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Theres P2W, P2P, PPP, B2P and P2G, but wheres the P4F?

maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 10,270

What a title huh?   Payment models not withstanding - stay with me here

We have:

Pay 2 Win games (free to play with microtransacitons)

Pay to Play games  (subscription games)

Pay,Pay,Pay games (buy the box, pay the sub, buy the Microtransaction items)

Buy to Play (buy the box, usually buy expansions and content packs to stay current)

Pay to Grind (subscriptions that  have such high grind it takes months and months to get anywhere)

 

 

.....

 

But whats the deal with  Playing for Fun?  Is that just not an option anymore?  Its almost as if payment models direct the gameplay better than the games features do nowadays.   Because a game has Microtransaction - you have to pony up the cash or be a second class citizen.   Sometimes they put enormous timesinks into a game because they want people to keep subscribing,  and it makes something that would normally be enjoyable (like raiding) mundane and repetitive.

 

I'm not saying that companies shouldn't make money or use these payment models,  but when payment models start getting in the way of making a fun game,  its really a killer for me.  I mean afterall,  how many people have said  "I won't play X game because the Y payment model really turns me off."  

 

What payment model do you think would be best?  Which model would best benefit the players to ensure a fun game, and the developers so they continue to generate revenue?



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Comments

  • SagasaintSagasaint Member UncommonPosts: 466

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    What payment model do you think would be best?  Which model would best benefit the players to ensure a fun game, and the developers so they continue to generate revenue?

    the answer is always the same: P2P without cash shops

  • marganculosmarganculos Member UncommonPosts: 334


    Originally posted by Sagasaint

    Originally posted by maskedweasel
    What payment model do you think would be best?  Which model would best benefit the players to ensure a fun game, and the developers so they continue to generate revenue?
    the answer is always the same: P2P without cash shops


    +1

    so true...... everything other sux, well i like B2P too... (thinking about GW:D )

  • MetentsoMetentso Member UncommonPosts: 1,437

    B2P without shop, if that is possible.

    If not, P2P without shop.

  • MarLMarL Member UncommonPosts: 606

    I think games should make multiple games, one cash shop, one sub no cash shop and just let people pick what they want?

    Personally i want a free to play game supported by player auctions where they take 20% (like d3 but you dont have to buy it)

    Own, Mine, Defend, Attack, 24/7

  • SulaaSulaa Member UncommonPosts: 1,329

    Originally posted by Sagasaint

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    What payment model do you think would be best?  Which model would best benefit the players to ensure a fun game, and the developers so they continue to generate revenue?

    the answer is always the same: P2P without cash shops

    this

     

    +1

  • Cpt_PicardCpt_Picard Member Posts: 300

    Originally posted by Sagasaint

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    What payment model do you think would be best?  Which model would best benefit the players to ensure a fun game, and the developers so they continue to generate revenue?

    the answer is always the same: P2P without cash shops

    Make it so...

  • RobokappRobokapp Member RarePosts: 6,122

    P B F...I dont care as long as there's no cash shop.

    image

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Member Posts: 5,359

    Any game which is designed around a business model rather than designed to just be a good product that people want to play is a bad thing.

    In my opinion, the game is the product.  I want to purchase or subscribe to (flat fee) a solid product and then be done with it.  The only incentive the developer should have it to make a product that people want to buy.

    If the developer decides to make other products and then sell them over the internet (expansions, microtransactions for NEW content) then that is fine as well.

    But when the developer decides that they are going to make a game specifically designed to milk money out of you then I'm out.  The design of a game as a fun product should never suffer because developers are trying to milk their players for more money AFTER they get the game.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • KenFisherKenFisher Member UncommonPosts: 5,035

    Pay 4 Fun?  Well I can think of something, but the picture would be a TOS violation.  *smirk*

     

    Oh wait... OP said play 4 fun.  That's completely different.


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  When I don't understand, I ask.  Such is not intended as criticism.
  • FoomerangFoomerang Member UncommonPosts: 5,619

    Like others have said, P2P with no cash shop is my preferred payment model. Id love to see B2P with no cash shop but I think thats a ways off yet.

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Member Posts: 5,359

    Originally posted by Foomerang

    Like others have said, P2P with no cash shop is my preferred payment model. Id love to see B2P with no cash shop but I think thats a ways off yet.

    I think cash shops in one form or another are basically a fact of life in MMORPGs at this point that aren't going away.  Even P2P games have them.

    Where I draw the line with them is when they start affecting the game design.  Selling services like character transfers, renames, race swaps, and what not are a total rip off but at least they don't make the game worse.  Selling new content is fine, it's basically just really small expansions.

    But selling in game items is a no no.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • FoomerangFoomerang Member UncommonPosts: 5,619


    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Originally posted by Foomerang
    Like others have said, P2P with no cash shop is my preferred payment model. Id love to see B2P with no cash shop but I think thats a ways off yet.
    I think cash shops in one form or another are basically a fact of life in MMORPGs at this point that aren't going away.  Even P2P games have them.
    Where I draw the line with them is when they start affecting the game design.  Selling services like character transfers, renames, race swaps, and what not are a total rip off but at least they don't make the game worse.  Selling new content is fine, it's basically just really small expansions.
    But selling in game items is a no no.


