These threads always crack me up. Especially the ones that claim a game isn't revolutionary or is too beholden to the trinity of classes(tank/healer/dps). Since the op felt it important that we all read his view , i now feel my thoughts on the matter are equally important.
1.) exactly what do you want to be revolutionary? The AI of mobs has natural limitations based on technology and/or cost.
2.) Quest vs sandbox? i prefer sandbox games myself, but the vast majority of sheeple seem to enjoy themepark games, so that's what succeeds. So, baaah I'll follow too. But those really are the only two alternatives and they've both been done before.
3.) Classes, in order for a game to be a worthwhile mmo grouping has to be in the game, the mechanics of the game have to encourage grouping. If it doesn't and you can solo all the way to max level, why play an mmo? Any number of single player rpgs would probably be better. So with that said for group worthy content you'll need someone that can heal. If you have someone healing it makes someone tanking needful. If every class or character in a skill based game, can do that then you're in a situation where no one needs to group. OR you end up with a game where everyone is dps, guess what that's called? That's right, a FPS now if you want to play a revolutionary MMOFPS by all means do so, but understand RPG and FPS are two different games.
Anyways, I like interfaces i am comfortable with. I like classes as opposed to skill based games which inevitably lead to everybody playing one of three uber builds. I like my mmorpgs to be group friendly, otherwise I'd just be waiting for the next installment of dragonage. And I like my rpgs to be rpgs not FPS.
HOLY CRAP.....that looks TERRBILE. FARRRRR too much WoW in that game for me. Seriously, watch that video! I've been following this game with a vague interest, but after watching that E3 video I compared it to random WoW-instance videos & realized how copied WoW has become.
Literally, look @ the stat system & inventory system of WoW not to mention the skill system of WoW then look @ SWTOR. SWTOR is, IN ZERO WAY, revolutionary. Worse than RIFT, 100% copy of WoW with a StarWars skin.
If you're looking for a true take on Star Wars SWTOR is not for you, but if you're looking for a Single Player game with COOP elements && you like WoW then SWTOR is for you!!
-Faded
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
I agree with the TC, and im still going to pre order and buy the game on my own terms.
its loosely the same reasons i have with any other games that certain audience members hype up to the moon and when you look at the videos it always seems to go through this route:
"well .... as long as its relatively different, ill enjoy it"
or
" lord....in before the second coming cult"
worse case being when the company themselves start touting words like "revolutionary, second coming, never before seen, innovative." is when.. at times i want to keep the pimp hand strong and show them there place (with my wallet)
thank god you won't be playing this game when it goes live. I for one will be enjoying the epic storylines that i can actually make choices in... unlike any MMO... Glad to see you and your e-peen will be off playing some different games and staying the hell away from my servers and forums.
Those are the exact thoughts that run through my head whenever I read a new thread designed purely to be inflammatory.
Choices doesn't mean a thing, unless the choice you make actually influence the WORLD you play in, and not just your own little storyline.
As someone pointed out in a post I read, which nailed it just right:
You beat this leader of the local Sith force, and feel proud about it. A little later, you realize that everyone are doing the same thing, in the same world.
It makes a bad storyline to do it this way. I know it takes a lot of effort to avoid this, but I honestly expected BioWare to pick up that same challenge, but they just rode along the old band wagon of horrible storylines, which has no logic to it whatsoever.
No... It doesn't make a bad storyline. It may affect your immersion to know that my Sith were defeated too, but that doesn't mean the tale actually being spun was poorly constructed. That just means you're in an MMO. It's not feasible in any massive online environment to have everything you do make a permanent, static change for all who come after you. Oh you killed the Sith Emperor already? Shoot, guess I'll never get to do that now.
No MMO is ever going to have what you just described. Ever.
Choices doesn't mean a thing, unless the choice you make actually influence the WORLD you play in, and not just your own little storyline.
As someone pointed out in a post I read, which nailed it just right:
You beat this leader of the local Sith force, and feel proud about it. A little later, you realize that everyone are doing the same thing, in the same world.
It makes a bad storyline to do it this way. I know it takes a lot of effort to avoid this, but I honestly expected BioWare to pick up that same challenge, but they just rode along the old band wagon of horrible storylines, which has no logic to it whatsoever.
