Sure they screwed me many years ago. But i have not been a customer at least one that has payed in many years. Not sure what to make of SOE. it's one of those companys that has earned a bad rep for treating customers no different then any other company. all these game companys are bad to customers. all are greedy and don't care.
Nothing new here. it's about making money you are just a demographic. Same with every game company.I don't understand being a "fan" of a game company like some kotor nutcakes are of Bioware.They don't care about you and never will. They start caring when you stop paying.
I don't think SOE can really redeem themselves from all the damage they've done over the years. What they can do though is attempt to work on the mistakes they've made and try to better themselves. Making Planetside 2 good and following through with their plans on Vanguard and improving that would be a good start, but 1 good game isn't enough IMO.
What people have to understand about Soney is their business organization and how it's changing for the better. In the past when EQ was Verant controlled, things were smooth but when they were bought by SOE and absorbed then the suits took over and considering Sony doesn't just make MMO's they also make CD/DvD/Blue Ray, they make TV's they make digital recording equipment, they are into film and make movies, they make toaster and just about everything you can imagine. Thus when it comes to a product the higher ups are blind to what is really taking place, all they see are the bottom lines, the exspenses and profits. This has been SOE's biggest downfall and recently manny of the in house design studios working for SOE have asked to regain their autonomy for building games and surprisingly SOE listened and understood that if they wished to make money they needed to have the parent company stop interfering with the process. The miracle is taking place now as a restructure to allow the design and operation of these games to proceed unhindered by parent company fumbling. The realocation of assets into planetside 2 is a good indication that SOE West Coat will have the skills and talent to drive this project home. The Agency was shelved and various other projects as well to bolster PS2 and EQ3 both being considered SOE Legacy products and and very memerable IPs that were ahead of their time. Now that the official Sony Corp is out of the way in the decsision process their video game branch can go to work without some Executive trying to tweak something for a profit gain.
people act like Sony is the only company ever to screw up or fail, this is not so every company has or will eventually, and to be honest one good game can turn a company around history has proven this, wow did a lot for blizzard, and CCP has done very well with one game (EvE)
If the game is fun, a healthy profit always follows.
Earth and Beyond--the very first successful MMO to go belly-up thanks to the parent company--would like a word with you.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
In my opinion a lot of the anti SOE feeling stem from a relatively brief period of time that they were truly arrogant. This was from about 2003 thru 2005. In this time we saw the launch of SWG, EQII, and the NGE.
Leading up to this period SOE was king of the MMO world and SOE really ran with the concept that players don’t know what they wanted. It was as if they were covering their ears, closing their eyes, shaking their heads, and yelling during the development process to avoid hearing player feedback.
So in 03 SWG launches, they ignore player feedback (from theme parkers) that there isn’t anything to do. In 04 EQII launches and is poorly received cause, surprise, they didn’t listen to the players and competitors did. In 05 they are starting to really get their butt kicked as SWG continues to loose interest and EQII doesn’t live up to expectations. However arrogance dies hard so they take drastic measures to try and fix the problem, but still are not listening to players, and launch a terrible DoF expansion to EQII and the truly infamous NGE update to SWG. Think about it, if you hate SOE, something I just wrote about is probably why.
Since then I think they have been humbled. EQII is a much better game now than it was at launch because they started trying to incorporate the things players want. Free Realms isn't for most of us on this website, but it’s hard to argue it hasn't been anything but successful. DCUO and Vanguard are pretty decent games that the biggest gripes about are the same complaints almost every MMO has at launch (launching to early and not enough content.)
Sure SOE has made good and bad moves since 05, but I argue that the monumental errors of 03-05 shouldn't doom, and could very well improve future releases of PS2 and EQ Next. Because now they realize they have to listen or someone else will.
If the game is fun, a healthy profit always follows.
Earth and Beyond--the very first successful MMO to go belly-up thanks to the parent company--would like a word with you.
Not at all. E&B wasn't that successful at all. If it was, EA wouldn't have closed it down. Why'd they keep UO instead of E&B? Because UO had 10x the playerbase (224k as of March 2004).
You say SOE made mmos what they are today, too bad the people that did dont work for SOE anymore making them a different company entirely. So in essence they really arent. I doubt PS2 will have any redeeming factor but im still gonna play it.
Old PS1 dev members were brought back in to create PS2, so PS2 is very much in the hands of people of the old SOE and PS1 was one hell of a game to did what it did its time. So I have no doubts what this dev can achieve with today's tech will be mind blowing.
I agree with so many in this post. I have spent over 9 years of my life playing SOE games. EQ1 6 years, EQ2 on and off for a year, Vanguard 2+ years. So I am not going to sit here and bash a company who has made several of the games I have loved. I do however think they have stumbled along the way and made a few bad decisions.