    Id like to see a hybrid model where maybe crafting classes can make cash shop fluff and sell it for an ISK type currency. At least then it would be player driven.
  • KelthiusKelthius Member UncommonPosts: 298

    Originally posted by marganculos

     




    Originally posted by Sagasaint





    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    What payment model do you think would be best?  Which model would best benefit the players to ensure a fun game, and the developers so they continue to generate revenue?






    the answer is always the same: P2P without cash shops





    +1

     

    so true...... everything other sux, well i like B2P too... (thinking about GW:D )

    Yeah, B2P is fine with a vanity cash shop.

    image
  • blackcat35blackcat35 Member Posts: 479

    I like p2p or b2p, like most of the people on here.  I am not into the microtransactions.  I'm guessing that I'm  the small minority though, because it seems that its profitable to run cash shops and its pervasive in MMORPGS now.  Too many people don't mind spending a few bucks here and there in cash shops.

    ==========================
    The game is dead not, this game is good we make it and Romania Tv give it 5 goat heads, this is good rating for game.

  • QuirhidQuirhid Member UncommonPosts: 6,230

    P2P brings in mandatory timesinks and more grind, so I prefer B2P. I'm neutral about itemshops as long as they don't offer any P2W items, or items that you feel like you need to have to make your game bearable (i.e. XP boosts).

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • pierthpierth Member UncommonPosts: 1,494

    Originally posted by Quirhid

    P2P brings in mandatory timesinks and more grind, so I prefer B2P. I'm neutral about itemshops as long as they don't offer any P2W items, or items that you feel like you need to have to make your game bearable (i.e. XP boosts).

    +1: give me a pricing system where I can just pay for parts of the game once I'm to that point rather than paying for a month's worth of time when I may only play for 20-30 hours. I'd even be willing to pay a bit more in the cash shop than I would for a current monthly sub if it means that there isn't an inherent grind in every aspect of gameplay that's only there to keep you subscribing longer. Some grinds make sense, most don't- they just make money.

  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,324

    I dont care about B2P, because those are games like Diablo or Guild Wars - nothing I would play for a longer time. I barely made it through Diablo 2 once and GW, it went insanely boring after a mere 3 days.

    I dont care about F2P, because I have tested that one - in short, thats the worst community ever. No thank you. Also, game quality of pure F2P games is just not acceptable.

    So yeah, another +1 for P2P.

    Please set a sig so I can read your posting even if somebody "agreed" etc with it. Thanks.
  • MynscMynsc Member Posts: 49

    I'm perfectly fine with ingame cash shops, as long as they contain only vanity items. I see it as a win-win for everyone: developers get some cash, players that are not interested in vanity stuff are not affected in any way and those that really want to look special have the option to do so, by buying clothes and stuff from the cash shop.

    P2P with this type of shop is probably the ideal solution for both categories: players and developers.

    Unfortunately, with the huge influx of F2Ps, P2P games start with a huge disadvantage: they attract clients much harder. And this is why we are seeing less and less games with this subscription model and more "free" games. This is not a problem in itself, except that F2Ps rarely make enough money to sustain themselves only from selling vanity items. So they have to add something extra, which usually means all kinds of buffs and services that tilt the game towards the P2W model.

    Guild Wars I believe has found the perfect balance, with it's B2P option and couple with cosmetic cash upgrades.

    http://titanfocus.info - news, predictions and place for discussions about Blizzard's upcoming next-gen MMO.

  • xKingdomxxKingdomx Member UncommonPosts: 1,541

    When I BUY a game, I would like to be able to play it whenever I want.

    Unless a monthly subscription means monthly major updates, I don't see why I have to pay for the subscription. Customer Service? Server cost? Don't kid yourself.

     

    As for your weird OP argument, you are comparing a pricing structure to a playing experience, play for fun, trying to equate fun with money is like asking an elephant to juggle 10 human at once.

    How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
    As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.

  • alfokentyalfokenty Member Posts: 24

     

    Playing for Fun: P4F. A very interesting concept. How many MMO players are today playing for fun? For most players MMOs are more a job then fun. But why do they work so hard in MMOs? The answer is very simple: to be the Best or the First. Today MMOs are competitions and racing games. Players put a lot of time and money into the MMOs, not because they want to have fun, but because they want to be the Best.

     

    You can ask yourself why are you playing a MMO? Because you are enjoying every minute that you play the game or because you want to reach the end game, to get the best gear, to get the achievements, to get some other points .....

  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,324

    Err, obviously only some players are trying to be "best" or "first".

    Many people, like me, simply dont have the necessary time for that.

    Please set a sig so I can read your posting even if somebody "agreed" etc with it. Thanks.
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    But whats the deal with  Playing for Fun?  Is that just not an option anymore? 

    You decide that, not the business model. If the payment model is getting in the way of your fun and you are still playing/paying then the issue is entirely on your end. This is entertainment, not electric or hot water, MW.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • BritasBritas Member Posts: 46

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    Its almost as if payment models direct the gameplay better than the games features do nowadays.  

     

    The payment model is basic to a game's core design philosophy. I am suprised more people don't understand this.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Member Posts: 6,403

    Originally posted by Sagasaint

    the answer is always the same: P2P without cash shops

     

    Ah, the mythical "game with no revenue at all" model.  It's my favorite too, when you can get something for nothing is always good.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • KaeriganKaerigan Member Posts: 689

    Originally posted by Icewhite

    Originally posted by Sagasaint

    the answer is always the same: P2P without cash shops

     

    Ah, the mythical "game with no revenue at all" model.  It's my favorite too, when you can get something for nothing is always good.

    Uh, wut, subscription fees aren't revenue?

    <childish, provocative and highly speculative banner about your favorite game goes here>

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