These days I'm seeing alot of hype for Star Wars: The Old Republic. Both long time Star Wars IP fans and WoW haters alike seem excited, but is it for the right reasons?
I think a good amount of people remember Warhammer Online. There was BIG hype about it- The WoW slayer, the new DAOC, Warhammer Fantasy IP, etc etc...
Problem is with people, not games. Haters are that also usually in real life, is not only wow target. They have kind of disorder.
I'm wow lover, so far best game ever, Rift for now close second, ... but despite I'm always looking for new games I never ever think about them as "killing something" .... I see them just as ANOTHER potential source of fun. I enjoed a lot Aoc, War, CO, ... But sure, is normal we always compare ... but I was never filled with hathred toward no game.
Is SWTOR, the next Warhammer? Nope, SWTOR doesn't have elves, dwarves and fairys
Fantasy playerbase will play fantasy mmo's and SciFi playerbase will play scifi mmo's.
You should be stating will Guild Wars 2 be the next Warhammer, however the way Guild Wars 2 is looking I doubt that either, but you are definetly entitled to your opinion.
I think the next 3 mmo's <on my list> in my opinion will flourish (SWToR, Guildwars 2 and The Secret World).
But if you feel SWTOR will be the next Warhammer, then don't buy it and keep playing what your playing.
These days I'm seeing alot of hype for Star Wars: The Old Republic. Both long time Star Wars IP fans and WoW haters alike seem excited, but is it for the right reasons?
I think a good amount of people remember Warhammer Online. There was BIG hype about it- The WoW slayer, the new DAOC, Warhammer Fantasy IP, etc etc...
And what happened?
Nobody's really sure how many players the game has nowadays. Maybe 100k at MOST? And that is a liberal estimate.
And then came Rift. Yet again, everyone cheered (and cheer) WoW Slayer, new big MMO, etc etc. And what happned? Yet again, everyone was disappointed. Now, not that Rift is dying like WAR is- it still has a decent playerbase, but I think they're heavily customizable class system will be their downfall eventually.
But this isn't a Rift bashing thread. This is about people yet again getting over-excited about a game, and then being SO SURPRISED when it turns out the game is either unfinished, under-developed, or just another clone!
Basically, I just wanna suggest that everyone do some legitimate research on a game before you scream "OMG SWEET EPIC GAME WOW SLAYER!"
This especially goes for SWTOR- I think that SWTOR will likely be a major fail, as many people are a bit too excited about the IP, perhaps moreso than the actual gameplay (like what happened in WAR).
With close to 400k pre-orders in the US alone, I don't think this game is going to go the way of WAR. Mythic did their pvp system very well for that game, it just the rest that sucked donkey globeular objects of reproduction. ToR will be fine, it may climb high if EA can keep itself off BW's back.
I don't like what I see. Too many silly special effects when you attack or take buffs. And the animation and graphics are meh. Combat look very boring.
I don't like what I see. Too many silly special effects when you attack or take buffs. And the animation and graphics are meh. Combat look very boring.
Do you even know why AOC lost so many subs? it was full of bugs and launched with serious lack of content. Not to mention the over promised and under delieverd content by Funcom.
Anyone who has been following SWTOR and Bioware knows that what bioware has talked about so far is already in game. Are you seriously going to tell me that Bioware is lying like Funcom and we won't get all the content and features promised?
I don't like what I see. Too many silly special effects when you attack or take buffs. And the animation and graphics are meh. Combat look very boring.
Do you even know why AOC lost so many subs? it was full of bugs and launched with serious lack of content. Not to mention the over promised and under delieverd content by Funcom.
Anyone who has been following SWTOR and Bioware knows that what bioware has talked about so far is already in game. Are you seriously going to tell me that Bioware is lying like Funcom and we won't get all the content and features promised?
AOC: over promised underdelivered - DX 10 debacle, bar fight debacle, huge content no where to be scene for characters ( 2-3 months of the potato bag era) - chronic oversweeping amounts of nerfing and buffing - multiple subjective unwarrented revamps - changing of directers - Bad implenmentation of Sieges, Bugs Bugs crashes and More Bugs - punk ass bean counters that pushed developers to rush the game - Age of Bori (thanks to pve director), Rise of the GrindSlayer (thanks to pve director) - High amount of Instancing - simutanious destruction of both Rp and pvp communities due to bugs, back pedalling and late response time.
