A. For all that you could know the raid leader you're talking about could have your exact same life, MMO gamers come in all shapes and sizes.
B. The 5% VIP is hilarious, a payment costumer is a payment costumer.
To the OP, grow a pair already, it's your own fault for being a guild you don't like, join a guild where you don't have to schedule your life around it.
Don't raid, or raid in a guild that you actually like, or whatever, but don't blame others for your decisions.
There is no such thing as a spur of the moment raid mechanic lol.
My complaint is more about the game mechanics than the people.
Look passed the college kid insult that i've editted out and focus on the entire post.
Raiding requires you to schedule your life around a game, not the people.
Go ahead find a casual "raid guild" and see if you still arent required to log in at a certain time to raid lol.
What a silly troll post...
You're really bad at this forum thing, everyone that disagrees with you gets instantly labeled.
There is such a thing as guild where you're not required to raid, if you end up being able to you can, but you don't have to, i know because i've been in extreme hardcore guilds, ran guilds, and been in relaxed guilds.
They all raided and they were all extremely different from each other.
I guess your complain is that in Rift there's only raiding to do in endgame?
If that's so, that, yet again, is not the guilds fault, it's the game, and you could have read about the game and decided that endgame was not for you, it's not like Rift developers hided the fact that endgame would be raiding.
I didn't touch rift because i knew for a fact it was a wow clone and what the end game would be, if a game is designed to catter to raiders and you can't/don't like raiding...why play it?
Im complaining about the game dude...
You guys focused on the no-life college kid remark instead of what the post was about.
Basically, Bait and switch. A game going from being this wonderful experience where i progress the way i like and how i want to being a job that requires schedules.
Its not about the people running the schedules, because if the mechanic didnt require them to then they wouldnt be doing it.
But that's exactly what i remarked, Rift didn't bait and switch anyone, from alpha everyone that read about the game knew that end game would be raiding.
It's like buying WAR, playing it and complaining about hating PvP.
Raiding is the only mechanic in Rift that requires people to schedule their lives around the game.
The entire time u play even in massive groups in the world during invasions.. hell you can clear expert and raid rifts sur of the moment in a pug... Even if people knew the game had raiding just by the gameplay experience alone its a bait and switch mechanic.
The game goes from this to that once u hit a certain point. and once I hit that point i lose interest. Sadly the game has nothing to offer me when it comes to character advancement if i choose not to raid. Also RIFT was only an example other games are like this.
Your post-cap activities are confined to essentially two categories, Raid or PVP. It's been this way for fifteen years now.
My only suggestion would be seeking out a game where the leveling content is pretty repeatable, lots of new classes and builds and options to encourage alt-itis as much as possible.
well lets hope one day we get a game with more options. I hear Guild wars 2 is that game but honestly after being let down time after time by new mmos im pulling a wait and see on that game.
Your post-cap activities are confined to essentially two categories, Raid or PVP. It's been this way for fifteen years now.
This is my problem with most MMO's. There is nothing but rep/gear grinding at max level. I hit max level with my toons and I reroll an alt and start over again. I really don't see a fix for this though.
Maybe the games should start out with raiding, perhaps in the open world instead of instances. It could be one way to level your character instead of limiting it to an end-game gear grind.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
This is my problem with most MMO's. There is nothing but rep/gear grinding at max level. I hit max level with my toons and I reroll an alt and start over again. I really don't see a fix for this though.
Makes you wonder why everyone races to the cap, doesn't it?
There's a couple of sort-of solutions. Alternate advancement schemes (we've seen a few), encouraging Collector mindsets (achievement badges etc.). But honestly the Holy Grail of How to Keep Capped and Bored Players Paying still remains largely unanswered outside of the Two Classics.
Ah, I forgot to mention my not-for-everyone third solution: People. Sometimes roleplaying, sometimes a guild full of buddies, a good gaming partner--I've always been more tolerant of Gear Grind when I had fun people to do it with. And yes, that often leads to raiding hat doesn't feel just "grindy", if you're there to have a good time with friends instead of grind out another gear piece, it's not a chore at all.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
This is my problem with most MMO's. There is nothing but rep/gear grinding at max level. I hit max level with my toons and I reroll an alt and start over again. I really don't see a fix for this though.
