yup no one ever needs 8gb ram even crysic 2 doesnt need that much. and frankly you can have a evga classified board with 48gb of ram it wont make a lick of differance if your cpu is a 286 with a 4mb video card..
like i pointed out to the OP, if he does go pre-build with windows vista or win-7 installed on it (ten to one he will get a home ED of either most likely win7 now days)
he really should stress to make sure he has 2gbs of ram right off the bat, just for the OS operations at boot.
mind you ideally the avarage PC user (not heavy gamer) can make due with 2-3gb of ram, typically maxing out at 4gb for any computer... a heavy gamer should really invest in the extra cost and get a base avarage of 6gb of system ram. for their gaming needs
all while making sure the CPU is of quality (power/speed) and their video card isnt a POS lolol
evga just put out some new video cards recently so the OP shouldnt have much trouble finding a decent card for a decent price (as im sure everyone can agree any prebuild computer ALWAYS comes with a joke of a video card)
Originally posted by adolo Originally posted by Quizzical "Speed & Number of cores, this is what counts." IPC matters, too, and that varies quite a bit. A hypothetical 3 GHz Sandy Bridge quad core would be meaningfully faster than a hypothetical 4 GHz Athlon II quad core, even if we ignore turbo boost and hyperthreading. Your point is absolutely valid, but in my opinion, a bit more advanced than our OP requires at this time. The OP continues to lean towards an off the shelf pre-build, stating a budget under $1000 and seems to be running away from the direction of a DIY PC build project, which just makes me sad. So, unless we as a community can help him/her to see the error of their ways, that is where they will end up (starts to cry). I think that getting too deep into the technical aspects for a first time builder only intimidates, confuses and scares them away from the hugely satisfying enjoyment of building your own PC. It's sometimes hard for people like us to simplify the process to an acceptable and comprehensible range, vs. making someone's head explode thinking about CAS timings, clock cycles, voltage adjustments, and other overclocking qualifiers for min/maxing your PC stats. Considering what is commonly available in off the shelf pre-build systems, which again seems to be the OP's overall goal... We are looking at Core i7/i5 or the Phenom II family of processors, but if we can convince and guide our fledgling pc enthusiast into the warm and welcoming light of DIY PC builds we can unload our vast talents and knowledge. For reference here is another Toms article (yes, I love their website) outlining the general gaming and computing power of todays common processors. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-llano-processor,2989-5.html
"RAM Memory The more the merrier." That's only true up to the point at which you have enough, and then adding more doesn't get you much benefit. For most people, that point comes before 4 GB, and hardly anyone needs more than 8 GB. You can get 8 GB of system memory for $50, so I'd recommend that for a lot of people. Someone on a very tight budget may need to cut back to only 4 GB. I fully agree that RAM can seem like a golden fleece and people can focus to the point of excess on trying to get the most RAM they can possibly stuff in a system with no real performance gains after a point, but taking snips out of context leaves behind a larger story. My original statement was: "The more the merrier. You can also buy upgrades for this online for cheap. This might be a way to save money on a 'shelf' model that has low RAM and better other stats. Then get a cheap upgrade later, but I wouldnt go less than 1GB to start, preferably you want 2GB or more." Clearly only trying to guide the OP in the inital stages of building, i.e. performing a RAM upgrade, as well as a good starting point of 2GB. Later if they so choose, they can double or triple their RAM, also taking into consideration dual / triple channel configuration of some motherboards. I currently run 12GB in triple channel (4GB x 3) and love never having to worry about memory bottlenecks.
Just some friendly comments on the 'comments on the replies', =) overall you provide very valid and sage advice and I thank you for that. We need more people whom can provide valid and constructive feedback on the internet in general, and not so many trollolol's.
"Speed & Number of cores, this is what counts."
"IPC matters, too, and that varies quite a bit. A hypothetical 3 GHz Sandy Bridge quad core would be meaningfully faster than a hypothetical 4 GHz Athlon II quad core, even if we ignore turbo boost and hyperthreading."
Your point is absolutely valid, but in my opinion, a bit more advanced than our OP requires at this time. The OP continues to lean towards an off the shelf pre-build, with a budget under $1000 and running away from the direction of a DIY PC build project, which just makes sad. So, unless we as a community can help him/her to see the error of their ways, that is where they will end up (starts to cry). I think that getting too deep into the technical aspects for a first time builder only intimidates, confuses and scares them away from the hugely satisfying enjoyment of building your own PC. It's sometimes hard for people like us to simplify the process to an acceptable range, vs. making someone's head explode thinking about CAS timings, clock cycles, voltage adjustments, and other overclocking qualifiers for min/maxing your PC stats. Considering what is commonly available in off the shelf pre-build systems, we are looking at Core i7/i5 or the Phenom II family of processors, but if we can convince and guide our fledgling pc enthusiast into the warm and welcoming light of DIY PC builds we can unload our vast talents and knowledge.
For reference here is another Toms article outlining the general gaming and computing power of todays common processors.
That's only true up to the point at which you have enough, and then adding more doesn't get you much benefit. For most people, that point comes before 4 GB, and hardly anyone needs more than 8 GB. You can get 8 GB of system memory for $50, so I'd recommend that for a lot of people. Someone on a very tight budget may need to cut back to only 4 GB.