SWTOR so far has taken out killing off companions, but hey at least they were upfront and said that they taken it out.
Both WAR and AOC lost a large number of people because they lost their customers confidence.
WAR and AOC had problem and/or undelivered features. And the way they handled things caused their customers to lose any confidence that these would be fixed or delivered or decent if they were delivered.
But at the same time there are other factors outside of this that are also affecting games. I think people are also genuinely tired of the EQ-lineage/ WoW/ raid to PvP well BS that is constantly being recylced.
The lose of confidence made WAR go down much faster than it would have but I think it was gonna go down a similar amount anyway. The only thing that would have kept WAR alive long-term IMO, was a PvP campaign that made sense and was well crafted. But they didn't design one and therefore didn't deliver.
BW isn't gonna deliver any better of a PvP experience than WAR and its PvE may satisfy people for a while and draw away many WoW players. But I think its gonna bleed people. I thinkn even WoW is starting to bleed people as the just plain shallowness and empty "progression" becomes more and more obvious and impossible to dress up in new clothes.
Games bleed people for two main reasons:
1) lack of confidence
2) boredom
Both AoC and WAR had both happen simultaneously. This has a devastating effect when both happen at once. But I think #2 is getting worse and worse for any of the games that are trying to be a DIKU-style WoW/EQ clone.
No chance in hell, If anything Swtor is the next WoW, Bioware=win, Star Wars=win no matter how you look at it there is no chance for this game to fail.
If this game fails then all MMO will fail from here on out, the amount of money they put into this game for it to fail will show the MMO world that no matter what you do MMO's have peaked with WoW and will die out like the VCR, MMO's will be proven to be a short lived fad.
For the Future of ALL MMO's you better hope this donsn't fail because if it does no other MMO company will ever invest alot of money into making one, we will be forever stuck with half ass unfinshed games due to fear of failure.
Lol at this
Throwing massive amounts of cash at a game don't make it great. Implementation and innovation tend to breed success. If TOR fails (doubtful) mmos might just completely change from out of date designs and take chances with revolutionary implenentation. I think TOR will be a huge success (not wow status ofc) but it's not bringing too much change. In-depth character story and roleplaying isn't for everyone. It is however bringing great implementation of standard mmo design.
If it fails investors will think twice about funding 3rd rate mmos companies who care little for the games they make and let them die to bugs and bad implementation. Not referring to beware here, I'm just saying companies will be careful.
You are right in a way, but throwing a massive amount of cash does mean they want it to be successful and they are less likly to ship a incomplete game full of bugs, now on the innovation thing, I myself like innovation but most people now days like familiarties ,mostly the hard core gamers want innovation, casual players want familiarties with new settings, story and a good game atmosphere, casuals don't want nore have the time to relearn how to ride a bike.
My guess is the causal players make up more them 90% of the MMO industry. (before WoW MMO's only had 500k subs MAX and I think that was EQ 1, of them 500K subs I would say 95%+ where hard core MMO players, facter that in todays market, 10-12 million WoW subs alone, there might be about 1-2 million hardcore MMO players across all MMO's so that leaves 10's of Millions of casual players in the MMO industry world wide.
Below are the main reasons WoW became the king of MMO's
1. Money, time & support invested (takes money to make money)
2. Low system requirements (WoW runs on a P3 800mhz) but can also be scaled to run on multicore, (WoW can be ran on PC & MAC computers 10+ years old)
3. WoW steals ideas from other MMO's (yes it sucks but they do it and it keeps players hooked)
4. You MUST, I mean MUST cater to both PvP & PvE if not good luck gaining more then 400k subs (see Lotro & WAR)
5. LORE, I said it LORE, even thought I don't role play I do care alot about story, to me story is what pulls me into the world and even my characters.
I have seen a number of posts on people who have had hands on with tor.
most of them say they hate having to play there normal mmos now. That after play tor they cant wait for it to come out that the story and choice elements cant be over stated how much of a diffrence it makes.
they talk about how much fun they have playing it and how they dont realize how much time they have played it.
So im sorry i will believe people who have had a hands on with game and not the gw 2 haters on this forum who bash tor every single time it comes up with lies and innendo and no facts to back themselvs up.