Makes you wonder why everyone races to the cap, doesn't it?
There's a couple of sort-of solutions. Alternate advancement schemes (we've seen a few), encouraging Collector mindsets (achievement badges etc.). But honestly the Holy Grail of How to Keep Capped and Bored Players Paying still remains largely unanswered outside of the Two Classics.
You essentially need to add new content without having to develop it. Either you have some type of procedural AI generating mash ups (I don't think the technology is quite there yet, or if it will even be any good) or you give players the tools to generate their own content. It seems like everyone is okay with the current system despite all their complaining though, so there's no real incentive for devs to push the envelop forward.
You essentially need to add new content without having to develop it. Either you have some type of procedural AI generating mash ups (I don't think the technology is quite there yet, or if it will even be any good) or you give players the tools to generate their own content. It seems like everyone is okay with the current system despite all their complaining though, so there's no real incentive for devs to push the envelop forward.
Oh, I wouldn't go that far. We've got player-generated content in several games (CoX for example).
The only problem I really see is that we haven't seen player-generated content available in games at launch; it usually appears years down the road, an effort to keep subs up in an aging game.
(And honestly, PGC tends to suck pretty hard, most wanna-be developers aren't nearly as good as they want to believe. Just a few gems amongst the gravel.)
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
you dont have to develop it in Live. you can get it on PTR, tweak it for balance and what not, and then go onto live.
Nope, players won't ever get access to a Dev server. Security nightmare of the first order.
It would be fun to get your content vetted and released to into "real" content though. "I made that!" "Dude, I hate that dungeon."
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Luckily for me, I'm only raiding once a week at most. It's optional and only provides extra gear that gives a temporary boost on a long cooldown. It's nice to have, especially for PvP, but you don't "need" it. The rest of the week is filled with heroic instances which can be done in party, not in raid, so a lot more PUG friendly. Other than that, dailies, gold grind/quest. I certainly don't want to have to log in at from this to that time every day of the week. It's easier to incorporate that into a real life than what you're describing. I'd be done too if it came to that. Wife and kids don't mix too well with gaming as a second job.
Waiting for Guild Wars 2, and maybe SWTOR until that time...
Your post-cap activities are confined to essentially two categories, Raid or PVP. It's been this way for fifteen years now.
My only suggestion would be seeking out a game where the leveling content is pretty repeatable, lots of new classes and builds and options to encourage alt-itis as much as possible.
well lets hope one day we get a game with more options. I hear Guild wars 2 is that game but honestly after being let down time after time by new mmos im pulling a wait and see on that game.
I encourage a healthy skepticism when it comes to games, but yeah GW2 might be your game.
The first 4 minutes or so of this video might interest you.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Let's use WOW as an example. I LOVED playing the game when I was at the part of the game where you can level, do quests, collect pets, etc... but once I made it to end game and joined a raiding guild (made up of real life friends), shite hit the fan.
In order to keep up with "end game", this is what I needed to do:
1. Raid Monday - Thursday from 7:30 - 11:30 each night. This was considered an raiding guild for people with jobs/family.
2. I needed to do dailies in order to get my enchants needed to survive raids.
3. I needed to go fishing and cook food for raiding (mage I played)
4. I needed to make sure my DPS was top notch since there were 10 other mages begging to get into the raids daily.
5. I needed to chane play styles and cater to the "build of the week".
6. I needed to depend on others to log in on time so we could get stuff done
7. I needed to listen to friends who leveled for months together turn into bickering enemies.
Raiding turned into another job. Once I found out my wife was preggo's and I realized that I couldn't dedicate my entire life to continue playing a game, I quit. I LOVED playing before I got to the raiding aspect. Once It turned into a necessary job, I had to abandon ship.