The more the merrier. You can also buy upgrades for this online for cheap. This might be a way to save money on a 'shelf' model that has low RAM and better other stats. Then get a cheap upgrade later, but I wouldnt go less than 1GB to start, preferably you want 2GB or more.
Just some comments on the 'comments on the replies', =) overall you provided very valid and sage advice and I thank you for that, but...
"Speed & Number of cores, this is what counts."
"IPC matters, too, and that varies quite a bit. A hypothetical 3 GHz Sandy Bridge quad core would be meaningfully faster than a hypothetical 4 GHz Athlon II quad core, even if we ignore turbo boost and hyperthreading."
Your point is absolutely valid, but in my opinion, a bit more advanced than our OP requires at this time. The OP continues to lean towards an off the shelf pre-build, with a budget under $1000 and running away from the direction of a DIY PC build project, which just makes sad. So, unless we as a community can help him/her to see the error of their ways, that is where they will end up (starts to cry). I think that getting too deep into the technical aspects for a first time builder only intimidates, confuses and scares them away from the hugely satisfying enjoyment of building your own PC. It's sometimes hard for people like us to simplify the process to an acceptable range, vs. making someone's head explode thinking about CAS timings, clock cycles, voltage adjustments, and other overclocking qualifiers for min/maxing your PC stats. Considering what is commonly available in off the shelf pre-build systems, we are looking at Core i7/i5 or the Phenom II family of processors, but if we can convince and guide our fledgling pc enthusiast into the warm and welcoming light of DIY PC builds we can unload our vast talents and knowledge.
For reference here is another Toms article outlining the general gaming and computing power of todays common processors.
That's only true up to the point at which you have enough, and then adding more doesn't get you much benefit. For most people, that point comes before 4 GB, and hardly anyone needs more than 8 GB. You can get 8 GB of system memory for $50, so I'd recommend that for a lot of people. Someone on a very tight budget may need to cut back to only 4 GB.
The more the merrier. You can also buy upgrades for this online for cheap. This might be a way to save money on a 'shelf' model that has low RAM and better other stats. Then get a cheap upgrade later, but I wouldnt go less than 1GB to start, preferably you want 2GB or more.
Just some comments on the 'comments on the replies', =) overall you provided very valid and sage advice and I thank you for that, but...
"Speed & Number of cores, this is what counts."
"IPC matters, too, and that varies quite a bit. A hypothetical 3 GHz Sandy Bridge quad core would be meaningfully faster than a hypothetical 4 GHz Athlon II quad core, even if we ignore turbo boost and hyperthreading."
Your point is absolutely valid, but in my opinion, a bit more advanced than our OP requires at this time. The OP continues to lean towards an off the shelf pre-build, with a budget under $1000 and running away from the direction of a DIY PC build project, which just makes sad. So, unless we as a community can help him/her to see the error of their ways, that is where they will end up (starts to cry). I think that getting too deep into the technical aspects for a first time builder only intimidates, confuses and scares them away from the hugely satisfying enjoyment of building your own PC. It's sometimes hard for people like us to simplify the process to an acceptable range, vs. making someone's head explode thinking about CAS timings, clock cycles, voltage adjustments, and other overclocking qualifiers for min/maxing your PC stats. Considering what is commonly available in off the shelf pre-build systems, we are looking at Core i7/i5 or the Phenom II family of processors, but if we can convince and guide our fledgling pc enthusiast into the warm and welcoming light of DIY PC builds we can unload our vast talents and knowledge.
For reference here is another Toms article outlining the general gaming and computing power of todays common processors.
That's only true up to the point at which you have enough, and then adding more doesn't get you much benefit. For most people, that point comes before 4 GB, and hardly anyone needs more than 8 GB. You can get 8 GB of system memory for $50, so I'd recommend that for a lot of people. Someone on a very tight budget may need to cut back to only 4 GB.
The more the merrier. You can also buy upgrades for this online for cheap. This might be a way to save money on a 'shelf' model that has low RAM and better other stats. Then get a cheap upgrade later, but I wouldnt go less than 1GB to start, preferably you want 2GB or more.
Peace!
how many top of the line amd proc you fit in the price of one intel?probably 3 with 3x6 core proc versus 1 intel top of the line,no mather how much intel wish it will be slower! so get a mobo that can get 2 cpu from amd and you ll still be as fast as intel and still 1/3 cheaper!
how many top of the line amd proc you fit in the price of one intel?probably 3 with 3x6 core proc versus 1 intel top of the line,no mather how much intel wish it will be slower!
so get a mobo that can get 2 cpu from amd and you ll still be as fast as intel and still 1/3 cheaper!
I'm confused, as you quoted virtually everything I've posted in this thread, non of which contained any specific points recommending which brand of cpu to purchase. So could you please ask / state your question/statement a different way?
I'm going to assume you were trying to make a statment of preference regarding AMD vs. Intel based on a price point value comparison. Which I can not argue. It is well known and accepted that Intel chips have always been more expensive than AMD, I don't think anyone here has stated otherwise.
So, yes to your point (if I understand it correctly) AMD is cheaper than Intel. I'm still confused why you quoted so much of my statements to make a point about AMD's less expensive componentry when the OP has yet to decied on pre-built vs. off the shelf options?
