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Game will "Flop" harder than RIFT did...

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Comments

  • grunt187grunt187 Member CommonPosts: 956

    Originally posted by TheStarheart

    he's just trolling and had no intention of taking anyone elses opinions seriously. prob best to just let it be.

    Ding*ding*ding we have a winner. image

    The following statement is false
    The previous statement is true

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004

    Originally posted by niceguy3978

    Originally posted by Phry


    Originally posted by Wickedjelly


    Originally posted by spookydom


    Originally posted by lizardbones

     




    Originally posted by Sebali

    not sure how to take this considering rift didnt flop









    That's what I was going to say. I'm sure the guys at Trion fighting their way through the tide of money to get to their offices would agree.

     

    image. Yes op. Are facts something that happen to other people in your world? Rifts didn't flop. Lot of song and dance going on about Tor, much more than there was with Rifts. The Bioboys will get good box sales. It's up to them after that if they want to keep their players or not.

     Going to agree with the rest here.  This topic is pretty fucking stupid considering Rift didn't flop.

    given that Rift managed to gain over 2 million paying players, i'd say thats a success, if SW;TOR does as well as Rift does, that would mean it was an outstanding success.. and just the kind of numbers that EA/Bioware are hoping to gain... whether they do it.. we'll have to wait and see...  but.. one of the things Rift had in its favour was that it was a good solid launch.. something that would help Bioware if they manage to achieve the same thing.... for what happens when that doesnt happen.. look no further than SOE's DCUO and Squares FFXIV...  i won't mention STO in the same category.. because i don't believe that Bioware could possibly achieve that level of fail without trying extremely hard.. its just not possible image

    I would really like to see a link to something, anything, indicating that.  They said at E3 that they were approaching 1 million "customers" i.e. purchasers of the game.  they gained another million in the last month and a half?

    they havent published anything official as far as im aware, so the only thing i have is anecdotal, and .. im not entirely convinced they have that many either.. but.. giving them the benefit of the doubt..  at least until some evidence is found to the contrary.

     image

  • CyclopsSlayerCyclopsSlayer Member UncommonPosts: 532

    I was hoping for something new, something to capture the sandbox SW feel.

    The latest TOR SDCC videos, E3 before that, all have just driven home to myself and my guild/clan mates that SW:TOR is just isn't for us.

    I wish it all the best, the SW universe has long long been one of my favorites, but I see dire things coming. More and more SW:TOR is looking like the same old tired game with blaster cannons instead of 2H swords and polearms, Mandoloran armor instead of Chainmail, Force instead of Mana, etc...

    And well, the Voice overs instead of Quest text, and cut scenes galore, just fail to thrill me.

    Best of luck

  • dirtyd77dirtyd77 Member UncommonPosts: 383

    How many more of these post must we endure?  Let's just wait until the game launches and see what happens.  

  • EliandalEliandal Member Posts: 796

    Originally posted by Nazgol

     Sandbox MMOS are a niche market, if there was a large market for it, there would be more.

       This needs to be repeated over and over on these forums, since it never really does sink in.

  • AgileeAgilee Member Posts: 46

    Originally posted by Roguewiz

    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    By looking @ all the hype around a WoW-copy with a StarWars skin, it seems that SWTOR is getting SEVERAL times the "hype" that RIFT did.

    Review:

    -RIFT was supposed to kill WoW

    -RIFT was also a WoW-copy (please move away from WoW-clone, it sounds immature, clone =/= copy)

    -RIFT had the same UI, inventory, and skill system of WoW (same thing SWTOR is doing)

    -RIFT flopped REALLY hard, so hard in fact that they viewed their sub number drop rate as a "failure in the making" and have started an aggressive freetrial, discount && "veteran return" plan.

     

     

    I've been around the MMO-block for quite awhile now trying, testing, and playing almost every single MMO out there (even the ones that I KNEW what to expect before trying them, but still tried so i was 100% sure). Yet, time after time AFTER TIME I see the same community over-hype of the "NEXT BIG THING" only to have it blow up similar to AION, RIFT, etc etc etc.