Also, It would be awesome if I can get "end game" items in other ways than raiding. Why can't I start a LOOOONNGGG and time consuming quest to get the same items?? Blizz stated that raiding gives you the epic items as a reward for completed the hard content. I think that completed a long and tedious quest can be just as "hard" as running the SAME exact dungeon over and over and over and over again until your eyes bleed.
This is why GW2 is definitely on my radar. I want to explore and adventure, not clock into another job with a time card.
Let's use WOW as an example. I LOVED playing the game when I was at the part of the game where you can level, do quests, collect pets, etc... but once I made it to end game and joined a raiding guild (made up of real life friends), shite hit the fan.
In order to keep up with "end game", this is what I needed to do:
1. Raid Monday - Thursday from 7:30 - 11:30 each night. This was considered an raiding guild for people with jobs/family.
2. I needed to do dailies in order to get my enchants needed to survive raids.
3. I needed to go fishing and cook food for raiding (mage I played)
4. I needed to make sure my DPS was top notch since there were 10 other mages begging to get into the raids daily.
5. I needed to chane play styles and cater to the "build of the week".
6. I needed to depend on others to log in on time so we could get stuff done
7. I needed to listen to friends who leveled for months together turn into bickering enemies.
Raiding turned into another job. Once I found out my wife was preggo's and I realized that I couldn't dedicate my entire life to continue playing a game, I quit. I LOVED playing before I got to the raiding aspect. Once It turned into a necessary job, I had to abandon ship.
Also, It would be awesome if I can get "end game" items in other ways than raiding. Why can't I start a LOOOONNGGG and time consuming quest to get the same items?? Blizz stated that raiding gives you the epic items as a reward for completed the hard content. I think that completed a long and tedious quest can be just as "hard" as running the SAME exact dungeon over and over and over and over again until your eyes bleed.
This is why GW2 is definitely on my radar. I want to explore and adventure, not clock into another job with a time card.
This is where I dont understand your beef with raiding.
You only need the gear (and why you say the only way to progress your character is with that gear I dont really know) is to get better gear for more and harder raids.
So, if you dont like raiding, and DONT raid cant you continue to collect pets/achievments and do more quests lvl and alt and keep playing the game?
Or that gear is REALLY necessary for stuff you dont want to do?
i hate raids as soon as i hit max lvl im out of the game in a few days.
sure i join a raid and after we finished it some people are like `WOOOOW lets go AgaiNNN` or `NOO the super uber epic fantastic shield did not drop` and they want to go again and im like wtf i dont want to see this raid ever again ive done it.
it is probaly becouse raids in every single game are so damn easy to finish i want to play a game that is hard i dont want to play a raid where a player is able to ask the healer to heal him while the healer answers him saying he was watching tv. the guy needed health and the guy watching television should have been dead and becouse of that our whole raid group should have been dead or running away.
i hate raids as soon as i hit max lvl im out of the game in a few days.
sure i join a raid and after we finished it some people are like `WOOOOW lets go AgaiNNN` or `NOO the super uber epic fantastic shield did not drop` and they want to go again and im like wtf i dont want to see this raid ever again ive done it.
it is probaly becouse raids in every single game are so damn easy to finish i want to play a game that is hard i dont want to play a raid where a player is able to ask the healer to heal him while the healer answers him saying he was watching tv. the guy needed health and the guy watching television should have been dead and becouse of that our whole raid group should have been dead or running away.
because that guy you hate so much actually is the majority and gamers actually love raiding? you can be a rebel and wear make-up but that wont make you cool enough to have mmo's designed for you.
turns out the no-life college kid one-upped you here, buddy.
I don't hate him, Its not his fault his life hasent started yet and he has no responsibility yet.
If i offended you because your a virgin, no life college kid that can spend 80% of his day living in a mmo i apologize.
But you do realize about 5% of the mmo community raids right? so why would they be catered to?
I bite.
Sorry, but your stats have no basis in reality.
For example, I mostly raided with adults. Most of my raiding pals were over 30 and had kids, work and other hobbies. We managed to raid about 2-3 times a week and cleared most of the content in various games. All it takes is finding people who are prepared to set time aside for a hobby. If you don't like raiding, you probably should do something else. We enjoyed the social and group challenge. It was fun and it did not feel forced, but then again most of us did not care about the loot, but just wanted to clear the content.
