Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Star Wars: The Old Republic: Arenas and Dungeon Finder?

13»

Comments

  • Wharg0ulWharg0ul Member Posts: 4,183

    Originally posted by heerobya

    I'd love to see both a game and a movie that are more realistic -

    You want to cross continents in a boat?

    Sit in front of your computer screen or in the movie theatre for months. Months. Doing nothing but trying to not get scurvy.

    Get injured in combat? Sit in front of your computer screen or in the movie theatre for weeks doing nothing but watching your character sleep and p*ss him/herself.

    Games are suppose to be fun. Leave all that "not realistic" and "doesn't fit the IP" stuff at the door please.

     Sorry, man....but that's the classic excuse used by the instant gratification generation for not wanting to have to put any effort into anything.

    Your slippery slope about realism does nothing to convice me that a bit of authenticity in a RPG is a bad thing.

    Console games are there for those who want a quick, fun game fix. That's not what RPGs were ever about. They were about immersion and getting whisked away to another world for a while. Suspension of disbelief, and all that good stuff.

    Artificial game mechanics designed to suit ADD "gimme gimme" kiddies who can't be bothered to spell the word "you" don't belong in RPGs.

    Period.

    image

  • RoccprofitRoccprofit Member Posts: 98

    all these people crying about travelling is rather funny, before wow's dungeon finder 2-3 people would actually do the travel,what ever the minimum for a warlocks portal was, and then they would summon the rest in so the entire "we use to travel" argument is rubbish.

     

     The dungeon finder and the fact it pulled from other servers was awesome. From my experince the ones that complain about this system are the ones that got there thrills from refuseing to help anyone whos gear score was less then (enter what ever the highest possible gears score was here) and while refusing the idiots say things like " I got mine" totally ignoreing the FACT that they did NOT get it solo, they had to have a group and they more then likely spammed lfg to get said group but, now others need help the same way they did and they want to act all self important.

     

     I am all for the guy that put in more work having the better gear or at least getting it faster but, I think that simular to the twink solution in wow there needs to be a system in place that checks the players gear when they que for a bg style match and matchs them with people of simular gear. This system would also need to include the inablity to change gear after you enter to keep jerks from putting on lower end gear to get in and putting on the higher end gear once they are in.This would keep the guy that has no life, has all the gear 3 days after it is released, from being in the BG with guys that actually do something other then sit in front of there pc all day. 

     

     What killed world pvp was jerks in there top end arean gear going out and hammering people that did not have the same gear so people stopped flagging for pvp when running around the world, you can say that people need to work harder for it and that is basically true but, not giving them the chance to do the work is rather like the high school bully picking on people just because he can. 

     There should ALWAYS be a method for the casual player to eventually get the same gear, I am totally for the progresion to be slower for the casual gamer but, wow completly eliminates the casual gamer getting anywhere near the high end gear in anything shorter then 2-3 years at 25 marks a day and those 25 only if you win the match which when facing a huge group that has the best of the best gear is often rather like repeatedly slamming your head in a wall.

     I think a good game needs to have both pve and pvp because there are tons of people on both sides but, devlopers need to start adding methods of letting people that actually have to work or go to school get the same gear as the burrito chugging,energy drink inhaleing guy living in his parents basement, to busy getting gear to bother getting a job can get even if getting it slower.

    There is no place for 100% realisim in a mmo, it is a game not reality, you want reality there are a great many awesome simulators out there for ya, go play them.

    image

  • FoomerangFoomerang Member UncommonPosts: 5,628

    Arenas are fine but they need to be relegated to a mini game status that awards strictly cosmetic prizes (ie titles, color schemes, pets, etc). Things get all stupid when E-Sport mentality takes over an rpg.

    Dungeon Finder tool is fine but it needs to stay on the same server. Its so random who you meet every time, its too easy for people to act without consequence.

  • ElikalElikal Member UncommonPosts: 7,912

    I guess for a story driven MMO like TOR, both features would be odd and not really ftting. I always hated Arena PVP for the reasons mentioned in the article.

