Originally posted by Torvaldr Why should it wait? You obviously haven't read any of the thread and have only charged in to correct opinions and views different from what you want to see. As has been asked before why should the review wait after the game has been out a year and the company is collecting revenue from it? There is no reason. If the game had just been released, then maybe waiting for a patch would make sense, but as it stands, I can see no reason to wait. Just to point out again, STO had a patch coming out right after its review and the same complaint was raised. That patch didn't deliver the miracle and the review still stands as valid.
You're the one that didn't read the thread. They shouldn't have waited at ALL. They should have posted their review at release (after a reasonably short time to actually experience the game), and then, if warranted, post a re-review when and if the game gets updated so much to deserve a second look.
The fact that the silly choice of positing a review right before a major patch has been made for another game, and that that reviewer has been lucky that his piece didn't become obsolete and misleading because that particular patch didn't deliver doesn't change the concept that posting a review right before there are big chances for it to become misleading and obsolete is unprofessional.
Another reason that the review shouldn't be witheld is because under the current review system anyone can post a review. So if you want a review "post patch" to compare game improvements over this review then you're free to do so. I noticed you were very critical of the reviewers journalistic capacity, well now you're free to try your hand at that yourself and provide your own review. If you dont' like this review, create your own.
LOL. There's a big difference between an official review officially published and endorsed by a site and a simple user review.
But no worries, I'm going to write a full re-review of the game (not here of course, but on the site I work for, I have no reason to contribute to one with such poor standards) when such a thing will be relevant.
There are two times in which a review of a MMORPG is relevant. One is a reasonably short amount of time after it's release, the other is after sizable updates created the conditions to give the game a second look with different results.
That's why I'm currently to re-reviewing Eve Online and Age of Conan, both had very relevant and game-changing additions recently, and they're worth an updated look. None of them has very relevant updates coming shortly, so a reviewing them now won't result in something that will be outdated and mislading in just a few days.
When the same conditions will apply to Final Fantasy XIV, then it'll be justifiable to post a review so long after release.
"A review is not an opinion piece. A rant is an opinion piece (and a poor one). A review needs to be solidly based on facts. Not on hyperbole. On facts."
You are basically contradicting yourself here. In this discussion on this site you are saying opinions in reviews are allowed... yet on the FFXIV forums you say that they can only be comprised of facts? How embarrassing.
Ah, the usual, trite method of misconstruing someone's points when one isn't able to counter them in their original form... how embarassing..
let me explain some *basic* english to you. Something BASED on facts isn't necessarily made ONLY of facts.
FACTS need to be the solid foundation upon which a review is based. Then opinion can be added over that foundation.
In no way or form this means that opinion in a review isn't allowed. That's a clear misrepresentation of my point on your part.
Hyperbole, on the other hand, is not an opinion. Opinions are a complement to facts. Hyperbole is a misrepresentation of facts.
if you want to try and counter my arguments,by all mean do so, but counter *my arguments*, not your personal misrepresentation of them.
To get back on topic, i.e. the review: regardless of the content, which really doesn't seem to be the biggest problem with most people defending the game right now, timing of the review seems to have ruffled everyone's jimmies to the point where they feel the reviewer and mmorpg.com are conspiring against Square Enix and their game. It's absolutely ridiculous that they're treating this as a conspiracy.
Tried this during the beta phase. One of the absolute worst games I have ever tried. That it sold a single copy is absolutely baffling. Beyond amateurish from start to finish. Absolute crap.
Stalking? No. I am a legitimate and regular visitor and poster on the official forums and I happened to come across the thread involving this particular review. Please think before posting.
The problem isn't that you're stalking. I sure have nothing to hide.
The problem is that you openly and blatantly misrepresented my argument since you couldn't counter it in it's original state. Which is rather sad indeed.
Tried this during the beta phase. One of the absolute worst games I have ever tried. That it sold a single copy is absolutely baffling. Beyond amateurish from start to finish. Absolute crap.
Because of course your experience in *beta* is sooo relevant to the state of the game a year after, right?
