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Does anyone else keep getting disappointed by PvP

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  • nerrollusnerrollus Member Posts: 214


    Originally posted by quentin405

    Originally posted by nerrollus
    I've been searching for a new game lately and I continuously find myself getting kicked in the face by the ridiculous "full loot, open world pvp" garbage


    *wiping tears of laughter from his eyes*

    By kicked in the face you mean repeatedly murdered and looted? :P
    No really.. Anyone who played MMOs before WOW typically likes this kind of PVP, and the latter folks usually don't.

    I dont see your issue.. 95% of all mmos feature carebear handholding PvP.. Just dont play the 3-4 games that have full loot open world pvp..


    All due respect sir, but WTF are you talking about? With the exception of original UO this kind of PvP was NOT the way of things ... I started in on MMO's in 1999 with EQ1. Shadowbane in the first "hard-core" PvP I recall and even then the gear you were wearing was safe.

    This "full loot, screw the new guy" genre seems to be fairly new for an entire game and I can feel it's nothing but a detraction. EQ, AC, etc all had PvP servers, but they still offered PvE servers which were by far the most populated. I don't understand the thinking behind companies today that think going 100% full PvP is a good game. It's been proven many times that the majority just don't want that.

  • Spiritof55Spiritof55 Member Posts: 405

    Originally posted by nerrollus

    I've been searching for a new game lately and I continuously find myself getting kicked in the face by the ridiculous "full loot, open world pvp" garbage.

    I can not, for the life of me, figure out why developers make these games. The niche for it is so small, it's impossible to turn a respectable profit. I've run into three games this week alone that I was ready throw money at until I saw they were this BS PvP full loot garbage.

    Sad panda indeed ....

    Perception is 90% reality.

    The perception is most people want pvp games.  The truth, from what I've read, is most people can tolerate pvp if it isn't full loot and if they can't be continously ganked.

    Pvp games are easy to make.  They lack originality and don't take much creativity.  Its like fulfilling a need but you dont care how you fill that need so everything else falls by the wayside.  Give an addict a needle and he'll sit in his room and stick himself all day....not caring about the outside, not caring about friends, not caring about family.  Give a pvp whore a pvp game and he'll sit and gank all day....not caring about story, how deep the game is, not care about crafting, not care about others (unless they can be ganked).

    Studios can make a pvp game and let the players make their own experience instead of creating a great game.  Let rats run around a maze and fight for the cheese.  Why should we do anything exceptional or original?  This is what the rats want.  This is the reason why multiplayer console maps ALWAYS have the same form of pvp, deathmatch, capture the flag and some form of teamwork mechanic (which includes deathmatch and ctf).  Yeah they'll look different but its all the same. 

    Mmorpg pvp games are console multiplayer maps blown out of proportion with a little pve thrown in to keep them from becoming complete and useless chaos.

  • nerrollusnerrollus Member Posts: 214


    Originally posted by King_Kumquat


    Originally posted by schrollbach
    The full loot is stupid because all you have to do is go farm lowbies and you ruin the game for everyone.

    That never really happened. 
    All people can do is assume.
    There were gank squads for sure. But they could be raided against. Areas of contest were all over really. New / low players could also often band together and form a community and from it give PVP meaning.
    Besides, lowbs never had the good gear. But they'd often cry for help from people who did. 
    It's fun to actually use your brain while playing a MMO.

    Not sure which game you're referring to, but it doesn't really take a gank squad to ruin a game for newbies. One high level out for blood could decimate a newbie area for extended periods of time ... At least until a high level took pitty or a guildy stepped in.

  • nerrollusnerrollus Member Posts: 214


    Originally posted by Spiritof55

    Perception is 90% reality.
    The perception is most people want pvp games.  The truth, from what I've read, is most people can tolerate pvp if it isn't full loot and if they can't be continously ganked.



    That I can agree with. I do love (suck 100%, but love) PvP in the right circumstances. City seiges, large scale PvP where I don't really matter are all great. And who HASN'T thought "Man, if only I was on a PvP server I'd gank that stupid kill stealer."