I have seen a number of posts on people who have had hands on with tor.
most of them say they hate having to play there normal mmos now. That after play tor they cant wait for it to come out that the story and choice elements cant be over stated how much of a diffrence it makes.
they talk about how much fun they have playing it and how they dont realize how much time they have played it.
So im sorry i will believe people who have had a hands on with game and not the gw 2 haters on this forum who bash tor every single time it comes up with lies and innendo and no facts to back themselvs up.
I agree wholeheartedly. Every TOR thread has GW2 fans bashing it. I don't care how it looks, play the damn game then make your decisions.
Why do GW2 fanbois find it necessary to bash SWTOR, and vice versa?
NEWSFLASH: They aren't ANYWHERE near the same game.
One is PvE oriented, the other is PvP.
One is F2P, one is P2P.
If you like one, go play that.
Someday, the GW2/WoW Arena fanbois will realize they are the minority, and that most people don't focus on PvP, and any game who doesn't cater to their minority isn't automatically trash.
Why do GW2 fanbois find it necessary to bash SWTOR, and vice versa?
NEWSFLASH: They aren't ANYWHERE near the same game.
One is PvE oriented, the other is PvP.
One is F2P, one is P2P.
If you like one, go play that.
Someday, the GW2/WoW Arena fanbois will realize they are the minority, and that most people don't focus on PvP, and any game who doesn't cater to their minority isn't automatically trash.
As PvE oriented as TOR is suppose to be, the world PvP sounds freakin delicious.
I first of all discount the crowd that always scream 'WoW killer.' Its an old refrain, and is kind of old. Its the same as those people who predict the end of the world. Eventually someone will guess right, and will be able to tell everyone how he was the one who predicted it. Gratz, you guessed right.
Will SWTOR be another Warhammer? Its a possibility for sure. People get over excited about a game, and 9 times out 10, it won't meat those loft expectations. I'm hoping that the vast majority of people have realistic expectations and will play the game for what it is. I don't think there is anyway to predict which way it will go. Its just not possible to tell before its released. However, it makes people happy to predict it success or failure and some will have guessed right, and will be happy to let us know how right they were. sigh
I first of all discount the crowd that always scream 'WoW killer.' Its an old refrain, and is kind of old. Its the same as those people who predict the end of the world. Eventually someone will guess right, and will be able to tell everyone how he was the one who predicted it. Gratz, you guessed right.
Will SWTOR be another Warhammer? Its a possibility for sure. People get over excited about a game, and 9 times out 10, it won't meat those loft expectations. I'm hoping that the vast majority of people have realistic expectations and will play the game for what it is. I don't think there is anyway to predict which way it will go. Its just not possible to tell before its released. However, it makes people happy to predict it success or failure and some will have guessed right, and will be happy to let us know how right they were. sigh
Sadly, as of late, any game dubbed the "WoW Killer" has been a collosal failure.....with the exception of maybe Rift, but it wasn't anywhere near a "WoW Killer".
You'd think people would stop saying it after all this time, realizing that everytime they do, the game crashes and burns.
There is no wow killer game im sorry wow was a once in a lifetime phenomenon and half the subs are in asia. So in us they have maybe 5 mil
That said tor wont be warhammer cause those of us star wars fans who know what tor is and bioware fans will play it and stay with it.
we wont play it for pvp although world pvp actually intrigues me with there lakes and objectives and huttball im gonna have to play once.
but tor can do well 5-6 mil easy. story in an mmo is innovative and dont go the text in games u have to read as story theres a huge diffrence between the story in wow and the vo story in tor. or mass effect or dragon age.
bringin the mass effect and dragaon age storytelling to an mmo will be cool and i cant wait for it and i will play every class as every class has a unique story even if some quests are the same why they do it is completly diffrent on clas part of the story.
i still see alot of people rolling alts in fact most people on tor forums are plannning there alts out already .
No, TOR won't be the next WAR. What was primarily missing in WAR was a strong PvE aspect. The RvR was and continues to be the game's major redeeming factor, and the one most people play for. From the information we have now (both directly stated by devs and assumptions made from facts such as Mythic helping BioWare with TOR), we can say TOR's PvP will be comparable to WAR - except TOR's PvE will be 1,000x better.
Comments
Problem is with people, not games. Haters are that also usually in real life, is not only wow target. They have kind of disorder.