And just to show you I'm a good sport and prove how correct you are that yes, AMD's flagship CPU's are indeed very much cheaper than Intel's flagship CPUs. I just took a quick peek around the internet I found the following price points (newegg.com):
AMD Phenom II X6 Black edition (3.3GHz) -- $170-190
AMD Phenom II X6 3GHz or 2.8GHz -- $150-160
AMD Phenom II X4 Black edition (3.7GHz) -- $170
AMD Phenom II X4 2.9GHz -- $160
Intel i7-990x Extreme (6 core 3.46GHz) -- $1000
Intel i7-970 (6 core 3.2GHz) -- $550
Intel i7-975x Extreme (4 core 3.33GHz) -- $1050
Intel i7-2600 (4 core 3.4GHz) -- $300
This certainly paints a glum picture for the Intel fan boys, as the AMD crowd rejoices in their obvious advantage...
Or is it really?
See the problem is, when you compare clock cycle to clock cycle of the actual raw computing horse power or as some like to call it "Real world performance", which one actually performs better in a side by side, application/game/OS comparison, Intel CPU's have always out classed and out paced AMD. So to be fair in the comparison or real world performance we have to 'dumb down' the Intel candidates to one that would be in the same raw horsepower ballpark of the AMD.
It's like comparing a top fuel drag race car to a track ready Porsche GT2 RS. Yes every single time the drag car will beat the Porsche in a 1/4 mile run, in a straight line... Everything other than that, the Porsche wins, hands down...
Keeping that statement mind...
Intel Core i5-2700 (3.1GHz) for $185 has about the same raw computing power as AMD's Phenom II X4 Black edition (3.3GHz) for $170-190.
Price points are about the same, computing power is about the same, but one is a mid level CPU, the other is a special edition that only performs as well as the mid-grade of the competition... This certainly paints a very different picture of both chips. There are always 2 sides to every coin, as we all know opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and they all stink. So I will keep my opinions on the subject of AMD vs. Intel to myself and let the facts and hard data speak for me.
Have a good one.
Jules: You know the shows on TV? Vincent: I don't watch TV. Jules: Yeah, but, you are aware that there's an invention called television, and on this invention they show shows, right?
See the problem is, when you compare clock cycle to clock cycle of the actual raw computing horse power or as some like to call it "Real world performance", which one actually performs better in a side by side, application/game/OS comparison, Intel CPU's have always out classed and out paced AMD. So to be fair in the comparison or real world performance we have to 'dumb down' the Intel candidates to one that would be in the same raw horsepower ballpark of the AMD.
...
Intel Core i5-2700 (3.1GHz) for $185 has about the same raw computing power as AMD's Phenom II X4 Black edition (3.3GHz) for $170-190.
You've got a rather strange definition of "always". From the launch of the Athlon 64 in 2003 up until Intel was finally able to respond with the Core 2 Duo in 2006, AMD almost continuously had the fastest desktop processors on the market.
Since then, Intel has usually had the fastest, though there have been some situations where AMD pulled ahead. For example, if running programs that are mainly limited by memory bandwidth, then an Opteron Magny-Cours processor handily beat anything that Intel had to offer at the time, including the far more expensive Nehalem-EX that launched at about the same time.
Next, there is no such thing as a Core i5-2700, whether for $185 or any other price point. Neither is there any such thing as a 3.3 GHz Phenom II X4. You can get a 3.4 GHz Phenom II X4 for $115:
That's the same nominal clock speed and same number of cores as Intel's top of the line Core i7-2600K that goes for $315.
If all that you're looking at is the nominal clock speed and number of cores, then you wouldn't realize that the Core i7-2600K is a much, much faster processor than the Phenom II X4 965.
I have a 400 watt PSU and a 9800 Nvidea Geforce GT card. If I remember right (been awhile since I installed it) 400 watts was the minimum PSU that I could have. I have never overclocked anything. I realize that I have to make adequate accomidations for overclocking my GPU but I since this Quizz guy seems to know his stuff I was wondering if maybe he ( or anyone else here) could tell me how to go about overclocking a GPU. Thanks in advance.
Thank you sooo much! I would build my own computer but once I get all the parts I don't think I would be able to putting them together in the box and make them work correctly! Is their a site that does that for you? Again, thank you!
building your own machine isnt too hard. it's a matter of learning to handle electronic parts. the problem with building your own computer isn't the act of assymbling the parts, but the diagnostics that need to happen IF something doesn't work. 95% of the time, there wont be a problem and building a computer. it is simply putting the parts together and installing the operating system. the whole process is about as hard as building a lego set. the only thing you need to worry about is keeping yourself grounded while handling the parts or simply putting the parts together on none carpeted floor so you dont build up static electricity to begin with. the issue is IF something actually goes wrong (a part came DOA or something) then you have to diagnose the problem and deal with RMAing the parts.
DO REALIZE that even if you buy a pre assymbled computer, depending on the shop you buy it from, they may not have assymbled it correctly. I just recently worked on a pre built computer that was ordered from a not so reputable vender and the whole thing was assymbled incorrectly. for example, the powersupply was pointed in the wrong direction and it was getting zero airflow because the fan was pointed at a solid sheet of steel known as the bottom of the case:D and no, there were no ventilation holes drilled into the bottom of the case nor was there any gap at the bottom to allow for airflow into the powersupply.
IF you have decided that you do NOT want a laptop AND you do not want to build your own, then the favored site for pre built machines is
Wow I think I'm finnally understanding this! Can anybody please help me by going to this website and making a good gaming desktop for me between $700 and $1100? Thank you guys sooo much for spending so much time and on this thread!
