fine.
This news just makes Prime http://www.primeonline.com/ more appealing. Third-person, 3-faction RvR in a sandboxy virtual world without a P2W cash-shop.
Well that is quite a let down. I had suspected as much, given that everybody and their mother are trying to "cash" in on the free2play model. In the past couple years I have lost what little faith I had in the game industry and the MMORPG genre specifically. I don't like free 2 play, play 2 win, a la carte type games. I can only hope that this garbage is a fad, maybe just a bad dream? Why can't I buy a game, then play it, maybe with a subscription for server/dev/etc/costs, and enjoy the full game without getting some lame cash shop shoved in my face anymore? GW2 can't come out soon enough. Hell I don't even care if the game is any good, I am buying to support that payment model. I really hope it succeeds, just to show that if you make a good game, people will buy it. I have never, nor will I spend money in a so called free2play game.
Seems like nowadays that instead of making a game that is worth buying and putting time into, companies can just make piss poor games and let people download them for free, and then prey on people's competitive natures, liberating them of there hard earned money (sometimes quite a lot from what I hear) if they want to progress. Disgraceful business practices if you ask me
I feel like I am dealing with a phone or cable company when I look at these some game companies.