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EVE Online: Devs Respond to Internal Newsletter Leak & Fan Reaction

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  • DatcydeDatcyde Member UncommonPosts: 564

     It was like a Hitler morale boost memo!

  • KrelianKrelian Member UncommonPosts: 384

    Not reassuring at all.....

    Ever since it was released, i always defended eve. It has always been a little too much hard-core for me, I admit. But it has always been my ''fallback game''. Sort of a game that i could always rely on when i was bored:D Spaceships, politics, customisation, PVP, construction, corps and awesome graphics (and a lot more)

    Eve had it all. I endorsed the INITIAL PLEX sytem when it was released, as i thought i understood the system.

    BUT NOW THIS? Fluff items for uber prices in the ''eve-store'' ? WTF! I swear to god i know where this is going, AND SO DO YOU!

    First its plex, than expensive in-game tshirts and thongs, the next thing we know they are selling us ''skill packs'', ''quafe'' that NEGATES all death penalty, and spaceships with 500 hard points for cannons and the generators etc to boot!

    Ok, surely I was exaggerating, but I hope you get the point.

    Like most of you out there, i have been a royal eve fan for years, but I do not like where the things are headed to now with CCP's new eve ''sellout'' policy.

    THere is an old saying in my language; ''no smoke without fire''. Sure, CCP might cast of these reports just as rumors or thoughts, but they could also be the indicator of what they really want to do in the future.

    Well, I said my peace, and ill be breaking off my eve online subscription for a while to see whats gonna happen..

    Cheers:)

  • ComanComan Member UncommonPosts: 2,171

    Originally posted by Clocksimus



    It's their job to brainstorm ideas that goes so much against what EVE is that it created such a negative reaction?  I dont see the value of that unless it was a list of things to never do and  it was titled instead "Lets not go there."


     

    How would you know where not to go if you do not know where not to go to? One of the key things I learned about programming at my university is not only being able to support why you did something, but maybe even more importently, why you did not do something or did not used a certain something. 

    It is good that a company thinks about this and debates this. I have the feeling that in a lot of companies someone who is about the money one day decides they need more money and a cash shop is the way to go and it needs to be implemented.

    Is this also really against what EvE is? Who decided that? You or CCP? I would say CCP decides that EvE is and what EvE is not. You can either just decide to play what it is or not to play what it is. That users cry out to this and get involved with the discussion is a good thing, but a lot of people seem to be reading a lot more into this then there is.

  • GarkanGarkan Member Posts: 552

    For the people saying,

    "Don't buy the items then or its only vanity items"

    You might not be an EVE player so you are not aware of the other issues, one of those is that CCP obviously intends to sell non vanity items as well which while that would be bad enough we can already see their pricing policy for cash shop items.

    The other major issue is that EVE onlines Incarna is a test bed for World of Darkness, because of this the captains quarters has been forced onto the us the paying customers in what can only be a pre alpha build and comes with the most horrendous optimization issues. Even games like Crysis one ran so much better several years ago than Captains quarters does now and many people are also suffering heating issues because of it.

    Currently playing:

    EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)

    Gravity Rush,
    Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.

    (Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
    Company of Heroes II.

  • OlgarkOlgark Member UncommonPosts: 342

    Originally posted by Faxxer



    whoever leaked the internal memo should be fired.   they caused harm to the company they agreed to work for.


     

    They were staying true to the people who pay their wages, namely us the paying customers who play their game.

    image

  • mklinicmklinic Member UncommonPosts: 1,608

    Originally posted by tawess

    Let me touch on this for a short while... While it stands to reason that this is true Blizzard recently lost 600.000 subscribers and even doing so their income was going up... And the reason for this is the "cash shop". So it is only sound for CCP to aim for this option since they can not count on a steady influx of players witha  game as old as this and the churn will sooner or later dip in to the negative. At this point i guess the question is... Do you rather have A GAME or NO GAME and this seems to be a logical step to try and make the former a goal instead of the later.

    I would almost agree except for the fact that EvE has had pretty steady growth and has done more to expand/redefine it to keep it fresh/current. Also, it had uniqueness where many games follow a very similar design pattern. Now add to that the integration with planned products like Dust, which could have introduced a new audience to EvE, and it seems like the game had plenty of fuel to go for a bit longer. Now the thing I would not dispute is that CCP would like to get more money per player and that, perhaps, they can overcome any sub losses with attractive enough NeX items/prices.

