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Is this the game for me after all?
Svarcanum
Member UncommonPosts: 425
Hey fanbois, fangirls and forum browsers!
I've been devouring everything related to GW2 these last few months and I've been repeatedly positively surprised by the design choices presented. I love the DE system (since I vehemently dislike quest based levelling). I love the WvWvW concept, it's truly spot on. I love how dungeons have a story mode and a exploration mode. I love how combat is more action based and focused on positioning and fast tactical decisions rather on a dull rotation that can be perfected fighting a target dummy.
However, I've grown more uncertain lately. Will there be a pve endgame in GW2? I know there won't be raids, but will there be any way of slowly continue progression in the game after you've hit 80? They've stated there's no grinding and since there's no monthly fee I guess we can't exactly expect content updates. Or am I wrong here? Granted, I really like pvp. Both casual and hardcore. But I also *need* a pve endgame. Goals to fight toward and camraderie within a tight knit guild, doing challenging things together. Will GW2 offer me this?
To me it feels like GW2 caters toward the casual *and* hardcore PvP:ers, but only the casual PvE:er. I am at the moment a casual PvP:er and a hardcore PvE:er (though that's been reversed before, but I get too stressed out doing arenas in wow at a high level nowadays).
I know Arenanet seems to only release info about features when they're implemented and working, so maybe there's something going on behind the scenes that we don't know of. But I'm asking you, oh knowledgable community, is GW2 the game for me after all?
Svarcanum
Comments
Dungeons with multiple ways to go through them + random events happening within them are supposed to be the "classical" endgame PVE. Keep in mind that these things are also supposed to be hard, as in, hard enough to be very difficult to PUG. No idea about the updates, doubt anyone does because even ANet themselves have said that they'll be catering it to community's desires... but one can assume they'll almost definitely follow the GW1 style of multiple expansions in some shape or form.
I'm sure they'll have a bunch of dungeons at endgame. But they've said you won't need to grind them to get gear. Does that mean you run them once completely (maybe that takes three or more sessions) and then you're done. Seems to me it's hard to keep people occupied for very long then. Same with DEs. You do the hard ones and get the gear from them (since you aren't supposed to grin I assume you get the gear you want just by completing them). Then what? Colin said he didn't want GW2 to be WoW:s competition rather something you play on the side. Well, that works. But not for me, I'm afraid. I'd love for GW2 to be my primary game not an on-the-side fling. I know it may sounds weird to some, but I want there to be some measure of grinding at endgame in GW2. A reason to do content more than once, simply. Is the "there's no grinding in GW2" a buzzword (phrase?) or will there actually be no grinding in GW2 and thus no progression reason to do content more than once?
Nobody can make up mind FOR YOU. You pretty much know all about GW2. Give it a shot!!!
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
No, you actually get Karma points from DEs so you're not forced to farm specific ones, just do whichever you like because they give you the same currency you then use to buy stuff you want. They didn't make WAR's mistake by making specific DEs give specific rewards.
Each dungeon has multiple paths to go through. So you might try completing all the paths. I'm sure taking down all the dragons in the open world might take some time as well.
My theme song.
Ah, I missed the Karma point system. Then there will be a reason to redo content after all. That's good to hear. Should keep me occupied for a bit, hehe.
And, yes, noone can make up my mind for me. But I was looking for things I had overlooked that could get me more phsyched again. There are way too many things in GW2 that I like to *not* try it, as it is. I just want to keep my personal hype level at a comfortably high and steady level!
In response to what you are talking about OP the answer is no. No GW2 fan is actually going to tell you this, since pve raid is an evil word to a lot of people who are attracted to this game.
Your summation that this game was made for casual pve'rs and hardcore pvp'rs is correct from the info I have seen before. Yes yes I saw the dragon video GW2 fans and I saw they said 40 people open world. Great now what is the reward I get for killing that dragon?
What makes me want to even bother possibly spending an hour and multiple deaths on that dragon? <-----That is what ArenaNET needs to answer for me and I doubt we will know for atleast another 6 months.
There will definitely be content updates. They've said the area called "The Crystal Desert" won't be available on day one. I believe it will be part of a major patch but that's just me, I can't be sure.
This is not a game.
Just go watch vids on youtube and wait for the moment the giant chest drops, then look at what the players get from it, then you have your answer.
This is not a game.
I'd imagine some kind of crazy reward in Karma and money + some loot from that huge chest. Other than that, you got to participate in what is probably a culmination of a long DE chain. As ANet said before, Dragons appearing out of nowhere like in the demo is not the way they'll work in the final game because you'll actually have to get to them by chaining DEs.
I don't know, what did you expect as a reward?
