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Regarding the non-damage shots to tanks.
Vitalis55
Member Posts: 34
Edit: I changed the title of this thread since just because I think it's absurd it doesn't mean anyone else thinks so. At least aside from all the players that have complained about it on the WoT forums.
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Most know about the utterly messed up matchmaking system by now, and then there is the borked spotting code. Hope you won't mind tanks vanishing before your eyes while they are out in the open only to reappear about 5 seconds later. The tank coordinates are not updated in real time but rather every 5 seconds, supposedly.
Now for what the thread is all about. If you intend on playing WoT you better get used to hearing messages like:
"Penetration"
"Critical hit"
"That one went right through"
"That one bounced"
"That's gotta hurt"
These are shots that do not reduce the hit points of the tank you just shot. They may or may not hurt the crew which may or may not affect the performance of the tank. In my experience the percentage of these type of shots used to be about 20-30 percent. Now you will be lucky if it's less than 50%. This is by my experience and judging by the number of complaints about this on the official forums it's the experience for many other players as wel. Doesn't seem to matter where you aim, front, rear, sides, treads, still happens a LOT.
Why the percentage of these shot types is so high now compared to earlier days is anyone's guess. My own personal theory is that they ninja nerfed the percentage to get players to buy more of the non-standard (AP) shells. Either spending gold or credits for this ammo might make a player spend more money to buy more gold. Just my opinion and I have no way to prove it.
Some will read this and assume that I want all the shots to do real damage 100% of the time. There is always someone that will turn it into the extreme opposite of what is stated.
Let me just add something about artillery while I'm at it. Better get used to SPGs that have pinpoint accuracy from miles away. It's like every tank has a GPS tracking signal on it and a spotter can instantly relay the coords back to the SPG, which will in turn drop a round at the exact spot. I have heard that SPGs were nerfed since beta and if thats so I sure wouldn't to step foot on a battlefield before the nerf. It's getting to the point where you can't hardly scratch your nuts without arty shells raining down on you. Hard to have a decent tank dog fight if there is arty still on the other team.
Again, some will respond that we must not like or be able to handle a multidimentional battle. Again taking the extreme opposite view of reality. All you have to do is read in the forums and see in-game chat to realize the vast majority agrees with me.
Anyway, just trying to let you know what to expect in the game if you haven't played it yet. these things may not bother you. You will have to decide for yourself if this is bs or not. Maybe you will enjoy the game regardless. Cheers if you can. As for me, I'm rapidly approaching the point of just quitting the game due to these issues.
Good luck and have fun if you can.
Comments
actually the audio cues just indicate your shot hit the tank, it doesnt actually mean you damaged it at all. just the shot hit. NOW that doesnt mean hearing "that one went right through" it didnt kill a crewmen or damage the tank, just that you fired THAT shot and it hit the tank (or A tank)
i tend to get bored with the high tier tanks. which is why in CB i stopped playing when i "powerleveled" to the DB panzer im quite happy fighting in CB and even now with my M2 light tank.
the only tanks that cause me problem are BT2s and the german gold tanks (cause for tier 1 the gold tanks have highest damage cannon or armor.. in the case of the german. it has the thickest armor out of all basic tanks for their guns)
doesnt mean people wont get pissed off at the game though, i do. and i too hate the spotting but alot of that is based on your radio range. if i move forward and spot the tank, you can see it until i die. even if its hidden by a blade of grass infront of you. one of the annoying little quirks the game has, you can still kill the tank even if its "vanished" provided it hasnt moved.
my self i have killed more then a enough T1's that were spotted then vanished but foolishly didnt relocate after being spotted.
ofcourse the most balanced is the tier 1-2 matches... after that forget it.. anything short of luck will see you outgunned or armored and out ranged to the point you move and die
A good example of the non-damage shots just happened to me.
A heavy tank approaching our flag was down to 7% health and I nailed it 3 times, each shot got the message "critical hit" but no damage to the tank itself, and my gun was a 76mm howitzer. Gotta love it.