Tried this during the beta phase. One of the absolute worst games I have ever tried. That it sold a single copy is absolutely baffling. Beyond amateurish from start to finish. Absolute crap.
The only reason it sold at all was because people like myself were suckered in to thinking they'd take any feedback seriously from the alpha/beta stages and fix the game up for launch.
But nope.
The game ended up selling for dirt cheat on amazon not too long ago (not sure if it is now, haven't bothered to check) for like £3 or so. I wish I'd bought it then instead of the £40+ Collector's Edition.
This game is the very definition of buyer's remorse.
Quoting you from the official FFXIV forums about this review's post.
{mod edit}
{mod edit}
To get back on topic, i.e. the review: regardless of the content, which really doesn't seem to be the biggest problem with most people defending the game right now, timing of the review seems to have ruffled everyone's jimmies to the point where they feel the reviewer and mmorpg.com are conspiring against Square Enix and their game. It's absolutely ridiculous that they're treating this as a conspiracy.
{mod edit}
I agree with the first scenario. They probably didn't care.
It's probably taken this long for the review to come because they just simply have had no one willing to play the game in order to submit some form of review for it. The fact that someone indeed did play the game then submit a review for the game, in itself, is praise worthy, regardless of whether it was well written or not.
I agree with the first scenario. They probably didn't care.
It's probably taken this long for the review to come because they just simply have had no one willing to play the game in order to submit some form of review for it. The fact that someone indeed did play the game then submit a review for the game, in itself, is praise worthy, regardless of whether it was well written or not.
Too bad that the pictures included in the article put the "indeed did play the game" part under serious doubt.
A gaming journalist that reviews a PC game normally puts a little effort in taking snapshots from a few different parts of the game, at different stages of gameplay, instead of hurriedly grabbing a handful of pics from the first hour of gameplay, when their character is level 1. It makes the article looks better and more professional.
This article looks more like an ill-conceived copy-paste of hyperbolic complaints taken from the forums than an actual review coming from someone that actually played the game.
I agree with the first scenario. They probably didn't care.
It's probably taken this long for the review to come because they just simply have had no one willing to play the game in order to submit some form of review for it. The fact that someone indeed did play the game then submit a review for the game, in itself, is praise worthy, regardless of whether it was well written or not.
{mod edit}
You are placing an actual definition of "playing the game" I see?
The reviewer indeed made a character and took screenshots, as you said. Does this not consititute playing the game? They also discussed leve quests... so they must have done some of those too, right? The game also launches you in to your first story quest, so the reviewer played through that too, right?
No matter what rules of "playing the game" you place on other people, this reviewer indeed played the game.
I was part of the FFXIV forum community for nearly a year before the games release, honesly the best forum community ive seen yet, and played the game for bout 2 weeks, i saw the fail coming but didnt wanna admit it.
This review really sums up everything of FFXIV to date, so thank you, they should just abandon FFXIV and go back to focus on FFXI.
You are placing an actual definition of "playing the game" I see?
The reviewer indeed made a character and took screenshots, as you said. Does this not consititute playing the game? They also discussed leve quests... so they must have done some of those too, right? The game also launches you in to your first story quest, so the reviewer played through that too, right?
No matter what rules of "playing the game" you place on other people, this reviewer indeed played the game.
Ah, more strawman arguments, I see.
The elements you listed can easily be read on a forum or anywhere else on the internet.
Reviewing a game, and especially one as complex as a MMORPG requires quite a lot more "playing the game" than just installing it, creating a character, and strolling around for a hour or two.
You are placing an actual definition of "playing the game" I see?
The reviewer indeed made a character and took screenshots, as you said. Does this not consititute playing the game? They also discussed leve quests... so they must have done some of those too, right? The game also launches you in to your first story quest, so the reviewer played through that too, right?
No matter what rules of "playing the game" you place on other people, this reviewer indeed played the game.
Ah, more strawman arguments, I see.
The elements you listed can easily be read on a forum or anywhere else on the internet.