I'm wow lover, so far best game ever, Rift for now close second, ... but despite I'm always looking for new games I never ever think about them as "killing something" .... I see them just as ANOTHER potential source of fun. I enjoed a lot Aoc, War, CO, ... But sure, is normal we always compare ... but I was never filled with hathred toward no game.
Is SWTOR, the next Warhammer? Nope, SWTOR doesn't have elves, dwarves and fairys
Fantasy playerbase will play fantasy mmo's and SciFi playerbase will play scifi mmo's.
You should be stating will Guild Wars 2 be the next Warhammer, however the way Guild Wars 2 is looking I doubt that either, but you are definetly entitled to your opinion.
I think the next 3 mmo's <on my list> in my opinion will flourish (SWToR, Guildwars 2 and The Secret World).
But if you feel SWTOR will be the next Warhammer, then don't buy it and keep playing what your playing.
With close to 400k pre-orders in the US alone, I don't think this game is going to go the way of WAR. Mythic did their pvp system very well for that game, it just the rest that sucked donkey globeular objects of reproduction. ToR will be fine, it may climb high if EA can keep itself off BW's back.
Don't forget AoC and it's epic death. Like 700k gone after just some weeks.
Here you can see more from SWTOR:
Gamescom Coverage : Old Republic PvP - Trooper gameplay played and commentated by TotalBiscuit
http://www.youtube.com/user/TotalHalibut#p/c/2272A4EE84269E1F/15/k1i_bxfXUSw
Gamescom Coverage : WTF is Star Wars : The Old Republic (Smuggler/Solo Commentary)
http://www.youtube.com/user/TotalHalibut#p/c/2272A4EE84269E1F/38/pxMbI30KKJ0
I don't like what I see. Too many silly special effects when you attack or take buffs. And the animation and graphics are meh. Combat look very boring.
Do you even know why AOC lost so many subs? it was full of bugs and launched with serious lack of content. Not to mention the over promised and under delieverd content by Funcom.
Anyone who has been following SWTOR and Bioware knows that what bioware has talked about so far is already in game. Are you seriously going to tell me that Bioware is lying like Funcom and we won't get all the content and features promised?
AOC: over promised underdelivered - DX 10 debacle, bar fight debacle, huge content no where to be scene for characters ( 2-3 months of the potato bag era) - chronic oversweeping amounts of nerfing and buffing - multiple subjective unwarrented revamps - changing of directers - Bad implenmentation of Sieges, Bugs Bugs crashes and More Bugs - punk ass bean counters that pushed developers to rush the game - Age of Bori (thanks to pve director), Rise of the GrindSlayer (thanks to pve director) - High amount of Instancing - simutanious destruction of both Rp and pvp communities due to bugs, back pedalling and late response time.
SWTOR so far has taken out killing off companions, but hey at least they were upfront and said that they taken it out.
Both WAR and AOC lost a large number of people because they lost their customers confidence.
WAR and AOC had problem and/or undelivered features. And the way they handled things caused their customers to lose any confidence that these would be fixed or delivered or decent if they were delivered.
But at the same time there are other factors outside of this that are also affecting games. I think people are also genuinely tired of the EQ-lineage/ WoW/ raid to PvP well BS that is constantly being recylced.
The lose of confidence made WAR go down much faster than it would have but I think it was gonna go down a similar amount anyway. The only thing that would have kept WAR alive long-term IMO, was a PvP campaign that made sense and was well crafted. But they didn't design one and therefore didn't deliver.
BW isn't gonna deliver any better of a PvP experience than WAR and its PvE may satisfy people for a while and draw away many WoW players. But I think its gonna bleed people. I thinkn even WoW is starting to bleed people as the just plain shallowness and empty "progression" becomes more and more obvious and impossible to dress up in new clothes.
Games bleed people for two main reasons:
1) lack of confidence
2) boredom
Both AoC and WAR had both happen simultaneously. This has a devastating effect when both happen at once. But I think #2 is getting worse and worse for any of the games that are trying to be a DIKU-style WoW/EQ clone.
You are right in a way, but throwing a massive amount of cash does mean they want it to be successful and they are less likly to ship a incomplete game full of bugs, now on the innovation thing, I myself like innovation but most people now days like familiarties ,mostly the hard core gamers want innovation, casual players want familiarties with new settings, story and a good game atmosphere, casuals don't want nore have the time to relearn how to ride a bike.
