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Is this game just another, the latest or the last?

Cactus201Cactus201 Member Posts: 160

Is Final Fantasy just a number in a long serie? The latest title of the franchise or the last one of it?

I really don't care what people who don't play the game think. I'm really talking to fellow players here.

What are this game's main issues, what about what's in development? Don't tell me "It sucks" with 3 typos it's not a valid argument.

Keep it constructive.

Existence is a paradox. It just is.

Comments

  • XzenXzen Member UncommonPosts: 2,607

    There will be more after XIV. As for XIV it's self it will never recover from it's failed launch but it will hang on to the community it has.

  • HyanmenHyanmen Member UncommonPosts: 5,357
    The game's main issues lie in the way the client and server interact, as well as the overall optimization of the engine.

    In development:

    -Restructure of the combat system (animation tweaks, damage/stat overhaul, program-side revisions etc.). Sept/October implementation.
    -Rehaul of actions (distribution among classes, mp costs, potency, effects, threat/enmity, limiting the skills that can be used cross-class etc.) Primary reason to give each class unique flavor and balance. November/December implementation.
    -Restructuring of the growth system (combining physical level and class rank into one entity, making stat allocations class-specific, de-emphasizing the growth of character with one activity alone). Sept/Oct. Implementation
    -Implementation of a Job System (to pave the road for specific party roles while keeping the Class system to allow for more versatility when playing alone). Late 2011/Early 2012 implementation.
    -Monster claiming/engaging overhaul. September/October.

    -Crafting recipe overhaul to simplify the current recipes and make crafting more accessible.
    -De-emphasis of crafting as the primary method for acquiring equipment.
    -addition of equipment enchanting system (Materia) to promote crafting after the de-emphasis of its current role.
    -Item stat rehauls (to make them stand out, provide clearer goals for players to aim towards, to enhance class uniqueness, and allow for a more signifcant boost in player strength for wearing equipment other than the weapon of choice).
    ^everything above in september/october.

    -Addition of Primal battles (first is Ifrit). Two battles, one in Sept./Oct and another in late 2011.
    -Caravan escort system (to pave the road for Hamlet defense content). Sept/Oct., hamlet defense schedule unknown.
    -beastman stronghold raids (what they mean by the term raid is unknown as of yet). 3 strongholds to be added by October.
    -rental and personal chocobo implementation by October, customizable equipment for chocobos by late 2011. Airships too.
    -further Grand Company related content (supply and replenishment objectives, quests). By october.
    -Enemy linking system (call for reinforcements), addition of a chain bonus for killing enemies in a fast succession. By October.
    -Guildleve ticket system to store unused leves. By october.

    Plus a plethora of minor or less major adjustments (mainly dealing with UI and the new combat system) planned for Sept-end of the year.

    As for more long term plans without a clear schedule yet:

    -UI client/server interaction overhaul, design overhauls.
    -Engine performance adjustments.
    -Server repairs and modification (work progressing but implementation schedule unknown).
    -AH system, plus various features related to the server to be implemented after server repairs have been finished.
    -Jumping mechanics.
    -Major area overhauls to enhance uniqueness in each zone (concept and samples ready, currently in design phase). Aim to have three different themes per region with their own major landmarks to set the tone for each zone.
    -Addition of remaining genders.
    -some sort of pvp (the producer is a huge pvp fan so its inevitable)
    -Personal housing (public company related)

    As well as what you would normally expect... New missions, sidequests, classes (Arcanist class with a Geomancer job hinted at), raid instances.

    So in a nutshell... Busy year coming up, leading up to the PS3 release. It may or may not be enough, mainly decided by the server repairs and engine tweaks.
    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • birdycephonbirdycephon Member UncommonPosts: 1,314

    Originally posted by Hyanmen

    The game's main issues lie in the way the client and server interact, as well as the overall optimization of the engine.



    In development:



    -Restructure of the combat system (animation tweaks, damage/stat overhaul, program-side revisions etc.). Sept/October implementation.