Reviewing a game, and especially one as complex as a MMORPG requires quite a lot more "playing the game" than just installing it, creating a character, and strolling around for a hour or two.
There was no straw man argument being made. Please look up what this means (as well as hyperbole) before placing the word in almost every single post you make.
As I have previously said, the reviewer has played the story quest, gone through their leve quests and has taken the time to do all of these in each city.
That constitutes having played the game, not just "strolling around".
Quoting you from the official FFXIV forums about this review's post.
{mod edit}
{mod edit}
To get back on topic, i.e. the review: regardless of the content, which really doesn't seem to be the biggest problem with most people defending the game right now, timing of the review seems to have ruffled everyone's jimmies to the point where they feel the reviewer and mmorpg.com are conspiring against Square Enix and their game. It's absolutely ridiculous that they're treating this as a conspiracy.
{mod edit}
I agree with the first scenario. They probably didn't care.
It's probably taken this long for the review to come because they just simply have had no one willing to play the game in order to submit some form of review for it. The fact that someone indeed did play the game then submit a review for the game, in itself, is praise worthy, regardless of whether it was well written or not.
{mod edit}
If you are so sure people were willing to make a review for the game nearer to the launch date for this sitethen why wasn't there one made?
You are placing an actual definition of "playing the game" I see?
The reviewer indeed made a character and took screenshots, as you said. Does this not consititute playing the game? They also discussed leve quests... so they must have done some of those too, right? The game also launches you in to your first story quest, so the reviewer played through that too, right?
No matter what rules of "playing the game" you place on other people, this reviewer indeed played the game.
Ah, more strawman arguments, I see.
The elements you listed can easily be read on a forum or anywhere else on the internet.
Reviewing a game, and especially one as complex as a MMORPG requires quite a lot more "playing the game" than just installing it, creating a character, and strolling around for a hour or two.
There was no straw man argument being made. Please look up what this means (as well as hyperbole) before placing the word in almost every single post you make.
As I have previously said, the reviewer has played the story quest, gone through their leve quests and has taken the time to do all of these in each city.
That constitutes having played the game, not just "strolling around".
I see zero evidence of any of that in the article. She made no reference to the main storyline only implied taht guildleves were quests (they are not) and that they had weak uninteresting plots that were weakly woven together. This is not accurate at all of the main storyline. The problem with the main storyline is that it does not make up a very large portion of the content at this point, however in this week's patch and the implementation of the grand companies we will get more lore/story fitting in with the overall grand arching conflict between the city states of Eorzea+beastman and primals versus the Garlean Empire.
She mentioned none of this because she didn't really play it or even spend 5 minutes doing research on the game (hell 5 seconds visiting the lodestone would have done wonders to clear up some of the false information she included in her review)
I was part of the FFXIV forum community for nearly a year before the games release, honesly the best forum community ive seen yet, and played the game for bout 2 weeks, i saw the fail coming but didnt wanna admit it.
This review really sums up everything of FFXIV to date, so thank you, they should just abandon FFXIV and go back to focus on FFXI.
Such a shame
Get sick of people thinking that their experience in beta / the first few weeks = up to date.
You are placing an actual definition of "playing the game" I see?
The reviewer indeed made a character and took screenshots, as you said. Does this not consititute playing the game? They also discussed leve quests... so they must have done some of those too, right? The game also launches you in to your first story quest, so the reviewer played through that too, right?
No matter what rules of "playing the game" you place on other people, this reviewer indeed played the game.
Ah, more strawman arguments, I see.
The elements you listed can easily be read on a forum or anywhere else on the internet.
Reviewing a game, and especially one as complex as a MMORPG requires quite a lot more "playing the game" than just installing it, creating a character, and strolling around for a hour or two.
There was no straw man argument being made. Please look up what this means (as well as hyperbole) before placing the word in almost every single post you make.
As I have previously said, the reviewer has played the story quest, gone through their leve quests and has taken the time to do all of these in each city.
That constitutes having played the game, not just "strolling around".