It means something to me, because I happen to like stories and I happen to like the idea that I can participate in it and influence the story. While it would be nice to see it represented in the actual game world, it's enough that it affects the outcome of my story.
You got a whole array of single player games which beats the crap out of SWTOR as for storylines (Bethesda's games being excellent examples of this). My worry is that your choices, wont affect my choices. When this doesn't happen, it loses the MMO feel bigtime IMO.
In groups, if you win the roll your choice does affect others.
HOLY CRAP.....that looks TERRBILE. FARRRRR too much WoW in that game for me. Seriously, watch that video! I've been following this game with a vague interest, but after watching that E3 video I compared it to random WoW-instance videos & realized how copied WoW has become.
Literally, look @ the stat system & inventory system of WoW not to mention the skill system of WoW then look @ SWTOR. SWTOR is, IN ZERO WAY, revolutionary. Worse than RIFT, 100% copy of WoW with a StarWars skin.
If you're looking for a true take on Star Wars SWTOR is not for you, but if you're looking for a Single Player game with COOP elements && you like WoW then SWTOR is for you!!
-Faded
WOW looks alot like DAOC and EQ, they didn't invent the mmo. They just made one simple and accessible enough to hold the attention of ADD America.
In this video you see.. typical UI, typical mmorpg quests/ideas. The combat looks extremely boring.... What moves did he use... oh yah explosions and shoot a laser gun....
I see an mmo like rift and like wow and like all the rest that uses the same ui and ideas.
What makes this game different? The fact that its the star wars universe?
No, what makes this game different is the focus on story. Most MMORPG's today have forgotten about the "RPG" part, and don't really make the player feel emotionally attached to an underlying story. They aren't playing a role. They're just grinding mobs and grinding quests. What BioWare is known for, and what they seem to be introducing here, is immersive, emotional story. Adding the RPG back into MMORPG.
I mean come on... the graphics arent even good... have you seen guild wars 2 and battlefield 3.... get with the future...
That's a matter of opinion / taste, and of course you have a right to yours. Personally I love the graphics and animations, but respect those whose tastes are different.
Someone point out why they think this is good or revolutionary because the things that people havent see is what they tend to say is the good aspects. Its all a bunch of BS, this game looks worse then rift did and that game wasnt even that bad.
Get off the Star Wars band wagon and stop fan boying, this game analzyed from an MMO point is so typical and fail.... remember tihs when it launches.
Pot... kettle... some might suggest you get off of the hate wagon, and stop trolling...
BIG Edit* The main idea is... from what i have read and seen the general mmo industry wants to see different and better games... have you seen why people ripped apart RIFT... thats a unique storyline... not some ripped off book or movie. Bioware doesnt have to use as much creativity and the game looks typical. This site MMORPG also claims that the game is revolutionary... so I am helping people to not be misinformed.
Unless you work for a market research firm and can back that up with some valid statistical samples of the gaming population, I'd suggest not making such statements. Comments on these forums don't count as a valid statistical sample. The people who come to this site and post are a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the MMO gaming public, and also happen to be the most vocal, that's all. Don't confuse forum feedback with market direction.
I'd also point out that the genre continues to grow, with new games constantly popping up and new players trying the games... sure the veterans may be tired of existing game mechanics, but there are millions of gamers out there who have never tried an MMORPG, who might be attracted to the industry simply because this is a cool-looking (opinion) Star Wars game, and decide they love the game mechanics (never having experienced something similar before).
This was logically written and I understand your ideas and views.... I still stand that it looks typical and the only claim to change that has been the immerse storyline. Being that said Bioware is a company and like companies love more money thus leading to things becoming muddled. Its possible they show off the best zones with the best quest storylines. And I also dont think an "immerse storyline" is enough to call this revolutionary.
Fair enough
And I agree that BioWare isn't being revolutionary. I'd say this is only evolutionary. It's a new step, and only time will tell if it's a step in the right direction or not.
Fun > Revolutionary.. Many will love it and many will hate it but that is to be expected.
But there does seem to be a more concerted effort to actively derail any possible success for this game than for any other I've seen in quite a while. GW2 too.
Flip that on its head, an it's a positive sign for both games. If they're selling well enough for the doomcriers to line up against them, looking good for the success of both games.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
An important point is that the "theme park" game is what sells the most, and these guys are in this for the money, because for the really big games (we're not talking Kingdom of Loathing here) being a labor of love that you can make a living at has no appeal to the greedy investors out there who want some of that sweet sweet WoW profit .
