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EVE Online: Devs & CSM Reach Accord on Virtual Goods

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,126

Recently, the leak of an internal memo with regard to the selling of virtual items in the EVE Online 'NeX' store caused an epic stir in the community. As a result, CCP and the Council of Stellar Management held an 'extraordinary' meeting to discuss the issue. The two groups have reached an agreement with regard to virtual goods, namely that only vanity items will be sold.

It is CCP‘s plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.

The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time. The CSM, under NDA, has been presented with CCP‘s plans for continued evolution of the business model and agrees that nothing they saw breaks this principle. CCP has committed to sharing their plans with the CSM on this front on an ongoing basis.

CCP acknowledges that communication surrounding the launch of the virtual goods store should have been better. To address that, we will write up dev blogs that explain the pricing strategy of the NeX store and the price tiering system. We will also communicate that we intend to put the focus on further fleshing out the lower price range and give visual examples of upcoming items.

Read more about the agreement on the EVE Online site.



¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


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Comments

  • AlienShoresAlienShores Member UncommonPosts: 79

    Glad this is cleared up.  Seems like an obvious decision to make in such a competitive game, but now hopefully people can calm down a bit :)

  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,178

    hate to saaaaay....

    Told you so but in all honesty i am glad to see i was right in seeing this as a over-reaction.

    Tawess gaming

    Tawess soapbox

    This have been a good conversation

  • sonoggisonoggi Member Posts: 1,119

    nothing is cleared up...the CSM meeting was a waste of time, and nothing more than a publicity stunt. CCP's language is vague and they did not commit to anything. they have no respect for players, as Hilmar stated in this email: they do not care what players say. but sheep will be sheep.

  • eric_w66eric_w66 Member UncommonPosts: 1,006

    I hadn't read Hilmar's email till I saw the post on the eve website about this meeting. The meeting produced nothing for the players.

    Once I read the head CSM's response and the mention of the email, I went and looked for it. And oh my, that guy (Hilmar) needs to have his head checked. He cost Eve my 2 accounts. Eve had been trying to get rid of me for a couple of years now, and Hilmar finally succeeded. Buy a round of drinks for your dev team Hilmar on the cash you won't be getting from me any longer. It's only a couple hundred bucks or so a year, but its a couple hundred bucks a year I'll have and they won't. And of course, I'll make sure to NOT recommend Eve to everyone I game with.

     

    I was looking forward to the World of Darkness, but alas, CCP has turned out to be a slimier corporation that SOE/EA/Funcom combined.

  • IllyssiaIllyssia Member Posts: 1,524

     

    CCP acknowledges that the reaction following the leaked internal communication could have been handled better. Good communication and trust between CCP and the EVE community has always been a fundamental priority for CCP and will continue to be so.


     


    It isn't an apology to the players.


     


    There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.


     


    But that does leave the door open for non-game breaking items and enhancement


     


    The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time.


     


    This again is a little vague...


     


    CCP acknowledges that communication surrounding the launch of the virtual goods store should have been better.


     


    Again, they don't really think they did anything at all wrong, just bad PR on their part...

  • DatcydeDatcyde Member UncommonPosts: 554

     To me it was like as we get closer to dust next year they will impliment beyond vanity items,

    like they will take chunks oout of us without choping off our heads thats why they didnt say never.

  • Paradigm68Paradigm68 Member UncommonPosts: 890

    I didn't see a commitment to not sell non-vanity items in the cash-shop.  Pretty much the cental point of all the issues and it wasn't addressed.

  • BizkitNLBizkitNL Member RarePosts: 2,514

    Originally posted by Illyssia

     

    CCP acknowledges that the reaction following the leaked internal communication could have been handled better. Good communication and trust between CCP and the EVE community has always been a fundamental priority for CCP and will continue to be so.


     


    1. It isn't an apology to the players.


     


    There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.


     


    2. But that does leave the door open for non-game breaking items and enhancement


     


    The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time.


     


    3. This again is a little vague...


     


    CCP acknowledges that communication surrounding the launch of the virtual goods store should have been better.


     


    4. Again, they don't really think they did anything at all wrong, just bad PR on their part...

    1. The players don't need an apology.

    2. Which is bad because........

    3. It means that a new player can't buy himself into the same position as a 6-year EvE vet.

    4. They are stating that what went down, should have been done better. That's a "we screwed up" in my book, they just choose to word it more mildly.

    10
  • BizkitNLBizkitNL Member RarePosts: 2,514

    Originally posted by Paradigm68

    I didn't see a commitment to not sell non-vanity items in the cash-shop.  Pretty much the cental point of all the issues and it wasn't addressed.

    "It is CCP‘s plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only" isn't enough?

    I think you're being dramatic. You can't possibly believe that a company would promise you anything, lol.