For all the people here who believe that SOE is in it only for the money. Well for starters Profit isnt a dirty word. I am a business owner myself and if I am doing something that is not profitable I change what it is i am doing to make it profitable, when it comes down to it, regardless if I enjoy the way I am doing something it comes down to money.. However like any business venture, changes can also be risky and have consequences you may not have expected. I will not sit here however and say that SOE and its team of devs have lost their love for gaming and are only in it for the money though, because that is a load of bull. They do have to balance that love of gaming and game creation with being able to maintain profitibility. Anyone that gets mad at them for that has to be a retarded liberal that believes all big business is bad.
Understanding your post, I would like to point out that SOE released an expansion pack for SWG fewer than 2 months before going live with NGE. The expansion included lots of goodies for a profession called Creature Handler. The expansion was not free, BTW. Oh, and NGE removed that profession entirely. That's just ONE example. Sooo... yes, SOE sucks. No matter how many excuses people come up with. It was blatant, dirty, disrespectful and a slap in the face to everyone who cared about them.
As long as Smedley is still in charge I have to say no. It's not just the NGE with SWG it all started with EQ then moved to SWG then the investment in Vanguard and promise that SOE would not have control and the eventual firing of all of Vanguard staff in a parking lot with Brad not even there.
As an MMO forum/community/site I would appreciate more honesty in the reporting. SOE has done a ton more harm to the MMO world than any other company that I can think of. Smedley is the Don King of MMO's.
I suggest waiting to see how the game turns out. There isn't any point in making predictions or guesses as to whether PS2 will add to their credibility, let's face it, thats the issue at hand. Most people who take an interest in gaming news will be wary of trusting SoE with even a box purchase now but for games like this they will still keep track and buy if things aren't sounding too bad at launch as for all their faults they have provided some great games for niche players (whether you like changes made afterwards or not). I'd be surprised if they get many pre-orders though
The question to me is: "Does SoE see PS2 to be the game that will win them 'redemption'?"
If so, does that explains a lot about what's (not) happening in DCUO?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
only way to SOE start to redeem himself is fire smedley and all suits there today and start fresh
This has got to be the most stupid mentality I have ever seen. If it was not for Smedley, Everquest would never have been made. And Everquest is what helped launch this industry. Even the guys at Blizzard said that they never would have made an mmorpg if it was not for Everquest.
Seriously Smedley even said that the NGE for Star Wars Galaxies was a mistake. Everyone just needs to get over it. Its kind of stupid to label a company "bad" over just one game.
Everquest was great game, Everquest 2 is a great game. Planetside was fun. Vanguard was never their game to begin with. But at least SOE added content and made it run smooth. DCUO I can not personally speak for but they seem commited to adding content and improving the game.
I have faith that PS2 will be something special and I can't wait to see what SOE has up their sleeves for Everquest Next.
only way to SOE start to redeem himself is fire smedley and all suits there today and start fresh
This has got to be the most stupid mentality I have ever seen. If it was not for Smedley, Everquest would never have been made. And Everquest is what helped launch this industry. Even the guys at Blizzard said that they never would have made an mmorpg if it was not for Everquest.
Seriously Smedley even said that the NGE for Star Wars Galaxies was a mistake. Everyone just needs to get over it. Its kind of stupid to label a company "bad" over just one game.
Everquest was great game, Everquest 2 is a great game. Planetside was fun. Vanguard was never their game to begin with. But at least SOE added content and made it run smooth. DCUO I can personally speak for but they seem commited to adding content and improving the game.
I have faith that PS2 will be something special and I can't wait to see what SOE has up their sleeves for Everquest Next.
Why is it stupid? Since Smed (and all the people who actually had passion for making games that are no longer employed at SOE) created EQ, what has he done with SOE?
Planetside was ruined at the direct hands of SOE
SWG is filled with prime examples of what not to do with an mmo.
EQ2 is at best a marginal decent game and it is entirely built on canabalizing the work of Brad McQuaid. It has a history filled with drastic design shifts and poor choices that have alienated the majority of its playerbase. This really is the crowning achievement of SOE post Verrant and it has done nothing but steadily decline since release.
Free Realms can't fill one server.
The Matrix, Vanguard both failures, even if just by association.
DCU has died faster that almost any mmo in the history of the genre.
The Agency was killed after five years of work.
Clone wars is a failure. Magic the gathering is a failure.
Everything SOE has touched has ranged from complete failure to disappointment.
All the facebook games, virtual card games, etc are all junk.
SOE totally failed in the Asian market and barely made it a full year.