Sandbox games just do not have the mass appeal, the huge audience, that the theme park games do. This is a sad reality of the basic economic underpinning of the MMO industry. WoW found the sweet spot...so everyone seeks to join Blizzard in that space.
So we're not going to see a revolution, especially in the current economic climate. We're going to see evolution.
"Revolution" is, as I indicated earlier, copy from a PowerPoint slide for the moneymen who back the games.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
An important point is that the "theme park" game is what sells the most, and these guys are in this for the money, because for the really big games (we're not talking Kingdom of Loathing here) being a labor of love that you can make a living at has no appeal to the greedy investors out there who want some of that sweet sweet WoW profit .
Sandbox games just do not have the mass apeal, the huge audience, that the theme park games do. This is a sad reality of the basic economic underpinning of the MMO industry. WoW found the sweet spot...so everyone seeks to join Blizzard in that space.
So we're not going to see a revolution, especially in the current economic climate. We're going to see evolution.
"Revolution" is, as I indicated earlier, copy from a PowerPoint slide for the moneymen who back the games.
@ OP This game birthed its development in 2005-2006. It is the first mmo by Bioware and at that time what they were thinking was taking the standard format and adding an amazing story element. They have to be successful with this so systems were moddled after what works in the industry at the time (WoW,etc.). Over the development cycle, they dont not have the time or money to try and change everything thats has been mapped out over the years, I'm sure many at Bioware would love to do something revolutionary but it is to big a risk with such a game being developed over the years, they would have to change so many things which would push the release date even further into the future (3 - 4 years). The game will be very good but who is going to fund a mmo revolution at this time, GW2 is doing things different and companies will wait and see if it works. Then maybe they will start to push the boundries a little bit. You have to ask yourself, what is going to sell because mmo projects are absudly expensive and complicated. Indie companies have to lead the way with revolutions, sadly it comes down to time and money as there are plenty of wonderful ideas out there.
As seen in Lord of the Rings and Age of Conan, there is a group of gamers that wants an in depth story and background. While World of Warcraft started by giving this in Vanilla WoW, it has lost it and as a result other games are picking up the slack. While SWTOR may not change the industry, it will help supply the rpg element to an industry that has forgotten the RP part of RPG.
I agree, While i voted no on the revolutionary bit of it. I am not playing this game based on that assumption. i am going to play this game for the story element i want an in depth story with in depth companions that i and my friends can enjoy together even if it is KOTOR 3 cause personally i was waiting for that game to come out but it never did.
as for the reason for the lower graphic this is for people who do not have high end computers and do not want to be limited by there graphics.
I cant wait to play and will preorder the game when i have the money.
Games I will be playing are: TES V, SWTOR, ME 3, TSW
And hell, just off the top of my head tanking is going to have a bit of a different mechanic on this game. Troopers and BHs are apparently going to tank from range. That in and of itself is original. That is a small interesting tweek. You're not going to see anything truly revolutionary until the hardware becomes so advanced that you're dealing with an "otherland" or Matrix type situation imho.
thank god you won't be playing this game when it goes live. I for one will be enjoying the epic storylines that i can actually make choices in... unlike any MMO... Glad to see you and your e-peen will be off playing some different games and staying the hell away from my servers and forums.
Those are the exact thoughts that run through my head whenever I read a new thread designed purely to be inflammatory.
Choices doesn't mean a thing, unless the choice you make actually influence the WORLD you play in, and not just your own little storyline.
As someone pointed out in a post I read, which nailed it just right:
You beat this leader of the local Sith force, and feel proud about it. A little later, you realize that everyone are doing the same thing, in the same world.
It makes a bad storyline to do it this way. I know it takes a lot of effort to avoid this, but I honestly expected BioWare to pick up that same challenge, but they just rode along the old band wagon of horrible storylines, which has no logic to it whatsoever.
No... It doesn't make a bad storyline. It may affect your immersion to know that my Sith were defeated too, but that doesn't mean the tale actually being spun was poorly constructed. That just means you're in an MMO. It's not feasible in any massive online environment to have everything you do make a permanent, static change for all who come after you. Oh you killed the Sith Emperor already? Shoot, guess I'll never get to do that now.