{mod edit}
Evidence that the reviewer started a character in all three cities:
"The opening cinemas for the three starting lands are impressive, I won’t deny that."
Evidence that the reviewer played the tutorial story quests:
"In fact, the quest which begins during this tutorial phase is a great example of what awaits players: Monotonous running around, lukewarm cut scenes"
There was no straw man argument being made. Please look up what this means (as well as hyperbole) before placing the word in almost every single post you make.
As I have previously said, the reviewer has played the story quest, gone through their leve quests and has taken the time to do all of these in each city.
That constitutes having played the game, not just "strolling around".
Maybe you should look them up, as the use of those two definition is perfectly fitting to this case.
You're misrepresenting and misconstruing my arguments, arguing against such misrepresentation instead of them (because you can't counter them in their original form and content), which is a by-the-book strawman argument.
The review overdramatizes and overemphasizes almost all the negative points listed, which is again a by-the-book example of widespread use of hyperbole, that is a misrepresentation of reality.
Played the story quest? Then why didn't she post pictures of the story quest past the very few cutscenes that you get before entering the game proper? Gone through leve quests? Where's the evidence of that?
Nothing proves that she did actually play the game further than strolling around a couple hours, while the choice of pictures quite evidently shows that either she's been extremely lazy, or she simply didn't go beyond that. In both cases they definitely undermine the credibility of this review.
Evidence that the reviewer started a character in all three cities:
"The opening cinemas for the three starting lands are impressive, I won’t deny that."
Evidence that the reviewer played the tutorial story quests:
"In fact, the quest which begins during this tutorial phase is a great example of what awaits players: Monotonous running around, lukewarm cut scenes"
Aside from the fact that that is no "evidence", as she could write that the sky is orange, even if we decided to just go ahead and do a leap of faith trusting what she writes, that costitutes less than a couple hours of gameplay, which is nowhere near what's needed to review a game, let alone a MMORPG.
You are placing an actual definition of "playing the game" I see?
The reviewer indeed made a character and took screenshots, as you said. Does this not consititute playing the game? They also discussed leve quests... so they must have done some of those too, right? The game also launches you in to your first story quest, so the reviewer played through that too, right?
No matter what rules of "playing the game" you place on other people, this reviewer indeed played the game.
Ah, more strawman arguments, I see.
The elements you listed can easily be read on a forum or anywhere else on the internet.
Reviewing a game, and especially one as complex as a MMORPG requires quite a lot more "playing the game" than just installing it, creating a character, and strolling around for a hour or two.
There was no straw man argument being made. Please look up what this means (as well as hyperbole) before placing the word in almost every single post you make.
As I have previously said, the reviewer has played the story quest, gone through their leve quests and has taken the time to do all of these in each city.
That constitutes having played the game, not just "strolling around".
{mod edit}
When I said each city, I meant making a new character in each one to see how they differed in terms of story and cut scenes.
Also I gather you're getting the character's level from the screenshots? That might have been their level at that time but after some guildleves that would have gone up considerably.
None of the screenshots show the reviewer's character's name so we couldn't do a lodestone lookup to check this so we cannot be certain either way but I will not outright believe they are lying without proof stating otherwise.
I think I lasted a month. That was at least 6 months ago. I see nothing has changed.
Oh, a lot has changed. This review is simply a misrepresentation of the current state of the game, while your post is just another example of the detrimental effects of that kind of misrepresenting reviews.
You guys are disgustingly terrible at pyramid quoting. Delete any text in any of the quotes that isn't relevant to your current point. Of the remaining text, highly the particular parts you're replying to.
Eh, unfortunately this forum is poorly coded and the so called "enhanced editor" makes it very hard to do so effectively. I use the BBML editor to do so, but can't demand everyone to do it.
The lack of fluid fast paced lip numbing combat turns me off. But when everything comes into play, I'd have to say this is my least favorite mmorpg of all time.