Edit: Add one more fight just like the last one. Three shots at about 70m at a heavy; "critical hit", "critical hit", "critical hit",
No hit point loss to the tank. I won't post anymore instances, you get the idea.
The vanishing tank issue I'm mainly talking about is when you have direct LOS to a tank that's out in the open in front of you with no obstructions or terrain variation. You shoot once, hit it, and it vanishes. If the tank looks like it's just sitting there you fire at least once more at that spot where the tank was. Sometimes it's still there and you hit it again, if you don't get one of the messages mentioned. After you take that extra shot or two you better get moving cause the arty shells will probably be on their way to the exact spot you were firing from.
If the tank "in open" is not moving for 3 or more seconds, then camo net and skills are applied, and visibility range is reduced.
The best way to cure your artyphobia is to try to play one. If everything you are saying is true, you will simpy own everyone in every match.
Vitalis55 - After looking over your post history, I've got to wonder why you continue to play the game if it's so bad? I have several friends plus myself playing it and having a really decent time. Especially considering we've spent $0 on it.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Comicazi, maybe the arty I've been matched up with is just that much better than your experiences. True, they don't have a 100% accuracy rate on a stationary target but it's pretty damn good. It's not so much the accuracy I have a problem with but that it's getting damn hard to have a good dogfight between tanks cause of the arty.
An example from last night (and this is not uncommon): Was on Karelia and it came down to just my AT-1 on our team and a M2 light and arty on their side. My only pratical option was to defend since I was already at our base. So I set up and wait for the M2 which I knew would move to one of the spots just inside the circle on the downward slope. I had to wait at the back of our base to avoid arty till the M2 arrived. Sure enough the M2 did exactly as I expected (who wouldn't) so I tried to maneuver to get a shot on him. The second I started to move to get the shot, bam, 1 arty shot, me dead. Right dead center on top of my tank.
Situations like that where it comes down to 1 vs 1 or 1 vs 2, etc. it's fun trying to out maneuver the other tank(s) but if there is a arty on the other side forget it.
Lizardbones, I still play my tier 2 & 3 tanks cause they won't be on the same field with tanks more than 2 tiers higher. Besides it's free and I'm waiting for a couple of other games to release. Also, if you recall everything I wrote I said I wasn't trying to tell anyone they can't have fun with the game, it's all up to the individual. Most of what I post is letting folks know what to expect if they haven't played the game yet. No offense intended towards you persoanlly but they could put tracks on a turd and mount a gun on it and someone somewhere is gonna have fun with it.
All anyone has to do is read the official forums to see that my opinions are shared by a LOT of players. But that doesn't mean we can't find some fun with some part of the game. A lot of people simply stopped playing tier 4 & 5 tanks, so much so that it caused some to question where they all went.
Cheers
No, I am just not playing with AT-1's
Forget everything I said. You are playing entry level tanks and keep complaining about the game imbalance? lol. Good luck with that.
Umm no, this thread was originally about the non-damage producing shots. Read the thread title. If you want to know where I talk about imbalance try the thread titled "Fun through tier 3 then..."
You assume when someone mentions a battle with a certain tier tank then that is the only tank they play.
Good luck with assumptions.
As I have already posted, I play my tier 2 & 3 tanks due the anit-fun of playing my higher tier tanks. I have tanks up to tier 6 and they sit in the garage. My tier 2s & 3s are still provide some entertainment.
Honestly I don't understand your complaints. Non-damage shots? It works both ways, you don't always damage, you are not always damaged. What are you unhappy about? Or do you believe the developers nerfing yourself personally? Same about the imbalance - in one match you are at disadvantage (or more challenge, depending on point of view), next time you have the upper hand. Statistically in a long run it will be balanced. Or again, do you believe you are personally always put on the weaker side?