No MMO is ever going to have what you just described. Ever.
So basically you are saying: It can't be done because it's an MMO.
My problem is, that it has no MMO feel to it, when EXACTLY the same story I am presented with, is presented to everyone else. The choice I make in my storyline, means zip zero to their storyline. Don't you really understand the flat feeling you get when you understand that your storyline are just a copy of the guy who were here 5 mins before yourself?
EVE Online, if we disregard the abysmal mission system, is awesome at making storylines. The PLAYERS make the storylines, not by scripts or anything like that, but by actions. What I do, has an impact on other players. Market is 99% player driven, universe is 75% player owned, etc.
When I wake up and log on to a game like EVE, I am excited to find out what changed since I went to bed, do you get that feeling in SWTOR?
You don't have to make a game as "hardcore" as EVE to achieve this, you just need to step of the bloody bandwagon of repeating storylines, and TRY to create something new. At least....TRY, but they did not, I am very dissapointed. Nothing EPIC about a static world.
HOLY CRAP.....that looks TERRBILE. FARRRRR too much WoW in that game for me. Seriously, watch that video! I've been following this game with a vague interest, but after watching that E3 video I compared it to random WoW-instance videos & realized how copied WoW has become.
Literally, look @ the stat system & inventory system of WoW not to mention the skill system of WoW then look @ SWTOR. SWTOR is, IN ZERO WAY, revolutionary. Worse than RIFT, 100% copy of WoW with a StarWars skin.
If you're looking for a true take on Star Wars SWTOR is not for you, but if you're looking for a Single Player game with COOP elements && you like WoW then SWTOR is for you!!
-Faded
WOW looks alot like DAOC and EQ, they didn't invent the mmo. They just made one simple and accessible enough to hold the attention of ADD America.
DING DING DING DING DING!
We have a winner!
The other thing Blizz did was not release the thing half baked, but rather more like 4/5ths baked, which made a huge difference.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
An important point is that the "theme park" game is what sells the most, and these guys are in this for the money, because for the really big games (we're not talking Kingdom of Loathing here) being a labor of love that you can make a living at has no appeal to the greedy investors out there who want some of that sweet sweet WoW profit .
Sandbox games just do not have the mass appeal, the huge audience, that the theme park games do. This is a sad reality of the basic economic underpinning of the MMO industry. WoW found the sweet spot...so everyone seeks to join Blizzard in that space.
Hmm... all AAA themepark games from WoW onward have flopped to a degree. So the statement "themepark game is what sells the most" is patently untrue. It is an ancient dogma which grew up from I really don't know where or how. It is just one of those "truisms" that if you look at close enough you find patently untrue.
Empirically, making an AAA mmo a "themepark" has been so far (past 7+ years) a PROVEN 100% recipe for fail.
As for sandbox games somehow inherently "not having a mass audience", that's a load of crap. The biggest IP in computer game history is the Sims which is nothing more than a sandbox. Civilization is "sandbox". The much maligned but massively profitable Farmville is "sandbox" - literaly! And now you have Minecraft, raking in the kills with its 8-bit graphics and it is... what? A "sandbox."
Please tell me of ONE AAA sandbox mmo that failed. You can't? Well that's because no one had the balls to try it... Ha ha, AAA sandboxes have a 100% massive success rate because there is only one made so far, Ultima Online lol. A shoddily made low budget themepark will fail as easily as a sandbox game made in similar circumstances.. even more so because I see crappy sandboxes struggling on and gathering loyal subscribers (Darkfall for example, and EvE as it begun) while I really can't see ANY themepark with such low production values lasting more than a few days if even that.
The funny thing is that those devs who don't have the courage to try a AAA mmo still have quite enough balls to do another themeparky WoW/EQ type game knowing full well, in the depths of their hearts that it is doomed to failure. So let's rather make sure we fail rather than risk a chance at something truly succesful. That's mammalian psychology for you - better evil that I know than the Unknown which might surprise me.
Imo the main problem why mmo industry is in such a rut compared to the rest of the gaming industry is precisely the mullish belief in this "self-evident" fact that "sandboxes don't have a mass appeal". The first company that manages to create a AAA sandbox SUFFICIENTLY EVOLVED from the UO model as WoW was from EQ will be the one to make a real splash, comparable to what Bliz did with WoW. All the rest is just riding on the coattails of The Beast (you all know who I'm talking about.)