    The truth is, people want their safety, me included. All I can do is simply bemoan the fact that the games I really thought I'd enjoy ended up being on the complete opposite end of the spectrum.

  • LidaneLidane Member CommonPosts: 2,300

    Originally posted by quentin405

    *wiping tears of laughter from his eyes*

    By kicked in the face you mean repeatedly murdered and looted? :P

    No really.. Anyone who played MMOs before WOW typically likes this kind of PVP, and the latter folks usually don't.

    You mean like the old school tough guys on Rallos Zek back in the pre-WoW days of EQ1 who had macros that allowed them to bag all their armor and gear during a fight, since you only lost equipped items when you died?

    Even back then the PvP players didn't want to lose the items they'd spend ages grinding out. They found ways to avoid losing anything at all, despite the fact that it was an FFA PvP server with player loot.

  • quentin405quentin405 Member Posts: 468

    Originally posted by Lidane

    Originally posted by quentin405

    *wiping tears of laughter from his eyes*

    By kicked in the face you mean repeatedly murdered and looted? :P

    No really.. Anyone who played MMOs before WOW typically likes this kind of PVP, and the latter folks usually don't.

    You mean like the old school tough guys on Rallos Zek back in the pre-WoW days of EQ1 who had macros that allowed them to bag all their armor and gear during a fight, since you only lost equipped items when you died?

    Even back then the PvP players didn't want to lose the items they'd spend ages grinding out. They found ways to avoid losing anything at all, despite the fact that it was an FFA PvP server with player loot.

     Even though I never said in any way shape or form that people liked loosing items... (puzzled look), I was merely stating that wether you like or dont like to loose items... If a game is open world pvp, and you know that when you install it.. why on earth would you take the time to post about a niche genre in the mmo industry, whining and complaining about how it "kicks you in the face"..  And I might have thrown a slight hint of reference to my assumtion that the original poster is probably relatively new to the genre ,only assuming of course by his statement which has been made before by "wow kidzzzzzz"

     

    Anywho..

    image

  • NBlitzNBlitz Member Posts: 1,904

    Originally posted by Axehilt

    I'm never disappointed by PVP nowadays.

    ...because I get it from games like TF2 and LoL, where the entire game is designed to support interesting skill-centric PVP.


    • World PVP systems are all about winning or losing by casual game mechanics (play longer; bring more friends.)

    • Instanced MMORPG PVP systems are only one step above ('play longer' still matters.)

    If you're a serious PVPer seeking pure PVP, skip MMORPG PVP and find some non-MMORPG to play.

    Yes THANK YOU. Everytime I've said that I've been jumped on by some of the players on my server. This happened in several games.

    I don't understand what's the point in PLAYER versus PLAYER if the field is not leveled and all it comes down to is skill.

    Grinding gear just to stay ahead of the competition doesn't make sense to me! It's why I've avoided PvP like the plague in all the MMOs I've played. It always came down to e.g. level/gear>RNG>something else>skill.

  • nerrollusnerrollus Member Posts: 214


    Originally posted by quentin405

     Even though I never said in any way shape or form that people liked loosing items... (puzzled look), I was merely stating that wether you like or dont like to loose items... If a game is open world pvp, and you know that when you install it.. why on earth would you take the time to post about a niche genre in the mmo industry, whining and complaining about how it "kicks you in the face"..  And I might have thrown a slight hint of reference to my assumtion that the original poster is probably relatively new to the genre ,only assuming of course by his statement which has been made before by "wow kidzzzzzz"
     
    Anywho..


    Your'e very much off base and misunderstanding my topic.

    I played Darkfall, fulling understanding that it was full PvP/loot. I thought I could handle it, but I could not. After about three weeks of getting gang raped outside newb town I quit.

    My point here, is that I keep seeing games like Earthrise, Mortal Online, etc that I think would be great games but get completely "kicked in the face" when I realize they're PvP/full loot games like Darkfall. This, of course, completely turns me away from the game.