    -Rehaul of actions (distribution among classes, mp costs, potency, effects, threat/enmity, limiting the skills that can be used cross-class etc.) Primary reason to give each class unique flavor and balance. November/December implementation.

    -Restructuring of the growth system (combining physical level and class rank into one entity, making stat allocations class-specific, de-emphasizing the growth of character with one activity alone). Sept/Oct. Implementation


    .... Not sure if that's a good or bad thing

    -Implementation of a Job System (to pave the road for specific party roles while keeping the Class system to allow for more versatility when playing alone). Late 2011/Early 2012 implementation.

    -Monster claiming/engaging overhaul. September/October.



    -Crafting recipe overhaul to simplify the current recipes and make crafting more accessible.

    -De-emphasis of crafting as the primary method for acquiring equipment.


    Are they insane? The emphasis on crafting is what made Final Fantasy MMO so great.

    -addition of equipment enchanting system (Materia) to promote crafting after the de-emphasis of its current role.

    -Item stat rehauls (to make them stand out, provide clearer goals for players to aim towards, to enhance class uniqueness, and allow for a more signifcant boost in player strength for wearing equipment other than the weapon of choice).

    ^everything above in september/october.



    -Addition of Primal battles (first is Ifrit). Two battles, one in Sept./Oct and another in late 2011.

    -Caravan escort system (to pave the road for Hamlet defense content). Sept/Oct., hamlet defense schedule unknown.

    -beastman stronghold raids (what they mean by the term raid is unknown as of yet). 3 strongholds to be added by October.

    -rental and personal chocobo implementation by October, customizable equipment for chocobos by late 2011. Airships too.

    -further Grand Company related content (supply and replenishment objectives, quests). By october.

    -Enemy linking system (call for reinforcements), addition of a chain bonus for killing enemies in a fast succession. By October.


    Yay, linking!

    -Guildleve ticket system to store unused leves. By october.



    Plus a plethora of minor or less major adjustments (mainly dealing with UI and the new combat system) planned for Sept-end of the year.



    As for more long term plans without a clear schedule yet:



    -UI client/server interaction overhaul, design overhauls.

    -Engine performance adjustments.

    -Server repairs and modification (work progressing but implementation schedule unknown).

    -AH system, plus various features related to the server to be implemented after server repairs have been finished.

    -Jumping mechanics.

    -Major area overhauls to enhance uniqueness in each zone (concept and samples ready, currently in design phase). Aim to have three different themes per region with their own major landmarks to set the tone for each zone.

    -Addition of remaining genders.


    You mean we get to see male Miqote?

    -some sort of pvp (the producer is a huge pvp fan so its inevitable)

    -Personal housing (public company related)



    As well as what you would normally expect... New missions, sidequests, classes (Arcanist class with a Geomancer job hinted at), raid instances.


    Yay, those are always great.



    So in a (Kupo)nutshell... Busy year coming up, leading up to the PS3 release. It may or may not be enough, mainly decided by the server repairs and engine tweaks.
  • KhrymsonKhrymson Member UncommonPosts: 3,090

    Originally posted by birdycephon



    -Addition of remaining genders.

    You mean we get to see male Miqote?

     

    Yup, Male Miqo'te and Female Roegadyn are planned to be playable for the launch of the PS3 version.  And Yoshida has also said that there are plans to add new races in the future...

     

     

     


     Originally Posted by Naoki Yoshida


    Though new races are quite far off in the future, once various fixes are made, the PlayStation 3 version launches, and the timing is right for an expansion, we will be adding original races to the world of FFXIV.



    First, to coincide with the PS3 launch, we will be adding female Roegadyns and other genders to those races that are currently lacking. The next step is to look into 
    new races.