Comments
You're the one that didn't read the thread. They shouldn't have waited at ALL. They should have posted their review at release (after a reasonably short time to actually experience the game), and then, if warranted, post a re-review when and if the game gets updated so much to deserve a second look.
The fact that the silly choice of positing a review right before a major patch has been made for another game, and that that reviewer has been lucky that his piece didn't become obsolete and misleading because that particular patch didn't deliver doesn't change the concept that posting a review right before there are big chances for it to become misleading and obsolete is unprofessional.
LOL. There's a big difference between an official review officially published and endorsed by a site and a simple user review.
But no worries, I'm going to write a full re-review of the game (not here of course, but on the site I work for, I have no reason to contribute to one with such poor standards) when such a thing will be relevant.
There are two times in which a review of a MMORPG is relevant. One is a reasonably short amount of time after it's release, the other is after sizable updates created the conditions to give the game a second look with different results.
That's why I'm currently to re-reviewing Eve Online and Age of Conan, both had very relevant and game-changing additions recently, and they're worth an updated look. None of them has very relevant updates coming shortly, so a reviewing them now won't result in something that will be outdated and mislading in just a few days.
When the same conditions will apply to Final Fantasy XIV, then it'll be justifiable to post a review so long after release.
Ah, the usual, trite method of misconstruing someone's points when one isn't able to counter them in their original form... how embarassing..
let me explain some *basic* english to you. Something BASED on facts isn't necessarily made ONLY of facts.
FACTS need to be the solid foundation upon which a review is based. Then opinion can be added over that foundation.
In no way or form this means that opinion in a review isn't allowed. That's a clear misrepresentation of my point on your part.
Hyperbole, on the other hand, is not an opinion. Opinions are a complement to facts. Hyperbole is a misrepresentation of facts.
if you want to try and counter my arguments,by all mean do so, but counter *my arguments*, not your personal misrepresentation of them.
{mod edit}
To get back on topic, i.e. the review: regardless of the content, which really doesn't seem to be the biggest problem with most people defending the game right now, timing of the review seems to have ruffled everyone's jimmies to the point where they feel the reviewer and mmorpg.com are conspiring against Square Enix and their game. It's absolutely ridiculous that they're treating this as a conspiracy.
Tried this during the beta phase. One of the absolute worst games I have ever tried. That it sold a single copy is absolutely baffling. Beyond amateurish from start to finish. Absolute crap.
The problem isn't that you're stalking. I sure have nothing to hide.
The problem is that you openly and blatantly misrepresented my argument since you couldn't counter it in it's original state. Which is rather sad indeed.
Because of course your experience in *beta* is sooo relevant to the state of the game a year after, right?
The only reason it sold at all was because people like myself were suckered in to thinking they'd take any feedback seriously from the alpha/beta stages and fix the game up for launch.
But nope.
The game ended up selling for dirt cheat on amazon not too long ago (not sure if it is now, haven't bothered to check) for like £3 or so. I wish I'd bought it then instead of the £40+ Collector's Edition.
This game is the very definition of buyer's remorse.
I agree with the first scenario. They probably didn't care.
It's probably taken this long for the review to come because they just simply have had no one willing to play the game in order to submit some form of review for it. The fact that someone indeed did play the game then submit a review for the game, in itself, is praise worthy, regardless of whether it was well written or not.
Too bad that the pictures included in the article put the "indeed did play the game" part under serious doubt.
A gaming journalist that reviews a PC game normally puts a little effort in taking snapshots from a few different parts of the game, at different stages of gameplay, instead of hurriedly grabbing a handful of pics from the first hour of gameplay, when their character is level 1. It makes the article looks better and more professional.
This article looks more like an ill-conceived copy-paste of hyperbolic complaints taken from the forums than an actual review coming from someone that actually played the game.
You are placing an actual definition of "playing the game" I see?
The reviewer indeed made a character and took screenshots, as you said. Does this not consititute playing the game? They also discussed leve quests... so they must have done some of those too, right? The game also launches you in to your first story quest, so the reviewer played through that too, right?