    I'm only worried at the backlash that SWTOR's failure will bring. It's one of the largest fully developed MMO's of all time. Yet, they didn't feel that breaking from the "industry standard" of WoW's lowest common denominator was a "safe" investment, and that spelled their doom since the inception of SWTOR. Will we see a decrease in investing towards MMOs in general? Will we see more garbage "F2P" fad increases?

     

    Or, could we possibly see a shift in the market towards triple 'A' sandbox development & implementation? Obviously I'm hoping for the latter, but I feel it'll be somewhere in the middle of less investing towards MMOs & a larger interest in sandbox MMOs. Granted, that's not a horrible thing to have happen, but it's obviously not the ideal.

     

     

    Thoughts?

     1st:  You've played and/or tested every MMO on the market?  A time-frame may be more appropriate.  As an example:  If WoW was your first MMO, then you've probable NOT played: Ultima Online, Everquest, Everquest 2, Dark Age of Camelot, Earth and Beyond, Eve, City of Heroes, ect ect.

    2nd:  EVERY MMO has a similar inventory, skill, and UI system.  These are staples of the industry.  Why?  Because they work.

    4rd.  Rift is alive.  It hasn't failed, and hasn't killed WoW.  Failure to kill WoW is NOT a failure for the MMO.

    I've been playing MMOs since 97.  I am looking for the next Everquest or WoW.  Not in design, but in the spirit of catching my attention.

    Lol i like "ford" better than third.

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856

    wow isnt number one according to xfire !the title would go to lol(league of legend)

    i was so surprised i was like wtf it is a dota game cant really be considered an mmo

    but there you have it it is still the most popular on xfire

    so does this mean the issue at hand is the pvpve,the fairness of play etc?

    could be so saying swtor is doomed is gona be premature for a long while yet(since the release isnt even close to date lol

    one thing is sure swtor will get a run for its money if they try to release at same time as gw2!

    gw1 gave a scare to blizzard for a long while before they announced too early the futur release of gw2!

  • ZarynterkZarynterk Member UncommonPosts: 398

    Originally posted by Agilee

    Originally posted by Roguewiz

    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    By looking @ all the hype around a WoW-copy with a StarWars skin, it seems that SWTOR is getting SEVERAL times the "hype" that RIFT did.

    Review:

    -RIFT was supposed to kill WoW

    -RIFT was also a WoW-copy (please move away from WoW-clone, it sounds immature, clone =/= copy)

    -RIFT had the same UI, inventory, and skill system of WoW (same thing SWTOR is doing)

    -RIFT flopped REALLY hard, so hard in fact that they viewed their sub number drop rate as a "failure in the making" and have started an aggressive freetrial, discount && "veteran return" plan.

     

     

    I've been around the MMO-block for quite awhile now trying, testing, and playing almost every single MMO out there (even the ones that I KNEW what to expect before trying them, but still tried so i was 100% sure). Yet, time after time AFTER TIME I see the same community over-hype of the "NEXT BIG THING" only to have it blow up similar to AION, RIFT, etc etc etc.

    I'm only worried at the backlash that SWTOR's failure will bring. It's one of the largest fully developed MMO's of all time. Yet, they didn't feel that breaking from the "industry standard" of WoW's lowest common denominator was a "safe" investment, and that spelled their doom since the inception of SWTOR. Will we see a decrease in investing towards MMOs in general? Will we see more garbage "F2P" fad increases?

     

    Or, could we possibly see a shift in the market towards triple 'A' sandbox development & implementation? Obviously I'm hoping for the latter, but I feel it'll be somewhere in the middle of less investing towards MMOs & a larger interest in sandbox MMOs. Granted, that's not a horrible thing to have happen, but it's obviously not the ideal.

     

     

    Thoughts?

     1st:  You've played and/or tested every MMO on the market?  A time-frame may be more appropriate.  As an example:  If WoW was your first MMO, then you've probable NOT played: Ultima Online, Everquest, Everquest 2, Dark Age of Camelot, Earth and Beyond, Eve, City of Heroes, ect ect.