     

     

    And if ya havn't yet seen, a female Roegadyn has made an apperance: {skip ahead to 6:15}

     

     

  • HyanmenHyanmen Member UncommonPosts: 5,357
    As far as overall balance is concerned, the changes listed above create a much healthier environment for the society as a whole. Stats will have a larger impact since they aren't universal, combat classes aren't as massively dependent on crafters as they were before, but will still remain relevant in the new economy. Items will have new-found value with the stat rehaul.
    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • Zookz1Zookz1 Member Posts: 629

    This game needs at least another year in development before I'd pay a sub fee for it. It's getting better, but it's doing so very slowly. My biggest gripe with the game is their horrendous netcode and server-client interaction. Combat still feels like absolute shit(IMO), and overall the game is just not as responsive as it could be.

     

    Ever fight a Dodo or a Puk and very clearly dodge their TP move yet still get hit by it?

    Here's why:

     

    So long as problems like that exist, combat will remain boring and clunky. Who cares about fighting Ifrit when their server code is that bad. Instead of fixing things like that, they instead start developing jump and chocobos. I can't imagine how terrible and disjointed it will look with the way the server handles character positioning now. I just don't get it. 

  • MuruganMurugan Member Posts: 1,494

    Exaggeration, bad players always blame "lag".

     

    It is not the issue you or that video make it out to be.

  • ExilorExilor Member Posts: 391

    Originally posted by Khrymson

    Originally posted by birdycephon




    -Addition of remaining genders.

    You mean we get to see male Miqote?

     

    Yup, Male Miqo'te and Female Roegadyn are planned to be playable for the launch of the PS3 version.  And Yoshida has also said that there are plans to add new races in the future...

     

     

     


     Originally Posted by Naoki Yoshida


    Though new races are quite far off in the future, once various fixes are made, the PlayStation 3 version launches, and the timing is right for an expansion, we will be adding original races to the world of FFXIV.



    First, to coincide with the PS3 launch, we will be adding female Roegadyns and other genders to those races that are currently lacking. The next step is to look into 
    new races.

     

     

    And if ya havn't yet seen, a female Roegadyn has made an apperance: {skip ahead to 6:15}

     

     

    Roegadyn? Because she has a broader nose bridge than average?

  • Zookz1Zookz1 Member Posts: 629

    Originally posted by Murugan

    Exaggeration, bad players always blame "lag".

     

    It is not the issue you or that video make it out to be.

     

    Nice ad hominem. There's really no justification for it, but such is the case when you have no valid argument. With netcode like that, I think it severely limits the implementation of interesting and strategic combat elements. If they're building the foundation for the game, this should be pretty darn high on the priority list. You may disagree, which is fine, but at least attempt to make a reasonable argument instead of spouting off ridiculous nonsense i.e. it's only a problem for bad players. You're not helping the game by plugging your ears and stomping your feet in regards to valid problems.

  • MuruganMurugan Member Posts: 1,494

    Originally posted by Zookz1

    Originally posted by Murugan

    Exaggeration, bad players always blame "lag".

     

    It is not the issue you or that video make it out to be.

     

    Nice ad hominem. There's really no justification for it, but such is the case when you have no valid argument. With netcode like that, I think it severely limits the implementation of interesting and strategic combat elements. If they're building the foundation for the game, this should be pretty darn high on the priority list. You may disagree, which is fine, but at least attempt to make a reasonable argument instead of spouting off ridiculous nonsense i.e. it's only a problem for bad players. You're not helping the game by plugging your ears and stomping your feet in regards to valid problems.

    "Plugging your ears and stomping your feet"  sounds more like what you are doing.  No interesting combat mechanics?  I don't know what you are getting at there are plenty of interesting combat mechanics at places like darkhold.  If lag was the problem you claim it is then it would be near impossible to clear it. 

     

    I manually dodge, stun, spot heal, participate in Battle Regimen, and do dozens of other things which require precision just fine with the current "netcode".  Sometimes people lag in an MMO, but you're wrong if you think that XIV's "netcode" makes it impossible to play at a high level since many people are doing just that.  But if you want to believe it is impossible or severely limiting then don't let me get in the way of your excuses.