The problem with your type of people is trying to blame others to your shortcomings. You assume that there is something wrong with people who enjoy raiding and therefore they must also fit to your stereotypical and very narrow defintion of the world because clearly you as an adult have it all figured out. Perhaps you should go and look yourself in the mirror because I only see one ass here.
There is nothing wrong disliking raiding or PvP...or chess or women's volleyball, but you cannot expect everyone OR even most to feel the same.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Let's use WOW as an example. I LOVED playing the game when I was at the part of the game where you can level, do quests, collect pets, etc... but once I made it to end game and joined a raiding guild (made up of real life friends), shite hit the fan.
In order to keep up with "end game", this is what I needed to do:
1. Raid Monday - Thursday from 7:30 - 11:30 each night. This was considered an raiding guild for people with jobs/family.
2. I needed to do dailies in order to get my enchants needed to survive raids.
3. I needed to go fishing and cook food for raiding (mage I played)
4. I needed to make sure my DPS was top notch since there were 10 other mages begging to get into the raids daily.
5. I needed to chane play styles and cater to the "build of the week".
6. I needed to depend on others to log in on time so we could get stuff done
7. I needed to listen to friends who leveled for months together turn into bickering enemies.
Raiding turned into another job. Once I found out my wife was preggo's and I realized that I couldn't dedicate my entire life to continue playing a game, I quit. I LOVED playing before I got to the raiding aspect. Once It turned into a necessary job, I had to abandon ship.
Also, It would be awesome if I can get "end game" items in other ways than raiding. Why can't I start a LOOOONNGGG and time consuming quest to get the same items?? Blizz stated that raiding gives you the epic items as a reward for completed the hard content. I think that completed a long and tedious quest can be just as "hard" as running the SAME exact dungeon over and over and over and over again until your eyes bleed.
This is why GW2 is definitely on my radar. I want to explore and adventure, not clock into another job with a time card.
This was my experience with raiding as well. It's like a darn job. It got to the point where it wasn't even remotely fun.....just work. When a game stops being fun for me.....I quit playing it.
I love group dungeons, but I wouldn't miss large group raiding if it didn't exist. However....I do want other people to have the things that THEY enjoy in games too, so I'm not wishing it away, just saying that it's not "my cup of tea."
I too think GW2 is going to be more "my style" of game....from all I know about it anyway.
They really enjoy a game, questing is great, pvp, dungeons, crafting. This entire time your doing what you want to do and how you want to do it.
You group when you want, you play solo or in a small group and advance your character when you want to.
That is until you hit this wall and are required to raid if you want to continue to progress.
Then you have this kid telling you that you need to log in M-Fri 6-11...
I mean wtf happened?
Why do our games do shit like that? I get that these are massively multiplayer games but why the hell am i required to log in at a set time like this is a job?
For me once the game gets like this I lose almost all interest.
A good example of this was RIFT. I loved that game, the questing, classes, Dungeons and even the crafting. Then i get to this point where i need to raid or basically gtfo of the game. So i join a guild that raids three days a week and after about a month I find myself hiding on steam playing GRID, Borderlands and Streetfighter lol!!!!!
Does this happen to anyone else? Is this common? if so why the hell do developers but mechanics in the game that force "Schedules" on people?
I swear guys if it wasn't for A-nets promise of no raiding endgame I think Rift would have been my last try at the genre. I want to play how i want to play and not feel like i hit this wall where im required to turn a game into a job just to progress my character.
Editted because one line typed in a rant was being focused on and used to derail the thread.
Sadly...yes. It happens in most MMO's these days. I figure mainly because it takes little effort t reach max lvl and/or their isn't near the amount of content or quickness of expansions released as in early times to keep the players busy.....or a combo of the two. EQ has TONS of expansions. Sure, you can reach max lvl, but there is so much content you can almost never have to raid if you don't want to. Sigh....forever lost are the days of true exploration, meaningful questing, good community, continuous expansions to keep you busy I feel.
