>> Fact: the developpers like the way it is right now.
True I guess.
>> Fact: the skill system the way it is creates two kind of players that can hardly cooperate.
Not true. What would a fleet be without tacklers or EW? A dead fleet. You can train a character for those roles in DAYS. Getting PE4/5, hauling, sales etc if that's your thing doesn't take long at all either, a month tops.
>> Fact: some people like the skill system and some dont.
Self evident.
>> Fact: the skills take ages to bring up (this statement come Oveur a developper himself and not me).
Ages to get level 5, yeah. Level 3 or 4 usually takes hours.
>> Fact: there are "loads" of new skills added every month to every months. (if I said other wise I was out there). As of the term "load" this come from TOMB another developper and not me and this refers to the next patch COSMOS and can be applyed to the last patch and EXODUS patch.
"Loads" in one of the big expansions maybe. Loads of new skills for loads of new things.
>> Fact: The list of skills required to play eve is getting longer.
Not really, the only skills "required" is what you start out with. It's what we all played with too. The list of skills you desire might be expanding though. They're not required anymore than everyone is required to have a BS.
>> Fact: New players are faced with a very long list of skills to bring up.
Until what? There's no magic tipping point where you're teh pwn. EVERYONE is looking at the next skill over the horizon. It's just the nature of the beast.
>> Fact: If you start a character today in eve you will need an extensive period of preparation before enjoying the game.
Not really. You can enjoy the game from day 1. I made a PVP support character last month and was having fun with him in hours. Still do. I had fun with my main from day 1 also.
>> Fact: If today you start a character you will have limited interation with the possibilities of the game.
Everyone is has to work with limitations in the game. I can't just swan into any 0.0 area I choose without a very high risk of gankage.
>> Fact: New players quit before having a playable character.
No one has quit before having a playable character. Unless they cancel before creating their first toon. If you don't feel your character is playable then I'm afraid it's all in your head. Rather like someone who's grinding their way through WOW or EQ2 because at the level cap "the fun starts" or whatever.
I really feel you haven't understood the skill system or what it's trying to achieve.
Ok, here are some answers to your "facts" , as you like to call whatever you blurt out a "fact" I can't really keep a rational state of mind very long so, here it is.
Originally posted by gizmoflash, answers are between the brackets Fact: the developpers like the way it is right now. [That's because it is a unique skill system on the MMO market].Fact: the skill system the way it is creates two kind of players that can hardly cooperate. [Did you even read what you wrote down ? The skills systems does nothing but advanced a chracters skill. If you couldn't get along with someone because they had more or less skill points than you, well, that's called personel relations, not faulty game mechanics].Fact: some people like the skill system and some dont. [Again, this is an observation not a fact and a useless one at that, hey, some people like cherry ice cream and some don't, pointless argument].Fact: the skills take ages to bring up (this statement come Oveur a developper himself and not me). [Yes, when you take it out of context, it sounds bad, but when he said that "maxing out all skills" would take ages, it kind of makes sense, dosen't it ?].Fact: there are "loads" of new skills added every month to every months. (if I said other wise I was out there). As of the term "load" this come from TOMB another developper and not me and this refers to the next patch COSMOS and can be applyed to the last patch and EXODUS patch. [What is wrong with having new skills for people to train ? Seems like you want to be able to "beat" the game, which is something you cannot do in any MMO I'm afraid].Fact: The list of skills required to play eve is getting longer. [Last I checked, you don't "require" any skills to the play the game. This ties into the argument I brought up like a week ago, you need to "specialize". Once again, not a fact, personnel opinion].Fact: New players are faced with a very long list of skills to bring up. [New players are bombarded with a whole lot of skills, how is that bad ? You would rather be forced to learn skills based on a tree or something ?].Fact: If you start a character today in eve you will need an extensive period of preparation before enjoying the game. [Myself and alot of people I know started having lots of fun from day 1. Again, this is not a fact but an observation, there is a difference between the two].Fact: If today you start a character you will have limited interation with the possibilities of the game.[Not even sure what that means but, limited possibilities when you start yes, once you get into the game, more and more doors open up *continuity anyone?*].Fact: New players quit before having a playable character. [Yes, SOME players quit before understanding how the game works, happens with all games].Telling me I did'nt gave facts is tendancious and indicates something I have noticed from the discussions in the eve forums and is been carried here too by very implicated players in eve. [I say so, because even after mentioning you keep trying to pass personnel observations off as facts which can discourage new players from even trying the game in the first place].Eve online is an addictive game. When it come to talking about the good sides as of the bad sides of the game becomes an intricate complex discussion on highly technical data accessible to very skilled players. It tend to leave the rational to a very emotive level of dicussion. [Ummm, the game isn't that technical, yes, the algorithmes which make up the programming are complicated but, like you said, EVE is a game and it's kind of simple to talk about a game].I will state this:Eve is an online game no more no less. [Who ever said it was anything else?].Eve is a product and it is on the market as other MMORG. [Wow, I'm sure no one ever realized that].Eve as a product that can be openly talked about. [This is what rational people try to do, only problem you seem to have is actualy, reading what other people are trying to tell you. There are two sides to every argument which can be discussed or debated on and you really don't seem to get that there are people who do like this game and some of them actualy now how to form an argument].Fact: TOMB said about last discussion on the missile modifications "Be aware of what you post here (referring to the missile modifications forum in eve online website), this forum is moderated very cruel people". [Yes, the EVE-online official forums and really insane, probably only 1 of out every 20 can actualy reply to a post without doing what you just did with your last few posts].This is a clear indication that some players in the game are way over their head with eve online. [Every game has fanboys and girls and people who love the game. Yes, I myself am I fanboy but, I will not down you for giving out negative crticism. What your are doing is simply bashing them game with whatever you can think up and call it facts. Just because you "say so" does not make it a fact. Just because you played the game for a year, does not mean you know everything about it nor everyone that plays it.]Fact: you need to have some guts now to talk about eve online. Eve website forums are filled now with peeps being shut off and often you will be argued that you dont know what you are talking bout etc. I am really not surprised of what I hear here because this is going on in the eve online website. Most players dont post anything because they will be gagged or shut off by very implicated players that are way over their head into eve online. [False, you need a brain to talk about the game because if you don't someone who does have one will simply take every single one of your "factual" arguments and rip them to shreds like I am doing right now].I will not copy and paste massive data here. Maybe a link or a thread is enoth. If people want to get them they will or not. Adding massive data to shut off somedy is in my eye censorship. [So, showing people facts is censorship but whining continuously is ok? Give me a break. That information was posted to show someone just how rediculous their claim of "no content in EVE" really was].I will continue to have a very constructive approach to eve and the problems there is in the game. [Whining non-stop on a public forum is not constructive. Giving away faulty information about a game is not constructive. Stop trying to think you are actualy doing something of use when you can't even reply do a single friggin' statement made by anyone else].I am not a "spcecialist" of eve online and neither needs to be to play a MMORG. [Oh, he goes for the low blow at the end, good for you, you actualy did read "some" of what I posted. Again, no one ever said you had to be a specialist to play the game, I said "specialize" if you want to have an impact].Have a nice game.