    2nd:  EVERY MMO has a similar inventory, skill, and UI system.  These are staples of the industry.  Why?  Because they work.

    4rd.  Rift is alive.  It hasn't failed, and hasn't killed WoW.  Failure to kill WoW is NOT a failure for the MMO.

    I've been playing MMOs since 97.  I am looking for the next Everquest or WoW.  Not in design, but in the spirit of catching my attention.

    Lol i like "ford" better than third.

     

    ROFL thx you jerk, I spit my soda all over my desk.

    image

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004

    Originally posted by CyclopsSlay

    I was hoping for something new, something to capture the sandbox SW feel.

    The latest TOR SDCC videos, E3 before that, all have just driven home to myself and my guild/clan mates that SW:TOR is just isn't for us.

    I wish it all the best, the SW universe has long long been one of my favorites, but I see dire things coming. More and more SW:TOR is looking like the same old tired game with blaster cannons instead of 2H swords and polearms, Mandoloran armor instead of Chainmail, Force instead of Mana, etc...

    And well, the Voice overs instead of Quest text, and cut scenes galore, just fail to thrill me.

    Best of luck

    how many cutscenes can you endure in a 2 hour gaming session.. where just about every npc convo seems to be one, with vote for joe options thrown in ... image

  • spookydomspookydom Member UncommonPosts: 1,782

    Originally posted by Zarynterk

    Originally posted by Agilee


    Originally posted by Roguewiz


    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    By looking @ all the hype around a WoW-copy with a StarWars skin, it seems that SWTOR is getting SEVERAL times the "hype" that RIFT did.

    Review:

    -RIFT was supposed to kill WoW

    -RIFT was also a WoW-copy (please move away from WoW-clone, it sounds immature, clone =/= copy)

    -RIFT had the same UI, inventory, and skill system of WoW (same thing SWTOR is doing)

    -RIFT flopped REALLY hard, so hard in fact that they viewed their sub number drop rate as a "failure in the making" and have started an aggressive freetrial, discount && "veteran return" plan.

     

     

    I've been around the MMO-block for quite awhile now trying, testing, and playing almost every single MMO out there (even the ones that I KNEW what to expect before trying them, but still tried so i was 100% sure). Yet, time after time AFTER TIME I see the same community over-hype of the "NEXT BIG THING" only to have it blow up similar to AION, RIFT, etc etc etc.

    I'm only worried at the backlash that SWTOR's failure will bring. It's one of the largest fully developed MMO's of all time. Yet, they didn't feel that breaking from the "industry standard" of WoW's lowest common denominator was a "safe" investment, and that spelled their doom since the inception of SWTOR. Will we see a decrease in investing towards MMOs in general? Will we see more garbage "F2P" fad increases?

     

    Or, could we possibly see a shift in the market towards triple 'A' sandbox development & implementation? Obviously I'm hoping for the latter, but I feel it'll be somewhere in the middle of less investing towards MMOs & a larger interest in sandbox MMOs. Granted, that's not a horrible thing to have happen, but it's obviously not the ideal.

     

     

    Thoughts?

     1st:  You've played and/or tested every MMO on the market?  A time-frame may be more appropriate.  As an example:  If WoW was your first MMO, then you've probable NOT played: Ultima Online, Everquest, Everquest 2, Dark Age of Camelot, Earth and Beyond, Eve, City of Heroes, ect ect.

    2nd:  EVERY MMO has a similar inventory, skill, and UI system.  These are staples of the industry.  Why?  Because they work.

    4rd.  Rift is alive.  It hasn't failed, and hasn't killed WoW.  Failure to kill WoW is NOT a failure for the MMO.

    I've been playing MMOs since 97.  I am looking for the next Everquest or WoW.  Not in design, but in the spirit of catching my attention.

    Lol i like "ford" better than third.

     

    ROFL thx you jerk, I spit my soda all over my desk.

    Same but with tea. Lol.

  • AvanahAvanah Member RarePosts: 1,521

    <---Still waiting for the New Ultima Online 3D world Sandbox MMO....