    I'm simply commenting on the fact that I don't understand why so many developers are catering to such a small minority all of a sudden and killing my hopes of finding a MMO that I enjoy.

  • ironhydraironhydra Member Posts: 31

    Originally posted by nerrollus

     




    Originally posted by quentin405



     Even though I never said in any way shape or form that people liked loosing items... (puzzled look), I was merely stating that wether you like or dont like to loose items... If a game is open world pvp, and you know that when you install it.. why on earth would you take the time to post about a niche genre in the mmo industry, whining and complaining about how it "kicks you in the face"..  And I might have thrown a slight hint of reference to my assumtion that the original poster is probably relatively new to the genre ,only assuming of course by his statement which has been made before by "wow kidzzzzzz"

     

    Anywho..




     



    Your'e very much off base and misunderstanding my topic.

    I played Darkfall, fulling understanding that it was full PvP/loot. I thought I could handle it, but I could not. After about three weeks of getting gang raped outside newb town I quit.

    My point here, is that I keep seeing games like Earthrise, Mortal Online, etc that I think would be great games but get completely "kicked in the face" when I realize they're PvP/full loot games like Darkfall. This, of course, completely turns me away from the game.

    I'm simply commenting on the fact that I don't understand why so many developers are catering to such a small minority all of a sudden and killing my hopes of finding a MMO that I enjoy.

    From what I can tell you want a sandbox MMO with no open PvP or Loot, which defeats the purpose of the sandbox.  Its supposed to be how the players make it.  Darkfall when relased had maybe 5 quests (Maybe more, but I never did them).  It was up to the players to make the quests (An example would be go kill some dude in a certain faction).  In darkfall that would be the quest, but it was definately hard if you wren't in a faction. 

     

    We aren't a small minority either.  If there was a good open world/ free loot MMO out, then it would be full of big named guilds trying to fight over land.  Right now all these games were released well before they were ready and failed because of balance issues.

    image

  • LidaneLidane Member CommonPosts: 2,300

    Originally posted by quentin405

    Originally posted by Lidane


    Originally posted by quentin405

    *wiping tears of laughter from his eyes*

    By kicked in the face you mean repeatedly murdered and looted? :P

    No really.. Anyone who played MMOs before WOW typically likes this kind of PVP, and the latter folks usually don't.

    You mean like the old school tough guys on Rallos Zek back in the pre-WoW days of EQ1 who had macros that allowed them to bag all their armor and gear during a fight, since you only lost equipped items when you died?

    Even back then the PvP players didn't want to lose the items they'd spend ages grinding out. They found ways to avoid losing anything at all, despite the fact that it was an FFA PvP server with player loot.

     Even though I never said in any way shape or form that people liked loosing items... (puzzled look), I was merely stating that wether you like or dont like to loose items... If a game is open world pvp, and you know that when you install it.. why on earth would you take the time to post about a niche genre in the mmo industry, whining and complaining about how it "kicks you in the face"..  And I might have thrown a slight hint of reference to my assumtion that the original poster is probably relatively new to the genre ,only assuming of course by his statement which has been made before by "wow kidzzzzzz"

     

    Anywho..

    The point is, you said that players who played MMOs before WoW typically like the open world, full-loot style of PvP that started this thread. That's demonstrably not true, given how many macros people had back then to unequip and bag all their items so they wouldn't lose them, despite Rallos Zek being FFA PvP + full loot at the time.

    Even in the old school days, people would find ways to circumvent full out PvP, whether that meant denying their killers any items or whatever. No one likes to lose, and back then, when some of those items took ages to grind, people were less inclined to play along.