gizmo, do everyone a favor and just stop posting here. Seriously, just ... never ... ever ... post another reply or quote or start a new topic in this part of the forums ever again. I've continously tried to have a civil discussion with you but you cannot seem to critically analyze english writing so please, go somewhere else. If you don't want to listen, don't speak up. Personnel opinions are fine and dandy but continously retorking total BS information and trying to pass it off as a valid source to people who might not know any better is extremely damaging to this industry and is exactly the opposite of what this site is here to do.
These forums exist so that people can learn/discuss about topics and events of specific MMO's that are available on the market, if you like to whine and talk about how baddly you were wronged by people when you tried to explain your dilema, get an appointment with a shrink, that's what they are there for.
Again, please, just go away.
Thank you for reading and not replying even though you probably will just to further annoy me and extend this useless argument further.
Edit : Nice reply Sparky, wasen't there when I started writing this, would of saved me some time and effort, oh well, hopefuly he'll get the message this time *shruggs*.
Dakilla[666] ~ The Realm ~ Level 1000 enchanter (retired) Maranthoric ~ La 4ieme Prophetie ~ Level 160 (5x) HE/Feu (de retour) Leonthoric[DDC] ~ EVE online ~ <Fire The "Laser"> (retired)
Originally posted by Compi Something that could help with the difference between old and new players, would be doing the old players slower getting skill points. Like if you would be getting older in game. So it would make a little smaller the difference between both groups.
Ahhh finally somehting related to the topic.
I thaught about it.
I am not an expert on the way this could be setted up thaugh. For me the way I tryed to get ahead is to get the advanced learning and the day I quit I had combined those to implants. My arms falled off on my lap when I started calculating how much time still required to get some stuff done in the game.
For me the skilling time to get stuff done in the game got me out of the game. I was in the game for good period of time and was confined in some pretty random stuff. I started in "empire" as all new players. Did le level 1, 2, 3 and in the level 3 missions was at the best agent I could get because for the level 4 missions I did'nt had the skills to do them solo. We where doing in group some level 3 missions and splitting the bounties and reward because most peeps I was with did'nt had the skills to get in level 4 missions.
Our corp got in 0.0 and a couple peeps from our corp got in 0.0. As I thaught most of us wherent skilled enoth to be there in the first place but some wanted to explore other areas of the game. The first week we where there everybody lost their ships: 2 battlecruisers and 2 battleships... My battleship was the only one that did'nt got popped lol. Less skilled players that where there from my corp where confined in the station waiting for corp members to show up or from other corps to join up. These where mostly europeans and in that alliance we where a minority of north american with them. At 8 pm I was one of the few players in that sector and most of the nights in that alliance of 800 players I was gaming alone as most of these guys logged off around 6 to 8 pm. I team up with a guy that had 20 mil skills points as I had 6 mil skill points. The only solid thing I could do with him was to hunt some npc pirates in the asteroid belts. The more heavyer complex in the surrounding I could'nt remotly think doing and we would of needed more players there to do them in gang of players.
In 0.0 space I was doing lvl 1 missions with an npc pirate agent still skilling my learnings skills after 7 month in the game. Out of every 10 missions 7 of them where to kill drones...
Anyway this is beside the point.
From theory to practice you have some problems on how you can effectively cooperate with others and what you can do in the game.
You pointed out a solution to that problem and that would be to modify the skilling time curve. As you get in the game you learn fast and this slows down to a point where you catch up with other to participate on equivalent level where you can get into the different mods that the game offers.
I have no clue on how this would be done. For me getting another character skilled again as the game is setted up right now is totally out of the question. For others that want to join the game you are looking at some long skills to get into.
Some days before going in 0.0 one night I was alone and started talking to guy that was in my sector to team up and mine togheter.
He had 3 accounts and his main character was getting over 20 mil skills points... He was'nt interested in mining with me as would of splitted his ore with an unskilled character (6 mil... remember). So I told him basically we could never play togheter. He agreed with me and he said that this did'nt meant I did'nt had good ideas too in the game. As of mining with other characters less skilled then me was the same problem that guy had with me.
The skilling system creates barriers between players. I wish it would of been other wise really from all my hart. But it's just not the case. Eve is great game on paper but when it comes to playing the game it becomes a very intricate puzzle to solve.
One solution would be to modify the skilling time curve to enable players to play on an equivalent basis. Donno if that will ever be one day thaugh.
ive been playing EVE for awhile....my wife actually works for them (CCP)
I have several friends who started recently and is having a blast...no, you do not need to wait forever to have a fun and action-packed career in EVE I know this from first hand experience.