Wow I think I'm finnally understanding this! Can anybody please help me by going to this website and making a good gaming desktop for me between $700 and $1100? Thank you guys sooo much for spending so much time and on this thread!
it's not really price efficent to split your budget into a laptop and a desktop on your 1st purchase especially you are looking to go into computer science major in school.
after a year or 2 in school, you'll have exposed yourself to computers enough to make your own decision on what you want and then you may want to build a desktop. there are no software you'll be using in school that will exceed the capability of a Llano when configured properly. do yourself a favor and put a SSD in the laptop and you wont see a difference from an i7 given your experiance in computers:)
Do you need new peripherals, too? If you also need a new monitor, speakers, keyboard, mouse, and surge protector, then that eats up a decent bit of that budget. If you already have old peripherals that you're going to keep, then that frees up a lot more money for other things.
it's not really price efficent to split your budget into a laptop and a desktop on your 1st purchase especially you are looking to go into computer science major in school.
There's also the question of, does he need a laptop at all? If he doesn't, then that also answers the question of whether to get both a gaming desktop and a cheap laptop.
laptop is a fairly common requirement in college these days. especially if he's going into some kind of computer related major(CS, MIS, etc...) they are expected to do group projects, and laptop is much more efficent when meeting at a library or something like that.
You've got a rather strange definition of "always". From the launch of the Athlon 64 in 2003 up until Intel was finally able to respond with the Core 2 Duo in 2006, AMD almost continuously had the fastest desktop processors on the market.
Since then, Intel has usually had the fastest, though there have been some situations where AMD pulled ahead. For example, if running programs that are mainly limited by memory bandwidth, then an Opteron Magny-Cours processor handily beat anything that Intel had to offer at the time, including the far more expensive Nehalem-EX that launched at about the same time.
Next, there is no such thing as a Core i5-2700, whether for $185 or any other price point. Neither is there any such thing as a 3.3 GHz Phenom II X4. You can get a 3.4 GHz Phenom II X4 for $115:
That's the same nominal clock speed and same number of cores as Intel's top of the line Core i7-2600K that goes for $315.
If all that you're looking at is the nominal clock speed and number of cores, then you wouldn't realize that the Core i7-2600K is a much, much faster processor than the Phenom II X4 965.
I honestly don't care if you want to pick apart my posts till the cows come home. My points are still constructive, accurate and valid, and I'm just trying to add some constructive information for the OP, not get in a pissing contest on the internet... It figures I would get nailed on a typo eventually and I know better than to use the words always or never. It just opens the door for someone to find something to debunk it. My fault for leaving a weak opening for counter points. Regardless, the point I was trying to make still stands... A 'flagship' AMD cpu and a 'mid grade' Intel cpu put out the same performance at the same price point, regardless of nominal clock speeds and cores.
I'm no longer watching this thread so you can exercise your internet prowess without interruption.
Good luck to the OP on your choice of computers. I still assert that you should go netbook/DIY PC for your $1000 budget. You can get a nice netbook for under $250 and spend the rest on a decent DIY setup and probably still have money left over.
I new using the words always or never just opens the door for someone to find something to debunk it. Regardless, the point I was trying to make still stands... A 'flagship' AMD cpu and a 'mid grade' Intel cpu put out the same performance and the same price point
Jules: You know the shows on TV? Vincent: I don't watch TV. Jules: Yeah, but, you are aware that there's an invention called television, and on this invention they show shows, right?
you could buy that one, or you can go to HP's site and configure one yourself:) you'll pay more for premium parts, but you'll also be running on a 1080p screen rather then a 720p screen:) IF you can spend up to $1100, you can configure a really nice laptop from HP.
Nothing against HP laptops (well I do, but it has little to do with this thread):
HP is in the process of selling off their consumer PC division. This will include their laptops.
Now it hasn't been sold yet, but there will be the question of what will happen to the warranty and support when it does finally sell (or gets retired if no buyers take it). It could also mean some dirt cheap HP hardware in the near future (like the dirt cheap TouchPads some people were able to score this weekend).
Maddeline, first, do you need a laptop at all? If you do, then we could compare the cheap laptop plus gaming desktop options to the gaming laptop options. Also, if you do need a laptop, do you need much battery life out of it? And if you were to get a desktop, would you need new peripherals for it?
Part of the reason why the TouchPads were so dirt cheap is that the OS support is being discontinued, so you won't be able to get any software for them. There's no danger of Windows being discontinued in the near future.
Nothing against HP laptops (well I do, but it has little to do with this thread):
HP is in the process of selling off their consumer PC division. This will include their laptops.
Now it hasn't been sold yet, but there will be the question of what will happen to the warranty and support when it does finally sell (or gets retired if no buyers take it). It could also mean some dirt cheap HP hardware in the near future (like the dirt cheap TouchPads some people were able to score this weekend).
Not to derail this thread but do you have anything supporting this? I've read that they are getting out of the tablet sales but not it's whole PC industry. I'm currently deployed and admit am slightly behind the times on some news.
I just need one computer for gaming only really I have other things for HW etc! I'm really lost on where to buy a computer or laptop! I go to see sites you guys listed to put together my computer but I have NO idea which options to choose. So I really don't think putting together my own laptop is a possibly. Is there any website where I can buy a good cheap premade comptuer or laptop? Thanks!