Guys, there's a big difference between how a game CAN be played and how you CHOOSE to play.
I see people complaining about raiding becoming like a job, hating the schedules and all that - Why not stop? Why let it get to the point where you are?
You don't NEED to have the best gear, you want to have the best gear. In wanting to have the best gear you put up with seemingly unreasonable things.
Just about anything can be harmful to you if you overdo it. Aspirin, for example, will kill you if you take too many. MMOs and video games are no different. Some of you people 'overdo' MMOs and then complain like the game has somehow wronged you.
As for 'schedules' - I think MMOs need them. What makes MMOs fun is the more massive scale activities. At least instanced games you can make your schedule. Imagine games where you have to camp mobs or something like EVE where your space can be attacked during Australian timezone if your enemies want.
Guys, there's a big difference between how a game CAN be played and how you CHOOSE to play.
I see people complaining about raiding becoming like a job, hating the schedules and all that - Why not stop? Why let it get to the point where you are?
You don't NEED to have the best gear, you want to have the best gear. In wanting to have the best gear you put up with seemingly unreasonable things.
Just about anything can be harmful to you if you overdo it. Aspirin, for example, will kill you if you take too many. MMOs and video games are no different. Some of you people 'overdo' MMOs and then complain like the game has somehow wronged you.
As for 'schedules' - I think MMOs need them. What makes MMOs fun is the more massive scale activities. At least instanced games you can make your schedule. Imagine games where you have to camp mobs or something like EVE where your space can be attacked during Australian timezone if your enemies want.
It's not ABOUT "overdoing" anything. It's about the only choice for endgame is raiding. It's not like most games give you a lot of other choice or even ANY other choice.....what....grinding dailies is an option, I guess....a bad option, but an option no less.
The anger toward the game, at least for me, is that it's lazy of the developer to just expect people (everyone) to endlessly repeat dungeons over and over and over and over and over....I mean COME ON! It's mind numbingly boring AND resembles a job.....one I'm not getting paid to do. Or if the "loot" is considered pay....it's a meager existence when you're rolling for it.
Raiding just sucks because it's an ONLY option. Like I said....I wouldn't wish it away from the people that enjoy it, but I think there should be some other options.
Guys, there's a big difference between how a game CAN be played and how you CHOOSE to play.
I see people complaining about raiding becoming like a job, hating the schedules and all that - Why not stop? Why let it get to the point where you are?
You don't NEED to have the best gear, you want to have the best gear. In wanting to have the best gear you put up with seemingly unreasonable things.
Just about anything can be harmful to you if you overdo it. Aspirin, for example, will kill you if you take too many. MMOs and video games are no different. Some of you people 'overdo' MMOs and then complain like the game has somehow wronged you.
As for 'schedules' - I think MMOs need them. What makes MMOs fun is the more massive scale activities. At least instanced games you can make your schedule. Imagine games where you have to camp mobs or something like EVE where your space can be attacked during Australian timezone if your enemies want.
It's not ABOUT "overdoing" anything. It's about the only choice for endgame is raiding. It's not like most games give you a lot of other choice or even ANY other choice.....what....grinding dailies is an option, I guess....a bad option, but an option no less.
The anger toward the game, at least for me, is that it's lazy of the developer to just expect people (everyone) to endlessly repeat dungeons over and over and over and over and over....I mean COME ON! It's mind numbingly boring AND resembles a job.....one I'm not getting paid to do. Or if the "loot" is considered pay....it's a meager existence when you're rolling for it.
Raiding just sucks because it's an ONLY option. Like I said....I wouldn't wish it away from the people that enjoy it, but I think there should be some other options.
i think that what the OP is trying to say is that every time a game comes out and you hit the cap.....there are no more things to do but raiding.
Well ... you could start a new character, if you dont like to progress the current one any further.
And at least in Vanguard, there are a ***load of quests at maxlevel that you still can do. In fact should do if you want to be better prepared for raiding.
Not to mention TONs of content you havent seen yet because you level much too fast in Vanguard to even remotely stand a chance to see all that content on the way up.
