Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

The case to support the already announced wipe in Darkfall 2.0

zaffazaffa Member Posts: 81

There is no way that this game can become financially stable again on its current population. There are maybe at best a few hundred actives on both servers now compared to the 10,000 at launch, and estimated 100,000 that actually wanted to try the game. Though a wipe may cause a dent in AV PR department and in AV's subsribers within the current community, a wipe really is the only way to get this game's population back where it needs to be.



At present, the meta game for darkfall is in complete disarray. Very few factions presently exist, the game is painfully depopulated, and any clan who joins the game is completely crushed by the few people in power. These events are the result of massive stagnation within the game, whereby very few "factor" alliances exist. This overcentralization of power ingame not only forces people to fight the same people every day (to the point that people quit the game), but also makes every new face/clan that joins the game an instant target for extermination.



Under a healthy meta game, enough conflict exist among the higher echelons of the game, that lower ranking alliances are able to build up until they are ready to compete. Under DF however, there is not enough competition/decentralization of control among the higher ranking players, and as such, weaker players are constantly under threat of attack.



When low ranking alliances are constantly having to focus more on the the defensive, always knowing they could be wiped out the next day by an alliance they have no hope of defeating, there is little time available for expansion. In other words, clan leaders become disenfranchised with the whole process and just quit. This is where we are now and only by having a fresh server without the possibility of transfers, or just wiping everything flat out, can DF hope to restart its meta game.



Whenever a server is freshly launched, a building phase occurs where players settle across the world, form their clans/alliances, and start building a home. This is argueably the most important part of a game as this is where most of the game's ingame factions will originate. New factions will innevatably be created in the futures as wars and guild politics require, but ultimately, a game sees its biggest surge of meta factions during this time.



Without a wipe, seasoned vets are able to essentially skip the build up phase beyond the acquisition of basic materials for transportation and gear. This means that vets are able to attack newly created alliances right away, well before the alliances are fully functional and with a hugh stat gap to boast.



By having a wipe however, even seasoned vets will have to level characters, thereby extending the buildup phase and also reducing the gap in strength between these "initial" alliances and the vets who were already established before launch.



In otherwords, the point of a wipe is to ultimately lengthen the build up phase, so higher quantity and better organized alliances can be created to power the game's meta game.

image

Comments

  • fiontarfiontar Member UncommonPosts: 3,682

    I definitely agree with your reasoning for a wipe. However, a wipe is completely pointless unless the game design is changed to provide a more level playing field for "round 2". Also, even if the devs somehow learned from all their mistakes and correctly modified the game design, there is no guarantee that a reset would actually attract enough new or returning players to be worth it.

    Darkfall is really the poster child for what happens when a game is designed completely to the tastes of harcore PvP players. Most non-hardcore PvP players avoid the game or are driven from it very quickly. That's the first exodus. Then, the game population is bled dry as the best of the best dominate and all the other would be griefers who don't rise to the top realize they are the ones being griefed and quit.

    It also proves that those that rise to the top will not self regulate. There is no in game benefit to show mercy to those weaker and the vast majority could care less if their actions will eventually kill the game they are dominating.

    Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
    image

  • thinktank001thinktank001 Member UncommonPosts: 2,144

    Without seeing the new game in action it is difficult to say what is the most appropriate action.   If character building is relatively unchanged and just everything else is, then a full wipe is necessary for the game to progess.   I wouldn't be opposed to current subscribers getting a 7 day head start, and past subscribers a 3 day head start.   It would seem like a reasonable compromise to the current population.

     

    A skill cap would be the best option as it would allow veteran players to keep the progression on their current characters, and allow new players to easily catch up.  Banks and the political map could be wiped, and if resources were changed enough to make veteran players learn the game all over, then it would essentially be a fresh start.

  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden Member UncommonPosts: 4,333

    If they keep skill progression (and respect usual MMORPG core mechanics) then after short time, the active player who spends more time in game will again be on top. See experience with NA server..

    If they change skill progression (and change game to FP- shooter style with instant end game char for everyone at day 1)  then wipe is pointless.

    Logic impedes a wipe.

    -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
    $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
    -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

    "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

  • seabeastseabeast Member Posts: 748

    I don't know, "There are maybe at best a few hundred actives on both servers now" DF and AV was warned outright that the way the game was setup for mass gank this would be the end result. Even a complete wipe will not help if in 3 months the severs are back ot a few hundred again and putting bad money ontop of bad will not be a good thing for investors. When a new player can come on and be able to build up without hacks/macs/craks than the population will increase. Until that time when macing is not working...expect insanity. Definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again...expecting different results.