  • nerrollusnerrollus Member Posts: 214


    Originally posted by ironhydra

    Originally posted by nerrollus
     


    Originally posted by quentin405

     Even though I never said in any way shape or form that people liked loosing items... (puzzled look), I was merely stating that wether you like or dont like to loose items... If a game is open world pvp, and you know that when you install it.. why on earth would you take the time to post about a niche genre in the mmo industry, whining and complaining about how it "kicks you in the face"..  And I might have thrown a slight hint of reference to my assumtion that the original poster is probably relatively new to the genre ,only assuming of course by his statement which has been made before by "wow kidzzzzzz"
     
    Anywho..

     

    Your'e very much off base and misunderstanding my topic.
    I played Darkfall, fulling understanding that it was full PvP/loot. I thought I could handle it, but I could not. After about three weeks of getting gang raped outside newb town I quit.
    My point here, is that I keep seeing games like Earthrise, Mortal Online, etc that I think would be great games but get completely "kicked in the face" when I realize they're PvP/full loot games like Darkfall. This, of course, completely turns me away from the game.
    I'm simply commenting on the fact that I don't understand why so many developers are catering to such a small minority all of a sudden and killing my hopes of finding a MMO that I enjoy.


    From what I can tell you want a sandbox MMO with no open PvP or Loot, which defeats the purpose of the sandbox.  Its supposed to be how the players make it.  Darkfall when relased had maybe 5 quests (Maybe more, but I never did them).  It was up to the players to make the quests (An example would be go kill some dude in a certain faction).  In darkfall that would be the quest, but it was definately hard if you wren't in a faction. 
     
    We aren't a small minority either.  If there was a good open world/ free loot MMO out, then it would be full of big named guilds trying to fight over land.  Right now all these games were released well before they were ready and failed because of balance issues.

    I enjoy the sandbox, but PvP/full loot isn't exclusive to that specific type of game play. For example, I really enjoyed UO post-Trammel (that's the PvE shard right?). Had UO be remodelled in a modern engine such as what you would find in Rift I would write daily fan mail to the developers.

    The voluntary PvP is completely secondary to what I want out of a game. I do enjoy it, but not so much that my decision to play a game rides on it.

  • quentin405quentin405 Member Posts: 468

    Originally posted by nerrollus

     




    Originally posted by quentin405



     Even though I never said in any way shape or form that people liked loosing items... (puzzled look), I was merely stating that wether you like or dont like to loose items... If a game is open world pvp, and you know that when you install it.. why on earth would you take the time to post about a niche genre in the mmo industry, whining and complaining about how it "kicks you in the face"..  And I might have thrown a slight hint of reference to my assumtion that the original poster is probably relatively new to the genre ,only assuming of course by his statement which has been made before by "wow kidzzzzzz"

     

    Anywho..




     



    Your'e very much off base and misunderstanding my topic.

    I played Darkfall, fulling understanding that it was full PvP/loot. I thought I could handle it, but I could not. After about three weeks of getting gang raped outside newb town I quit.

    My point here, is that I keep seeing games like Earthrise, Mortal Online, etc that I think would be great games but get completely "kicked in the face" when I realize they're PvP/full loot games like Darkfall. This, of course, completely turns me away from the game.

    I'm simply commenting on the fact that I don't understand why so many developers are catering to such a small minority all of a sudden and killing my hopes of finding a MMO that I enjoy.

    Well then I partly misunderstood I guess..  Even though you still confuse me, as developers will never cater to small minorities... especially these days, since mmos are purely business.  So perhaps this small minority of niche gamers is getting larger?  I will stick to my guns, that yes, among relatively recent titles there are 3-4 games that I know of offering this.. But if there are that many, and more in development perhaps people (like myself) are bored to death of playing Wow type model games.  I love to gamble in PVP, It really seperates the skilled from the skilless. 

    Don't get me wrong.. im not plugging any current games because Earthrise, darkfall, mortal are all literal crap as far as video games are concerned.  There are free mods based on existing engines that far outshine any of those 3 games.