I just need one computer for gaming only really I have other things for HW etc! I'm really lost on where to buy a computer or laptop! I go to see sites you guys listed to put together my computer but I have NO idea which options to choose. So I really don't think putting together my own laptop is a possibly. Is there any website where I can buy a good cheap premade comptuer or laptop? Thanks!
if you are sure you wont need a laptop, and you are sure you dont want to build it yourself, then i'm sure quizzy can pick the parts for you on avadirect. do realize you will be paying alot more for the computer if you have it built by avadirect. but, at least you'll be getting quality parts that will last awhile.
If it's just for gaming, then a desktop definitely makes more sense than a laptop.
Do you need a new monitor, speakers, mouse, keyboard, and surge protector? Those are often purchased independently of a new computer, and reused from an old computer. If you have such peripherals from an old computer that you could reuse for a new one, then you don't need to buy them again. But if you don't have old peripherals at all, then you'll need to buy them, and that eats into your budget.
Originally posted by Gweed0 Originally posted by Ridelynn Nothing against HP laptops (well I do, but it has little to do with this thread): HP is in the process of selling off their consumer PC division. This will include their laptops. Now it hasn't been sold yet, but there will be the question of what will happen to the warranty and support when it does finally sell (or gets retired if no buyers take it). It could also mean some dirt cheap HP hardware in the near future (like the dirt cheap TouchPads some people were able to score this weekend).
Not to derail this thread but do you have anything supporting this? I've read that they are getting out of the tablet sales but not it's whole PC industry. I'm currently deployed and admit am slightly behind the times on some news.
HP will consider a broad range of options that may include, among others, a full or partial separation of PSG (Personal Systems Group - their PC branch) from HP through a spin-off or other transaction
The purported cause is that they are the #1 retailer of PC's in the world, but they carry a very small profit margin. They are anticipating a decline in overall demand in PC's (in large part because of mobile devices and tablets), and don't want to be carrying the dead weight of huge manufacturing and development wing with such a small profit margin. They bet on WebOS, now they don't think that bet was a sound one, so they are jumping ship all together and going to the enterprise market (where the only competition is really IBM and Oracle, and the customers have fat wallets).
In a sub-$1000 budget, you can a laptop that will run nearly any games well enough to be playable at moderate settings. But if you want high graphical settings on that budget, a desktop is your only option.
Agreed, a desktop is always the gamers choice, sometimes with a really cheap laptop or IPAD at the side for portable needs.
There is no way you can get a gaming laptop for 1K$ but you can build a great desktop or get a fine custom machine from your local nerdstore for that price.
Don't know if it will help you anything, but here in Portugal we have this good gaming store that will build computers with the specs you want, or even have the pre-built ones that you can just ask for few personal changes.
I recently bought this one for my little brother:
Just the pc, not the perifericals.
Specs:
- Coolermaster 690 II Advanced
- Fonte Corsair AX-850W Gold
- Asus Sabertooth P67 Socket 1155
- Intel Core I7 2600K
- Corsair Hydro H50
- Gráfica eVGA Gtx 570 1280MB GDDR5
- 8GB G.Skill Sniper 1600Mhz (7-8-7-24)
- 1TB Samsung Spinpoint F3
- LG DVDRW 24x
Little over 1000 euros, sure there must be such shops in US with the same quality more or less.
Comments
yup no one ever needs 8gb ram even crysic 2 doesnt need that much. and frankly you can have a evga classified board with 48gb of ram it wont make a lick of differance if your cpu is a 286 with a 4mb video card..
like i pointed out to the OP, if he does go pre-build with windows vista or win-7 installed on it (ten to one he will get a home ED of either most likely win7 now days)
he really should stress to make sure he has 2gbs of ram right off the bat, just for the OS operations at boot.
mind you ideally the avarage PC user (not heavy gamer) can make due with 2-3gb of ram, typically maxing out at 4gb for any computer... a heavy gamer should really invest in the extra cost and get a base avarage of 6gb of system ram. for their gaming needs
all while making sure the CPU is of quality (power/speed) and their video card isnt a POS lolol
evga just put out some new video cards recently so the OP shouldnt have much trouble finding a decent card for a decent price (as im sure everyone can agree any prebuild computer ALWAYS comes with a joke of a video card)
"Speed & Number of cores, this is what counts."
"IPC matters, too, and that varies quite a bit. A hypothetical 3 GHz Sandy Bridge quad core would be meaningfully faster than a hypothetical 4 GHz Athlon II quad core, even if we ignore turbo boost and hyperthreading."
Your point is absolutely valid, but in my opinion, a bit more advanced than our OP requires at this time. The OP continues to lean towards an off the shelf pre-build, with a budget under $1000 and running away from the direction of a DIY PC build project, which just makes sad. So, unless we as a community can help him/her to see the error of their ways, that is where they will end up (starts to cry). I think that getting too deep into the technical aspects for a first time builder only intimidates, confuses and scares them away from the hugely satisfying enjoyment of building your own PC. It's sometimes hard for people like us to simplify the process to an acceptable range, vs. making someone's head explode thinking about CAS timings, clock cycles, voltage adjustments, and other overclocking qualifiers for min/maxing your PC stats. Considering what is commonly available in off the shelf pre-build systems, we are looking at Core i7/i5 or the Phenom II family of processors, but if we can convince and guide our fledgling pc enthusiast into the warm and welcoming light of DIY PC builds we can unload our vast talents and knowledge.