    As far as some of the "get over it/you're dumb" crowd, I suppose a lot of us have been through a significantly unpopular game change (or two) in the past. While I would not put this on the same level as something like the CU/NGE, at least not from a gameplay perspective, the company response and general lack of foresight on the matter certainly seems familiar. A lot of the people who are complaining about this really care about a game they felt a part of and now feel is heading down a path they can't follow. No one likes to feel like they are losing their game. :(

    -mklinic

    "There's a point I think we're missing.
    It's in the air we raise our fists in."
    -from Behind Closed Doors by Rise Against

  • bansanbansan Member Posts: 367

    Something seems off.  You normally slide these things in gradually, pushing the envelope little by little, and not breaking it outright.

    However, one of the most effective strategies (we do it all the time in salary negotiations) is to go way, way higher than what you want, let the other party protest to a fever pitch, and then back off to what you really want.  Allods did that.  They offered bags for sell for about $20 each, let the rage go on for about two weeks, then "reduced the price because we love our players!"  People were "farting rainbows" afterwards, even though they were still paying 3x what the pricing was originally.

    So...my guess is that CCP will let this rage for a while, then give in and lower the prices.  Most of the protesters will go away, feeling that they one-upped CCP, and CCP will get what they want.  Everyone will be happy, except for the small amount of players.

  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Member UncommonPosts: 1,990

    Originally posted by bansan

    Something seems off.  You normally slide these things in gradually, pushing the envelope little by little, and not breaking it outright.

    However, one of the most effective strategies (we do it all the time in salary negotiations) is to go way, way higher than what you want, let the other party protest to a fever pitch, and then back off to what you really want.  Allods did that.  They offered bags for sell for about $20 each, let the rage go on for about two weeks, then "reduced the price because we love our players!"  People were "farting rainbows" afterwards, even though they were still paying 3x what the pricing was originally.

    So...my guess is that CCP will let this rage for a while, then give in and lower the prices.  Most of the protesters will go away, feeling that they one-upped CCP, and CCP will get what they want.  Everyone will be happy, except for the small amount of players.

    Most of the rage that I've seen on the EVE forums isn't the price of the items.  Its the response of the devs to the issue and the fact that (as of late last night) they refuse to say wether or not they plan on putting in non-vanity items.  The last one being the biggest issue.  If they weren't going to put non-vanity items in, there would be no reason not to come out with a strong statement saying "we will not put non-vanity items in our shop."  But they haven't, so that leads one to ask "why not?"  Reading the EVE forums hand these forums have been the best form of mmo intertainment in months.

  • bansanbansan Member Posts: 367

    Originally posted by niceguy3978

    *snip*

    Most of the rage that I've seen on the EVE forums isn't the price of the items.  Its the response of the devs to the issue and the fact that (as of late last night) they refuse to say wether or not they plan on putting in non-vanity items.  The last one being the biggest issue.  If they weren't going to put non-vanity items in, there would be no reason not to come out with a strong statement saying "we will not put non-vanity items in our shop."  But they haven't, so that leads one to ask "why not?"  Reading the EVE forums hand these forums have been the best form of mmo intertainment in months.

     

    That's true, but it is part of the misdirection.  What they really want is people to accept that there will be non-vanity items.  They already tried it by with trying to sell the scorpion outright, but later you have to trade in.  Yeah right.

    So there is no need to ask "Why not?"  They have already made their decision.  They put the ridiculous prices in there as an attempt to steer people's vision away.  When they back off on the prices, they are betting it will "satisfy" alot of people.  Then the non-vanity items will come later to lesser protests.

  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,183

    Originally posted by Olgark



    Originally posted by Faxxer





    whoever leaked the internal memo should be fired.   they caused harm to the company they agreed to work for.






     

    They were staying true to the people who pay their wages, namely us the paying customers who play their game.

    Remind me to never hire you... ever., for any position.

    That is not how it works in the real world... Heck usualy you sign a contract saying you can not do stuff like that.