Oh, and you can do your diplomacy. And crafting. And harvesting, if you havent done that already.
Not to mention you can simply chat with people. In any game.
I know of other games, such as GW, that you can also get titles and archievements ... GW doesnt even have raiding, though, as far as I know.
A. For all that you could know the raid leader you're talking about could have your exact same life, MMO gamers come in all shapes and sizes.
B. The 5% VIP is hilarious, a payment costumer is a payment costumer.
To the OP, grow a pair already, it's your own fault for being a guild you don't like, join a guild where you don't have to schedule your life around it.
Don't raid, or raid in a guild that you actually like, or whatever, but don't blame others for your decisions.
There is no such thing as a spur of the moment raid mechanic lol.
My complaint is more about the game mechanics than the people.
Look passed the college kid insult that i've editted out and focus on the entire post.
Raiding requires you to schedule your life around a game, not the people.
Go ahead find a casual "raid guild" and see if you still arent required to log in at a certain time to raid lol.
What a silly troll post...
Raiding is like any other hobby and anyone with a hobby knows the amount of effort and time it takes in your life.
People's interest can range from spending their time and money collecting marbles to condition and training for your favorite recreational sport. Nothing is really free and anything you choose to be good at requires time, patients, and practice. After that's said and done people choose to be with those selective groups of elitest or your casual volleyball players(as an example). You get these same groups in any MMO regardless of where their progression stands in the game.
Millions of players world wide many come and go for various reasons. Our experience is good or bad and at times folks can relate to them.
Comments
Raiding is the only mechanic in Rift that requires people to schedule their lives around the game.
The entire time u play even in massive groups in the world during invasions.. hell you can clear expert and raid rifts sur of the moment in a pug... Even if people knew the game had raiding just by the gameplay experience alone its a bait and switch mechanic.
The game goes from this to that once u hit a certain point. and once I hit that point i lose interest. Sadly the game has nothing to offer me when it comes to character advancement if i choose not to raid. Also RIFT was only an example other games are like this.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
well lets hope one day we get a game with more options. I hear Guild wars 2 is that game but honestly after being let down time after time by new mmos im pulling a wait and see on that game.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
This is my problem with most MMO's. There is nothing but rep/gear grinding at max level. I hit max level with my toons and I reroll an alt and start over again. I really don't see a fix for this though.
Maybe the games should start out with raiding, perhaps in the open world instead of instances. It could be one way to level your character instead of limiting it to an end-game gear grind.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Makes you wonder why everyone races to the cap, doesn't it?
There's a couple of sort-of solutions. Alternate advancement schemes (we've seen a few), encouraging Collector mindsets (achievement badges etc.). But honestly the Holy Grail of How to Keep Capped and Bored Players Paying still remains largely unanswered outside of the Two Classics.
Ah, I forgot to mention my not-for-everyone third solution: People. Sometimes roleplaying, sometimes a guild full of buddies, a good gaming partner--I've always been more tolerant of Gear Grind when I had fun people to do it with. And yes, that often leads to raiding hat doesn't feel just "grindy", if you're there to have a good time with friends instead of grind out another gear piece, it's not a chore at all.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
You essentially need to add new content without having to develop it. Either you have some type of procedural AI generating mash ups (I don't think the technology is quite there yet, or if it will even be any good) or you give players the tools to generate their own content. It seems like everyone is okay with the current system despite all their complaining though, so there's no real incentive for devs to push the envelop forward.
Oh, I wouldn't go that far. We've got player-generated content in several games (CoX for example).
The only problem I really see is that we haven't seen player-generated content available in games at launch; it usually appears years down the road, an effort to keep subs up in an aging game.
(And honestly, PGC tends to suck pretty hard, most wanna-be developers aren't nearly as good as they want to believe. Just a few gems amongst the gravel.)
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I like to run a Raid a few times but I do get board with it. And so wish the MMO market would come up with somthing new and freash.
Nope, players won't ever get access to a Dev server. Security nightmare of the first order.
It would be fun to get your content vetted and released to into "real" content though. "I made that!" "Dude, I hate that dungeon."