What exactly has Smed done with SOE that justifies his position? He is litterally driving the company into the ground.
How many more successful IP's does SOE need to fail with before this guy gets the boot? How many more times can people really ask "Is this the game that will redeem SOE?" only to find the same answer. Other than blind hope, what would possibly suggest that this time SOE is going to A) make a great game, not ruin it and C) not piss all over their customers?
The very fact that we have to ask if SOE is going to be redeemed says all that needs to be said about SOE's performance under John Smedley.
Honestly it was just a few days ago that Smed took a hot steaming dump on the DCU players and we are already talking about SOE redeeming itself? SOE would have to want to resolve its issues before there is any chance of redemption and their current actions say they have no intention of doing that.
I love the original Planetside and I look forward to the new Planetside. The matter of who is making the game is of less consequence to me when I have the present understanding that the reasons for me to love the game are still intact.
On a personal basis at least.
Realistically I'd probably have a hard time thinking Hitler could even develop a game, but who knows, the dude may have been a genius at it whenever he wasn't being evil.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
I'm with others, SOE isn't going to redeem themselves without a change in management. Even if this or any other mmo is great at release their track record firmly states that it won't stay that way.
If you're carrying a anti $OE pride with you through Planetside 2's release then I pity the man who voluntarily misses out on a great MMOFPS experience based on proper corporate bias. Here's the trend with alot of people.
Company messes them over - eg [NGE]
Players hate company and boycotts while demanding better service.
Company makes amazing sequel to another great classic
Player still boycotts and misses out.
This is more or less me.
Company messes me over - eg [NGE]
I am pissed and boycott, demanding better service.
Company makes amazing sequel to another great classic
I watch and see if company can get their foot out of their rear and devilar nao!
Gotta live and let die. I get the feeling more people here are all talk when they claim they will completely ignore Planetside 2 based on their prophecy about SOE's future management.
As long as Smedley is still in charge I have to say no. It's not just the NGE with SWG it all started with EQ then moved to SWG then the investment in Vanguard and promise that SOE would not have control and the eventual firing of all of Vanguard staff in a parking lot with Brad not even there.
As an MMO forum/community/site I would appreciate more honesty in the reporting. SOE has done a ton more harm to the MMO world than any other company that I can think of. Smedley is the Don King of MMO's.
Are you implying that Smedley will make Jedi a class to create right away in Planetside 2's character creator?
I still hold their IP, Planetside, above the rest of the crop, Dust 514, firefall, defiance, tribes universe, earthrise, world war 2 online, Mars war, Global Agenda, APB and the rest of the "So called" MMOFPS' that boil down to nothing more than a Cash shopped, Arena Base 16 v 16 lobby match product, which i dare say, SOME of the next so-called mmofps's will continue with their Cash shopped, Arena Base 16 v 16 lobby match product.
Try those games, and then try PS 1 to see a difference in formula and scale.
Not going to sit here waving a I hate SOE flag while ignoring their continued attempt to venture into things that dont involve a wizard robe/ wizard hat and a epic rod of Forsoothe +5.
These 3 games and maybe some of the other ones(not familiar with tribes or Mars wars) aren't out and we have NO full info on how they play yet let alone resigning them to Arena Base 16v 16 lobby matches. So your touting PS1 as better than those loses all credibility.
No it doesn't lose credibility. He said "I still hold", not "Hey this is better for everyone". We already know speculation aside, Planetside 2 will support larger scale battles. That alone is enough to make a preferred mmofps for many.
Actually the only among what he listed that really might be larger in scale than even the original Planetside, would be WWII online, and that mmofps only gets at most 100 online mid day on weekends.
Comments
Sure they screwed me many years ago. But i have not been a customer at least one that has payed in many years. Not sure what to make of SOE. it's one of those companys that has earned a bad rep for treating customers no different then any other company. all these game companys are bad to customers. all are greedy and don't care.
Nothing new here. it's about making money you are just a demographic. Same with every game company.I don't understand being a "fan" of a game company like some kotor nutcakes are of Bioware.They don't care about you and never will. They start caring when you stop paying.
If planetside 2 is good people will play it.
If the game is fun, a healthy profit always follows.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
I don't think SOE can really redeem themselves from all the damage they've done over the years. What they can do though is attempt to work on the mistakes they've made and try to better themselves. Making Planetside 2 good and following through with their plans on Vanguard and improving that would be a good start, but 1 good game isn't enough IMO.