     

    And as i mentioned before... They can not rely on a steady influx of new players and the churn(that is players leaving for one reason or another) will sooner or later be greater than the people comming in since the game is not exactly spring fresh any more soi they nees to find a alternate solution if they want to keep the game "in the green". Thus they try a cash shop...

     

    So what they infact are trying to do... Even if very few nerdragers seems to understand it is.... Saving the game.

     

    But i guess most of you nay-sayers would rather go down with the ship and ahve it fizzel out.

    Tawess gaming

    Tawess soapbox

    This have been a good conversation

  • killahhkillahh Member UncommonPosts: 443

     the biggest and only issue is the fact that CCP will not make any statement on the matter of introducing items for cost in the game that effect gameplay: ships weapons, implants ect for cash.

    as eve is like the only fully developed mmorpg economy around, it would have a very negative effect on it. iof you a$$hats cannot get a handle mentally on this, then there is no hope for you.

     

    the sandbox cannot work  the way they seem to want it. ie monthly sub + paying for game altering items.

    would be nice to have them make a real statemenmt, not the crap thatsbeen flogged the past couple of days

    over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...

  • ravtecravtec Member Posts: 214

    Originally posted by killahh

     the biggest and only issue is the fact that CCP will not make any statement on the matter of introducing items for cost in the game that effect gameplay: ships weapons, implants ect for cash.

    as eve is like the only fully developed mmorpg economy around, it would have a very negative effect on it. iof you a$$hats cannot get a handle mentally on this, then there is no hope for you.

     

    the sandbox cannot work  the way they seem to want it. ie monthly sub + paying for game altering items.

    would be nice to have them make a real statemenmt, not the crap thatsbeen flogged the past couple of days

    It wont affect gamplay much, people loose ships daily there. The new pople are the only ones that would need to consider buying ships and they are the 1st one to loose em in pvp.

    Vets got the cash and the skill to never needing this in the 1st place, noobs will pay for this and you will go and pick up theyr items shortly after. When they start to relise this they have already spent a great deal cash on the store that will benefit old players as the server is never in any danger to close down.

    What if a noob comes in a raven against an old timer, theyr chance to survive is quite slim as ships are just one of the many tools to get victory in that game.

    Ship builders will see very slight reduced income, not big enuff to impact you but for every 10 ship you sell you might loose 1 costumer to cs. old timers are your bigest income target anyway and those wont buy stuff from cs as they have plenty of isk already.

    One thing is sure CCP needs to do something in the comming years to generate more income then they are today, eve while quite good is an old game and it will only get older.

  • RequiamerRequiamer Member Posts: 2,034

    So they will keep on maintaining their cash shop policy? fare well then.

  • stayontargetstayontarget Member RarePosts: 6,512

    EvE is a nitch game with a limited amount of players it can pull from.  These changes they are planing will cost them half there sub's and there will be nothing to fill that void. 

    Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...

  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Member UncommonPosts: 1,990

    Originally posted by ravtec

    Originally posted by killahh

     the biggest and only issue is the fact that CCP will not make any statement on the matter of introducing items for cost in the game that effect gameplay: ships weapons, implants ect for cash.

    as eve is like the only fully developed mmorpg economy around, it would have a very negative effect on it. iof you a$$hats cannot get a handle mentally on this, then there is no hope for you.

     

    the sandbox cannot work  the way they seem to want it. ie monthly sub + paying for game altering items.

    would be nice to have them make a real statemenmt, not the crap thatsbeen flogged the past couple of days

    It wont affect gamplay much, people loose ships daily there. The new pople are the only ones that would need to consider buying ships and they are the 1st one to loose em in pvp.

    Vets got the cash and the skill to never needing this in the 1st place, noobs will pay for this and you will go and pick up theyr items shortly after. When they start to relise this they have already spent a great deal cash on the store that will benefit old players as the server is never in any danger to close down.

    What if a noob comes in a raven against an old timer, theyr chance to survive is quite slim as ships are just one of the many tools to get victory in that game.

    Ship builders will see very slight reduced income, not big enuff to impact you but for every 10 ship you sell you might loose 1 costumer to cs. old timers are your bigest income target anyway and those wont buy stuff from cs as they have plenty of isk already.

    One thing is sure CCP needs to do something in the comming years to generate more income then they are today, eve while quite good is an old game and it will only get older.