This game is really for mature players and die-hard strategists and has a lot to do with economics, strategy, and friendly bantering
Hey, some people will not like the game, but I have to admit it's one of the most mature mmorpgs Ive played and it is def. one of the best sci fi mmorpgs ive ever played
For a company with only 11 people when they produced EVE, I am completley in awe and amazement. I want to see any one get 11 people together and pull off something like this.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
These forums exist so that people can learn/discuss about topics and events of specific MMO's that are available on the market, if you like to whine and talk about how baddly you were wronged by people when you tried to explain your dilema, get an appointment with a shrink, that's what they are there for. Again, please, just go away. Thank you for reading and not replying even though you probably will just to further annoy me and extend this useless argument further.
Now this is exactly what I said earlyer by a trend in eve that peeps fall into. Since my first post I never attacked somoene personnally and wont.
I dont know who gave you dominion in this forum to say to people that dont think like you should leave.
I stayed in the topic thread that this guy hitted a wall in skills and acknoleged that this happened to too and closed my accounts.
As of saying I need a shrink or else his unwarrented.
I still think that the skilling system in eve is a dillemma. If you dont like my posts talk about it without disrespectfull allusions. I respect you like the skilling system as it is eve. I dont.
Quoting me from A to Z or spamming this forum is not really a good idea.
Very sad stuff what you are doing. Please stay inline with the forum thread.
Originally posted by En1Gma ive been playing EVE for awhile....my wife actually works for them (CCP) I have several friends who started recently and is having a blast...no, you do not need to wait forever to have a fun and action-packed career in EVE I know this from first hand experience. This game is really for mature players and die-hard strategists and has a lot to do with economics, strategy, and friendly bantering Hey, some people will not like the game, but I have to admit it's one of the most mature mmorpgs Ive played and it is def. one of the best sci fi mmorpgs ive ever played For a company with only 11 people when they produced EVE, I am completley in awe and amazement. I want to see any one get 11 people together and pull off something like this.
Now your wife works for CCP, I cant remotly think you can be objective about the game. I would'nt be if I was implicated at that personnal level in the company (this is not a criticism).
Now I can name some people that wherent impressed whith eve. I was amazed for a while and my level of fun got down slowly as I progressed in the game.
As of the game itself I did quite honestly point out great things about it and some really some flaws about it.
As of the number of peeps that work at CCP I have no clue.
Concerning this thread I tryed, inline with my personnal experience to stick with what that guy said. If you, as an admin of this site want me stop posting I will. You can even delete what I wrote but what I pointed out as been said elsewhere.
When I stopped playing eve I got back in my old clan of players and most play WOW and I got back to 1st shooters while something good come along for something different then eve online.
Just tryed Battlefield 2 and was impressed with the ingame vocal communication they have. EA Games created a milestone with this new game and some decent efforts where made to make 1st shotters less solo/online/who shoot first kinda of game.
I love strategy games. In 1994 I was playing V for Victory long before online games where on the market. Played that small game for a while back then.
I looked at Mankind and they dont have 14 day trials. Maybe they will. Somebody told me they had big problems these days.
If anybody has anything good as some decent replacement to eve online I am all ears lol. But for now it seems there isnt any replacements to eve online.
I have been playing Eve for over a year now and treuthfuly i am geting tierd of the nerfs that are introduced in the game with every patch .
From playing both on the live server and test server , the developers always prmise good stuff to come out and then you end up with a ship being turned to scrap metal ( it happent to the scorpion battleship and to an amar cruiser ) .
Skills should be based both on game mechanics and on time that way players that play more often should have an edge ove those who AFK train for monts . Not to mention new tech have a ridiculos skill requierment , and its very hard to keep up to training ( not talking about players that want to be jaks of all trades ) .
The game gets focused too much onm corporation playing and allmost all new stuff is added in 0.0 sectors , witch are mostly locked down .
Althog Eve is a great game , both strategy / and economical symulator , this game will have the same faith as Earth and Beyond if CCP keeps taking the game in this direction , i heard a large number of players talking about quiting , and it has become very hard for new players to start up without joining a coorporation .
Botom line is that in EVE there is no new stuff coming in without some old stuff being nerfed .
The last nerf I can think of was on pulse lasers which really ticked me off since it happened like a week after I trained up for medium pulse II's but, hey, they we're slighty over-powered and are now back in-line with the rest of the pack.
As for promising good stuff, well, they've never promised anything really, they just let us know what they are working on and everything that is tried out on the test server is eventually added in game. As for the scorpion being scrap metal, I have no idea what game you've been playing, it has become even more infamous since the last EW overhaul. A good scorpion pilot can easily keep 3-4 battleships jammed at a time, pre-overhaul you were lucky to get 2 to guys jammed.
As for skill training, they tried to introduce bonuses for people who play more often (like getting 1 SP everytime you shoot something like you got with UO way back when) however, there were too many people who started using bots to get an unfair advantage so they took it out of the game within a few months. As for keeping up with training well, I have no idea what your talking about lol. My main character IS a jack of all trades, but, I limited him to only flying Amarr ships and I have him flying assault ships, soon in interceptors and covert ops and also have medium energy weapon specialization. This character is less than 7 months olds. I don't find it hard at all to keep up, if I really wanted to, I could get my guy up to using mega pulse II's and tachyon II's, would take me less than a month of training from where I am to using the strongest energy weapons in game, wouldn't call that "hard to do" imo.
As for focus of corporations and alliances, that is what CCP stated they wanted to do and it is working very well. If you don't like playing with other people, what are you doing in a MMORPG ? too many games now focus on the solo aspect and EVE is trying to have an edge on the market by pushing group play which will probably be even further pushed once they release the next major patch. As for being locked down, I wouldn't say that. 0.0 space is seeing alot more conflict in the past few months and it is not between 0.0 alliances that are simply ticked off at each other, there are alot of small corporations (30-50) people that are trying to claim small regions of space from larger groups and are willing to fight for them.
People also talk about leaving, same with all games, really not new to EVE, alot of people said Exodus would kill the game but hey, supscriptions went up by several thousand, who'd of figured ? As for new players having a hard time, I don't see how you come up with that. Mineral prices are at an all time high, so newbie miners can make themselves good ISK simply by mining in high security systems. Same goes for running mission agents and trading goods in empire.
