Considering any item in the lotro store can be obtained purely by playing the game, how is it pay to anything?
LoL any item. What about the special power pots, and special foods. The cooks don't make them neither do the scholars. Now the tomes to drop if your lucky. And what about all the cosmetic items.
Sorry there are lots of things in the store you can not obtain in game.
The power pots and speical foods are very nice. But you don't "need" them. You can take on any encounter without them and still prevail. same without using stat tomes. They do make it easier, I will admit but you can still do without them.
The cosmetic items are cosmetic items. I'd rather have the option to pay to make my character look less foolish than not have the option at all.
The entire point was it that warmaker said was you could find any item that was in the store ingame, that is not true.
I thougth the thread was about whether the game is "pay to win".
and since you earn TP by playign you have access to store items without paying a dime (as was mentioned above).
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
With the recent Eve-fiasco (which I'm still currently playing, just waiting to see what happens) I decided to go back and look at a few other MMOs and see how they're doing. I reinstalled SWG (tear) and literally the next day they announced it's death so I just gave up. While I'm on a long auto-pilot trip in Eve, I decided to log in to LOTRO and check out what's new. I had a 40ish LM and 30 Hunter and I did like it for a while back in the day.
Now, let me first say that I'm not 100 percent opposed to the F2P structure with the cash shop, IF they don't have gameplay items for RL cash. Meaning, I'm all for buying optional content, quest packs and expansions, item slots and other LITTLE things like that. So the first thing I did was check out what the shop was all about. Not only did I see the acceptable products, but then I saw things like an insta-rez, permanent character boosting traits, insta-travel... basically things that put the game on easy-mode if you had the cash. Yes, I know it's not necessary. I know it's optional. That isn't the point. The point where an MMO charges RL money for things that permanently enhance your virtual character is where it becomes P2W. People with deep pockets will have the unfair advantage, not the hardcore player.
I only posted this opinion for responses in case I was wrong and missing something. Like the rest of the P2W models, I'm about to let LOTRO ride off into the sunset and hit the uninstall. Am I missing something, or is it indeed Pay-To-Win?
Yes, it has become Pay To Win, and I see it getting even worse in the future.
Lets start by looking at Stat Tombs. Stat tombs give a permanent +10 to a stat up to five tombs total for +50 per a stat.
your character can recieve up to +50 total permanent stats per a character.
These tombs are almost impossible to obtain by farming, I have farmed for months and have only gotten two tombs that entire time. So the part about being able to get them from droping is almost a mute point.
you can buy these things with a click of a button from the lotro store for 295 points per a tomb.
In order to get +50 permanent stats to Might, Agility, Vitality, Will, and Fate you would have to buy a total of 25 tombs, at 295 turbine points each stat tomb.
Grand total to fully permanently buff your character through the lotro store would be 7375 turbine points. Well over $50 dollars worth of turbine points, and thats considering you buy the 49.99 deal for 6900 points, thats usually once a month.
Or you could farm the tombs yourself, geting 2 tombs every couple of months from farming and running instances nonstop. which woudl max your stats out in aprox. two years or so. Good luck with grinding that out.
The stat tombs bottom line, was to force people to spend insane amounts of points to have increased permanent stats to thier characters. If your characters very own stats are not enough to say the line has been crossed with your wallet book. Where then does the line fall when it comes to a game in the future.
Unless they removed the stat cap on characters and I didnt hear about it, the stat tombs are just designed to supplement any missing stats you may have, which generally is ~10 or so. Between deeds and armor you always sit just around your stat cap, and all the tombs really do is allow you to slot different traits for defence, rather than for stat increase.
My 65 champ is sitting around 20 points off of the Might cap, and I do not have any of the level 65 raid gear. You may want to check again on how many of the tombs you actually need.
With the recent Eve-fiasco (which I'm still currently playing, just waiting to see what happens) I decided to go back and look at a few other MMOs and see how they're doing. I reinstalled SWG (tear) and literally the next day they announced it's death so I just gave up. While I'm on a long auto-pilot trip in Eve, I decided to log in to LOTRO and check out what's new. I had a 40ish LM and 30 Hunter and I did like it for a while back in the day.
Now, let me first say that I'm not 100 percent opposed to the F2P structure with the cash shop, IF they don't have gameplay items for RL cash. Meaning, I'm all for buying optional content, quest packs and expansions, item slots and other LITTLE things like that. So the first thing I did was check out what the shop was all about. Not only did I see the acceptable products, but then I saw things like an insta-rez, permanent character boosting traits, insta-travel... basically things that put the game on easy-mode if you had the cash. Yes, I know it's not necessary. I know it's optional. That isn't the point. The point where an MMO charges RL money for things that permanently enhance your virtual character is where it becomes P2W. People with deep pockets will have the unfair advantage, not the hardcore player.
I only posted this opinion for responses in case I was wrong and missing something. Like the rest of the P2W models, I'm about to let LOTRO ride off into the sunset and hit the uninstall. Am I missing something, or is it indeed Pay-To-Win?
Yes, it has become Pay To Win, and I see it getting even worse in the future.
Lets start by looking at Stat Tombs. Stat tombs give a permanent +10 to a stat up to five tombs total for +50 per a stat.
your character can recieve up to +50 total permanent stats per a character.
These tombs are almost impossible to obtain by farming, I have farmed for months and have only gotten two tombs that entire time. So the part about being able to get them from droping is almost a mute point.
you can buy these things with a click of a button from the lotro store for 295 points per a tomb.