     

     

    /wishful thinking

     

    I tried Rift...got to level 28....then sat there and thought: "This is WoW and Warhammer Online mixed together" and promptly un-installed.

    But that's just me. :)

    "My Fantasy is having two men at once...

    One Cooking and One Cleaning!"

    ---------------------------

    "A good man can make you feel sexy,

    strong and able to take on the whole world...

    oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."





  • DrannyDranny Member UncommonPosts: 279

    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    By looking @ all the hype around a WoW-copy with a StarWars skin, it seems that SWTOR is getting SEVERAL times the "hype" that RIFT did.

    Review:

    -RIFT was supposed to kill WoW

    -RIFT was also a WoW-copy (please move away from WoW-clone, it sounds immature, clone =/= copy)

    -RIFT had the same UI, inventory, and skill system of WoW (same thing SWTOR is doing)

    -RIFT flopped REALLY hard, so hard in fact that they viewed their sub number drop rate as a "failure in the making" and have started an aggressive freetrial, discount && "veteran return" plan.

     

     

    I've been around the MMO-block for quite awhile now trying, testing, and playing almost every single MMO out there (even the ones that I KNEW what to expect before trying them, but still tried so i was 100% sure). Yet, time after time AFTER TIME I see the same community over-hype of the "NEXT BIG THING" only to have it blow up similar to AION, RIFT, etc etc etc.

    I'm only worried at the backlash that SWTOR's failure will bring. It's one of the largest fully developed MMO's of all time. Yet, they didn't feel that breaking from the "industry standard" of WoW's lowest common denominator was a "safe" investment, and that spelled their doom since the inception of SWTOR. Will we see a decrease in investing towards MMOs in general? Will we see more garbage "F2P" fad increases?

     

    Or, could we possibly see a shift in the market towards triple 'A' sandbox development & implementation? Obviously I'm hoping for the latter, but I feel it'll be somewhere in the middle of less investing towards MMOs & a larger interest in sandbox MMOs. Granted, that's not a horrible thing to have happen, but it's obviously not the ideal.

     

     

    Thoughts?

     When did Rift flop.?

  • rezailrezail Member Posts: 22

    hehe its topics like this that make me never want to say anything in posts. Guy has know idea what he is talking about. xD RIFT was amazingly sucessful and know one even really knew about it. It just came out of the wood work during closed beta. xD And to compare and IP that is 30+ years old with a idea that was thought up 5 years ago is funny as hell.  

    image

  • synnsynn Member UncommonPosts: 563

    what is your definition of flop? Rift may not be pulling in the numbers that WoW is but to be honest it'll be a long time before anyone dethrones blizzard. On the otherhand nothing is wrong with free trial, discounted game etc...wow did the same thing even when its subscriber base broke 1m. its pretty much standard in todays day and age  for MMOs to offer such things as that. Its also pretty silly that players keep saying "wow clones" as though wow was an original idea :p

    back on the topic of sw:tor....i think the game will be fine. it'll probably pull starwars fans, gamers tired of  their current mmo, wouldn't be surprised to see wow sub drop atleast for a little while while gamers decide to give this game a try. Also, Bioware has its own little fanbase that will try the game to decide if they like it or not. It's up to bioware to release a polished game rather then doing a quick release and letting down players.

  • SioBabbleSioBabble Member Posts: 2,803

    Originally posted by Celcius

    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    By looking @ all the hype around a WoW-copy with a StarWars skin, it seems that SWTOR is getting SEVERAL times the "hype" that RIFT did.

    Review:

    -RIFT was supposed to kill WoW

    -RIFT was also a WoW-copy (please move away from WoW-clone, it sounds immature, clone =/= copy)

    -RIFT had the same UI, inventory, and skill system of WoW (same thing SWTOR is doing)

    -RIFT flopped REALLY hard, so hard in fact that they viewed their sub number drop rate as a "failure in the making" and have started an aggressive freetrial, discount && "veteran return" plan.