My guess is the causal players make up more them 90% of the MMO industry. (before WoW MMO's only had 500k subs MAX and I think that was EQ 1, of them 500K subs I would say 95%+ where hard core MMO players, facter that in todays market, 10-12 million WoW subs alone, there might be about 1-2 million hardcore MMO players across all MMO's so that leaves 10's of Millions of casual players in the MMO industry world wide.
Below are the main reasons WoW became the king of MMO's
1. Money, time & support invested (takes money to make money)
2. Low system requirements (WoW runs on a P3 800mhz) but can also be scaled to run on multicore, (WoW can be ran on PC & MAC computers 10+ years old)
3. WoW steals ideas from other MMO's (yes it sucks but they do it and it keeps players hooked)
4. You MUST, I mean MUST cater to both PvP & PvE if not good luck gaining more then 400k subs (see Lotro & WAR)
5. LORE, I said it LORE, even thought I don't role play I do care alot about story, to me story is what pulls me into the world and even my characters.
I have seen a number of posts on people who have had hands on with tor.
most of them say they hate having to play there normal mmos now. That after play tor they cant wait for it to come out that the story and choice elements cant be over stated how much of a diffrence it makes.
they talk about how much fun they have playing it and how they dont realize how much time they have played it.
So im sorry i will believe people who have had a hands on with game and not the gw 2 haters on this forum who bash tor every single time it comes up with lies and innendo and no facts to back themselvs up.
I agree wholeheartedly. Every TOR thread has GW2 fans bashing it. I don't care how it looks, play the damn game then make your decisions.
Why do GW2 fanbois find it necessary to bash SWTOR, and vice versa?
NEWSFLASH: They aren't ANYWHERE near the same game.
One is PvE oriented, the other is PvP.
One is F2P, one is P2P.
If you like one, go play that.
Someday, the GW2/WoW Arena fanbois will realize they are the minority, and that most people don't focus on PvP, and any game who doesn't cater to their minority isn't automatically trash.
As PvE oriented as TOR is suppose to be, the world PvP sounds freakin delicious.
I first of all discount the crowd that always scream 'WoW killer.' Its an old refrain, and is kind of old. Its the same as those people who predict the end of the world. Eventually someone will guess right, and will be able to tell everyone how he was the one who predicted it. Gratz, you guessed right.
Will SWTOR be another Warhammer? Its a possibility for sure. People get over excited about a game, and 9 times out 10, it won't meat those loft expectations. I'm hoping that the vast majority of people have realistic expectations and will play the game for what it is. I don't think there is anyway to predict which way it will go. Its just not possible to tell before its released. However, it makes people happy to predict it success or failure and some will have guessed right, and will be happy to let us know how right they were. sigh
I self identify as a monkey.
which one is PvP oriented?
which one is f2p?
there is certainly some competition for customers between the two but the ball is in Bioware's court as they release first.
Sadly, as of late, any game dubbed the "WoW Killer" has been a collosal failure.....with the exception of maybe Rift, but it wasn't anywhere near a "WoW Killer".
You'd think people would stop saying it after all this time, realizing that everytime they do, the game crashes and burns.
There is no wow killer game im sorry wow was a once in a lifetime phenomenon and half the subs are in asia. So in us they have maybe 5 mil
That said tor wont be warhammer cause those of us star wars fans who know what tor is and bioware fans will play it and stay with it.
we wont play it for pvp although world pvp actually intrigues me with there lakes and objectives and huttball im gonna have to play once.
but tor can do well 5-6 mil easy. story in an mmo is innovative and dont go the text in games u have to read as story theres a huge diffrence between the story in wow and the vo story in tor. or mass effect or dragon age.
bringin the mass effect and dragaon age storytelling to an mmo will be cool and i cant wait for it and i will play every class as every class has a unique story even if some quests are the same why they do it is completly diffrent on clas part of the story.
i still see alot of people rolling alts in fact most people on tor forums are plannning there alts out already .
No, TOR won't be the next WAR. What was primarily missing in WAR was a strong PvE aspect. The RvR was and continues to be the game's major redeeming factor, and the one most people play for. From the information we have now (both directly stated by devs and assumptions made from facts such as Mythic helping BioWare with TOR), we can say TOR's PvP will be comparable to WAR - except TOR's PvE will be 1,000x better.