     

    I'd like it if it were faster, and I didn't say it wasn't an issue at all, but people like you blow it way out of proportion with your ridiculous claims and that's all i said.

  • Zookz1Zookz1 Member Posts: 629

    Originally posted by Murugan

    Originally posted by Zookz1


    Originally posted by Murugan

    Exaggeration, bad players always blame "lag".

     

    It is not the issue you or that video make it out to be.

     

    Nice ad hominem. There's really no justification for it, but such is the case when you have no valid argument. With netcode like that, I think it severely limits the implementation of interesting and strategic combat elements. If they're building the foundation for the game, this should be pretty darn high on the priority list. You may disagree, which is fine, but at least attempt to make a reasonable argument instead of spouting off ridiculous nonsense i.e. it's only a problem for bad players. You're not helping the game by plugging your ears and stomping your feet in regards to valid problems.

    "Plugging your ears and stomping your feet"  sounds more like what you are doing.  No interesting combat mechanics?  I don't know what you are getting at there are plenty of interesting combat mechanics at places like darkhold.  If lag was the problem you claim it is then it would be near impossible to clear it. 

     

    I manually dodge, stun, spot heal, participate in Battle Regimen, and do dozens of other things which require precision just fine with the current "netcode".  Sometimes people lag in an MMO, but you're wrong if you think that XIV's "netcode" makes it impossible to play at a high level since many people are doing just that.  But if you want to believe it is impossible or severely limiting then don't let me get in the way of your excuses.

     

    I'd like it if it were faster, and I didn't say it wasn't an issue at all, but people like you blow it way out of proportion with your ridiculous claims and that's all i said.

     

    I'm doing nothign of the sort. I recognize that Yoshi P. has made a pretty significant difference in the game, but I am not willing to ignore the other problems. I didn't say there weren't already interesting mechanics; I said with the way client-server communication is currently set up it will be a limiting factor in the future. Have you ever attempted to heal someone who is five feet from you and then have them show up much farther away while you get an out of range message? If positioning in combat is going to become important and strategic, then they must address this.

     

    Let's be clear about this. Lag, as it's often understood, is not the root cause of this problem. The location of the server has nothing to do with it. The abysmally low rate at which the server updates character position is what you see in that video. It's not an one-off occurance. It is always present. Of course, it's not impossible to play the game and succeed, and I never said that, but it is an issue. One you seem to be downplaying, when it's pretty clear from that video and player experience that it's a problem.

     

    All I can do is offer my opinion and the opinion of a part of the community. You chose to challenge it with an utterly inane and stupid response.

  • MuruganMurugan Member Posts: 1,494

    Originally posted by Zookz1

    Originally posted by Murugan

    "Plugging your ears and stomping your feet"  sounds more like what you are doing.  No interesting combat mechanics?  I don't know what you are getting at there are plenty of interesting combat mechanics at places like darkhold.  If lag was the problem you claim it is then it would be near impossible to clear it. 

     

    I manually dodge, stun, spot heal, participate in Battle Regimen, and do dozens of other things which require precision just fine with the current "netcode".  Sometimes people lag in an MMO, but you're wrong if you think that XIV's "netcode" makes it impossible to play at a high level since many people are doing just that.  But if you want to believe it is impossible or severely limiting then don't let me get in the way of your excuses.

     

    I'd like it if it were faster, and I didn't say it wasn't an issue at all, but people like you blow it way out of proportion with your ridiculous claims and that's all i said.

     

    I'm doing nothign of the sort. I recognize that Yoshi P. has made a pretty significant difference in the game, but I am not willing to ignore the other problems. I didn't say there weren't already interesting mechanics; I said with the way client-server communication is currently set up it will be a limiting factor in the future. Have you ever attempted to heal someone who is five feet from you and then have them show up much farther away while you get an out of range message? If positioning in combat is going to become important and strategic, then they must address this.