What people have to understand about Soney is their business organization and how it's changing for the better. In the past when EQ was Verant controlled, things were smooth but when they were bought by SOE and absorbed then the suits took over and considering Sony doesn't just make MMO's they also make CD/DvD/Blue Ray, they make TV's they make digital recording equipment, they are into film and make movies, they make toaster and just about everything you can imagine. Thus when it comes to a product the higher ups are blind to what is really taking place, all they see are the bottom lines, the exspenses and profits. This has been SOE's biggest downfall and recently manny of the in house design studios working for SOE have asked to regain their autonomy for building games and surprisingly SOE listened and understood that if they wished to make money they needed to have the parent company stop interfering with the process. The miracle is taking place now as a restructure to allow the design and operation of these games to proceed unhindered by parent company fumbling. The realocation of assets into planetside 2 is a good indication that SOE West Coat will have the skills and talent to drive this project home. The Agency was shelved and various other projects as well to bolster PS2 and EQ3 both being considered SOE Legacy products and and very memerable IPs that were ahead of their time. Now that the official Sony Corp is out of the way in the decsision process their video game branch can go to work without some Executive trying to tweak something for a profit gain.
people act like Sony is the only company ever to screw up or fail, this is not so every company has or will eventually, and to be honest one good game can turn a company around history has proven this, wow did a lot for blizzard, and CCP has done very well with one game (EvE)
Earth and Beyond--the very first successful MMO to go belly-up thanks to the parent company--would like a word with you.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I could list another who wan P2P before became the crap with is today, RFonline, also if you search more you can find a lot more 3 realms fights
In my opinion a lot of the anti SOE feeling stem from a relatively brief period of time that they were truly arrogant. This was from about 2003 thru 2005. In this time we saw the launch of SWG, EQII, and the NGE.
Leading up to this period SOE was king of the MMO world and SOE really ran with the concept that players don’t know what they wanted. It was as if they were covering their ears, closing their eyes, shaking their heads, and yelling during the development process to avoid hearing player feedback.
So in 03 SWG launches, they ignore player feedback (from theme parkers) that there isn’t anything to do. In 04 EQII launches and is poorly received cause, surprise, they didn’t listen to the players and competitors did. In 05 they are starting to really get their butt kicked as SWG continues to loose interest and EQII doesn’t live up to expectations. However arrogance dies hard so they take drastic measures to try and fix the problem, but still are not listening to players, and launch a terrible DoF expansion to EQII and the truly infamous NGE update to SWG. Think about it, if you hate SOE, something I just wrote about is probably why.
Since then I think they have been humbled. EQII is a much better game now than it was at launch because they started trying to incorporate the things players want. Free Realms isn't for most of us on this website, but it’s hard to argue it hasn't been anything but successful. DCUO and Vanguard are pretty decent games that the biggest gripes about are the same complaints almost every MMO has at launch (launching to early and not enough content.)
Sure SOE has made good and bad moves since 05, but I argue that the monumental errors of 03-05 shouldn't doom, and could very well improve future releases of PS2 and EQ Next. Because now they realize they have to listen or someone else will.
Not at all. E&B wasn't that successful at all. If it was, EA wouldn't have closed it down. Why'd they keep UO instead of E&B? Because UO had 10x the playerbase (224k as of March 2004).
When the annoucment was made E&B had 20-25k active players and bleeding. That was a shame even for 2004. You may have strong feelings for it but it was what it was.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
Old PS1 dev members were brought back in to create PS2, so PS2 is very much in the hands of people of the old SOE and PS1 was one hell of a game to did what it did its time. So I have no doubts what this dev can achieve with today's tech will be mind blowing.
Understanding your post, I would like to point out that SOE released an expansion pack for SWG fewer than 2 months before going live with NGE. The expansion included lots of goodies for a profession called Creature Handler. The expansion was not free, BTW. Oh, and NGE removed that profession entirely. That's just ONE example. Sooo... yes, SOE sucks. No matter how many excuses people come up with. It was blatant, dirty, disrespectful and a slap in the face to everyone who cared about them.
three2six
http://www.soundcloud.com/three2six
As long as Smedley is still in charge I have to say no. It's not just the NGE with SWG it all started with EQ then moved to SWG then the investment in Vanguard and promise that SOE would not have control and the eventual firing of all of Vanguard staff in a parking lot with Brad not even there.
As an MMO forum/community/site I would appreciate more honesty in the reporting. SOE has done a ton more harm to the MMO world than any other company that I can think of. Smedley is the Don King of MMO's.
I suggest waiting to see how the game turns out. There isn't any point in making predictions or guesses as to whether PS2 will add to their credibility, let's face it, thats the issue at hand. Most people who take an interest in gaming news will be wary of trusting SoE with even a box purchase now but for games like this they will still keep track and buy if things aren't sounding too bad at launch as for all their faults they have provided some great games for niche players (whether you like changes made afterwards or not). I'd be surprised if they get many pre-orders though
The question to me is: "Does SoE see PS2 to be the game that will win them 'redemption'?"