Speaking about your AT-1 complaint, arty reticle follows scouting tank, slightly ahead actually, and more or less experienced spg driver knows possible hiding spots. The moment you started moving, you broke your camo and a fraction of a second later arty moved already focused reticle (no aiming time) and boom "he is gone, find another target". If you look at the specs, AT-1 has 130 hp with 15mm armor, any arty can one-shot you.
If you want to reply to my comments regarding balance there are other threads on that subject. Now since you stated that I may believe I am personally always put on the weaker side that implies my balance complaints have to do with one team having better tanks than the other. Please provide the quote where I stated my issues have to do with balance between the two teams.
I really don't want to discuss balance in this thread but I would like to clarify your logic (or illogic) of how it statistically is balanced in the long run. An analogy:
You have 2 glasses, a red one and a green one. Whenever someone gives you a cup (8 oz) of water you have to pour 1/4 cup in the red glass and 3/4 cup in the green glass. You then have to pour the glasses into respective barrels. By you logic if this is done enough times the two barrels will eventually have the same amount of water. Assuming of course the barrels are large enough for no overflow. Sorry my friend but this will never happen.
And so will it never happen that the matches will balance out when 90%-95% consistently have tanks 3+ tiers higher than your own.
Moving on...
Please try reading posts a little closer. Again you make an assumption that I, and the hordes of others, believe 100% of the shots should cause tank damage. I would appreciate it very much if you would quote where I said that. Please do.
An example of what I have been actually talking about (and not what you seem to think) that happened a couple of nights ago: Played my M2 medium tank with 75mm howtz in about 15 battles. Not less than 80% of the shots that hit targets procuced the "critical hit" message with no damage to the tank. This is no exaggeration. I guess though by your logic this equates to wanting ALL shots to do damage. Go figure. Now it isn't always 80% but it still happens way too much according to a LOT of players, including myself.
And I guess I will have to spell this out again just for you. It isn't just myself that experiences this but many many others. If you are in the small minority that doesn't experience a high percentage of non-damage shots then it must be great to be you. Or maybe you are in the majority (based on official forums) that does experience this and actually like shooting your gun for no damage. That hardly means that the rest of us are required to feel just the same as you.
Regarding arty. I know exactly how they aim and you just made my whole argument for me by mentioning the fraction of a second after I moved the arty had a bullseye, dead on shot. Now we all know WoT leaves out a lot of reality with tank dynamics but this is pretty much ridiculous. I have no problem with the 1 shot 1 kill factor, I get 1-shotted by many tanks but at least they have to have a LOS on me and aren't looking down in "god" mode from above, and safely from across the map.
This all I'm going to say here about balance and arty. I'm not going to hijack my own thread.
I have no clue what you are trying to say with your glasses analogy. If you are complaining that 95% percent of matches you are 3+ tiers lower than the other tanks, then just buy a tank 3+ tiers higher than your current one and 95% percent of matches you will be at the top of the list. That's of course if you really believe yourself.
If you are consistenly at the bottom, someone should be consistently at the top, correct?
I don't see any evidence of that. Your rant and 15 matches a day in a noob tank can hardly serve as a proof. Yes, there are some non-damage critical hits, I'll just target a different spot. No biggie.
The grass is always greener on the other side. Just try playing arty, I guarantee your endless threads about being killed by scouts, left behind without defence, not able to shoot cheeting freaking fast meds and lights, cowardly heavies hiding behind rocks and walls, stupid suicide spotters, etc.
Life's a bitch, keep struggling, mate.
Ok, last post on the balance issue in this thread.
I'll clarify my analogy. You stated that in the long run it balances out and I agree with you if the balance issues had to do with comparing the tanks on the two teams. However, my issues are not with that but the number of matches that you get put in where there are tanks 3-4 tiers higher than your own. This mainly has to do with tier 4 & 5. Check the WoT forum thread dedicated to this subject, there are crap loads of folks who feel the same way.
My analogy has to do with this and as long as 90%-95% of the matches are this way then it will never balance out in the long run. This is the issue I personally am talking about, not team vs team tanks.