No matter what rules of "playing the game" you place on other people, this reviewer indeed played the game.
I was part of the FFXIV forum community for nearly a year before the games release, honesly the best forum community ive seen yet, and played the game for bout 2 weeks, i saw the fail coming but didnt wanna admit it.
This review really sums up everything of FFXIV to date, so thank you, they should just abandon FFXIV and go back to focus on FFXI.
Such a shame
Ah, more strawman arguments, I see.
The elements you listed can easily be read on a forum or anywhere else on the internet.
Reviewing a game, and especially one as complex as a MMORPG requires quite a lot more "playing the game" than just installing it, creating a character, and strolling around for a hour or two.
There was no straw man argument being made. Please look up what this means (as well as hyperbole) before placing the word in almost every single post you make.
As I have previously said, the reviewer has played the story quest, gone through their leve quests and has taken the time to do all of these in each city.
That constitutes having played the game, not just "strolling around".
If you are so sure people were willing to make a review for the game nearer to the launch date for this site then why wasn't there one made?
I see zero evidence of any of that in the article. She made no reference to the main storyline only implied taht guildleves were quests (they are not) and that they had weak uninteresting plots that were weakly woven together. This is not accurate at all of the main storyline. The problem with the main storyline is that it does not make up a very large portion of the content at this point, however in this week's patch and the implementation of the grand companies we will get more lore/story fitting in with the overall grand arching conflict between the city states of Eorzea+beastman and primals versus the Garlean Empire.
She mentioned none of this because she didn't really play it or even spend 5 minutes doing research on the game (hell 5 seconds visiting the lodestone would have done wonders to clear up some of the false information she included in her review)
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
Get sick of people thinking that their experience in beta / the first few weeks = up to date.
Evidence that the reviewer started a character in all three cities:
"The opening cinemas for the three starting lands are impressive, I won’t deny that."
Evidence that the reviewer played the tutorial story quests:
"In fact, the quest which begins during this tutorial phase is a great example of what awaits players: Monotonous running around, lukewarm cut scenes"
Maybe you should look them up, as the use of those two definition is perfectly fitting to this case.
You're misrepresenting and misconstruing my arguments, arguing against such misrepresentation instead of them (because you can't counter them in their original form and content), which is a by-the-book strawman argument.
The review overdramatizes and overemphasizes almost all the negative points listed, which is again a by-the-book example of widespread use of hyperbole, that is a misrepresentation of reality.
Played the story quest? Then why didn't she post pictures of the story quest past the very few cutscenes that you get before entering the game proper? Gone through leve quests? Where's the evidence of that?
Nothing proves that she did actually play the game further than strolling around a couple hours, while the choice of pictures quite evidently shows that either she's been extremely lazy, or she simply didn't go beyond that. In both cases they definitely undermine the credibility of this review.
Aside from the fact that that is no "evidence", as she could write that the sky is orange, even if we decided to just go ahead and do a leap of faith trusting what she writes, that costitutes less than a couple hours of gameplay, which is nowhere near what's needed to review a game, let alone a MMORPG.
Mate, you're digging your own grave.
When I said each city, I meant making a new character in each one to see how they differed in terms of story and cut scenes.
Also I gather you're getting the character's level from the screenshots? That might have been their level at that time but after some guildleves that would have gone up considerably.
None of the screenshots show the reviewer's character's name so we couldn't do a lodestone lookup to check this so we cannot be certain either way but I will not outright believe they are lying without proof stating otherwise.
I think I lasted a month. That was at least 6 months ago. I see nothing has changed.
Oh, a lot has changed. This review is simply a misrepresentation of the current state of the game, while your post is just another example of the detrimental effects of that kind of misrepresenting reviews.
Nevermind.
Eh, unfortunately this forum is poorly coded and the so called "enhanced editor" makes it very hard to do so effectively. I use the BBML editor to do so, but can't demand everyone to do it.
The lack of fluid fast paced lip numbing combat turns me off. But when everything comes into play, I'd have to say this is my least favorite mmorpg of all time.