As for no new stuff, well, the POS's, Stealth Bombers, Target Painters and Transport Ships are also recent additions as well as conquerable stations actualy being worth while to capture. Since POS's were added both conquerable and regular empire stations have since in increase in services available, I wouldn't call that a nerf at all. Stealth bombers are very tricky to use but can be great support ships if used properly. Target painters gave new players even more options to use to make themselves useful in large fights and transport ships didn't get regular haulers nerfed at all, they simply gave people more options.
Dakilla[666] ~ The Realm ~ Level 1000 enchanter (retired) Maranthoric ~ La 4ieme Prophetie ~ Level 160 (5x) HE/Feu (de retour) Leonthoric[DDC] ~ EVE online ~ <Fire The "Laser"> (retired)
As a newcomer to EVE I felt inclined to add my little newbie bit to this discussion.
I started just yesterday. Everything was awesome. The graphics, the tutorial, the community support, and the -CHOICES-. Never had I seen many choices, and I believe I have played over...twenty, 25 maybe MMOGs.
This was most cool to me. I definately noticed that it was going to take me a long time to train things up, but my initial response was, wow look while I am warping through space I am studying!! Most excellent. That is exactly what I would be doing if -I- was in space! Then I realized that I can do it overnight and while sleeping...and I realized that in my vision of the space traveling future...you can study while sleeping (which some people can do already, my good friend aced a Spanish IV final this way). And that was most excellent.
It suddenly occurred to me that this is the game for me. Its in space, my real dream!! Its full of choices, people, and places. It looks and feels good. And completely open-ended.
What more could a little n00b like me want? Well...to be honest not much. Maybe a readable encyclopedia of ships and mods and skills that is -HUGE- so that I can go ahead and read through it so my newly gained skills are more real...
So to end with. The 1h or 20 day time lapse for skill training seems real to me. And I can be doing whatever I want while that happens. Learning fighting, or out mining something, or traveling around the universe checking out all the stars, planets, etc which look oh-so-cool. I can do anything. I don't have to spend 20 days working on mining or flying or anything to acquire skill in it. Which to me is pretty cool...since you don't see people spending 100-200 years trying out chemistry to learn it, now do you? No way. They go through a comprehensive training program and boom they push off into a specialty (which they just might choose) and now we have a new chemist who in a few years might change the world.
EVE online is cool by me. I'm glad its here. I wish I would have found and tried it sooner.
I just thought about something like -5% of skills every month. More or less. And lets say it would start to work after 6 months. So first people should start specialicing on their main profession. Then focus on another stuff, less important, since itll take a little bit more time. Give us 6 months cause at beggining people allways use to try different things, and not allways have very clear which way theyll take.
Apart of that, after 4 or 5 months of playing the game, imo, it isnt as bad as people say. Sure, might be people who doesnt want to group with you (on wich game there is none?). But for sure shall find somebody who does. I just joined a little corp, with some experienced players (1 or 1,5 years playing), and others completely new. And we all are having a lot of fun.
Right...purely subjective Gizmo, you're one of the persons who absolutely don't understand when to shut up, appearentely you did not read throught the guy who tore down your "facts". What he said was supported by logical reasoning, he even included some humor in it to make it a nice read, and he didn't call anything except the obvious a 'fact'.
Now, objectevely, I have my little background story.
I have a 6 month old char with 6 mill sp, can fly the frigs of all races, gallente interceptors and gallente/Caldari cruisers. I have mining lvl5 and specialized in flying the giant dildo aka Thorax. The first 2 weeks, I trained my mining and meanwhile mined omber with my imbucus. Meanwhile I did some agent running and even got into some mining parties which included BS's, I helped a bit with my imbucus and once in a while did a run with my Iteron III when the other guy with the Iteron V couldn't handle the ore...
Mined a lot, after 2 weeks I started training cruisers and getting the money for that. A month into playing I got my thorax, when I discouvered I absolutely lacked all skills to give it some fighting use, luckily, with some mods, thorax can handle 5 miner II's so I continued mining as I learned skills for mwd and cap. After 2 months of playing it was good enough for easy lvl2 agents and I discovered when you had the right agent, it was easy money. I earned about 1-2 million isk a day with the help of some smart merchandising when some agent sent me far away. Learned to know the empire systems economy like a pocket book at those times.
3 months, joined a newly founded corp that was full into negotations to join Norad, who controlled the center Western area at that time. Perfected my PvP skills and I must say, even battles, I was unbeaten because of my armor repair thorax with mwd and blasters. I could take out tier 1 cruisers before they even took down my shield...
4 months, corp got sick and tired of Norad being so slow in handling things, joined pirates and started a rebellion. We actually took down 2 of their stations and for a minute or so I was the proud commander of one of the stations as I had the final hit. Meanwhile I started training frig lvl5 to get to interceptor.
5 months, we started ransoming corps to get some funds and moved to Minmatar space as we waited to be let in CA. Got interceptors up and had a blast, rest of the month I trained other races frigs and caldari cruisers since I felt like I might miss something. Had a steady balance of 11 mill isk to buy a thorax at all times when I lost one. Lost a lot of those.
6 months, quit game because I planned to join WoW with a clan and didn't have funds to sustain 2 mmorpgs. My last days I got to arkanor grounds and zoomed around some battleships with my taranis before I discovered that the Megatron was instalock...30 jumps to empire space in pod, thank god for all those instas I made when we were at war with Norad. I also was the leader in an event where the Amarr where doing some illegal business in Caldari space, the whole script thing. We got shot down by gms in tech 2 cruisers before those came out . My last action was to try and travel to Jove Space with a dual mwd interceptor...it's still out there somewhere. Wonder if I made it
Btw, I started end of June 2004, same time as you and loads of people I teamed up with had over 12 mill sp. One guy in our corp had 21mill sp...