     

     

    I've been around the MMO-block for quite awhile now trying, testing, and playing almost every single MMO out there (even the ones that I KNEW what to expect before trying them, but still tried so i was 100% sure). Yet, time after time AFTER TIME I see the same community over-hype of the "NEXT BIG THING" only to have it blow up similar to AION, RIFT, etc etc etc.

    I'm only worried at the backlash that SWTOR's failure will bring. It's one of the largest fully developed MMO's of all time. Yet, they didn't feel that breaking from the "industry standard" of WoW's lowest common denominator was a "safe" investment, and that spelled their doom since the inception of SWTOR. Will we see a decrease in investing towards MMOs in general? Will we see more garbage "F2P" fad increases?

     

    Or, could we possibly see a shift in the market towards triple 'A' sandbox development & implementation? Obviously I'm hoping for the latter, but I feel it'll be somewhere in the middle of less investing towards MMOs & a larger interest in sandbox MMOs. Granted, that's not a horrible thing to have happen, but it's obviously not the ideal.

     

     

    Thoughts?

    Rift did not flop. It was a success. You do not need 10 million subs to be a good game. 

    Being a good game is not the measure of success, I'm afraid.  10 million subs is.  That's the way this industry thinks nowadays.  Never mind that WoW is in many ways a fluke. 

    The only success that matters, ultimately, is the number of subs.  That's the yardstick.

    By that standard, Rift utterly failed, as everything else has.  Unless SWToR gets millions of subscribers, it too will be perceived as a flop.

    This sucks, it has nothing to do with the inherent quality of the game itself.

    CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.

    Once a denizen of Ahazi

  • CelciusCelcius Member RarePosts: 1,610

    Originally posted by SioBabble

    Originally posted by Celcius


    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    By looking @ all the hype around a WoW-copy with a StarWars skin, it seems that SWTOR is getting SEVERAL times the "hype" that RIFT did.

    Review:

    -RIFT was supposed to kill WoW

    -RIFT was also a WoW-copy (please move away from WoW-clone, it sounds immature, clone =/= copy)

    -RIFT had the same UI, inventory, and skill system of WoW (same thing SWTOR is doing)

    -RIFT flopped REALLY hard, so hard in fact that they viewed their sub number drop rate as a "failure in the making" and have started an aggressive freetrial, discount && "veteran return" plan.

     

     

    I've been around the MMO-block for quite awhile now trying, testing, and playing almost every single MMO out there (even the ones that I KNEW what to expect before trying them, but still tried so i was 100% sure). Yet, time after time AFTER TIME I see the same community over-hype of the "NEXT BIG THING" only to have it blow up similar to AION, RIFT, etc etc etc.

    I'm only worried at the backlash that SWTOR's failure will bring. It's one of the largest fully developed MMO's of all time. Yet, they didn't feel that breaking from the "industry standard" of WoW's lowest common denominator was a "safe" investment, and that spelled their doom since the inception of SWTOR. Will we see a decrease in investing towards MMOs in general? Will we see more garbage "F2P" fad increases?

     

    Or, could we possibly see a shift in the market towards triple 'A' sandbox development & implementation? Obviously I'm hoping for the latter, but I feel it'll be somewhere in the middle of less investing towards MMOs & a larger interest in sandbox MMOs. Granted, that's not a horrible thing to have happen, but it's obviously not the ideal.

     

     

    Thoughts?

    Rift did not flop. It was a success. You do not need 10 million subs to be a good game. 

    Being a good game is not the measure of success, I'm afraid.  10 million subs is.  That's the way this industry thinks nowadays.  Never mind that WoW is in many ways a fluke. 

    The only success that matters, ultimately, is the number of subs.  That's the yardstick.

    By that standard, Rift utterly failed, as everything else has.  Unless SWToR gets millions of subscribers, it too will be perceived as a flop.

    This sucks, it has nothing to do with the inherent quality of the game itself.