For any dedicated PVE player i doubt there will be enough content to keep a strong team together for more than a month or 2 after hitting cap. We may see some content patches here and there but nothing on the scale of say wow or eq2 patches. Most if not all major content updates will come from expansion packs. I foresee this game turning into most peoples 2nd mmo or their PVP mmo. imo
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Fun? Challenge? Personal satistfaction? You see my friend ANet is getting rid of the carrot on the stick that all sub-based MMO's use to make sure players give them money. The endgame for PvE is NOT GEAR. There is NO progression system. Its about having fun and working together to achieve a common goal.
For many, the whole concept of an MMORPG is not to socialze and have fun, but to "beat" the game and get the best rewards. That is not the game ANet wants to create.
You want to defeat that dragon because you will get the acheivement and maybe a title and personal glory for taking down such a hard monster. Why must there be a shiny at the end to have fun? Why must people kill this dragon over and over and over to get their whole sets of shinies? These are the questions you need to ask yourself before you expect a response from ANet.
For a guy who's name is Aion telling me beating a dragon is all about the fun makes me want to laugh. Aion has two very big dragons right this minute and noone goes near them.
How all of a sudden people just expect mmo players to not care about gear progression after close to 15 years of doing it just amazes me honestly. I'll put money on it without an incentive noone is going to touch these dynamic events. They sure as hell did not in Rift unless you wave a carrot in front of their faces.
GW2 and Rift have more in common then you guys like to admit because it is what we edumacated people like to call a "datapoint". This means you can use it as a reference point to see what works and what does not work when it comes to the word "dynamic" and just removing the carrot does not work. Counting on the kindness and courtesy of people on the internet to get something done is not happening.
You guys have hardcore pvp'rs and casual pve'rs, but trying to move in on WoW/EQ/Rift/SWToR market when it comes to raiding and comparing the two is not happening.
The name is Aionix and I have been using it since Asheron's Call. So nice try. And I was trying to be nice and explain that video games are meant to be fun and a form of entertainment, not second jobs. The DE's is the only way to level via PvE, so uless you level doing only PvP your goign to do them. There are no quest hubs, thats the reason RIFT's dyanmic content failed, because people just wanted to hit endgame as fast as possible and didn't bother to do the harder group based things.
But I see your very opinionated and no one can change your mind. Goodday.
It is hard to change my mind when I see people hammering Rift daily because the Rifts are not "rewarding" enough for them to want to do. Yes GW2 events are supposed to be more varied since that is how your "questing" model is setup, but why do I want to do them.
Ok guys we just wasted 2 hours clearing out some dynamic events with no rewards. Lets move on to some more events with no rewards. I do no think ArenaNET will possibly consider this. There has got to be some kind of reward for time invested.
^ That is what I have been waiting for the past 4 months since GW2 even popped on my radar. What is my reward for investing huge amounts of time into these events. I can answer that for every single game coming out that has been out WoW/WAR/Aion/EQ2/RiFT
True but this system works for B2P not P2P. That is why ANET is clever to do away with monthly sub fee. Of all the MMOS i have played a serious lack of end game usually turns out to be bad news. Fallen Earth is a perfect example. players used to say same thing hey why not just play for fun? and majority wiould scoff and say 'who are you to define what is fun for us'? which is also true. tabula Rasa another MMo where players just left after hitting level cap because there was nothing to do. Even FFXIV is introducing instanced dungeons for players to keep themselves busy.
Fun is very subjective and differ from player to player. But the truth is that a monthly sub fee based MMO just doesn't work without good raiding or PVP and the purpose of both is to acquire gear and shiny weapons. A lot of MMO have tried in past to do away with it but players just can not justify paying 15 bucks a month for just rolling alts or twiddling their thumbs at level cap.
Ohh I see. My bad. Yes there is rewards, the Karma Point system. And it is equal among DE's and dungeons. You use your points gathered for the item sets you will want. The main difference is the stats on the item sets are not progression based, but aesthetics based. Meaning all end game gear is similiar in stats, but differs in looks. There is also many loot drops from these DE's. Don't worry, they didn't forgo all gear, they just are changing the reason to obtain it.
The challenging game content will come in the form the of Explorable Mode Dungeons, which are supposed to be quite difficult (think Thunderhead Keep in GW1) but are designed for parties of 5 players. Each dungeon has three different available paths in Explorable Mode as well as random encounters based upon the Dynamic Event system.
There will be no instanced raids, with massive encounters being placed in the Open World for them to be TRULY massive (i.e. hundreds of people instead of a dozen or two).
Secondly, ArenaNet has said that there WILL be free content patches as well as paid expansion and MAYBE DLC if the community asks for it.
Finally, even if there is no everlasting gear treadmill (which is what you want i think?) there is still no reason not to buy the game as you don't have to pay a subscription. If you get bored of the content you can leave the game and come back for free once new content patches are released, many people did this with GW1.
So you are one of those purplechasers instead of actually completing the content for the challenge of it?