     

    I guess it boils down to, the more people that complain about the "hardcore" niche of gamers that seems to be growing, the less likely it is that market research will lead developers to create games catering to these few and far between MMO players.  And that there are countless titles of varying quality for you to choose from, and many many titles recently released and in devlopement that I could not understand your desire to come and post your OP.  /shrug

    image

  • quentin405quentin405 Member Posts: 468

    Originally posted by Lidane

    Originally posted by quentin405


    Originally posted by Lidane


    Originally posted by quentin405

    *wiping tears of laughter from his eyes*

    By kicked in the face you mean repeatedly murdered and looted? :P

    No really.. Anyone who played MMOs before WOW typically likes this kind of PVP, and the latter folks usually don't.

    You mean like the old school tough guys on Rallos Zek back in the pre-WoW days of EQ1 who had macros that allowed them to bag all their armor and gear during a fight, since you only lost equipped items when you died?

    Even back then the PvP players didn't want to lose the items they'd spend ages grinding out. They found ways to avoid losing anything at all, despite the fact that it was an FFA PvP server with player loot.

     Even though I never said in any way shape or form that people liked loosing items... (puzzled look), I was merely stating that wether you like or dont like to loose items... If a game is open world pvp, and you know that when you install it.. why on earth would you take the time to post about a niche genre in the mmo industry, whining and complaining about how it "kicks you in the face"..  And I might have thrown a slight hint of reference to my assumtion that the original poster is probably relatively new to the genre ,only assuming of course by his statement which has been made before by "wow kidzzzzzz"

     

    Anywho..

    The point is, you said that players who played MMOs before WoW typically like the open world, full-loot style of PvP that started this thread. That's demonstrably not true, given how many macros people had back then to unequip and bag all their items so they wouldn't lose them, despite Rallos Zek being FFA PvP + full loot at the time.

    Even in the old school days, people would find ways to circumvent full out PvP, whether that meant denying their killers any items or whatever. No one likes to lose, and back then, when some of those items took ages to grind, people were less inclined to play along.

     The point has become that you are a troll, looking to nitpick someones statement to start conflict.  Yes you are right, ages ago maybe 60% of the pvpers in EQ had macros.. That does not in any way change the fact that people that played for years before wow was even an idea, atleast the dozen or so along with a few guilds I still keep in touch with prefer open world PVP with atleast looting 1 item. So, thats my final reply to you Mr/ Mrs FailTroll, as we are completely going off topic of my reply to OP.

    image

  • LaterisLateris Member UncommonPosts: 1,766

    I went back to UT III for my PvP. Simple dodge, point, and fire.  Mouse and keyboard skills required. 

  • quentin405quentin405 Member Posts: 468

    Originally posted by Lateris

    I went back to UT III for my PvP. Simple dodge, point, and fire.  Mouse and keyboard skills required. 

    :-)  Black ops / WoT / BF P4F here..

     

    image

  • nerrollusnerrollus Member Posts: 214


    Originally posted by quentin405

    Well then I partly misunderstood I guess..  Even though you still confuse me, as developers will never cater to small minorities... especially these days, since mmos are purely business.  So perhaps this small minority of niche gamers is getting larger?  I will stick to my guns, that yes, among relatively recent titles there are 3-4 games that I know of offering this.. But if there are that many, and more in development perhaps people (like myself) are bored to death of playing Wow type model games.  I love to gamble in PVP, It really seperates the skilled from the skilless. 
    Don't get me wrong.. im not plugging any current games because Earthrise, darkfall, mortal are all literal crap as far as video games are concerned.  There are free mods based on existing engines that far outshine any of those 3 games.
     
    I guess it boils down to, the more people that complain about the "hardcore" niche of gamers that seems to be growing, the less likely it is that market research will lead developers to create games catering to these few and far between MMO players.  And that there are countless titles of varying quality for you to choose from, and many many titles recently released and in devlopement that I could not understand your desire to come and post your OP.  /shrug


    There's no way I could be wrong about the niche gaming. Pure numbers and fact support that PvE games rule over PvP. I would be willing to explore the fact that PvP games like Darkfall ARE growing, but they're just not at the point where they'd be competitive to the other AAA MMO's that support PvE or both PvE and PvP. As I understand it, games like Darkfall and Earthrise are struggling compared to PvE games on the market. This makes them a niche market caering to those that want that style of gaming.