Choices doesn't mean a thing, unless the choice you make actually influence the WORLD you play in, and not just your own little storyline.
As someone pointed out in a post I read, which nailed it just right:
You beat this leader of the local Sith force, and feel proud about it. A little later, you realize that everyone are doing the same thing, in the same world.
It makes a bad storyline to do it this way. I know it takes a lot of effort to avoid this, but I honestly expected BioWare to pick up that same challenge, but they just rode along the old band wagon of horrible storylines, which has no logic to it whatsoever.
It means something to me, because I happen to like stories and I happen to like the idea that I can participate in it and influence the story. While it would be nice to see it represented in the actual game world, it's enough that it affects the outcome of my story.
You got a whole array of single player games which beats the crap out of SWTOR as for storylines (Bethesda's games being excellent examples of this). My worry is that your choices, wont affect my choices. When this doesn't happen, it loses the MMO feel bigtime IMO.
In groups, if you win the roll your choice does affect others.
Very true, but I am not talking about this relatively tiny tiny influence. I hope you are joking.
I play MMOs... I am a connoisseur... I will play this game in beta but from everything I see its not anywhere near what the hype and talk of it is. I hate people who are ignorant and misinformed... I have watched videos and studied the game mechanics.... its typical... i will not claim it a great or revolutionary game... its just wow with Star Wars... cool stuff
You mean its exactly like Wow but star wars? Omg now im even more excited to play.. I was thinking star wars , created by a different devleoper the better part of a decade later would be different.. But atleast sayings its a exact wow clone assures some level of quality. You have convinced me to go pre-order instead of just waiting until launch..
i agree with OP 100%. TOR will be nice, but it is a down-grade from the next gen games that are coming out it definitely will not change the industry in any significant way. if anything, it's like another WoW: many subs (bandwagon effect), but not much going on.
Fun fact: TOR has already changed the industry and it isn't even out yet. Story is the new cool buzz word.
i browse the internets quite a bit, go on gaming sites, etc. story definitely is not the new buzz word. dynamic events are the new cool thing actually. Skyrim is implementing a similar system, along with a bunch of new non-mmo's that are coming out. no one is saying "oooo our game is gonna have a STORY"
An important point is that the "theme park" game is what sells the most, and these guys are in this for the money, because for the really big games (we're not talking Kingdom of Loathing here) being a labor of love that you can make a living at has no appeal to the greedy investors out there who want some of that sweet sweet WoW profit .
Sandbox games just do not have the mass appeal, the huge audience, that the theme park games do. This is a sad reality of the basic economic underpinning of the MMO industry. WoW found the sweet spot...so everyone seeks to join Blizzard in that space.
Hmm... all AAA themepark games from WoW onward have flopped to a degree. So the statement "themepark game is what sells the most" is patently untrue. It is an ancient dogma which grew up from I really don't know where or how. It is just one of those "truisms" that if you look at close enough you find patently untrue.
Empirically, making an AAA mmo a "themepark" has been so far (past 7+ years) a PROVEN 100% recipe for fail.
As for sandbox games somehow inherently "not having a mass audience", that's a load of crap. The biggest IP in computer game history is the Sims which is nothing more than a sandbox. Civilization is "sandbox". The much maligned but massively profitable Farmville is "sandbox" - literaly! And now you have Minecraft, raking in the kills with its 8-bit graphics and it is... what? A "sandbox."
Imo the main problem why mmo industry is in such a rut compared to the rest of the gaming industry is precisely this "self-evident" fact that "sandboxes don't have a mass appeal". The first company that manages to create a AAA sandbox SUFFICIENTLY EVOLVED from the UO model as WoW was from EQ will be the one to make a real splash, comparable to what Bliz did with WoW. All the rest is just riding on the coattails of The Beast (you all know who I'm talking about.)
I agree with your last paragraph, completely.
The thing is, the moneymen are only interested in money. The theme park game (WoW) has what, 12 million subscribers? Which is like 11 million plus more than anyone else?
So the theme park RULES. Not on the basis of the superiority of gameplay, but on sheer weight of numbers, as in simoleons. The spreadsheet numbers are all that the investors care about.