     

    Let's be clear about this. Lag, as it's often understood, is not the root cause of this problem. The location of the server has nothing to do with it. The abysmally low rate at which the server updates character position is what you see in that video. It's not an one-off occurance. It is always present. Of course, it's not impossible to play the game and succeed, and I never said that, but it is an issue. One you seem to be downplaying, when it's pretty clear from that video and player experience that it's a problem.

     

    All I can do is offer my opinion and the opinion of a part of the community. You chose to challenge it with an utterly inane and stupid response.

    Positioning in combat is important and strategic. 

     

    "Of course, it's not impossible to play the game and succeed, and I never said that, but it is an issue."

     

    and if you had just said something reasonable like that I wouldn't have "challenged it".  Instead you said:


    Originally posted by Zookz1

    My biggest gripe with the game is their horrendous netcode and server-client interaction. Combat still feels like absolute shit(IMO), and overall the game is just not as responsive as it could be.

     

    Ever fight a Dodo or a Puk and very clearly dodge their TP move yet still get hit by it?

    Here's why:

     

    So long as problems like that exist, combat will remain boring and clunky. Who cares about fighting Ifrit when their server code is that bad. Instead of fixing things like that, they instead start developing jump and chocobos. I can't imagine how terrible and disjointed it will look with the way the server handles character positioning now. I just don't get it. 

    and


    Originally posted by Zookz1

     

    With netcode like that, I think it severely limits the implementation of interesting and strategic combat elements.

     

    Which gives a false impression of how serious the problema actually is, or the game actually plays.  The fact is that both Batraal, Ogre, even the r30 instance bosses or some of the NM's which have been out for 9 months have interesting encounter mechanics, and Ifrit most likely will as well. 

     

    Oh and yes, despite not being a healer I constantly heal people when training if you start to heal someone who is running away from you then yes you need to take that into account so that they are not out of range, and it is possible that due to lag you need to compensate a bit more.  Sometimes if I am lagging the Eye will appear to slide before unleashing his AOE making my guess of where it would hit be off.  I know precisely the problem you are talking about, but I'm only downplaying it because I don't agree it is the gamebreaking issue you do.

     

    I also don't find combat slow or clunky, I wouldn't want to see it any faster without being a mindless spam fest, as I am already always doing something. 

     

    If you aren't then you are probably very low level, or not using all the abilities you could.  If you can't dodge/interrupt the necessary abilities regularly then you are probably doing something wrong.  The netcode is a problem that I hope will be improved on, but what it isn't causing is either the developers or (most of) the players to be handicapped in how they design or play difficult encounters.

  • Zookz1Zookz1 Member Posts: 629

    Originally posted by Murugan

    Originally posted by Zookz1


    Originally posted by Murugan



    "Plugging your ears and stomping your feet"  sounds more like what you are doing.  No interesting combat mechanics?  I don't know what you are getting at there are plenty of interesting combat mechanics at places like darkhold.  If lag was the problem you claim it is then it would be near impossible to clear it. 

     

    I manually dodge, stun, spot heal, participate in Battle Regimen, and do dozens of other things which require precision just fine with the current "netcode".  Sometimes people lag in an MMO, but you're wrong if you think that XIV's "netcode" makes it impossible to play at a high level since many people are doing just that.  But if you want to believe it is impossible or severely limiting then don't let me get in the way of your excuses.

     

    I'd like it if it were faster, and I didn't say it wasn't an issue at all, but people like you blow it way out of proportion with your ridiculous claims and that's all i said.

     

    I'm doing nothign of the sort. I recognize that Yoshi P. has made a pretty significant difference in the game, but I am not willing to ignore the other problems. I didn't say there weren't already interesting mechanics; I said with the way client-server communication is currently set up it will be a limiting factor in the future. Have you ever attempted to heal someone who is five feet from you and then have them show up much farther away while you get an out of range message? If positioning in combat is going to become important and strategic, then they must address this.