    What I'm really getting at here, is that there are some games on the market right now that show amazing potential, but cut their own balls off by serving a limited market compared to what's out there. :(


  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309

    I am constantly disappointed by PvP in games.  I keep hoping for a game that will have meaningful PvP that will add to immersion, but all games with any semi-meaningful PvP end up as FFA gankfests that create completely unrealistic worlds where 98% of the population seems to be murdering psychopaths.

     

    The majority of the time, killing another person is wrong and given the chance, most normal human beings would avoid it.  No game has built good enough pvp consequences to facilitate this.  

     

    EVE probably comes closest.

     

    It's realistic that while walking down the street i am "able" to turn around and kill anyone I want.  Having the ability to do it is therefore good for immersion.  It's not realistic that most people are constantly going around and killing everyone around in what are generally portrayed as civilized societies with laws and morals. 

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
    Currently Playing: ESO

  • BarkopoloBarkopolo Member Posts: 46

    Originally posted by nerrollus

    I played Darkfall, fulling understanding that it was full PvP/loot. I thought I could handle it, but I could not. After about three weeks of getting gang raped outside newb town I quit.

    My point here, is that I keep seeing games like Earthrise, Mortal Online, etc that I think would be great games but get completely "kicked in the face" when I realize they're PvP/full loot games like Darkfall. This, of course, completely turns me away from the game.

    Which is fine, those types of games are not for you. However, some of us do enjoy the challenge of learning to survive in those types of situations.

    The main reason, IMO, that people play games like Eve or Darkfall is because you have complete freedom in what you do and how you develop throughout the game. People who want content spoon-fed to them will never like these types of games.

    If you want a good example of what draws us to the sandboxes, watch these Eve Online videos, The Butterfly Effect and Causality.

    "If I'm not enjoying the game from the beginning then why do I need to torture myself to get to "end cap" to see the "real" game? WTF? Why can't the WHOLE GAME BE THE REAL GAME" - TheExplorer
  • quentin405quentin405 Member Posts: 468

    Originally posted by nerrollus

     




    Originally posted by quentin405



    Well then I partly misunderstood I guess..  Even though you still confuse me, as developers will never cater to small minorities... especially these days, since mmos are purely business.  So perhaps this small minority of niche gamers is getting larger?  I will stick to my guns, that yes, among relatively recent titles there are 3-4 games that I know of offering this.. But if there are that many, and more in development perhaps people (like myself) are bored to death of playing Wow type model games.  I love to gamble in PVP, It really seperates the skilled from the skilless. 

    Don't get me wrong.. im not plugging any current games because Earthrise, darkfall, mortal are all literal crap as far as video games are concerned.  There are free mods based on existing engines that far outshine any of those 3 games.

     

    I guess it boils down to, the more people that complain about the "hardcore" niche of gamers that seems to be growing, the less likely it is that market research will lead developers to create games catering to these few and far between MMO players.  And that there are countless titles of varying quality for you to choose from, and many many titles recently released and in devlopement that I could not understand your desire to come and post your OP.  /shrug




     



    There's no way I could be wrong about the niche gaming. Pure numbers and fact support that PvE games rule over PvP. I would be willing to explore the fact that PvP games like Darkfall ARE growing, but they're just not at the point where they'd be competitive to the other AAA MMO's that support PvE or both PvE and PvP. As I understand it, games like Darkfall and Earthrise are struggling compared to PvE games on the market. This makes them a niche market caering to those that want that style of gaming.