    I think the problem would be if (like the cosmetic items in there now) they didn't lose the ship.  They don't lose the items from the item shop now on death.  Can you imagine being able to buy a ship for cash that you never lose?

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,820

    Originally posted by Olgark



    Originally posted by Faxxer





    whoever leaked the internal memo should be fired.   they caused harm to the company they agreed to work for.






     

    They were staying true to the people who pay their wages, namely us the paying customers who play their game.

    um sure!

    So which one of the players actually cuts that check?

    I don't recall ever working for a company that didn't have a non-disclosure agreement in place when I was hired. Whoever leaked this should be fired.




  • ravtecravtec Member Posts: 214

    Originally posted by niceguy3978

    Originally posted by ravtec


    Originally posted by killahh

     the biggest and only issue is the fact that CCP will not make any statement on the matter of introducing items for cost in the game that effect gameplay: ships weapons, implants ect for cash.

    as eve is like the only fully developed mmorpg economy around, it would have a very negative effect on it. iof you a$$hats cannot get a handle mentally on this, then there is no hope for you.

     

    the sandbox cannot work  the way they seem to want it. ie monthly sub + paying for game altering items.

    would be nice to have them make a real statemenmt, not the crap thatsbeen flogged the past couple of days

    It wont affect gamplay much, people loose ships daily there. The new pople are the only ones that would need to consider buying ships and they are the 1st one to loose em in pvp.

    Vets got the cash and the skill to never needing this in the 1st place, noobs will pay for this and you will go and pick up theyr items shortly after. When they start to relise this they have already spent a great deal cash on the store that will benefit old players as the server is never in any danger to close down.

    What if a noob comes in a raven against an old timer, theyr chance to survive is quite slim as ships are just one of the many tools to get victory in that game.

    Ship builders will see very slight reduced income, not big enuff to impact you but for every 10 ship you sell you might loose 1 costumer to cs. old timers are your bigest income target anyway and those wont buy stuff from cs as they have plenty of isk already.

    One thing is sure CCP needs to do something in the comming years to generate more income then they are today, eve while quite good is an old game and it will only get older.

    I think the problem would be if (like the cosmetic items in there now) they didn't lose the ship.  They don't lose the items from the item shop now on death.  Can you imagine being able to buy a ship for cash that you never lose?

    If that is the case it change everything i wrote, only reason i base that  it wont affect gameplay much is becouse people loose alot of ships.

    If you kept it always it would ruin alot.

  • AngervienAngervien Member UncommonPosts: 24

    Ravtec,

    The problem isnt as simple as you try to make it out to be, if introduced the way that CCP has stated in their newsletter it will destroy the market system, generating items and the like out of thin air, it screws industrialist and players that have put in alot of years getting to where they are now.

    People arent going to be buying Ravens with the new money, this will be items with a skill bonus attached to them IE ammo, items (such as implants), BPO's, and ships that will have a decided quality to them that cant be gained anywhere else in game other than to purchase it through AUR.

    Eve is a very unique game that has created one hell of a true sandbox that has a very rich player made story behind it so yes the players have become attached to what has been created here.  And they know how CCP has reacted in the past to other problems, this has simply become the straw that broke the camels back.

    Examples:



    Super-Carriers and the Obsoletion of Dreadnaughts

    Planetary Interaction

    Faction Warfare

    Sovereignty Mechanics

    Player Owned Stations - You want to talk old problems...

    Poorly Built Ships or Modules - Black Ops? Hybrids? How long did Rockets take to fix?

    t20 - The CSM straightened this out, right?

    The tediousness of Mining

    The repetitive nature of Missions

    Aging Graphics - Missiles, Wormholes, Cyno and Warp Effects, Station Environments, Ship Skins

    Technetium

     

  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Member UncommonPosts: 1,990

    Originally posted by tinuelle

    Originally posted by Requiamer

    So they will keep on maintaining their cash shop policy? fare well then.

    Good luck, and dont return.

    No need for shirt trolls.

    I think there's an interesting point to be made from this.  They seem to be doing this because they need extra money to fund their other development projects.  If they lose too many subs over this, they will have to do one of two things.  First, they could just decide its not worth it and eliminate the item shop, but then that leaves them in the same predicament that they were in before.  Second, they could add items that more people would want to buy in order to make up for the lost revenue, this in turn may lead to more people leaving if "non-vanity" items are put up for sale, which would then continue the cycle.