Never mind that much of WoW"s success has to do with presentation, with accessability, and with just plain WORKING right out of the box. Just being a theme park game is not enough, but you can't convince most of the MBA asshats who steer the ships of MMO development along. The Raph Kosters do not call the shots. The John Smedleys do. All the John Smedleys see is the theme park.
This is the secret that no one has been willing to commit to replicating...instead they're still following the standard practice of the software industry to push a half baked product out the door and then patch it later with revenue derived from the original sale. If you do that, compared to WoW, you will fail. But they don't get that at all. It's really quite simple, but the industry just can't grasp it. Heck, even Blizz is falling into the trap nowadays.
I also do believe that the theme park, being very easy to keep mostly passive consumers engaged, has an edge on the sandbox, which requires more imagination than a lot of players are willing, or capable, of investing in the game. Thus we're seeing a lot more scripted stories being told in which you are basically a character in a movie, moving along a predetermined path, experiencing the movie world as you do so. That's the entertainment value. You're not really allowed to venture too far off the path, or start improvising. Which for a lot of players is just fine with them.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Fun fact: TOR has already changed the industry and it isn't even out yet. Story is the new cool buzz word.
i browse the internets quite a bit, go on gaming sites, etc. story definitely is not the new buzz word. dynamic events are the new cool thing actually. Skyrim is implementing a similar system, along with a bunch of new non-mmo's that are coming out. no one is saying "oooo our game is gonna have a STORY"
Comments
Fun > Revolutionary.. Many will love it and many will hate it but that is to be expected.
These threads always crack me up. Especially the ones that claim a game isn't revolutionary or is too beholden to the trinity of classes(tank/healer/dps). Since the op felt it important that we all read his view , i now feel my thoughts on the matter are equally important.
1.) exactly what do you want to be revolutionary? The AI of mobs has natural limitations based on technology and/or cost.
2.) Quest vs sandbox? i prefer sandbox games myself, but the vast majority of sheeple seem to enjoy themepark games, so that's what succeeds. So, baaah I'll follow too. But those really are the only two alternatives and they've both been done before.
3.) Classes, in order for a game to be a worthwhile mmo grouping has to be in the game, the mechanics of the game have to encourage grouping. If it doesn't and you can solo all the way to max level, why play an mmo? Any number of single player rpgs would probably be better. So with that said for group worthy content you'll need someone that can heal. If you have someone healing it makes someone tanking needful. If every class or character in a skill based game, can do that then you're in a situation where no one needs to group. OR you end up with a game where everyone is dps, guess what that's called? That's right, a FPS now if you want to play a revolutionary MMOFPS by all means do so, but understand RPG and FPS are two different games.
Anyways, I like interfaces i am comfortable with. I like classes as opposed to skill based games which inevitably lead to everybody playing one of three uber builds. I like my mmorpgs to be group friendly, otherwise I'd just be waiting for the next installment of dragonage. And I like my rpgs to be rpgs not FPS.
HOLY CRAP.....that looks TERRBILE. FARRRRR too much WoW in that game for me. Seriously, watch that video! I've been following this game with a vague interest, but after watching that E3 video I compared it to random WoW-instance videos & realized how copied WoW has become.
Literally, look @ the stat system & inventory system of WoW not to mention the skill system of WoW then look @ SWTOR. SWTOR is, IN ZERO WAY, revolutionary. Worse than RIFT, 100% copy of WoW with a StarWars skin.
If you're looking for a true take on Star Wars SWTOR is not for you, but if you're looking for a Single Player game with COOP elements && you like WoW then SWTOR is for you!!
-Faded
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
I agree with the TC, and im still going to pre order and buy the game on my own terms.
its loosely the same reasons i have with any other games that certain audience members hype up to the moon and when you look at the videos it always seems to go through this route:
"well .... as long as its relatively different, ill enjoy it"
or
" lord....in before the second coming cult"
worse case being when the company themselves start touting words like "revolutionary, second coming, never before seen, innovative." is when.. at times i want to keep the pimp hand strong and show them there place (with my wallet)
No... It doesn't make a bad storyline. It may affect your immersion to know that my Sith were defeated too, but that doesn't mean the tale actually being spun was poorly constructed. That just means you're in an MMO. It's not feasible in any massive online environment to have everything you do make a permanent, static change for all who come after you. Oh you killed the Sith Emperor already? Shoot, guess I'll never get to do that now.