    What I'm really getting at here, is that there are some games on the market right now that show amazing potential, but cut their own balls off by serving a limited market compared to what's out there. :(

     

    Very true that they are struggling.. I havent kept up recently with earthrise but I have extensivly played Darkfall/Mortal and yes, they are struggling badly... But not because of lack of interest, ONLY because they are both run by terrible terrible developers..  If you research the numbers that they both pulled in the first few weeks of open beta/release you will see there are quite a few (yes , not near as many as PVE games) people interested in the genre..  I cant speak for earthrise but DF/MO have cut their own balls off by being buggy , barely working games that released in a state of closed beta at best, more like ALPHA versions. 

     

     I have faith that if a large developer took interest and actually created a quality game that was full pvp /partial or full looting, that it would flourish and the numbers would be quite large. (not stating they would be greater then PVE)

     

    But anyway, I doubt that day will come, as the masses of "gamers" want to run their raids, and collect their vanity pets and titles, and complete "achievments" that we will never see a AAA pure PVP title..

     

    One can always hope.

    image

  • King_KumquatKing_Kumquat Member Posts: 492

    Originally posted by nerrollus

     




    Originally posted by King_Kumquat





    Originally posted by schrollbach

    The full loot is stupid because all you have to do is go farm lowbies and you ruin the game for everyone.






    That never really happened. 

    All people can do is assume.

    There were gank squads for sure. But they could be raided against. Areas of contest were all over really. New / low players could also often band together and form a community and from it give PVP meaning.

    Besides, lowbs never had the good gear. But they'd often cry for help from people who did. 

    It's fun to actually use your brain while playing a MMO.




     

    Not sure which game you're referring to, but it doesn't really take a gank squad to ruin a game for newbies. One high level out for blood could decimate a newbie area for extended periods of time ... At least until a high level took pitty or a guildy stepped in.

     

    UO / Shadowbane / Lineage... Quite a few other classic titles.

    All had just as many policing forces as there were random trouble makers.

    I think quest griefers, ninja looters and poor pugs ruin a newbie's experience worse than just getting killed by a higher level player.

    A properly developed title with good group dynamic pvp content could go in the current group of mmo consumers. The market has stagnated and there's a lot of people who missed those early experiences that could get hooked on it.

    The sense of community in those games absolutly smothers anything any pve mmo-lite game has done. WoW included.


    Will develop an original MMORPG title for money.
  • khamul787khamul787 Member UncommonPosts: 193
    Originally posted by nerrollus

    I've been searching for a new game lately and I continuously find myself getting kicked in the face by the ridiculous "full loot, open world pvp" garbage. I can not, for the life of me, figure out why developers make these games. The niche for it is so small, it's impossible to turn a respectable profit. I've run into three games this week alone that I was ready throw money at until I saw they were this BS PvP full loot garbage. Sad panda indeed ....

     

    I'm in the same exact boat as you. I personally prefer to keep my PvP and PvE separate and I don't like losing my equips like that.

    OP, I don't know if you're looking for suggestions for upcoming games, but you may want to look into GW2's WvWvW. It is in a separate but massive world from PvE, there are three servers fighting it out in sieges, and players drop loot, but not their own items. You can fully level and gear up in PvP alone.

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  • BarkopoloBarkopolo Member Posts: 46

    Originally posted by nerrollus

     

    There's no way I could be wrong about the niche gaming. Pure numbers and fact support that PvE games rule over PvP. I would be willing to explore the fact that PvP games like Darkfall ARE growing, but they're just not at the point where they'd be competitive to the other AAA MMO's that support PvE or both PvE and PvP. As I understand it, games like Darkfall and Earthrise are struggling compared to PvE games on the market. This makes them a niche market caering to those that want that style of gaming.

    What I'm really getting at here, is that there are some games on the market right now that show amazing potential, but cut their own balls off by serving a limited market compared to what's out there. :(

    PvE games "rule" over PvP? I didn't know there was a contest. They are completely different types of play styles. The player-bases don't compete with each other. It is moot to compare them at all. I hardly think people like me who enjoy the FFA PvP games will bother with PvE-focused games. The same is true of PvE players. FFA PvP is not their thing.