Purely objective, your statement about older and newer players not being able to team up is absolute BS...fact...I've proven it in only 6 months of playing.
Originally posted by Pieter Right...purely subjective Gizmo, you're one of the persons who absolutely don't understand when to shut up, appearentely you did not read throught the guy who tore down your "facts". What he said was supported by logical reasoning, he even included some humor in it to make it a nice read, and he didn't call anything except the obvious a 'fact'.
Now, objectevely, I have my little background story. I have a 6 month old char with 6 mill sp, can fly the frigs of all races, gallente interceptors and gallente/Caldari cruisers. I have mining lvl5 and specialized in flying the giant dildo aka Thorax. The first 2 weeks, I trained my mining and meanwhile mined omber with my imbucus. Meanwhile I did some agent running and even got into some mining parties which included BS's, I helped a bit with my imbucus and once in a while did a run with my Iteron III when the other guy with the Iteron V couldn't handle the ore... Mined a lot, after 2 weeks I started training cruisers and getting the money for that. A month into playing I got my thorax, when I discouvered I absolutely lacked all skills to give it some fighting use, luckily, with some mods, thorax can handle 5 miner II's so I continued mining as I learned skills for mwd and cap. After 2 months of playing it was good enough for easy lvl2 agents and I discovered when you had the right agent, it was easy money. I earned about 1-2 million isk a day with the help of some smart merchandising when some agent sent me far away. Learned to know the empire systems economy like a pocket book at those times. 3 months, joined a newly founded corp that was full into negotations to join Norad, who controlled the center Western area at that time. Perfected my PvP skills and I must say, even battles, I was unbeaten because of my armor repair thorax with mwd and blasters. I could take out tier 1 cruisers before they even took down my shield... 4 months, corp got sick and tired of Norad being so slow in handling things, joined pirates and started a rebellion. We actually took down 2 of their stations and for a minute or so I was the proud commander of one of the stations as I had the final hit. Meanwhile I started training frig lvl5 to get to interceptor. 5 months, we started ransoming corps to get some funds and moved to Minmatar space as we waited to be let in CA. Got interceptors up and had a blast, rest of the month I trained other races frigs and caldari cruisers since I felt like I might miss something. Had a steady balance of 11 mill isk to buy a thorax at all times when I lost one. Lost a lot of those. 6 months, quit game because I planned to join WoW with a clan and didn't have funds to sustain 2 mmorpgs. My last days I got to arkanor grounds and zoomed around some battleships with my taranis before I discovered that the Megatron was instalock...30 jumps to empire space in pod, thank god for all those instas I made when we were at war with Norad. I also was the leader in an event where the Amarr where doing some illegal business in Caldari space, the whole script thing. We got shot down by gms in tech 2 cruisers before those came out . My last action was to try and travel to Jove Space with a dual mwd interceptor...it's still out there somewhere. Wonder if I made it Btw, I started end of June 2004, same time as you and loads of people I teamed up with had over 12 mill sp. One guy in our corp had 21mill sp... Purely objective, your statement about older and newer players not being able to team up is absolute BS...fact...I've proven it in only 6 months of playing.
Best post I have found in this thread...
Stopt playing eve aswell 2 mounths ago.. but I have been playing from Beta days.. thing has changed ALOT since that time...
Maybe I will return someday, but cant tell when... having a blast in EQ 2 atm
But now the game is taking a change again here in the ending of June ?? Cant wait to see it :D:D
i have 2 acc in eve one with 17.3m sp(allrounder) and one with 7.8m sp(pvp'er)
and i like the way u train skill in eve and not by being online for 24h autoclicking.
for the ppl saying.. new eveplayers will nerver be able to catch up with a high skilled player
dont know the the eve skill syst'm.. cos all skills goes to lvl5 not a endless lvl.
the category of one of the skill types, lets say mechacnic.. 4-5skills in it. so that will be maxed skilled at ~2-3mill sp.. u get it ? so a 20-30mill skill char can do alot yes.. but not use all hes skills the same time.. my pvp char, can beat the C*** out off my allrounder.. anytime!
so its not the overall sp, its the way u from ur char.. there is alot off skills u can jump over as a new player(if u join a corp.. or meet some nice ppl(ask in local(make friends))) refine skills for ex. but it depends on what u will do for a living in eve..
so new players do have a chance..
sry 4 my bad spelling.. iam not a english speaker
hope u understand the word/letters and the meaning of them
Comments
I don't normally do this, but...
>> Fact: the developpers like the way it is right now.
True I guess.
>> Fact: the skill system the way it is creates two kind of players that can hardly cooperate.
Not true. What would a fleet be without tacklers or EW? A dead fleet. You can train a character for those roles in DAYS. Getting PE4/5, hauling, sales etc if that's your thing doesn't take long at all either, a month tops.
>> Fact: some people like the skill system and some dont.
Self evident.
>> Fact: the skills take ages to bring up (this statement come Oveur a developper himself and not me).
Ages to get level 5, yeah. Level 3 or 4 usually takes hours.
>> Fact: there are "loads" of new skills added every month to every months. (if I said other wise I was out there). As of the term "load" this come from TOMB another developper and not me and this refers to the next patch COSMOS and can be applyed to the last patch and EXODUS patch.
"Loads" in one of the big expansions maybe. Loads of new skills for loads of new things.
>> Fact: The list of skills required to play eve is getting longer.
Not really, the only skills "required" is what you start out with. It's what we all played with too. The list of skills you desire might be expanding though. They're not required anymore than everyone is required to have a BS.
>> Fact: New players are faced with a very long list of skills to bring up.
Until what? There's no magic tipping point where you're teh pwn. EVERYONE is looking at the next skill over the horizon. It's just the nature of the beast.
>> Fact: If you start a character today in eve you will need an extensive period of preparation before enjoying the game.
Not really. You can enjoy the game from day 1. I made a PVP support character last month and was having fun with him in hours. Still do. I had fun with my main from day 1 also.