For reference here is another Toms article outlining the general gaming and computing power of todays common processors.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-llano-processor,2989-5.html
"RAM Memory The more the merrier."
That's only true up to the point at which you have enough, and then adding more doesn't get you much benefit. For most people, that point comes before 4 GB, and hardly anyone needs more than 8 GB. You can get 8 GB of system memory for $50, so I'd recommend that for a lot of people. Someone on a very tight budget may need to cut back to only 4 GB.
The more the merrier. You can also buy upgrades for this online for cheap. This might be a way to save money on a 'shelf' model that has low RAM and better other stats. Then get a cheap upgrade later, but I wouldnt go less than 1GB to start, preferably you want 2GB or more.
Just some comments on the 'comments on the replies', =) overall you provided very valid and sage advice and I thank you for that, but...
"Speed & Number of cores, this is what counts."
"IPC matters, too, and that varies quite a bit. A hypothetical 3 GHz Sandy Bridge quad core would be meaningfully faster than a hypothetical 4 GHz Athlon II quad core, even if we ignore turbo boost and hyperthreading."
Your point is absolutely valid, but in my opinion, a bit more advanced than our OP requires at this time. The OP continues to lean towards an off the shelf pre-build, with a budget under $1000 and running away from the direction of a DIY PC build project, which just makes sad. So, unless we as a community can help him/her to see the error of their ways, that is where they will end up (starts to cry). I think that getting too deep into the technical aspects for a first time builder only intimidates, confuses and scares them away from the hugely satisfying enjoyment of building your own PC. It's sometimes hard for people like us to simplify the process to an acceptable range, vs. making someone's head explode thinking about CAS timings, clock cycles, voltage adjustments, and other overclocking qualifiers for min/maxing your PC stats. Considering what is commonly available in off the shelf pre-build systems, we are looking at Core i7/i5 or the Phenom II family of processors, but if we can convince and guide our fledgling pc enthusiast into the warm and welcoming light of DIY PC builds we can unload our vast talents and knowledge.
For reference here is another Toms article outlining the general gaming and computing power of todays common processors.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-llano-processor,2989-5.html
"RAM Memory The more the merrier."
That's only true up to the point at which you have enough, and then adding more doesn't get you much benefit. For most people, that point comes before 4 GB, and hardly anyone needs more than 8 GB. You can get 8 GB of system memory for $50, so I'd recommend that for a lot of people. Someone on a very tight budget may need to cut back to only 4 GB.
The more the merrier. You can also buy upgrades for this online for cheap. This might be a way to save money on a 'shelf' model that has low RAM and better other stats. Then get a cheap upgrade later, but I wouldnt go less than 1GB to start, preferably you want 2GB or more.
Just some comments on the 'comments on the replies', =) overall you provided very valid and sage advice and I thank you for that, but...
"Speed & Number of cores, this is what counts."
"IPC matters, too, and that varies quite a bit. A hypothetical 3 GHz Sandy Bridge quad core would be meaningfully faster than a hypothetical 4 GHz Athlon II quad core, even if we ignore turbo boost and hyperthreading."
Your point is absolutely valid, but in my opinion, a bit more advanced than our OP requires at this time. The OP continues to lean towards an off the shelf pre-build, with a budget under $1000 and running away from the direction of a DIY PC build project, which just makes sad. So, unless we as a community can help him/her to see the error of their ways, that is where they will end up (starts to cry). I think that getting too deep into the technical aspects for a first time builder only intimidates, confuses and scares them away from the hugely satisfying enjoyment of building your own PC. It's sometimes hard for people like us to simplify the process to an acceptable range, vs. making someone's head explode thinking about CAS timings, clock cycles, voltage adjustments, and other overclocking qualifiers for min/maxing your PC stats. Considering what is commonly available in off the shelf pre-build systems, we are looking at Core i7/i5 or the Phenom II family of processors, but if we can convince and guide our fledgling pc enthusiast into the warm and welcoming light of DIY PC builds we can unload our vast talents and knowledge.
For reference here is another Toms article outlining the general gaming and computing power of todays common processors.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-llano-processor,2989-5.html
"RAM Memory The more the merrier."
That's only true up to the point at which you have enough, and then adding more doesn't get you much benefit. For most people, that point comes before 4 GB, and hardly anyone needs more than 8 GB. You can get 8 GB of system memory for $50, so I'd recommend that for a lot of people. Someone on a very tight budget may need to cut back to only 4 GB.
The more the merrier. You can also buy upgrades for this online for cheap. This might be a way to save money on a 'shelf' model that has low RAM and better other stats. Then get a cheap upgrade later, but I wouldnt go less than 1GB to start, preferably you want 2GB or more.
Peace!
how many top of the line amd proc you fit in the price of one intel?probably 3 with 3x6 core proc versus 1 intel top of the line,no mather how much intel wish it will be slower!
so get a mobo that can get 2 cpu from amd and you ll still be as fast as intel and still 1/3 cheaper!
BUILD YOUR PC, BUY PARTS AND IF YOU CANT PUT THEM TOGETHER YOU MUST BE ALABAMA FARMER
I'm confused, as you quoted virtually everything I've posted in this thread, non of which contained any specific points recommending which brand of cpu to purchase. So could you please ask / state your question/statement a different way?