    If there is one thing I've learned about people who play FFA PvP games, it's that they could care less about attracting the masses. As long as they have a handful of people to play with that supports the game's costs, they are happy. It's the WoW-like game communities that seem to have a burning need for 14 million of their closest friends online with them.

    "If I'm not enjoying the game from the beginning then why do I need to torture myself to get to "end cap" to see the "real" game? WTF? Why can't the WHOLE GAME BE THE REAL GAME" - TheExplorer
  • [RedDragon][RedDragon] Member UncommonPosts: 46

    Best PvP mmorpg is Dark Age of Camelot.:)

  • BelightBelight Member Posts: 73

    Originally posted by nerrollus

     




    Originally posted by King_Kumquat





    Originally posted by schrollbach

    The full loot is stupid because all you have to do is go farm lowbies and you ruin the game for everyone.






    That never really happened. 

    All people can do is assume.

    There were gank squads for sure. But they could be raided against. Areas of contest were all over really. New / low players could also often band together and form a community and from it give PVP meaning.

    Besides, lowbs never had the good gear. But they'd often cry for help from people who did. 

    It's fun to actually use your brain while playing a MMO.




     

    Not sure which game you're referring to, but it doesn't really take a gank squad to ruin a game for newbies. One high level out for blood could decimate a newbie area for extended periods of time ... At least until a high level took pitty or a guildy stepped in.

     

    I'm sorry, but you're obviously not experienced with these types of MMOs. I don't know of any FFA PVP game that has levels... Plus most of them have alignment systems to punish PKers and also have safe zones and guards... The only time you are at risk is when you venture out for bigger rewards, and thus your risk goes up proportionally. Gets some friends and enjoy the rush.

    If the game has a healthy aligment system to punish the bad guys, if they can't carry an unrealistic amount (can only hold some of your gear), and you have proper safe areas, or even temp safe areas, then you'll be just fine with some forethought and planning.

  • BelightBelight Member Posts: 73

    Originally posted by nerrollus

     




    Originally posted by quentin405



    Well then I partly misunderstood I guess..  Even though you still confuse me, as developers will never cater to small minorities... especially these days, since mmos are purely business.  So perhaps this small minority of niche gamers is getting larger?  I will stick to my guns, that yes, among relatively recent titles there are 3-4 games that I know of offering this.. But if there are that many, and more in development perhaps people (like myself) are bored to death of playing Wow type model games.  I love to gamble in PVP, It really seperates the skilled from the skilless. 

    Don't get me wrong.. im not plugging any current games because Earthrise, darkfall, mortal are all literal crap as far as video games are concerned.  There are free mods based on existing engines that far outshine any of those 3 games.

     

    I guess it boils down to, the more people that complain about the "hardcore" niche of gamers that seems to be growing, the less likely it is that market research will lead developers to create games catering to these few and far between MMO players.  And that there are countless titles of varying quality for you to choose from, and many many titles recently released and in devlopement that I could not understand your desire to come and post your OP.  /shrug




     



    There's no way I could be wrong about the niche gaming. Pure numbers and fact support that PvE games rule over PvP. I would be willing to explore the fact that PvP games like Darkfall ARE growing, but they're just not at the point where they'd be competitive to the other AAA MMO's that support PvE or both PvE and PvP. As I understand it, games like Darkfall and Earthrise are struggling compared to PvE games on the market. This makes them a niche market caering to those that want that style of gaming.

    What I'm really getting at here, is that there are some games on the market right now that show amazing potential, but cut their own balls off by serving a limited market compared to what's out there. :(

     

     You really think these games would have more subscribers if they cahnged their PVP rulesets?

    These games are hurting for numbers due to poor development, bugs, lack of marketing, etc. When DFO released people were trampling each other to play it and we had eeeeeepic massive battles and everyone loved it! Then it's flaws started to show and everyone quit (Mainly no skill cap and OP magic)... It had nothing to do with the PVP.

    WoW is so big because it had a big budget development team, and famous IP, 5 year olds can play it, and they advertise on T.V. Oh and most those millions they bost about are Asian accounts.

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