     

    Let's be clear about this. Lag, as it's often understood, is not the root cause of this problem. The location of the server has nothing to do with it. The abysmally low rate at which the server updates character position is what you see in that video. It's not an one-off occurance. It is always present. Of course, it's not impossible to play the game and succeed, and I never said that, but it is an issue. One you seem to be downplaying, when it's pretty clear from that video and player experience that it's a problem.

     

    All I can do is offer my opinion and the opinion of a part of the community. You chose to challenge it with an utterly inane and stupid response.

    Positioning in combat is important and strategic. 

     

    "Of course, it's not impossible to play the game and succeed, and I never said that, but it is an issue."

     

    and if you had just said something reasonable like that I wouldn't have "challenged it".  Instead you said:


    Originally posted by Zookz1

    My biggest gripe with the game is their horrendous netcode and server-client interaction. Combat still feels like absolute shit(IMO), and overall the game is just not as responsive as it could be.

     

    Ever fight a Dodo or a Puk and very clearly dodge their TP move yet still get hit by it?

    Here's why:

     

    So long as problems like that exist, combat will remain boring and clunky. Who cares about fighting Ifrit when their server code is that bad. Instead of fixing things like that, they instead start developing jump and chocobos. I can't imagine how terrible and disjointed it will look with the way the server handles character positioning now. I just don't get it. 

    and


    Originally posted by Zookz1



     

    With netcode like that, I think it severely limits the implementation of interesting and strategic combat elements.

     

    Which gives a false impression of how serious the problema actually is, or the game actually plays.  The fact is that both Batraal, Ogre, even the r30 instance bosses or some of the NM's which have been out for 9 months have interesting encounter mechanics, and Ifrit most likely will as well. 

     

    Oh and yes, despite not being a healer I constantly heal people when training if you start to heal someone who is running away from you then yes you need to take that into account so that they are not out of range, and it is possible that due to lag you need to compensate a bit more.  Sometimes if I am lagging the Eye will appear to slide before unleashing his AOE making my guess of where it would hit be off.  I know precisely the problem you are talking about, but I'm only downplaying it because I don't agree it is the gamebreaking issue you do.

     

    I also don't find combat slow or clunky, I wouldn't want to see it any faster without being a mindless spam fest, as I am already always doing something. 

     

    If you aren't then you are probably very low level, or not using all the abilities you could.  If you can't dodge/interrupt the necessary abilities regularly then you are probably doing something wrong.  The netcode is a problem that I hope will be improved on, but what it isn't causing is either the developers or (most of) the players to be handicapped in how they design or play difficult encounters.

     

    I and others find it to be a pretty serious problem. In my opinion, all areas of the game still feels a bit sluggish, and this is the reason why. When the underlying system that runs everything in the game is poorly optimized, then it's going to be a problem with everything they try to do. It doesn't feel so drastic in-game, I admit, but watching that video shows how bad the problem actually is. I expect there to be a bit of desynch in character positioning in every MMO, but not to that degree.

     

  • HyanmenHyanmen Member UncommonPosts: 5,357
    Originally posted by Zookz1


    So long as problems like that exist, combat will remain boring and clunky. Who cares about fighting Ifrit when their server code is that bad. Instead of fixing things like that, they instead start developing jump and chocobos. I can't imagine how terrible and disjointed it will look with the way the server handles character positioning now. I just don't get it. 

     

    I don't understand what you'd want them to do instead. The server (and engine) related issues are very deeply integrated and 'fixing' them will be a massive, lengthy project no matter how many code-monkeys they have at their disposal. It is true that we can not enjoy the new features with the servers being the way they are, but completely ignoring them isn't going to make the server repairs come any faster. It has to be done simultaneously, otherwise it will take way too long to complete. Either way, I absolutely agree with you about it taking another year to be complete. I'd predict the server fixes to come within six to nine months from now.
    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
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