Now about buying a tank 3 tiers higher so that a player doesn't have to deal with this. I can't speak for other folks (except the craploads of others posting the same thing on the mentioned forum) but it would be nice if we could have fun with the tier 4 & 5 tanks while grinding up to the higher tiers. Most people do not have fun when the matches are consistently set up the way they are. In fact, it wouldn't really be a "grind" if it was fun and that is why most players are spending gold to get past those tiers because they hate the tier 4 & 5 matches. Just read the dedicated official thread if you don't want to take my word for it.
If WoT's intention is that they be just a unfun mind numbing grind to the higher tier tanks then just take em out of the game. A game should be fun throughout the journey, not just at the begining and at the end. It's like they set it up this way just so players will spend gold to exchange xp to get past tier 4 & 5 as soon as possible. A bad business model imo.
A challenge is enjoyable some of the time but forcing the players into such a narrow range of tactics in 90% to 95% of the matches is not what I call fun. And as long as the matchmaking system stays the way it is I won't be supporting them with my real money to buy gold to zip past the tiers I should be able to have fun with.
Lastly, you seem intent on referring to my playing the tier 2 & 3 tanks so I'll give you the numbers that I base my experiences on. These are just my tier 4+ tanks:
A20 - 94 battles
Su-85B - 70 battles
T34 - 149 battles
T34-85 - 40 battles
hetzer - 120 battles
Stug III - 34 batles
M3 Lee - 61 battles
Grand total of all my battles is 3282 so I believe this qualifies me to discuss any of the issues.
Cheers and GLHF
You have 3,282 battles played and your highest tier tank is a tier 6...?
Most of your experience earned is per tank...it doesn't apply to other tanks. You do earn global experience, but it accumulates slowly. That said, 3,282 battles is a LOT of battles. :-)
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Really I dont experience anything your talking about..
Vanishing Tank = The tank is motionless, most likely in bushes with a camo net.. poof. That is not an "issue" that is the game.
As for your arty "issues" all I have to say. People that know the map, and the terrain really well = Dont get killed by arty..
People that camp in stupid places and have no clue where the artys would even spawn much less keep it in there head how fast they can travel and where 90% of the arty players go camp at. Yea I wouldnt be suprised that your getting hit with pinpoint arty fire.
And as far as I know a "critical hit" means you hit something "Critical" like a human being inside the tank.. the ammo rack, gas tank or something. That doesnt exactly cause tank "health damage" but is pretty "critical" (just not in a fantasy mmo critical hit way)
Anyways, you can research all this yourself pretty easy.. its only smeared across every forum relating to WoT.. but your choice to uininstall is yours.. since your gripes arent really bugs or issues.. just part of the tactical gameplay
As I have said already, I do get entertainment from playing my Tier 2 & 3 tanks. Anything higher sits in the garage until the matchmaking system is changed. Playing WoT until a couple of other games go live so until then it's pretty much just WoT.
I would like to be playing my other tanks but it is what it is. I may take the SU-85 out a few times though.
When using HE on a tank, its very likely you'll get a "critical hit" even if you don't penetrate or do any HP damage. That's how HE works in the game.
Critical hits are not like D&D or WoW critical hits where you do "normal damage x 3". You damage a critical component. Like a track. Or a view finder. Or a person. So even though they are not "damaging" the tank as far as HP goes, you're still annoying the person
.
Critical hit seems to be said regardless of whether I do HP damage or not. "That shot went right through" up until last night always meant that nothing happened to the tank. I *think* I had one last night that actually did HP damage to a tank, but it could have been another person hitting at the exact same moment.
"That shot bounced" = nothing. Always. "Ricochet" same thing.
"Penetration", "That's gotta hurt", "Another like that should finish them" = I hit them for HP damage.
You guys are reading too much into the messages - and are too eager to associate an event with each message.
You should think of it as a quick assement of what the crew thinks happened, usually they are right but sometimes are not.