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Luckily for me, I'm only raiding once a week at most. It's optional and only provides extra gear that gives a temporary boost on a long cooldown. It's nice to have, especially for PvP, but you don't "need" it. The rest of the week is filled with heroic instances which can be done in party, not in raid, so a lot more PUG friendly. Other than that, dailies, gold grind/quest. I certainly don't want to have to log in at from this to that time every day of the week. It's easier to incorporate that into a real life than what you're describing. I'd be done too if it came to that. Wife and kids don't mix too well with gaming as a second job.
Waiting for Guild Wars 2, and maybe SWTOR until that time...
I encourage a healthy skepticism when it comes to games, but yeah GW2 might be your game.
The first 4 minutes or so of this video might interest you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4xQITFhYAU
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I am 100% in agreement with the OP.
Let's use WOW as an example. I LOVED playing the game when I was at the part of the game where you can level, do quests, collect pets, etc... but once I made it to end game and joined a raiding guild (made up of real life friends), shite hit the fan.
In order to keep up with "end game", this is what I needed to do:
1. Raid Monday - Thursday from 7:30 - 11:30 each night. This was considered an raiding guild for people with jobs/family.
2. I needed to do dailies in order to get my enchants needed to survive raids.
3. I needed to go fishing and cook food for raiding (mage I played)
4. I needed to make sure my DPS was top notch since there were 10 other mages begging to get into the raids daily.
5. I needed to chane play styles and cater to the "build of the week".
6. I needed to depend on others to log in on time so we could get stuff done
7. I needed to listen to friends who leveled for months together turn into bickering enemies.
Raiding turned into another job. Once I found out my wife was preggo's and I realized that I couldn't dedicate my entire life to continue playing a game, I quit. I LOVED playing before I got to the raiding aspect. Once It turned into a necessary job, I had to abandon ship.
Also, It would be awesome if I can get "end game" items in other ways than raiding. Why can't I start a LOOOONNGGG and time consuming quest to get the same items?? Blizz stated that raiding gives you the epic items as a reward for completed the hard content. I think that completed a long and tedious quest can be just as "hard" as running the SAME exact dungeon over and over and over and over again until your eyes bleed.
This is why GW2 is definitely on my radar. I want to explore and adventure, not clock into another job with a time card.
This is where I dont understand your beef with raiding.
You only need the gear (and why you say the only way to progress your character is with that gear I dont really know) is to get better gear for more and harder raids.
So, if you dont like raiding, and DONT raid cant you continue to collect pets/achievments and do more quests lvl and alt and keep playing the game?
Or that gear is REALLY necessary for stuff you dont want to do?
"I am not a robot. I am a unicorn."
Totally agree with the OP.
Raiding is for Fanbois and collectors.
Besides, killing the same "boss" over and over is unrealistic. If it's dead, it should stay dead!!!!
Besides, there is nothing epic about an item that hundreds of people got..... at least after some time.
i hate raids as soon as i hit max lvl im out of the game in a few days.
sure i join a raid and after we finished it some people are like `WOOOOW lets go AgaiNNN` or `NOO the super uber epic fantastic shield did not drop` and they want to go again and im like wtf i dont want to see this raid ever again ive done it.
it is probaly becouse raids in every single game are so damn easy to finish i want to play a game that is hard i dont want to play a raid where a player is able to ask the healer to heal him while the healer answers him saying he was watching tv. the guy needed health and the guy watching television should have been dead and becouse of that our whole raid group should have been dead or running away.
Wanna rep farm firelands with me?
"I am not a robot. I am a unicorn."
I bite.
Sorry, but your stats have no basis in reality.
For example, I mostly raided with adults. Most of my raiding pals were over 30 and had kids, work and other hobbies. We managed to raid about 2-3 times a week and cleared most of the content in various games. All it takes is finding people who are prepared to set time aside for a hobby. If you don't like raiding, you probably should do something else. We enjoyed the social and group challenge. It was fun and it did not feel forced, but then again most of us did not care about the loot, but just wanted to clear the content.