     

    I'lle throw this one in for free as well:

    "Game-affecting Virtual Goods: We are convinced that CCP has no plans to introduce any game-affecting virtual goods, only pure vanity items such as clothing and ship skins. We have been repeatedly assured that there are no plans for ‘gold ammo', ships which have different statistics from existing common hulls, or any other feared ‘game destroying' virtual goods or services. We have expressed our deep concern about potential grey areas that the introduction of virtual goods permits, and CCP has made a commitment to discuss any proposals that might fall into these grey areas in detail with CSM at the earliest possible stage."

    10
  • Several of us @ the office got together at lunch & the topic of eve game up. There are 4 of us @ work who play & each of us has an second account, usually payed by plex.

    It seems everyone was already on their last legs with respect to the continual subsribing. We are all pretty much in the same boat about how tiring, boring & ultimatly unrewarding mmorpgs are, because they never end, & never cease to pluck the equivalent of half your internet bill each month. That said, you can easily get more enjoyment from buying 2 new role playing titles per year for the ps3 for example with your sub money.. At least then you know there is an end, a finish, a goal that can be reached & there is a sense of closure.

     

    Im starting to understand why games are going towards the F2P model, at least then you can pick & choose where your money goes to &  you can justify the expense. (at least from a high level overview) . I think the age of subscribtion based games is coming to an end.

  • BarkopoloBarkopolo Member Posts: 46

    Originally posted by Shadowschild



    Im starting to understand why games are going towards the F2P model, at least then you can pick & choose where your money goes to &  you can justify the expense. (at least from a high level overview) .

    Word of the day: Naive.

    "If I'm not enjoying the game from the beginning then why do I need to torture myself to get to "end cap" to see the "real" game? WTF? Why can't the WHOLE GAME BE THE REAL GAME" - TheExplorer
  • striker09dxstriker09dx Member Posts: 197

    The point of the meeting, I thought, was supposed to be advising the players if there are going to be only vanity item or game changing items in the store.

    To which their reply was "WE HAVE NO PLAN". This is not a "NO  WE ARE NOT GOING TO ADD IT" and more likely "not yet but wait till we get a little bit further down the road".

    This meeting was moot.

  • TerminatusTerminatus Member Posts: 104

    CCP was never great on either apologies or clear explanaitions of it's blunders over the years...

    Devs giving non-available tech stuff to ppl? Devs giving their 0.0 buddy aliances stuff? 0.0 Aliances using refining exploits to fund massive 0.0 fleets to attack smaller aliances? etc, etc, etc...

     

    They sure can make a good looking space game, but their human interactions with the playerbase sux big time :p

  • AethaerynAethaeryn Member RarePosts: 3,054

    Now just clear up the SOE rummor :) 

    Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

  • Paradigm68Paradigm68 Member UncommonPosts: 890

    Originally posted by BizkitNL

    Originally posted by Paradigm68

    I didn't see a commitment to not sell non-vanity items in the cash-shop.  Pretty much the cental point of all the issues and it wasn't addressed.

    "It is CCP‘s plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only" isn't enough?

    I think you're being dramatic. You can't possibly believe that a company would promise you anything, lol.

     

    I'lle throw this one in for free as well:

    "Game-affecting Virtual Goods: We are convinced that CCP has no plans to introduce any game-affecting virtual goods, only pure vanity items such as clothing and ship skins. We have been repeatedly assured that there are no plans for ‘gold ammo', ships which have different statistics from existing common hulls, or any other feared ‘game destroying' virtual goods or services. We have expressed our deep concern about potential grey areas that the introduction of virtual goods permits, and CCP has made a commitment to discuss any proposals that might fall into these grey areas in detail with CSM at the earliest possible stage."

    None of that is a committment to not do it in the future, which is what people said they wanted.  All of that will still be valid and true if they decide to sell skill points, ships, faction rep in the store 6 months down the road with a simple justification of "We came up with a new plan."

    Maybe you think I'm being dramatic but if people were screaming for a committment and they put on a whole production and show of addressing player concerns, but failed to make that one committment while trying to act like they did, am I that out of line for thinking they are reserving the right to sell non-vanity items in the future?

  • jeremyjodesjeremyjodes Member Posts: 679

    If you don't get something in writing a contract or agreement of sorts then these people have no gaurantee they wont add game breaking items. I mean all of us watching you guys get put through this clearly see they are still on track, They need to make money and they sometimes will take the loss of dedicated players to replace you with new players.

    From a personal viewpoint I would really start looking in to the sony rumor.

    And I have been there with SOE treating it's playerbase like numbers instead of someone who loved the game and it's direction. I wish you all well.

    image

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182

    Originally posted by Paradigm68

    None of that is a committment to not do it in the future, which is what people said they wanted.  All of that will still be valid and true if they decide to sell skill points, ships, faction rep in the store 6 months down the road with a simple justification of "We came up with a new plan."