    Rift did not fail because it is a financial success, that is the definition of success in this industry. Hell, that is success in any industry. Game development is a business and companies are out to earn money, which Trion is doing, thus making it a success. I don't know where you got your information (off the top of your head) but I have not seen anything to indicate Trion is not making money from their game. A good game to you is not a good game to everyone, and the same applies to everyone else. It does not matter if you do not like a game; if people play it and the company is earning money, it is a success. Saying that a game is good based on your pre-concieved notion that every MMORPG needs 10 million subs to be successful is an opinion, not a fact.

  • TalinTalin Member Posts: 824

    Dissapointing Troll thread. Enough said.

  • ChilliesauceChilliesauce Member Posts: 559

    Originally posted by SioBabble

    Originally posted by Celcius


    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    By looking @ all the hype around a WoW-copy with a StarWars skin, it seems that SWTOR is getting SEVERAL times the "hype" that RIFT did.

    Review:

    -RIFT was supposed to kill WoW

    -RIFT was also a WoW-copy (please move away from WoW-clone, it sounds immature, clone =/= copy)

    -RIFT had the same UI, inventory, and skill system of WoW (same thing SWTOR is doing)

    -RIFT flopped REALLY hard, so hard in fact that they viewed their sub number drop rate as a "failure in the making" and have started an aggressive freetrial, discount && "veteran return" plan.

     

     

    I've been around the MMO-block for quite awhile now trying, testing, and playing almost every single MMO out there (even the ones that I KNEW what to expect before trying them, but still tried so i was 100% sure). Yet, time after time AFTER TIME I see the same community over-hype of the "NEXT BIG THING" only to have it blow up similar to AION, RIFT, etc etc etc.

    I'm only worried at the backlash that SWTOR's failure will bring. It's one of the largest fully developed MMO's of all time. Yet, they didn't feel that breaking from the "industry standard" of WoW's lowest common denominator was a "safe" investment, and that spelled their doom since the inception of SWTOR. Will we see a decrease in investing towards MMOs in general? Will we see more garbage "F2P" fad increases?

     

    Or, could we possibly see a shift in the market towards triple 'A' sandbox development & implementation? Obviously I'm hoping for the latter, but I feel it'll be somewhere in the middle of less investing towards MMOs & a larger interest in sandbox MMOs. Granted, that's not a horrible thing to have happen, but it's obviously not the ideal.

     

     

    Thoughts?

    Rift did not flop. It was a success. You do not need 10 million subs to be a good game. 

    Being a good game is not the measure of success, I'm afraid.  10 million subs is.  That's the way this industry thinks nowadays.  Never mind that WoW is in many ways a fluke. 

    The only success that matters, ultimately, is the number of subs.  That's the yardstick.

    By that standard, Rift utterly failed, as everything else has.  Unless SWToR gets millions of subscribers, it too will be perceived as a flop.

    This sucks, it has nothing to do with the inherent quality of the game itself.

    I hardly doubt that and not even once i saw any statement by any company/critics or otherwise that 'hey so and so MMO failed to get 10 million player so it is a flop'. Quite silly statement if you ask me.

    If i go by your logic every MMO is a failure in recent time except for WOW. Don't try to pass your own opinion as industries standard unless you got some data to prove it or you are some insider in MMO industry.

    image

  • synnsynn Member UncommonPosts: 563

    Originally posted by SioBabble

    Originally posted by Celcius


    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    By looking @ all the hype around a WoW-copy with a StarWars skin, it seems that SWTOR is getting SEVERAL times the "hype" that RIFT did.

    Review:

    -RIFT was supposed to kill WoW

    -RIFT was also a WoW-copy (please move away from WoW-clone, it sounds immature, clone =/= copy)

    -RIFT had the same UI, inventory, and skill system of WoW (same thing SWTOR is doing)

    -RIFT flopped REALLY hard, so hard in fact that they viewed their sub number drop rate as a "failure in the making" and have started an aggressive freetrial, discount && "veteran return" plan.

     

     

    I've been around the MMO-block for quite awhile now trying, testing, and playing almost every single MMO out there (even the ones that I KNEW what to expect before trying them, but still tried so i was 100% sure). Yet, time after time AFTER TIME I see the same community over-hype of the "NEXT BIG THING" only to have it blow up similar to AION, RIFT, etc etc etc.