>> Fact: If today you start a character you will have limited interation with the possibilities of the game.
Everyone is has to work with limitations in the game. I can't just swan into any 0.0 area I choose without a very high risk of gankage.
>> Fact: New players quit before having a playable character.
No one has quit before having a playable character. Unless they cancel before creating their first toon. If you don't feel your character is playable then I'm afraid it's all in your head. Rather like someone who's grinding their way through WOW or EQ2 because at the level cap "the fun starts" or whatever.
I really feel you haven't understood the skill system or what it's trying to achieve.
Ok, here are some answers to your "facts" , as you like to call whatever you blurt out a "fact" I can't really keep a rational state of mind very long so, here it is.
gizmo, do everyone a favor and just stop posting here. Seriously, just ... never ... ever ... post another reply or quote or start a new topic in this part of the forums ever again. I've continously tried to have a civil discussion with you but you cannot seem to critically analyze english writing so please, go somewhere else. If you don't want to listen, don't speak up. Personnel opinions are fine and dandy but continously retorking total BS information and trying to pass it off as a valid source to people who might not know any better is extremely damaging to this industry and is exactly the opposite of what this site is here to do.
These forums exist so that people can learn/discuss about topics and events of specific MMO's that are available on the market, if you like to whine and talk about how baddly you were wronged by people when you tried to explain your dilema, get an appointment with a shrink, that's what they are there for.
Again, please, just go away.
Thank you for reading and not replying even though you probably will just to further annoy me and extend this useless argument further.
Edit : Nice reply Sparky, wasen't there when I started writing this, would of saved me some time and effort, oh well, hopefuly he'll get the message this time *shruggs*.
Dakilla[666] ~ The Realm ~ Level 1000 enchanter (retired)
Maranthoric ~ La 4ieme Prophetie ~ Level 160 (5x) HE/Feu (de retour)
Leonthoric[DDC] ~ EVE online ~ <Fire The "Laser"> (retired)
Ahhh finally somehting related to the topic.
I thaught about it.
I am not an expert on the way this could be setted up thaugh. For me the way I tryed to get ahead is to get the advanced learning and the day I quit I had combined those to implants. My arms falled off on my lap when I started calculating how much time still required to get some stuff done in the game.
For me the skilling time to get stuff done in the game got me out of the game. I was in the game for good period of time and was confined in some pretty random stuff. I started in "empire" as all new players. Did le level 1, 2, 3 and in the level 3 missions was at the best agent I could get because for the level 4 missions I did'nt had the skills to do them solo. We where doing in group some level 3 missions and splitting the bounties and reward because most peeps I was with did'nt had the skills to get in level 4 missions.
Our corp got in 0.0 and a couple peeps from our corp got in 0.0. As I thaught most of us wherent skilled enoth to be there in the first place but some wanted to explore other areas of the game. The first week we where there everybody lost their ships: 2 battlecruisers and 2 battleships... My battleship was the only one that did'nt got popped lol. Less skilled players that where there from my corp where confined in the station waiting for corp members to show up or from other corps to join up. These where mostly europeans and in that alliance we where a minority of north american with them. At 8 pm I was one of the few players in that sector and most of the nights in that alliance of 800 players I was gaming alone as most of these guys logged off around 6 to 8 pm. I team up with a guy that had 20 mil skills points as I had 6 mil skill points. The only solid thing I could do with him was to hunt some npc pirates in the asteroid belts. The more heavyer complex in the surrounding I could'nt remotly think doing and we would of needed more players there to do them in gang of players.
In 0.0 space I was doing lvl 1 missions with an npc pirate agent still skilling my learnings skills after 7 month in the game. Out of every 10 missions 7 of them where to kill drones...
Anyway this is beside the point.
From theory to practice you have some problems on how you can effectively cooperate with others and what you can do in the game.
You pointed out a solution to that problem and that would be to modify the skilling time curve. As you get in the game you learn fast and this slows down to a point where you catch up with other to participate on equivalent level where you can get into the different mods that the game offers.
I have no clue on how this would be done. For me getting another character skilled again as the game is setted up right now is totally out of the question. For others that want to join the game you are looking at some long skills to get into.
Some days before going in 0.0 one night I was alone and started talking to guy that was in my sector to team up and mine togheter.
He had 3 accounts and his main character was getting over 20 mil skills points... He was'nt interested in mining with me as would of splitted his ore with an unskilled character (6 mil... remember). So I told him basically we could never play togheter. He agreed with me and he said that this did'nt meant I did'nt had good ideas too in the game. As of mining with other characters less skilled then me was the same problem that guy had with me.
The skilling system creates barriers between players. I wish it would of been other wise really from all my hart. But it's just not the case. Eve is great game on paper but when it comes to playing the game it becomes a very intricate puzzle to solve.
One solution would be to modify the skilling time curve to enable players to play on an equivalent basis. Donno if that will ever be one day thaugh.
Have a nice game.
ive been playing EVE for awhile....my wife actually works for them (CCP)
I have several friends who started recently and is having a blast...no, you do not need to wait forever to have a fun and action-packed career in EVE I know this from first hand experience.
This game is really for mature players and die-hard strategists and has a lot to do with economics, strategy, and friendly bantering
Hey, some people will not like the game, but I have to admit it's one of the most mature mmorpgs Ive played and it is def. one of the best sci fi mmorpgs ive ever played
For a company with only 11 people when they produced EVE, I am completley in awe and amazement. I want to see any one get 11 people together and pull off something like this.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Now this is exactly what I said earlyer by a trend in eve that peeps fall into. Since my first post I never attacked somoene personnally and wont.
I dont know who gave you dominion in this forum to say to people that dont think like you should leave.
I stayed in the topic thread that this guy hitted a wall in skills and acknoleged that this happened to too and closed my accounts.
As of saying I need a shrink or else his unwarrented.
I still think that the skilling system in eve is a dillemma. If you dont like my posts talk about it without disrespectfull allusions. I respect you like the skilling system as it is eve. I dont.