No MMO is ever going to have what you just described. Ever.
In groups, if you win the roll your choice does affect others.
WOW looks alot like DAOC and EQ, they didn't invent the mmo. They just made one simple and accessible enough to hold the attention of ADD America.
Fair enough
And I agree that BioWare isn't being revolutionary. I'd say this is only evolutionary. It's a new step, and only time will tell if it's a step in the right direction or not.
But there does seem to be a more concerted effort to actively derail any possible success for this game than for any other I've seen in quite a while. GW2 too.
Flip that on its head, an it's a positive sign for both games. If they're selling well enough for the doomcriers to line up against them, looking good for the success of both games.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
An important point is that the "theme park" game is what sells the most, and these guys are in this for the money, because for the really big games (we're not talking Kingdom of Loathing here) being a labor of love that you can make a living at has no appeal to the greedy investors out there who want some of that sweet sweet WoW profit .
Sandbox games just do not have the mass appeal, the huge audience, that the theme park games do. This is a sad reality of the basic economic underpinning of the MMO industry. WoW found the sweet spot...so everyone seeks to join Blizzard in that space.
So we're not going to see a revolution, especially in the current economic climate. We're going to see evolution.
"Revolution" is, as I indicated earlier, copy from a PowerPoint slide for the moneymen who back the games.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Agree with you 100% SioBabble.
Umm no they have not.
@ OP This game birthed its development in 2005-2006. It is the first mmo by Bioware and at that time what they were thinking was taking the standard format and adding an amazing story element. They have to be successful with this so systems were moddled after what works in the industry at the time (WoW,etc.). Over the development cycle, they dont not have the time or money to try and change everything thats has been mapped out over the years, I'm sure many at Bioware would love to do something revolutionary but it is to big a risk with such a game being developed over the years, they would have to change so many things which would push the release date even further into the future (3 - 4 years). The game will be very good but who is going to fund a mmo revolution at this time, GW2 is doing things different and companies will wait and see if it works. Then maybe they will start to push the boundries a little bit. You have to ask yourself, what is going to sell because mmo projects are absudly expensive and complicated. Indie companies have to lead the way with revolutions, sadly it comes down to time and money as there are plenty of wonderful ideas out there.
I agree, While i voted no on the revolutionary bit of it. I am not playing this game based on that assumption. i am going to play this game for the story element i want an in depth story with in depth companions that i and my friends can enjoy together even if it is KOTOR 3 cause personally i was waiting for that game to come out but it never did.
as for the reason for the lower graphic this is for people who do not have high end computers and do not want to be limited by there graphics.
I cant wait to play and will preorder the game when i have the money.
Games I will be playing are: TES V, SWTOR, ME 3, TSW
And hell, just off the top of my head tanking is going to have a bit of a different mechanic on this game. Troopers and BHs are apparently going to tank from range. That in and of itself is original. That is a small interesting tweek. You're not going to see anything truly revolutionary until the hardware becomes so advanced that you're dealing with an "otherland" or Matrix type situation imho.
So basically you are saying: It can't be done because it's an MMO.
My problem is, that it has no MMO feel to it, when EXACTLY the same story I am presented with, is presented to everyone else. The choice I make in my storyline, means zip zero to their storyline. Don't you really understand the flat feeling you get when you understand that your storyline are just a copy of the guy who were here 5 mins before yourself?
EVE Online, if we disregard the abysmal mission system, is awesome at making storylines. The PLAYERS make the storylines, not by scripts or anything like that, but by actions. What I do, has an impact on other players. Market is 99% player driven, universe is 75% player owned, etc.
When I wake up and log on to a game like EVE, I am excited to find out what changed since I went to bed, do you get that feeling in SWTOR?
You don't have to make a game as "hardcore" as EVE to achieve this, you just need to step of the bloody bandwagon of repeating storylines, and TRY to create something new. At least....TRY, but they did not, I am very dissapointed. Nothing EPIC about a static world.
DING DING DING DING DING!
We have a winner!
The other thing Blizz did was not release the thing half baked, but rather more like 4/5ths baked, which made a huge difference.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Hmm... all AAA themepark games from WoW onward have flopped to a degree. So the statement "themepark game is what sells the most" is patently untrue. It is an ancient dogma which grew up from I really don't know where or how. It is just one of those "truisms" that if you look at close enough you find patently untrue.