    I'm only worried at the backlash that SWTOR's failure will bring. It's one of the largest fully developed MMO's of all time. Yet, they didn't feel that breaking from the "industry standard" of WoW's lowest common denominator was a "safe" investment, and that spelled their doom since the inception of SWTOR. Will we see a decrease in investing towards MMOs in general? Will we see more garbage "F2P" fad increases?

     

    Or, could we possibly see a shift in the market towards triple 'A' sandbox development & implementation? Obviously I'm hoping for the latter, but I feel it'll be somewhere in the middle of less investing towards MMOs & a larger interest in sandbox MMOs. Granted, that's not a horrible thing to have happen, but it's obviously not the ideal.

     

     

    Thoughts?

    Rift did not flop. It was a success. You do not need 10 million subs to be a good game. 

    Being a good game is not the measure of success, I'm afraid.  10 million subs is.  That's the way this industry thinks nowadays.  Never mind that WoW is in many ways a fluke. 

    The only success that matters, ultimately, is the number of subs.  That's the yardstick.

    By that standard, Rift utterly failed, as everything else has.  Unless SWToR gets millions of subscribers, it too will be perceived as a flop.

    This sucks, it has nothing to do with the inherent quality of the game itself.

     that's like saying most if not all the people that come to these forums have failed in life because we don't have as much money as bill gates does :p  sure, rift may not be making the kind of money blizzard is making every month in subs but no other MMO in the market is. i think i read an article in one of those pc gamers mags that was saying a something like 250k active subscribers makes an MMO successful. I'll try and look look it up and post a link when i get home from work.

  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,597

    Originally posted by Chilliesauce

    Dear OP,Rift is not a flop, not even close. So this whole topic is just false and innacurate.

    or unintentionally accurate.  In that SWTOR will flop in exactly the way Rift did(n't).

    Yes, I was there when the fanbois were talking up Rift as going to have "north of 5 million subs".  Sure, it was dumb, and I seriously doubt the devs were projecting those sort of numbers.  But they still had a great launch and retention has been pretty decent.  Definitely a short term success for the moment.

  • SioBabbleSioBabble Member Posts: 2,803

    Originally posted by synn

    Originally posted by SioBabble


    Originally posted by Celcius


    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    By looking @ all the hype around a WoW-copy with a StarWars skin, it seems that SWTOR is getting SEVERAL times the "hype" that RIFT did.

    Review:

    -RIFT was supposed to kill WoW

    -RIFT was also a WoW-copy (please move away from WoW-clone, it sounds immature, clone =/= copy)

    -RIFT had the same UI, inventory, and skill system of WoW (same thing SWTOR is doing)

    -RIFT flopped REALLY hard, so hard in fact that they viewed their sub number drop rate as a "failure in the making" and have started an aggressive freetrial, discount && "veteran return" plan.

     

     

    I've been around the MMO-block for quite awhile now trying, testing, and playing almost every single MMO out there (even the ones that I KNEW what to expect before trying them, but still tried so i was 100% sure). Yet, time after time AFTER TIME I see the same community over-hype of the "NEXT BIG THING" only to have it blow up similar to AION, RIFT, etc etc etc.

    I'm only worried at the backlash that SWTOR's failure will bring. It's one of the largest fully developed MMO's of all time. Yet, they didn't feel that breaking from the "industry standard" of WoW's lowest common denominator was a "safe" investment, and that spelled their doom since the inception of SWTOR. Will we see a decrease in investing towards MMOs in general? Will we see more garbage "F2P" fad increases?

     

    Or, could we possibly see a shift in the market towards triple 'A' sandbox development & implementation? Obviously I'm hoping for the latter, but I feel it'll be somewhere in the middle of less investing towards MMOs & a larger interest in sandbox MMOs. Granted, that's not a horrible thing to have happen, but it's obviously not the ideal.

     

     

    Thoughts?

    Rift did not flop. It was a success. You do not need 10 million subs to be a good game. 