Quoting me from A to Z or spamming this forum is not really a good idea.
Very sad stuff what you are doing. Please stay inline with the forum thread.
Now your wife works for CCP, I cant remotly think you can be objective about the game. I would'nt be if I was implicated at that personnal level in the company (this is not a criticism).
Now I can name some people that wherent impressed whith eve. I was amazed for a while and my level of fun got down slowly as I progressed in the game.
As of the game itself I did quite honestly point out great things about it and some really some flaws about it.
As of the number of peeps that work at CCP I have no clue.
Concerning this thread I tryed, inline with my personnal experience to stick with what that guy said. If you, as an admin of this site want me stop posting I will. You can even delete what I wrote but what I pointed out as been said elsewhere.
When I stopped playing eve I got back in my old clan of players and most play WOW and I got back to 1st shooters while something good come along for something different then eve online.
Just tryed Battlefield 2 and was impressed with the ingame vocal communication they have. EA Games created a milestone with this new game and some decent efforts where made to make 1st shotters less solo/online/who shoot first kinda of game.
I love strategy games. In 1994 I was playing V for Victory long before online games where on the market. Played that small game for a while back then.
I looked at Mankind and they dont have 14 day trials. Maybe they will. Somebody told me they had big problems these days.
If anybody has anything good as some decent replacement to eve online I am all ears lol. But for now it seems there isnt any replacements to eve online.
Hello all
I have been playing Eve for over a year now and treuthfuly i am geting tierd of the nerfs that are introduced in the game with every patch .
From playing both on the live server and test server , the developers always prmise good stuff to come out and then you end up with a ship being turned to scrap metal ( it happent to the scorpion battleship and to an amar cruiser ) .
Skills should be based both on game mechanics and on time that way players that play more often should have an edge ove those who AFK train for monts . Not to mention new tech have a ridiculos skill requierment , and its very hard to keep up to training ( not talking about players that want to be jaks of all trades ) .
The game gets focused too much onm corporation playing and allmost all new stuff is added in 0.0 sectors , witch are mostly locked down .
Althog Eve is a great game , both strategy / and economical symulator , this game will have the same faith as Earth and Beyond if CCP keeps taking the game in this direction , i heard a large number of players talking about quiting , and it has become very hard for new players to start up without joining a coorporation .
Botom line is that in EVE there is no new stuff coming in without some old stuff being nerfed .
The last nerf I can think of was on pulse lasers which really ticked me off since it happened like a week after I trained up for medium pulse II's but, hey, they we're slighty over-powered and are now back in-line with the rest of the pack.
As for promising good stuff, well, they've never promised anything really, they just let us know what they are working on and everything that is tried out on the test server is eventually added in game. As for the scorpion being scrap metal, I have no idea what game you've been playing, it has become even more infamous since the last EW overhaul. A good scorpion pilot can easily keep 3-4 battleships jammed at a time, pre-overhaul you were lucky to get 2 to guys jammed.
As for skill training, they tried to introduce bonuses for people who play more often (like getting 1 SP everytime you shoot something like you got with UO way back when) however, there were too many people who started using bots to get an unfair advantage so they took it out of the game within a few months. As for keeping up with training well, I have no idea what your talking about lol. My main character IS a jack of all trades, but, I limited him to only flying Amarr ships and I have him flying assault ships, soon in interceptors and covert ops and also have medium energy weapon specialization. This character is less than 7 months olds. I don't find it hard at all to keep up, if I really wanted to, I could get my guy up to using mega pulse II's and tachyon II's, would take me less than a month of training from where I am to using the strongest energy weapons in game, wouldn't call that "hard to do" imo.
As for focus of corporations and alliances, that is what CCP stated they wanted to do and it is working very well. If you don't like playing with other people, what are you doing in a MMORPG ? too many games now focus on the solo aspect and EVE is trying to have an edge on the market by pushing group play which will probably be even further pushed once they release the next major patch. As for being locked down, I wouldn't say that. 0.0 space is seeing alot more conflict in the past few months and it is not between 0.0 alliances that are simply ticked off at each other, there are alot of small corporations (30-50) people that are trying to claim small regions of space from larger groups and are willing to fight for them.
People also talk about leaving, same with all games, really not new to EVE, alot of people said Exodus would kill the game but hey, supscriptions went up by several thousand, who'd of figured ? As for new players having a hard time, I don't see how you come up with that. Mineral prices are at an all time high, so newbie miners can make themselves good ISK simply by mining in high security systems. Same goes for running mission agents and trading goods in empire.
As for no new stuff, well, the POS's, Stealth Bombers, Target Painters and Transport Ships are also recent additions as well as conquerable stations actualy being worth while to capture. Since POS's were added both conquerable and regular empire stations have since in increase in services available, I wouldn't call that a nerf at all. Stealth bombers are very tricky to use but can be great support ships if used properly. Target painters gave new players even more options to use to make themselves useful in large fights and transport ships didn't get regular haulers nerfed at all, they simply gave people more options.
Dakilla[666] ~ The Realm ~ Level 1000 enchanter (retired)
Maranthoric ~ La 4ieme Prophetie ~ Level 160 (5x) HE/Feu (de retour)
Leonthoric[DDC] ~ EVE online ~ <Fire The "Laser"> (retired)
As a newcomer to EVE I felt inclined to add my little newbie bit to this discussion.
I started just yesterday. Everything was awesome. The graphics, the tutorial, the community support, and the -CHOICES-. Never had I seen many choices, and I believe I have played over...twenty, 25 maybe MMOGs.
This was most cool to me. I definately noticed that it was going to take me a long time to train things up, but my initial response was, wow look while I am warping through space I am studying!! Most excellent. That is exactly what I would be doing if -I- was in space! Then I realized that I can do it overnight and while sleeping...and I realized that in my vision of the space traveling future...you can study while sleeping (which some people can do already, my good friend aced a Spanish IV final this way). And that was most excellent.