If so, does that explains a lot about what's (not) happening in DCUO?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
This has got to be the most stupid mentality I have ever seen. If it was not for Smedley, Everquest would never have been made. And Everquest is what helped launch this industry. Even the guys at Blizzard said that they never would have made an mmorpg if it was not for Everquest.
Seriously Smedley even said that the NGE for Star Wars Galaxies was a mistake. Everyone just needs to get over it. Its kind of stupid to label a company "bad" over just one game.
Everquest was great game, Everquest 2 is a great game. Planetside was fun. Vanguard was never their game to begin with. But at least SOE added content and made it run smooth. DCUO I can not personally speak for but they seem commited to adding content and improving the game.
I have faith that PS2 will be something special and I can't wait to see what SOE has up their sleeves for Everquest Next.
Why is it stupid? Since Smed (and all the people who actually had passion for making games that are no longer employed at SOE) created EQ, what has he done with SOE?
Planetside was ruined at the direct hands of SOE
SWG is filled with prime examples of what not to do with an mmo.
EQ2 is at best a marginal decent game and it is entirely built on canabalizing the work of Brad McQuaid. It has a history filled with drastic design shifts and poor choices that have alienated the majority of its playerbase. This really is the crowning achievement of SOE post Verrant and it has done nothing but steadily decline since release.
Free Realms can't fill one server.
The Matrix, Vanguard both failures, even if just by association.
DCU has died faster that almost any mmo in the history of the genre.
The Agency was killed after five years of work.
Clone wars is a failure. Magic the gathering is a failure.
Everything SOE has touched has ranged from complete failure to disappointment.
All the facebook games, virtual card games, etc are all junk.
SOE totally failed in the Asian market and barely made it a full year.
What exactly has Smed done with SOE that justifies his position? He is litterally driving the company into the ground.
How many more successful IP's does SOE need to fail with before this guy gets the boot? How many more times can people really ask "Is this the game that will redeem SOE?" only to find the same answer. Other than blind hope, what would possibly suggest that this time SOE is going to A) make a great game,
not ruin it and C) not piss all over their customers?
The very fact that we have to ask if SOE is going to be redeemed says all that needs to be said about SOE's performance under John Smedley.
Honestly it was just a few days ago that Smed took a hot steaming dump on the DCU players and we are already talking about SOE redeeming itself? SOE would have to want to resolve its issues before there is any chance of redemption and their current actions say they have no intention of doing that.
not sure what else to say except
+1 to the previous poster
SoE needs some dramatic changes.. whether it be in leadership or the leader deciding to pursue a new vision is what remains to be decided.
How to put this from my point of view...ah.
'I wouldn't care if Hitler made the game.'
I love the original Planetside and I look forward to the new Planetside. The matter of who is making the game is of less consequence to me when I have the present understanding that the reasons for me to love the game are still intact.
On a personal basis at least.
Realistically I'd probably have a hard time thinking Hitler could even develop a game, but who knows, the dude may have been a genius at it whenever he wasn't being evil.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Well, the first time Sony made a PS2 it was pretty good, hopefully this PS2 is as well.
Consider this though. Life without S.O.E would be a lot duller around these here parts;)
I'm with others, SOE isn't going to redeem themselves without a change in management. Even if this or any other mmo is great at release their track record firmly states that it won't stay that way.
If you're carrying a anti $OE pride with you through Planetside 2's release then I pity the man who voluntarily misses out on a great MMOFPS experience based on proper corporate bias. Here's the trend with alot of people.
Company messes them over - eg [NGE]
Players hate company and boycotts while demanding better service.
Company makes amazing sequel to another great classic
Player still boycotts and misses out.
This is more or less me.
Company messes me over - eg [NGE]
I am pissed and boycott, demanding better service.
Company makes amazing sequel to another great classic
I watch and see if company can get their foot out of their rear and devilar nao!
Gotta live and let die. I get the feeling more people here are all talk when they claim they will completely ignore Planetside 2 based on their prophecy about SOE's future management.
Are you implying that Smedley will make Jedi a class to create right away in Planetside 2's character creator?
No it doesn't lose credibility. He said "I still hold", not "Hey this is better for everyone". We already know speculation aside, Planetside 2 will support larger scale battles. That alone is enough to make a preferred mmofps for many.
Actually the only among what he listed that really might be larger in scale than even the original Planetside, would be WWII online, and that mmofps only gets at most 100 online mid day on weekends.