Empirically, making an AAA mmo a "themepark" has been so far (past 7+ years) a PROVEN 100% recipe for fail.
As for sandbox games somehow inherently "not having a mass audience", that's a load of crap. The biggest IP in computer game history is the Sims which is nothing more than a sandbox. Civilization is "sandbox". The much maligned but massively profitable Farmville is "sandbox" - literaly! And now you have Minecraft, raking in the kills with its 8-bit graphics and it is... what? A "sandbox."
Please tell me of ONE AAA sandbox mmo that failed. You can't? Well that's because no one had the balls to try it... Ha ha, AAA sandboxes have a 100% massive success rate because there is only one made so far, Ultima Online lol. A shoddily made low budget themepark will fail as easily as a sandbox game made in similar circumstances.. even more so because I see crappy sandboxes struggling on and gathering loyal subscribers (Darkfall for example, and EvE as it begun) while I really can't see ANY themepark with such low production values lasting more than a few days if even that.
The funny thing is that those devs who don't have the courage to try a AAA mmo still have quite enough balls to do another themeparky WoW/EQ type game knowing full well, in the depths of their hearts that it is doomed to failure. So let's rather make sure we fail rather than risk a chance at something truly succesful. That's mammalian psychology for you - better evil that I know than the Unknown which might surprise me.
Imo the main problem why mmo industry is in such a rut compared to the rest of the gaming industry is precisely the mullish belief in this "self-evident" fact that "sandboxes don't have a mass appeal". The first company that manages to create a AAA sandbox SUFFICIENTLY EVOLVED from the UO model as WoW was from EQ will be the one to make a real splash, comparable to what Bliz did with WoW. All the rest is just riding on the coattails of The Beast (you all know who I'm talking about.)
Very true, but I am not talking about this relatively tiny tiny influence. I hope you are joking.
Thread full of laughs. I enjoyed it.
Fun fact: TOR has already changed the industry and it isn't even out yet. Story is the new cool buzz word.
You mean its exactly like Wow but star wars? Omg now im even more excited to play.. I was thinking star wars , created by a different devleoper the better part of a decade later would be different.. But atleast sayings its a exact wow clone assures some level of quality. You have convinced me to go pre-order instead of just waiting until launch..
Thanks Mat
i agree with OP 100%. TOR will be nice, but it is a down-grade from the next gen games that are coming out it definitely will not change the industry in any significant way. if anything, it's like another WoW: many subs (bandwagon effect), but not much going on.
i browse the internets quite a bit, go on gaming sites, etc. story definitely is not the new buzz word. dynamic events are the new cool thing actually. Skyrim is implementing a similar system, along with a bunch of new non-mmo's that are coming out. no one is saying "oooo our game is gonna have a STORY"
I agree with your last paragraph, completely.
The thing is, the moneymen are only interested in money. The theme park game (WoW) has what, 12 million subscribers? Which is like 11 million plus more than anyone else?
So the theme park RULES. Not on the basis of the superiority of gameplay, but on sheer weight of numbers, as in simoleons. The spreadsheet numbers are all that the investors care about.
Never mind that much of WoW"s success has to do with presentation, with accessability, and with just plain WORKING right out of the box. Just being a theme park game is not enough, but you can't convince most of the MBA asshats who steer the ships of MMO development along. The Raph Kosters do not call the shots. The John Smedleys do. All the John Smedleys see is the theme park.
This is the secret that no one has been willing to commit to replicating...instead they're still following the standard practice of the software industry to push a half baked product out the door and then patch it later with revenue derived from the original sale. If you do that, compared to WoW, you will fail. But they don't get that at all. It's really quite simple, but the industry just can't grasp it. Heck, even Blizz is falling into the trap nowadays.
I also do believe that the theme park, being very easy to keep mostly passive consumers engaged, has an edge on the sandbox, which requires more imagination than a lot of players are willing, or capable, of investing in the game. Thus we're seeing a lot more scripted stories being told in which you are basically a character in a movie, moving along a predetermined path, experiencing the movie world as you do so. That's the entertainment value. You're not really allowed to venture too far off the path, or start improvising. Which for a lot of players is just fine with them.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
you are wrong