    Being a good game is not the measure of success, I'm afraid.  10 million subs is.  That's the way this industry thinks nowadays.  Never mind that WoW is in many ways a fluke. 

    The only success that matters, ultimately, is the number of subs.  That's the yardstick.

    By that standard, Rift utterly failed, as everything else has.  Unless SWToR gets millions of subscribers, it too will be perceived as a flop.

    This sucks, it has nothing to do with the inherent quality of the game itself.

     that's like saying most if not all the people that come to these forums have failed in life because we don't have as much money as bill gates does :p  sure, rift may not be making the kind of money blizzard is making every month in subs but no other MMO in the market is. i think i read an article in one of those pc gamers mags that was saying a something like 250k active subscribers makes an MMO successful. I'll try and look look it up and post a link when i get home from work.

    The sad thing is, for any number of people out there, unless you're as wealthy as Bill Gates, you're a failure.  It's the only way they measure success.

    Just making a profit is not enough anymore, and hasn't been for the last 30 or so years.  Corporations shut down profitable divisions because they're not as profitable as others.

    This is a sick reality of this society we live in.  It needs to change, but it will take a massive "significant emotional event" for it to happen.

    CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.

    Once a denizen of Ahazi

  • ElidienElidien Member RarePosts: 1,401

    Anyone thinking that failure of SW:TOR will lead to more triple AAA sandbox titles does not understand investment and finance. If TOR fails, MMO developers will not look to make sandboxes or any game for that matter. They will take they money and run. A lot if riding on the success of TOR.

  • i_own_ui_own_u Member UncommonPosts: 314

    Ok big man, please buy yourself a nice first class plane ticket and fly down to Bioware Austin. PLEASE tell the 10+ year game developers down there that they are doing it all wrong. PLEASE explain to them how to make a MMO because they are obvously missing something.

    Oh and by the way, it is NOT a wow cone, NOT a wow copy. It is the standard of the MMO market today to create similar games because it has the nostalgic feel to it and it is not hard to learn a new interface (regarding the player of the game). SWTOR will play completly different than WoW. Plus there are full Voice Overs...Pretty sure WoW doesn't have anything close to that.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182

    The OP has all corners covered, he's played every MMO, he also uses the word flop the appropriate way ( we use it the wrong way). With this much proof how can we argue with him? We lose.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • XziledXziled Member Posts: 41

    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    By looking @ all the hype around a WoW-copy with a StarWars skin, it seems that SWTOR is getting SEVERAL times the "hype" that RIFT did.

    Review:

    -RIFT was supposed to kill WoW

    -RIFT was also a WoW-copy (please move away from WoW-clone, it sounds immature, clone =/= copy)

    -RIFT had the same UI, inventory, and skill system of WoW (same thing SWTOR is doing)

    -RIFT flopped REALLY hard, so hard in fact that they viewed their sub number drop rate as a "failure in the making" and have started an aggressive freetrial, discount && "veteran return" plan.

     

     

    I've been around the MMO-block for quite awhile now trying, testing, and playing almost every single MMO out there (even the ones that I KNEW what to expect before trying them, but still tried so i was 100% sure). Yet, time after time AFTER TIME I see the same community over-hype of the "NEXT BIG THING" only to have it blow up similar to AION, RIFT, etc etc etc.

    I'm only worried at the backlash that SWTOR's failure will bring. It's one of the largest fully developed MMO's of all time. Yet, they didn't feel that breaking from the "industry standard" of WoW's lowest common denominator was a "safe" investment, and that spelled their doom since the inception of SWTOR. Will we see a decrease in investing towards MMOs in general? Will we see more garbage "F2P" fad increases?

     

    Or, could we possibly see a shift in the market towards triple 'A' sandbox development & implementation? Obviously I'm hoping for the latter, but I feel it'll be somewhere in the middle of less investing towards MMOs & a larger interest in sandbox MMOs. Granted, that's not a horrible thing to have happen, but it's obviously not the ideal.

     

     

    Thoughts?

     WoW Fanboi in a troll skin?

This discussion has been closed.