  • LukainLukain Member UncommonPosts: 591

    Its hardcore PVP the Game is Pointless.. was never gonna succed

  • tinuelletinuelle Member UncommonPosts: 363

    Originally posted by Lukain

    Its hardcore PVP the Game is Pointless.. was never gonna succed

    I dont think its the hardcore pvp that is darkfalls problem. Its more that if you join the game and expect to join into the ongoing pvp you are in for a hell of a grind to catch up, and on that ride you will be dominated severely.

    That people have afk grinded and macroed abilities and stats does not help much.

    What darkfall needs is that people can join the game and be somewhat competitive within a short timespan (a few weeks).

    That is impossible as the game is now, and though experienced players might be able to grind a player up quicker, a true noob joining this game and having to learn from the start is most likely in for a though and hard ride. Most just cant take that journey, and I understand them, cause it aint a fun journey either......

    image
  • DarkcrystalDarkcrystal Member UncommonPosts: 963

    Originally posted by Lukain

    Its hardcore PVP the Game is Pointless.. was never gonna succed

    Thats why you guys have games like WOW, we have games like DFO, MO because we enjoy fighting others.  I hate when people say this as its untrue, asheron call, UO where alll hardcore PVP games, yes AC had PVE server, but the PVP one did better and still does better. So saying this is untrue , yes there are less people who like PVP, because people can't handle losing gear, or hurting there ego's..

    Thats common people  need to say its agame I lost some pixels oh well, When I was young I get upset now that i'm an adult I laugh it off and kill others and get there loot, plus these games its easy to replace what you lost, its not like in WOW, where u would lose epic gear and take months to get it back. 

     

     

    My  2 cents.

  • HarkkumHarkkum Member Posts: 180

    Originally posted by Darkcrystal

    Originally posted by Lukain

    Its hardcore PVP the Game is Pointless.. was never gonna succed

    Thats why you guys have games like WOW, we have games like DFO, MO because we enjoy fighting others.  I hate when people say this as its untrue, asheron call, UO where alll hardcore PVP games, yes AC had PVE server, but the PVP one did better and still does better. So saying this is untrue , yes there are less people who like PVP, because people can't handle losing gear, or hurting there ego's..

    Thats common people  need to say its agame I lost some pixels oh well, When I was young I get upset now that i'm an adult I laugh it off and kill others and get there loot, plus these games its easy to replace what you lost, its not like in WOW, where u would lose epic gear and take months to get it back. 

    I think that you are now having some thematical mix-up. PvP in Darkfall is not in any fashion harder, more brutal or anything of the like. The "losing of pixels" you mentioned is rendered pointless in Darkfall as everyone and their niece has a number of sets of similar pixels readily available. Only ones suffering from the alluded hard-coreness of the game are those stepping in later on. If illusions of grandeur based on unquestioned and unparelleled superiority are what makes a game hard-core PvP then it is hard to imagine a reset that could correct this flaw.

  • mrcalhoumrcalhou Member UncommonPosts: 1,444

    It's not the hardcore PvP that's the real problem. It's the lack of stuff. Of all the items and equipment, only a handful are useful everything else is just trash to be thrown away. The skills and spells? Same thing--only some are useful and everyone uses them. Places to go explore? Nonexistent--every place has the same resources. Speaking of resources, there's only a few different kinds. If you want items you need to grind mobs, because they'll drop crap that makes almost no sense, but are necessary for crafting and forget about trading for them--a few people playing together can be so self-sufficient that there's little to no reason to trade outside of your main group of friends and that's before you take into account the lack of rules regulating PvP.

    --------
    "Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"

    The most awesomest after school special T-shirt:
    Front: UNO Chemistry Club
    Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper Member CommonPosts: 2,751

    Originally posted by Harkkum

    Originally posted by Darkcrystal


    Originally posted by Lukain

    Its hardcore PVP the Game is Pointless.. was never gonna succed

    Thats why you guys have games like WOW, we have games like DFO, MO because we enjoy fighting others.  I hate when people say this as its untrue, asheron call, UO where alll hardcore PVP games, yes AC had PVE server, but the PVP one did better and still does better. So saying this is untrue , yes there are less people who like PVP, because people can't handle losing gear, or hurting there ego's..

    Thats common people  need to say its agame I lost some pixels oh well, When I was young I get upset now that i'm an adult I laugh it off and kill others and get there loot, plus these games its easy to replace what you lost, its not like in WOW, where u would lose epic gear and take months to get it back. 