I did all the cataclysm Tier 11 content (finished in march, with most of hardmodes kills) and after that I stopped playing. Gear Grinds is for simple minded individuals.
A decent minded player will know that he does not care about gear, only needs the gear to complete the content, here is where team organization and player coordination(not to say skill, becuz...pve) comes into play.
The more of it you have, less time it is going to take you to complete said content, and after the content no amount of gear will make the player keep playing the game just for the sake of it, unless you wanna get your character gear ready for possible future content. I had my full set for my mage in wow, gave my spot and started pvping, at which point i got bored and quit. But I was Tier 12 ready 4 months before the tier 12 actually came out, at which point I would have unsubbed if it werent for the PvP.
All this to say, that for a true raider, the gear means nothing, its the challenge. Gear is only there to hold your sub
"I am not a robot. I am a unicorn."
As far as progression goes for PVE there will be no vertical progression but they will have horizontal progression in game (this is based off what the developers have said and from what they did in GW2). What that means is once you get your max level stat items, you will not be going and grinding more dungeons to get better gear like in WoW. Instead you will be going and finding gear for the way it looks, so if you really like a dungeon set because of the cool look you might have to run it a few times to get all the pieces. If you like gear progression AKA WoW gear grind there is tons of games out there for you to play, GW2 will not be one of them though!
As for what to do when you hit max level, the same as in any MMO! Run dungeons with your friends that you want that cool looking gear from, find DEs that you have not seen before, play the AH or the mini-games inside the city, PVP in structured or WvWvW, craft items, and last but not least level a Alt. I know saying that is taboo on this site, but really when you think about it how many people do you know that plays WoW only has 1 maxed level character. I know when I played I had 4 max level characters and a bunch of low level ranging from 30 to 60 across more than a few servers. In fact I do not know one person that played WoW for more than a short time that only had one character! (the only thing GW2 does not have that most traditional MMOs have is raiding for gear)
As far as updates go the developers have already said they will be adding new DEs into the game consistently after launch (maybe a few free dungeons here and there I believe there were 3 dungeons adding into GW1 during updates), other than that I expect paid expansions with new dungeons and eventually new lands to explore.
In this video they talk about gear progression: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHKrzOFv7sw
Your absolutely correct. And this is why ANet has a major advantage. To each his own I say, but personally I am finished with the old-school way of player MMO's....to progress for the sole means of getting new gear and showing it off. I enjoy the social and group aspects of these game way more than the personal rewards.
You cannot say that with any certainty! There are people that have played GW1 for thousands of hours; in fact I am one of them! So if people can do that in GW1 then I do not see why they could not do it in GW2. That might be the only thing this game will be for you, but do not try and speak for most people that will play this game!
The only way this GW system works is the following and it has a flaw. ArenaNETS approach is a constantly changing world where my decision affects the world outside of my personnel story.
The idea goes that if I stop rats from demolishing a field that the vendor will be able to grow the goods to povide the product. Ok this is cool under the assumption I am online 24 hours a day. This also goes under the assumption there are no expansion or content actually added to the game.
Does this event reset after I finish it and someone else can come along and do the same event, but fail and now does that mean I can not get the item any longer? Am I phased out of that players reality where I see one thing when I talk to the vendor and he see's something!?!?!? Ok add this onto that equation.
If I see something else that he does not see. What keeps me from buying the product from the vendor I saved and just marking up the price and selling it to the guy who could not save the vendor!?!??!
What happens if they add more content? Now these are more dynamic events I have to keep track of. uhohhh another threat showed up to the vendor..now I have to watch that area of the map and also watch the new events...uhohh another content expansion..now more threats to the vendor + the new content + the newer content.
Are you guys starting to see where I might be getting confused because this how I process what that GW2 panel is telling me?
For PVE don't forget about the personal story element. They haven't talked about it a lot lately but I'm looking forward to mixing it in with all the other stuff to do.
Dude everyone sees the same vendor; there is no phasing in GW2 DEs. If the rabbits eats all the watermelon and the vendor cannot sale them, then no one can buy them. And if you really start freaking out about that you need help!
The point is that the world is going to be always in motion, always changing; some people actually think this is a good idea. If that is too much for you, then go find a world that is static. Because if anyone just stands in one area to make sure that nothing happens to that vendor, they are absolutely insane! The point is to just wonder around the world and see what is happening and join in on the fun not to set there in town and worry about my precious vendor that sells melons!
Just wanted to add DEs do not cause permanent changes just persistent changes to the world. So eventually after you save the vendor a new DE will start where more rabbits will be born and then if they are not kept in check they will eat all the melons again, hence the cycle will repeat. This is why ANet has said they will be patching in new DEs ones the game launches and slowing down the rate in which the cycles progress, so people will not just see the same DEs over and over again.