The problem with your type of people is trying to blame others to your shortcomings. You assume that there is something wrong with people who enjoy raiding and therefore they must also fit to your stereotypical and very narrow defintion of the world because clearly you as an adult have it all figured out. Perhaps you should go and look yourself in the mirror because I only see one ass here.
There is nothing wrong disliking raiding or PvP...or chess or women's volleyball, but you cannot expect everyone OR even most to feel the same.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
This was my experience with raiding as well. It's like a darn job. It got to the point where it wasn't even remotely fun.....just work. When a game stops being fun for me.....I quit playing it.
I love group dungeons, but I wouldn't miss large group raiding if it didn't exist. However....I do want other people to have the things that THEY enjoy in games too, so I'm not wishing it away, just saying that it's not "my cup of tea."
I too think GW2 is going to be more "my style" of game....from all I know about it anyway.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Sadly...yes. It happens in most MMO's these days. I figure mainly because it takes little effort t reach max lvl and/or their isn't near the amount of content or quickness of expansions released as in early times to keep the players busy.....or a combo of the two. EQ has TONS of expansions. Sure, you can reach max lvl, but there is so much content you can almost never have to raid if you don't want to. Sigh....forever lost are the days of true exploration, meaningful questing, good community, continuous expansions to keep you busy I feel.
Guys, there's a big difference between how a game CAN be played and how you CHOOSE to play.
I see people complaining about raiding becoming like a job, hating the schedules and all that - Why not stop? Why let it get to the point where you are?
You don't NEED to have the best gear, you want to have the best gear. In wanting to have the best gear you put up with seemingly unreasonable things.
Just about anything can be harmful to you if you overdo it. Aspirin, for example, will kill you if you take too many. MMOs and video games are no different. Some of you people 'overdo' MMOs and then complain like the game has somehow wronged you.
As for 'schedules' - I think MMOs need them. What makes MMOs fun is the more massive scale activities. At least instanced games you can make your schedule. Imagine games where you have to camp mobs or something like EVE where your space can be attacked during Australian timezone if your enemies want.
Err ... nobody forces you to join a top raiding guild.
There are plenty of casual raiding guilds around as well.
Just look for those instead.
Also, raiding is just bossfights. The idea is to make the whole thing a level more challenging and create a real big group effort.
It's not ABOUT "overdoing" anything. It's about the only choice for endgame is raiding. It's not like most games give you a lot of other choice or even ANY other choice.....what....grinding dailies is an option, I guess....a bad option, but an option no less.
The anger toward the game, at least for me, is that it's lazy of the developer to just expect people (everyone) to endlessly repeat dungeons over and over and over and over and over....I mean COME ON! It's mind numbingly boring AND resembles a job.....one I'm not getting paid to do. Or if the "loot" is considered pay....it's a meager existence when you're rolling for it.
Raiding just sucks because it's an ONLY option. Like I said....I wouldn't wish it away from the people that enjoy it, but I think there should be some other options.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Options other than raiding such as?
Well ... you could start a new character, if you dont like to progress the current one any further.
And at least in Vanguard, there are a ***load of quests at maxlevel that you still can do. In fact should do if you want to be better prepared for raiding.
Not to mention TONs of content you havent seen yet because you level much too fast in Vanguard to even remotely stand a chance to see all that content on the way up.
Oh, and you can do your diplomacy. And crafting. And harvesting, if you havent done that already.
Not to mention you can simply chat with people. In any game.
I know of other games, such as GW, that you can also get titles and archievements ... GW doesnt even have raiding, though, as far as I know.
Raiding is like any other hobby and anyone with a hobby knows the amount of effort and time it takes in your life.
People's interest can range from spending their time and money collecting marbles to condition and training for your favorite recreational sport. Nothing is really free and anything you choose to be good at requires time, patients, and practice. After that's said and done people choose to be with those selective groups of elitest or your casual volleyball players(as an example). You get these same groups in any MMO regardless of where their progression stands in the game.
Millions of players world wide many come and go for various reasons. Our experience is good or bad and at times folks can relate to them.