    I think that you are now having some thematical mix-up. PvP in Darkfall is not in any fashion harder, more brutal or anything of the like. The "losing of pixels" you mentioned is rendered pointless in Darkfall as everyone and their niece has a number of sets of similar pixels readily available. Only ones suffering from the alluded hard-coreness of the game are those stepping in later on. If illusions of grandeur based on unquestioned and unparelleled superiority are what makes a game hard-core PvP then it is hard to imagine a reset that could correct this flaw.

    There is a higher level of risk associated with loss, regardless of whether or not people have replacement items is a moot point. Furthermore the fact it is twitch based and not tab target also differentiates it on a skill level in terms of pvp. So yes, it is infact a great deal 'harder' and 'more brutal'.

     

    Regardless of which way you want to cut it and regardless of whether you think people have a superiority complex by stating so, DFO is one of the most "hardcore" pvp mmos on the market.

     

    That in and of itself though is not the reason why it's first incarnation has such low sub numbers. The reason is more down to the length of the grind and the perceived lack of actual sand within the sandbox game world. Oh and the faulty and easily manipulated mechanics.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • thinktank001thinktank001 Member UncommonPosts: 2,144

    Originally posted by mrcalhou

    It's not the hardcore PvP that's the real problem. It's the lack of stuff. Of all the items and equipment, only a handful are useful everything else is just trash to be thrown away. The skills and spells? Same thing--only some are useful and everyone uses them. Places to go explore? Nonexistent--every place has the same resources. Speaking of resources, there's only a few different kinds. If you want items you need to grind mobs, because they'll drop crap that makes almost no sense, but are necessary for crafting and forget about trading for them--a few people playing together can be so self-sufficient that there's little to no reason to trade outside of your main group of friends and that's before you take into account the lack of rules regulating PvP.

     

    I think this post sums up the problem.   Every game mechanic that has been  implemented is done so in the most craptastic way, and sums up to a very poor gaming experience.  Some parts need a complete overhaul (siegeing/character building) and others need tweaking (combat/economy).

  • JakdstripperJakdstripper Member RarePosts: 2,389

    a wipe in this game is nothing but a bandaid on a gangrenous leg.

    the problem with this game is that the endless stat progression doesnt allow for new players to ever catch up to vets. the power gap between nubes and vets it's just too huge with no chance of closing it....ever!  there is no sugar coating it. that is the biggest problem with DF. a wipe will fix things....for a few months, but then you'r right back to square one with the power gap always getting bigger and bigger. so wipe every 6 months?

    nobody wants to get into a game where you will always be handicaped only because you started playing 6 months after the everybody else.

    they just have to scrap the endless stat progression altogether.

  • mrcalhoumrcalhou Member UncommonPosts: 1,444

    Originally posted by Jakdstripper

    a wipe in this game is nothing but a bandaid on a gangrenous leg.

    the problem with this game is that the endless stat progression doesnt allow for new players to ever catch up to vets. the power gap between nubes and vets it's just too huge with no chance of closing it....ever!  there is no sugar coating it. that is the biggest problem with DF. a wipe will fix things....for a few months, but then you'r right back to square one with the power gap always getting bigger and bigger. so wipe every 6 months?

    nobody wants to get into a game where you will always be handicaped only because you started playing 6 months after the everybody else.

    they just have to scrap the endless stat progression altogether.

    This is also a part of it. The game relies too much on grinding skills and most people just don't want to grind to be competitive. Now, I can see why they would do this; it gives people an incentive to keep on subbing. The big problem with this is that this model is "been there, done that." It worked great in the early days, but now people are wanting "more." So instead of trying to keep people subbing by making it necessary to keep a sub going and grinding skills to be competetive, they should instead focus on making alternative methods of progression and offer more in the way of actual content.

    I would suggest they find ways to offer horizontal progression and get away from the vertical progression. Of course people expect to get stronger and more powerful when they play an RPG, but it doesn't have to be so linear. Some would argue that Darkfall already does this; indeed, you can begin to level up new and different skills. The problem in Darkfall is two-fold: first, most of the spells and abilities across the skills lines are functionally identical with only little variations amongst them; the other is that characters aren't hindered in any noticible way by being all things at all times.

    The first problem is something that would be easy to solve if the developers would be a bit more open-minded regarding the nature of what a spell or ability could do. The second problem could be handled (most efficiently for the player in my opinion) by making skill lines be worth so many points apiece, then limit characters to a certain number of points and allow characters to make changes in cities or similiar. This wouldn't "fix" characters from being able to craft anything whenever they want, but crafting could, and should, be handled differently from other game systems.

    --------
    "Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"

    The most awesomest after school special T-shirt:
    Front: UNO Chemistry Club
    Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions

Sign In or Register to comment.