     

    The third option is that they make up enough sales in the current state to offset any cancelations, but at those prices is this likely?

    Edit:  Forgot the fourth option, which is tied to the third option and that is there may not be enough people cancel because of this for CCP to notice.

  • ReeperReeper Member UncommonPosts: 121

    hope he/she is too, i would know who to vote for him/HER if they ever ran for politics, finnaly some one for the people, the rest of your company seems to have gottn what they deserve, dishonesty feeds dishonesty

     

      i See no checks being handed out to anyone if the paying customers disapeare, i see pink slips.

     

     

     

     

  • RequiamerRequiamer Member Posts: 2,034

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Originally posted by Olgark




    Originally posted by Faxxer





    whoever leaked the internal memo should be fired.   they caused harm to the company they agreed to work for.






     

    They were staying true to the people who pay their wages, namely us the paying customers who play their game.

    um sure!

    So which one of the players actually cuts that check?

    I don't recall ever working for a company that didn't have a non-disclosure agreement in place when I was hired. Whoever leaked this should be fired.

    The guy made the right thing, you would be stupid to fire someone to have some balls, those guys are usually appreciated as co workers.

  • RequiamerRequiamer Member Posts: 2,034

    Originally posted by tinuelle

    Originally posted by Requiamer

    So they will keep on maintaining their cash shop policy? fare well then.

    {mod edit}

    Something telling me you are the one being trolled by someone you don't really suspect as a troll; yes i do mean CCP. But as you wish, if you want me to be your troll any day son.

  • DranzDranz Member Posts: 6

    The guy made the right thing, you would be stupid to fire someone to have some balls, those guys are usually appreciated as co workers.






     

    Whether they're appreciated by -anybody- or not usually depends on the results of what they do, I believe.

     

    If I told someone something and trusted them to keep it safe, and they went and told someone else, starting a widespread rumor...? Heck naw.

     

    It really depends on how you look at it. Sure, they may have been trying to do the right thing, but do the ends justify the means?

     

    A lot of -crap- has flustered up over this(whether it's justified crap or not.)


  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,820

    Originally posted by Requiamer

    Originally posted by Sovrath


    Originally posted by Olgark




    Originally posted by Faxxer





    whoever leaked the internal memo should be fired.   they caused harm to the company they agreed to work for.






     

    They were staying true to the people who pay their wages, namely us the paying customers who play their game.

    um sure!

    So which one of the players actually cuts that check?

    I don't recall ever working for a company that didn't have a non-disclosure agreement in place when I was hired. Whoever leaked this should be fired.

    The guy made the right thing, you would be stupid to fire someone to have some balls, those guys are usually appreciated as co workers.

    I take it you have never had a job then?

    It just doesn't work that way.

    *next management meeting*

    "Hey bob, way to go posting that internal discussion about whether or not to continue x product or discontinue it and convince our customers to move to the new y product. Since we haven't made a decision yet I really appreciated you putting this out there without any context so that our customers could worry needlessly. You show some really get up and go attitude!"

    "Thanks Ted. I'm also going to start posting some of our future pipeline so that our competitors can see what we have planned"

    "wow Bob, you have some real cajones. I'm so glad you are my coworker".

    *boss sticks his head in*

    "just overheard you guys talking! Good work on leaking that information Bob. I think you'll find something extra in your next paycheck! Keep up the good work!"

     

    sometimes I wonder if some of mmorpg's posters have ever worked a day in their life or actually ever been a part of a company.




  • tinuelletinuelle Member UncommonPosts: 363

    Originally posted by Requiamer

    Originally posted by tinuelle


    Originally posted by Requiamer

    So they will keep on maintaining their cash shop policy? fare well then.

    Good luck, and dont return.

    No need for shirt trolls.

    Something telling me you are the one being trolled by someone you don't really suspect as a troll; yes i do mean CCP. But as you wish, if you want me to be your troll any day son.

    I play Eve, and I'm not dying over their vanity item shop. I aint trolling, but seeing the changes and not fearing them at the moment. I'd be more worried about EVE going free2play.

    Will they put anything in that will hurt their total revenue? Not likely........

    image
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