    Maybe you think I'm being dramatic but if people were screaming for a committment and they put on a whole production and show of addressing player concerns, but failed to make that one committment while trying to act like they did, am I that out of line for thinking they are reserving the right to sell non-vanity items in the future?

    This is a business they can't make a commitment like that, it would only fuel ammunition if plans or demographics change. Such a promise would be a death knell, as people such as yourself would use that against them to no end if that time should come. It would tie their hands to ever seeking additional income by an alternative means. You essentially want CCP to sign their business away for your own personal sake, it just ain't gonna happen.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,581

    Originally posted by sonoggi

    nothing is cleared up...the CSM meeting was a waste of time, and nothing more than a publicity stunt. CCP's language is vague and they did not commit to anything. they have no respect for players, as Hilmar stated in this email: they do not care what players say. but sheep will be sheep.

    Comptely wrong!  CCP is one of the most customer responsive developers in the business.  You have to be blind to not see that.

    The entire incident was completely blown out of proportion by forum trolls.

  • Paradigm68Paradigm68 Member UncommonPosts: 890

    Originally posted by Malickie

    Originally posted by Paradigm68



    None of that is a committment to not do it in the future, which is what people said they wanted.  All of that will still be valid and true if they decide to sell skill points, ships, faction rep in the store 6 months down the road with a simple justification of "We came up with a new plan."

    Maybe you think I'm being dramatic but if people were screaming for a committment and they put on a whole production and show of addressing player concerns, but failed to make that one committment while trying to act like they did, am I that out of line for thinking they are reserving the right to sell non-vanity items in the future?

    This is a business they can't make a commitment like that, it would only fuel ammunition if plans or demographics change. Such a promise would be a death knell, as people such as yourself would use that against them to no end if that time should come. It would tie their hands to ever seeking additional income by an alternative means. You essentially want CCP to sign their business away for your own personal sake, it just ain't gonna happen.

    They can, they choose not to. If their intent was to never sell non-vanity items in the game because to do so would fundamentally alter the game's dynamic the could commit to it if they wanted to.

    And if they couldn't commit to it for business reasons, they should state that rather than act like they've addressed the players' issues when they haven't. But even acknowledging that they can't do it for business reasons is also acknowledging that CCP despite their protestations IS reserving the right to sell non-vanity items in the store in the future, which is my ultimate point: The thing most clamored about was not addressed during the CSM/CCP production.

  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,581

    Originally posted by Paradigm68

    Originally posted by BizkitNL


    Originally posted by Paradigm68

    I didn't see a commitment to not sell non-vanity items in the cash-shop.  Pretty much the cental point of all the issues and it wasn't addressed.

    "It is CCP‘s plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only" isn't enough?

    I think you're being dramatic. You can't possibly believe that a company would promise you anything, lol.

     

    I'lle throw this one in for free as well:

    "Game-affecting Virtual Goods: We are convinced that CCP has no plans to introduce any game-affecting virtual goods, only pure vanity items such as clothing and ship skins. We have been repeatedly assured that there are no plans for ‘gold ammo', ships which have different statistics from existing common hulls, or any other feared ‘game destroying' virtual goods or services. We have expressed our deep concern about potential grey areas that the introduction of virtual goods permits, and CCP has made a commitment to discuss any proposals that might fall into these grey areas in detail with CSM at the earliest possible stage."

    None of that is a committment to not do it in the future, which is what people said they wanted.  All of that will still be valid and true if they decide to sell skill points, ships, faction rep in the store 6 months down the road with a simple justification of "We came up with a new plan."

    Maybe you think I'm being dramatic but if people were screaming for a committment and they put on a whole production and show of addressing player concerns, but failed to make that one committment while trying to act like they did, am I that out of line for thinking they are reserving the right to sell non-vanity items in the future?

    What if the world ends tomorrow?  All you are really doing is conjecture and you can project any scenario you want doing that.  Nothing in this world is set in stone, if you could forcast the future you would not be commenting on a game board you would be out making yourself rich.

    IMO just saying they are going to sell only fluff items is good enough for me.  

    As to the Sony rumor, I think Sony has about had it with the video game industry, their past performance has been abysmal.

  • rwmillerrwmiller Member Posts: 472

    Originally posted by Ozmodan

    Originally posted by sonoggi

    nothing is cleared up...the CSM meeting was a waste of time, and nothing more than a publicity stunt. CCP's language is vague and they did not commit to anything. they have no respect for players, as Hilmar stated in this email: they do not care what players say. but sheep will be sheep.

    Comptely wrong!  CCP is one of the most customer responsive developers in the business.  You have to be blind to not see that.

    The entire incident was completely blown out of proportion by forum trolls.

    Umm thousands of forum trolls that logged in blockaded Jita and other systems.