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I'm going to assume you were trying to make a statment of preference regarding AMD vs. Intel based on a price point value comparison. Which I can not argue. It is well known and accepted that Intel chips have always been more expensive than AMD, I don't think anyone here has stated otherwise.
So, yes to your point (if I understand it correctly) AMD is cheaper than Intel. I'm still confused why you quoted so much of my statements to make a point about AMD's less expensive componentry when the OP has yet to decied on pre-built vs. off the shelf options?
And just to show you I'm a good sport and prove how correct you are that yes, AMD's flagship CPU's are indeed very much cheaper than Intel's flagship CPUs. I just took a quick peek around the internet I found the following price points (newegg.com):
AMD Phenom II X6 Black edition (3.3GHz) -- $170-190
AMD Phenom II X6 3GHz or 2.8GHz -- $150-160
AMD Phenom II X4 Black edition (3.7GHz) -- $170
AMD Phenom II X4 2.9GHz -- $160
Intel i7-990x Extreme (6 core 3.46GHz) -- $1000
Intel i7-970 (6 core 3.2GHz) -- $550
Intel i7-975x Extreme (4 core 3.33GHz) -- $1050
Intel i7-2600 (4 core 3.4GHz) -- $300
This certainly paints a glum picture for the Intel fan boys, as the AMD crowd rejoices in their obvious advantage...
Or is it really?
See the problem is, when you compare clock cycle to clock cycle of the actual raw computing horse power or as some like to call it "Real world performance", which one actually performs better in a side by side, application/game/OS comparison, Intel CPU's have always out classed and out paced AMD. So to be fair in the comparison or real world performance we have to 'dumb down' the Intel candidates to one that would be in the same raw horsepower ballpark of the AMD.
It's like comparing a top fuel drag race car to a track ready Porsche GT2 RS. Yes every single time the drag car will beat the Porsche in a 1/4 mile run, in a straight line... Everything other than that, the Porsche wins, hands down...
Keeping that statement mind...
Intel Core i5-2700 (3.1GHz) for $185 has about the same raw computing power as AMD's Phenom II X4 Black edition (3.3GHz) for $170-190.
Price points are about the same, computing power is about the same, but one is a mid level CPU, the other is a special edition that only performs as well as the mid-grade of the competition... This certainly paints a very different picture of both chips. There are always 2 sides to every coin, as we all know opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and they all stink. So I will keep my opinions on the subject of AMD vs. Intel to myself and let the facts and hard data speak for me.
Have a good one.
Jules: You know the shows on TV?
Vincent: I don't watch TV.
Jules: Yeah, but, you are aware that there's an invention called television, and on this invention they show shows, right?
You've got a rather strange definition of "always". From the launch of the Athlon 64 in 2003 up until Intel was finally able to respond with the Core 2 Duo in 2006, AMD almost continuously had the fastest desktop processors on the market.
Since then, Intel has usually had the fastest, though there have been some situations where AMD pulled ahead. For example, if running programs that are mainly limited by memory bandwidth, then an Opteron Magny-Cours processor handily beat anything that Intel had to offer at the time, including the far more expensive Nehalem-EX that launched at about the same time.
Next, there is no such thing as a Core i5-2700, whether for $185 or any other price point. Neither is there any such thing as a 3.3 GHz Phenom II X4. You can get a 3.4 GHz Phenom II X4 for $115:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103727
That's the same nominal clock speed and same number of cores as Intel's top of the line Core i7-2600K that goes for $315.
If all that you're looking at is the nominal clock speed and number of cores, then you wouldn't realize that the Core i7-2600K is a much, much faster processor than the Phenom II X4 965.
I have a 400 watt PSU and a 9800 Nvidea Geforce GT card. If I remember right (been awhile since I installed it) 400 watts was the minimum PSU that I could have. I have never overclocked anything. I realize that I have to make adequate accomidations for overclocking my GPU but I since this Quizz guy seems to know his stuff I was wondering if maybe he ( or anyone else here) could tell me how to go about overclocking a GPU. Thanks in advance.
Im sorry but................LOL AT PSU being installed like that.
Wow
I think I'm finnally understanding this! Can anybody please help me by going to this website and making a good gaming desktop for me between $700 and $1100? 
Thank you guys sooo much for spending so much time and on this thread! 
http://www.avadirect.com/gaming-pc-configurator.asp?PRID=13282
to be honest, you'd be better off buying the HP Llano laptop for your purpose.
http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/series/category/notebooks/dv6zqe_series/3/computer_store
it's not really price efficent to split your budget into a laptop and a desktop on your 1st purchase especially you are looking to go into computer science major in school.
after a year or 2 in school, you'll have exposed yourself to computers enough to make your own decision on what you want and then you may want to build a desktop. there are no software you'll be using in school that will exceed the capability of a Llano when configured properly. do yourself a favor and put a SSD in the laptop and you wont see a difference from an i7 given your experiance in computers:)
Do you need new peripherals, too? If you also need a new monitor, speakers, keyboard, mouse, and surge protector, then that eats up a decent bit of that budget. If you already have old peripherals that you're going to keep, then that frees up a lot more money for other things.
There's also the question of, does he need a laptop at all? If he doesn't, then that also answers the question of whether to get both a gaming desktop and a cheap laptop.
laptop is a fairly common requirement in college these days. especially if he's going into some kind of computer related major(CS, MIS, etc...) they are expected to do group projects, and laptop is much more efficent when meeting at a library or something like that.