In order to get +50 permanent stats to Might, Agility, Vitality, Will, and Fate you would have to buy a total of 25 tombs, at 295 turbine points each stat tomb.
Grand total to fully permanently buff your character through the lotro store would be 7375 turbine points. Well over $50 dollars worth of turbine points, and thats considering you buy the 49.99 deal for 6900 points, thats usually once a month.
Or you could farm the tombs yourself, geting 2 tombs every couple of months from farming and running instances nonstop. which woudl max your stats out in aprox. two years or so. Good luck with grinding that out.
The stat tombs bottom line, was to force people to spend insane amounts of points to have increased permanent stats to thier characters. If your characters very own stats are not enough to say the line has been crossed with your wallet book. Where then does the line fall when it comes to a game in the future.
I do not see it as pay-to-win. I have no urge to buy any stat tomes (not tombs). With crafted gear as well as quest rewards I can achieve the stat cap with ease.
I don't know if I could consider a game centered almost exclusively on storytelling and PVE P2W of any form, as pay to win would imply you're beating other players with your purchases, rather than AI. Maybe I just have the wrong view of P2W, I guess that would come from my PVP background. Monster-play is hardly something i'd consider a central function to the core of this game. More like a mini game to kill time with and mix things up a little.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Unless they removed the stat cap on characters and I didnt hear about it, the stat tombs are just designed to supplement any missing stats you may have, which generally is ~10 or so. Between deeds and armor you always sit just around your stat cap, and all the tombs really do is allow you to slot different traits for defence, rather than for stat increase.
My 65 champ is sitting around 20 points off of the Might cap, and I do not have any of the level 65 raid gear. You may want to check again on how many of the tombs you actually need.
Yes, the Stat Tombs are there not to raise a stat max cap, but to increase the base stats you have without gear on. It is +10 per a tomb, and all of the stats go up to +50 total (which is a total of five tombs per stat). If you take a class like hunter, with the top gear you can get in game (radience and instance token purchased), without tombs you can just barley max that main stat out, which means that +50 extra stat, out of a max stat cap of 650 goes a long way in freeing up gear for other stats. If you were to take that +50 and throw it into say something like vitality or will, and then add another +50 will or vitality from tombs to that stat, your looking at a total increase of +100 easy to a stat like will or vitality, which is insanly noticable and greatly increases your chances to solo and raid more effectivly.
Comments
I thougth the thread was about whether the game is "pay to win".
and since you earn TP by playign you have access to store items without paying a dime (as was mentioned above).
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Yes, it has become Pay To Win, and I see it getting even worse in the future.
Lets start by looking at Stat Tombs. Stat tombs give a permanent +10 to a stat up to five tombs total for +50 per a stat.
your character can recieve up to +50 total permanent stats per a character.
These tombs are almost impossible to obtain by farming, I have farmed for months and have only gotten two tombs that entire time. So the part about being able to get them from droping is almost a mute point.
you can buy these things with a click of a button from the lotro store for 295 points per a tomb.
In order to get +50 permanent stats to Might, Agility, Vitality, Will, and Fate you would have to buy a total of 25 tombs, at 295 turbine points each stat tomb.
Grand total to fully permanently buff your character through the lotro store would be 7375 turbine points. Well over $50 dollars worth of turbine points, and thats considering you buy the 49.99 deal for 6900 points, thats usually once a month.
Or you could farm the tombs yourself, geting 2 tombs every couple of months from farming and running instances nonstop. which woudl max your stats out in aprox. two years or so. Good luck with grinding that out.
The stat tombs bottom line, was to force people to spend insane amounts of points to have increased permanent stats to thier characters. If your characters very own stats are not enough to say the line has been crossed with your wallet book. Where then does the line fall when it comes to a game in the future.
Unless they removed the stat cap on characters and I didnt hear about it, the stat tombs are just designed to supplement any missing stats you may have, which generally is ~10 or so. Between deeds and armor you always sit just around your stat cap, and all the tombs really do is allow you to slot different traits for defence, rather than for stat increase.
My 65 champ is sitting around 20 points off of the Might cap, and I do not have any of the level 65 raid gear. You may want to check again on how many of the tombs you actually need.
My Guild Wars 2 Vids
I do not see it as pay-to-win. I have no urge to buy any stat tomes (not tombs). With crafted gear as well as quest rewards I can achieve the stat cap with ease.
I don't know if I could consider a game centered almost exclusively on storytelling and PVE P2W of any form, as pay to win would imply you're beating other players with your purchases, rather than AI. Maybe I just have the wrong view of P2W, I guess that would come from my PVP background. Monster-play is hardly something i'd consider a central function to the core of this game. More like a mini game to kill time with and mix things up a little.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yes, the Stat Tombs are there not to raise a stat max cap, but to increase the base stats you have without gear on. It is +10 per a tomb, and all of the stats go up to +50 total (which is a total of five tombs per stat). If you take a class like hunter, with the top gear you can get in game (radience and instance token purchased), without tombs you can just barley max that main stat out, which means that +50 extra stat, out of a max stat cap of 650 goes a long way in freeing up gear for other stats. If you were to take that +50 and throw it into say something like vitality or will, and then add another +50 will or vitality from tombs to that stat, your looking at a total increase of +100 easy to a stat like will or vitality, which is insanly noticable and greatly increases your chances to solo and raid more effectivly.