     

    You may not agree with their concerns but CCP has certainly upset a lot of PLAYERS and while they might communicate to their players it is very much a high handed parental style level of communication where they let you know what they think is best for you to know and to not worry your pretty little heads about the details.

     

    CCP respects that their customers might choose to go elsewhere with their hard earned subscription money and time but that is not the same as actually respecting the customers.

  • Paradigm68Paradigm68 Member UncommonPosts: 890

    Originally posted by Ozmodan

    Originally posted by Paradigm68


    Originally posted by BizkitNL


    Originally posted by Paradigm68

    I didn't see a commitment to not sell non-vanity items in the cash-shop.  Pretty much the cental point of all the issues and it wasn't addressed.

    "It is CCP‘s plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only" isn't enough?

    I think you're being dramatic. You can't possibly believe that a company would promise you anything, lol.

     

    I'lle throw this one in for free as well:

    "Game-affecting Virtual Goods: We are convinced that CCP has no plans to introduce any game-affecting virtual goods, only pure vanity items such as clothing and ship skins. We have been repeatedly assured that there are no plans for ‘gold ammo', ships which have different statistics from existing common hulls, or any other feared ‘game destroying' virtual goods or services. We have expressed our deep concern about potential grey areas that the introduction of virtual goods permits, and CCP has made a commitment to discuss any proposals that might fall into these grey areas in detail with CSM at the earliest possible stage."

    None of that is a committment to not do it in the future, which is what people said they wanted.  All of that will still be valid and true if they decide to sell skill points, ships, faction rep in the store 6 months down the road with a simple justification of "We came up with a new plan."

    Maybe you think I'm being dramatic but if people were screaming for a committment and they put on a whole production and show of addressing player concerns, but failed to make that one committment while trying to act like they did, am I that out of line for thinking they are reserving the right to sell non-vanity items in the future?

    What if the world ends tomorrow?  All you are really doing is conjecture and you can project any scenario you want doing that.  Nothing in this world is set in stone, if you could forcast the future you would not be commenting on a game board you would be out making yourself rich.

    IMO just saying they are going to sell only fluff items is good enough for me.  

    As to the Sony rumor, I think Sony has about had it with the video game industry, their past performance has been abysmal.

    Your argument does't hold water because I'm not predicting, I'm acknowledging the possibility. Also CCP does control the world of EvE. They can predict and say it will never happen, but they've chosen not too.  Also they didn't say they are only going to sell fluff items. If they had said that, great. What they said was they have no plan to sell stuff. The meaning of which is very different from: we will not sell stuff.

    And again the whole reason people were upset was not because CCP was selling non-vanity items, but because they thought CCP is going to. CCP has stated that is not in the plans, but has failed to commit to that as a fact of the company's business. So, in the end, nothing changed, CCP might still sell non-vanity items in the future.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182

    Originally posted by Paradigm68

    This is a business they can't make a commitment like that, it would only fuel ammunition if plans or demographics change. Such a promise would be a death knell, as people such as yourself would use that against them to no end if that time should come. It would tie their hands to ever seeking additional income by an alternative means. You essentially want CCP to sign their business away for your own personal sake, it just ain't gonna happen.

    They can, they choose not to. If their intent was to never sell non-vanity items in the game because to do so would fundamentally alter the game's dynamic the could commit to it if they wanted to.

    And if they couldn't commit to it for business reasons, they should state that rather than act like they've addressed the players' issues when they haven't. But even acknowledging that they can't do it for business reasons is also acknowledging that CCP despite their protestations IS reserving the right to sell non-vanity items in the store in the future, which is my ultimate point: The thing most clamored about was not addressed during the CSM/CCP production.

    They won't is my overall point, they can't promise current players anything in terms of where they will be seeking money in two to three years. You're approaching this issue from a perspective of Eve today, and what effects you while you're playing it. CCP approaches this issue from a perspective of EVE now and forever. The business plan in EVE will follow whatever becomes standard for the inustry as a whole, what's acceptable and what's not changes with time. As do demographics in who is seeking out what entertainment.

    You can't expect them to tie their hands on these issues, your concern is EVE, CCP's is the future of EVE and their studio as a whole..

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • KhalathwyrKhalathwyr Member Posts: 3,138

    I hope this is true and that they follow the same road if they just have to have a item store in World of Darkness Online. Being that their last official words for WoD state that they will have "Power items" along with "Cosmetic items" it is still disappointing.

    "Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

    Kickstarter 2 / Naysayers 0

  • ArmaniDevilArmaniDevil Member Posts: 83

    Promises made by corporate lackeys are as frail as 90 year old cancer patients.

    If CCP feels that stat enhancing virtual goods will net revenue without impacting the current playerbase pop, they'll have no qualms about backpedaling.

    They were just testing the waters this time.

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