I honestly don't care if you want to pick apart my posts till the cows come home. My points are still constructive, accurate and valid, and I'm just trying to add some constructive information for the OP, not get in a pissing contest on the internet... It figures I would get nailed on a typo eventually and I know better than to use the words always or never. It just opens the door for someone to find something to debunk it. My fault for leaving a weak opening for counter points. Regardless, the point I was trying to make still stands... A 'flagship' AMD cpu and a 'mid grade' Intel cpu put out the same performance at the same price point, regardless of nominal clock speeds and cores.
I'm no longer watching this thread so you can exercise your internet prowess without interruption.
Good luck to the OP on your choice of computers. I still assert that you should go netbook/DIY PC for your $1000 budget. You can get a nice netbook for under $250 and spend the rest on a decent DIY setup and probably still have money left over.
Oh, and it was supposed to be...
i5-400 Sandy Bridge 3.1GHz - for about $190
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115074
Phenom II X4 980 Black Edition 3.7GHz - for about $190
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103934
i5-2400 Sandy Bridge 3.1GHz - for about $190
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115074
Phenom II X4 980 Black Edition 3.7GHz - for about $170
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103934
I new using the words always or never just opens the door for someone to find something to debunk it. Regardless, the point I was trying to make still stands... A 'flagship' AMD cpu and a 'mid grade' Intel cpu put out the same performance and the same price point
Jules: You know the shows on TV?
Vincent: I don't watch TV.
Jules: Yeah, but, you are aware that there's an invention called television, and on this invention they show shows, right?
Hey guys! How is this laptop?
Thanks again!
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2388287,00.asp
you could buy that one, or you can go to HP's site and configure one yourself:) you'll pay more for premium parts, but you'll also be running on a 1080p screen rather then a 720p screen:) IF you can spend up to $1100, you can configure a really nice laptop from HP.
Nothing against HP laptops (well I do, but it has little to do with this thread):
HP is in the process of selling off their consumer PC division. This will include their laptops.
Now it hasn't been sold yet, but there will be the question of what will happen to the warranty and support when it does finally sell (or gets retired if no buyers take it). It could also mean some dirt cheap HP hardware in the near future (like the dirt cheap TouchPads some people were able to score this weekend).
Maddeline, first, do you need a laptop at all? If you do, then we could compare the cheap laptop plus gaming desktop options to the gaming laptop options. Also, if you do need a laptop, do you need much battery life out of it? And if you were to get a desktop, would you need new peripherals for it?
Part of the reason why the TouchPads were so dirt cheap is that the OS support is being discontinued, so you won't be able to get any software for them. There's no danger of Windows being discontinued in the near future.
Not to derail this thread but do you have anything supporting this? I've read that they are getting out of the tablet sales but not it's whole PC industry. I'm currently deployed and admit am slightly behind the times on some news.
I just need one computer for gaming only really I have other things for HW etc!
I'm really lost on where to buy a computer or laptop! 
I go to see sites you guys listed to put together my computer but I have NO idea which options to choose. 
So I really don't think putting together my own laptop is a possibly. 
Is there any website where I can buy a good cheap premade comptuer or laptop? Thanks!
if you are sure you wont need a laptop, and you are sure you dont want to build it yourself, then i'm sure quizzy can pick the parts for you on avadirect. do realize you will be paying alot more for the computer if you have it built by avadirect. but, at least you'll be getting quality parts that will last awhile.
If it's just for gaming, then a desktop definitely makes more sense than a laptop.
Do you need a new monitor, speakers, mouse, keyboard, and surge protector? Those are often purchased independently of a new computer, and reused from an old computer. If you have such peripherals from an old computer that you could reuse for a new one, then you don't need to buy them again. But if you don't have old peripherals at all, then you'll need to buy them, and that eats into your budget.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/238447/hps_pc_business_spinoff_could_benefit_consumers.html
From HP themselves:
The purported cause is that they are the #1 retailer of PC's in the world, but they carry a very small profit margin. They are anticipating a decline in overall demand in PC's (in large part because of mobile devices and tablets), and don't want to be carrying the dead weight of huge manufacturing and development wing with such a small profit margin. They bet on WebOS, now they don't think that bet was a sound one, so they are jumping ship all together and going to the enterprise market (where the only competition is really IBM and Oracle, and the customers have fat wallets).
$940 with rebate:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834230027
Intel Core i7-2630QM
6GB DDR3
1.5 GB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460M
1920 x 1080
I have the previous JW model and it plays everything from Witcher 2 on down on high settings.
Don't know if it will help you anything, but here in Portugal we have this good gaming store that will build computers with the specs you want, or even have the pre-built ones that you can just ask for few personal changes.
I recently bought this one for my little brother:
Just the pc, not the perifericals.
Specs:
- Coolermaster 690 II Advanced
- Fonte Corsair AX-850W Gold
- Asus Sabertooth P67 Socket 1155
- Intel Core I7 2600K
- Corsair Hydro H50
- Gráfica eVGA Gtx 570 1280MB GDDR5
- 8GB G.Skill Sniper 1600Mhz (7-8-7-24)
- 1TB Samsung Spinpoint F3
- LG DVDRW 24x
Little over 1000 euros, sure there must be such shops in US with the same quality more or less.
ps: no OS
"I am not a robot. I am a unicorn."