It suddenly occurred to me that this is the game for me. Its in space, my real dream!! Its full of choices, people, and places. It looks and feels good. And completely open-ended.
What more could a little n00b like me want? Well...to be honest not much. Maybe a readable encyclopedia of ships and mods and skills that is -HUGE- so that I can go ahead and read through it so my newly gained skills are more real...
So to end with. The 1h or 20 day time lapse for skill training seems real to me. And I can be doing whatever I want while that happens. Learning fighting, or out mining something, or traveling around the universe checking out all the stars, planets, etc which look oh-so-cool. I can do anything. I don't have to spend 20 days working on mining or flying or anything to acquire skill in it. Which to me is pretty cool...since you don't see people spending 100-200 years trying out chemistry to learn it, now do you? No way. They go through a comprehensive training program and boom they push off into a specialty (which they just might choose) and now we have a new chemist who in a few years might change the world.
EVE online is cool by me. I'm glad its here. I wish I would have found and tried it sooner.
Cassin
Gizmo got my point.
I just thought about something like -5% of skills every month. More or less. And lets say it would start to work after 6 months. So first people should start specialicing on their main profession. Then focus on another stuff, less important, since itll take a little bit more time. Give us 6 months cause at beggining people allways use to try different things, and not allways have very clear which way theyll take.
Apart of that, after 4 or 5 months of playing the game, imo, it isnt as bad as people say. Sure, might be people who doesnt want to group with you (on wich game there is none?). But for sure shall find somebody who does. I just joined a little corp, with some experienced players (1 or 1,5 years playing), and others completely new. And we all are having a lot of fun.
Right...purely subjective Gizmo, you're one of the persons who absolutely don't understand when to shut up, appearentely you did not read throught the guy who tore down your "facts". What he said was supported by logical reasoning, he even included some humor in it to make it a nice read, and he didn't call anything except the obvious a 'fact'.
Now, objectevely, I have my little background story.
I have a 6 month old char with 6 mill sp, can fly the frigs of all races, gallente interceptors and gallente/Caldari cruisers. I have mining lvl5 and specialized in flying the giant dildo aka Thorax. The first 2 weeks, I trained my mining and meanwhile mined omber with my imbucus. Meanwhile I did some agent running and even got into some mining parties which included BS's, I helped a bit with my imbucus and once in a while did a run with my Iteron III when the other guy with the Iteron V couldn't handle the ore...
Mined a lot, after 2 weeks I started training cruisers and getting the money for that. A month into playing I got my thorax, when I discouvered I absolutely lacked all skills to give it some fighting use, luckily, with some mods, thorax can handle 5 miner II's so I continued mining as I learned skills for mwd and cap. After 2 months of playing it was good enough for easy lvl2 agents and I discovered when you had the right agent, it was easy money. I earned about 1-2 million isk a day with the help of some smart merchandising when some agent sent me far away. Learned to know the empire systems economy like a pocket book at those times.
3 months, joined a newly founded corp that was full into negotations to join Norad, who controlled the center Western area at that time. Perfected my PvP skills and I must say, even battles, I was unbeaten because of my armor repair thorax with mwd and blasters. I could take out tier 1 cruisers before they even took down my shield...
4 months, corp got sick and tired of Norad being so slow in handling things, joined pirates and started a rebellion. We actually took down 2 of their stations and for a minute or so I was the proud commander of one of the stations as I had the final hit. Meanwhile I started training frig lvl5 to get to interceptor.
5 months, we started ransoming corps to get some funds and moved to Minmatar space as we waited to be let in CA. Got interceptors up and had a blast, rest of the month I trained other races frigs and caldari cruisers since I felt like I might miss something. Had a steady balance of 11 mill isk to buy a thorax at all times when I lost one. Lost a lot of those.
6 months, quit game because I planned to join WoW with a clan and didn't have funds to sustain 2 mmorpgs. My last days I got to arkanor grounds and zoomed around some battleships with my taranis before I discovered that the Megatron was instalock...30 jumps to empire space in pod, thank god for all those instas I made when we were at war with Norad. I also was the leader in an event where the Amarr where doing some illegal business in Caldari space, the whole script thing. We got shot down by gms in tech 2 cruisers before those came out
. My last action was to try and travel to Jove Space with a dual mwd interceptor...it's still out there somewhere. Wonder if I made it 
Btw, I started end of June 2004, same time as you and loads of people I teamed up with had over 12 mill sp. One guy in our corp had 21mill sp...
Purely objective, your statement about older and newer players not being able to team up is absolute BS...fact...I've proven it in only 6 months of playing.
Best post I have found in this thread...
Stopt playing eve aswell 2 mounths ago.. but I have been playing from Beta days.. thing has changed ALOT since that time...
Maybe I will return someday, but cant tell when... having a blast in EQ 2 atm
But now the game is taking a change again here in the ending of June ?? Cant wait to see it
:D:D
----------------------------
Darkness is my Path
hey autoklikers
played eve ~1year a still doing it
i have 2 acc in eve one with 17.3m sp(allrounder) and one with 7.8m sp(pvp'er)
and i like the way u train skill in eve and not by being online for 24h autoclicking.
for the ppl saying.. new eveplayers will nerver be able to catch up with a high skilled player
dont know the the eve skill syst'm.. cos all skills goes to lvl5 not a endless lvl.
the category of one of the skill types, lets say mechacnic.. 4-5skills in it. so that will be maxed skilled at ~2-3mill sp.. u get it ? so a 20-30mill skill char can do alot yes.. but not use all hes skills the same time.. my pvp char, can beat the C*** out off my allrounder.. anytime!
so its not the overall sp, its the way u from ur char.. there is alot off skills u can jump over as a new player(if u join a corp.. or meet some nice ppl(ask in local(make friends))) refine skills for ex. but it depends on what u will do for a living in eve..
so new players do have a chance..
sry 4 my bad spelling.. iam not a english speaker
hope u understand the word/letters and the meaning of them
/Thug