    In a not so story based MMO, I enjoy a Dungeon Finder, because otherwise it REALLY can be a hassle these days to find a group. But in the story heavy game which is TOR I think it would be strange to be tossed with random people just because of some dungeon finder. Anything that makes people talk is generally good.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • deniterdeniter Member RarePosts: 1,440

    Originally posted by Elikal

    I guess for a story driven MMO like TOR, both features would be odd and not really ftting. I always hated Arena PVP for the reasons mentioned in the article.

    In a not so story based MMO, I enjoy a Dungeon Finder, because otherwise it REALLY can be a hassle these days to find a group. But in the story heavy game which is TOR I think it would be strange to be tossed with random people just because of some dungeon finder. Anything that makes people talk is generally good.

    I agree. I don't like DF either but it certainly makes things easier. Someone on some forums had a great idea for this matter: why not have a check box in your quest log after each group quest. You check the box, you're now looking for a group for that quest. When enough players have checked the box for the same quest, your group is formed but no teleportation will happen.

    This kind of tool would be awesome since it only helps to find the group, nothing more.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 33,142

    Originally posted by Roccprofit

    There is no place for 100% realisim in a mmo, it is a game not reality, you want reality there are a great many awesome simulators out there for ya, go play them.

    hmmm, and why can't a game incorporate more reasonable "reality" and then one can say to you "this game has more reasonable reality, if you want a game to play more like a "game" then there are plenty of those out there.

    Just a thought.

    Not everything has to be one thing or another. sometimes a bit of outside the box thinking or following a different path is ok too. Otherwise we all get the same thing and it all seems very homogenized or even pasteurized for that matter.

    but I'm sure you must know that on some level.

    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • LavecLavec Member UncommonPosts: 43

    "What could be wrong with such a wonderful feature you ask? Take out the main reason for people to talk to one another in the game and you end up with a mere online RPG. "

    How can "LF1M TOR", "Tank LFG DaM" or whatever be called talk? Getting rid of LFG chat is a good thing. It leaves the channels free for general chat, party chat and guild chat. LFG spam is not the main reason for players to talk to one another. 

  • LavecLavec Member UncommonPosts: 43

    Originally posted by Falcomith



    Speaking on the Dungeon Finder, I find that it is tool for people who dont care for the games content in-between. Take for instance that old game WoW. Yea, I hate that word now too...But anyway,, in WoW  once you make 15 or 17 the dungeon finder tool is open because the first dungeon is available.



    You then queue and run a dungeon and level. You queue up again, run the dungeon and level. You keep following that routine and as you reach new levels other dungeons open up with the exception of the ones that force you to do a quest chain first to unlock them. Even then its just a few. So eventually you will be following that routine and make level cap before you know it. Then you look back and say..."Gee. I got to the point I can run raids and start doing endgame, but what did I miss?"



    I fell in that trap. Fortunately when they introduced the Dungeon finder I was already level 70 so I seen most of everything before that level. But between 70 and level cap I noticed I missed allot of content...and some fun content. 



    I begin to ask a question to myself, why did the developer want to set a system up that allowed players to pretty much skip 75% of the content? For crying out loud they spent countless days and nights to develope an expansive continent that rarely got walked on.



    I would be one upset employee if I spent long hours building a particular zone to find out one of my co-workers developed a system that would allow players to indirectly out level the zone. You cant get feed back if people are not playing in the content you provided for them. I feel sorry for those folks.



    What happened to the good O'games that forced you to at least walk through almost every zone to get to your objective? What happned to the sense of adventure and the challenge of the adventure to get to your objective?



    I personally believe that the mmorpg community for the most part and the developers in some cases has made the genre a competition and has forgotten its not about "I got here before you and have all the pretties", but about, "Wow! It took me awhile to get here and got into some tight spots, but it felt like an adventure and feels like I accomplished something."



    Hopefully SWTOR will not have the dungeon finder and has made the game challenging and fun.


     

     There's no reason SWTOR can't have both. I think you should at least need to complete some objective to open up a dungeon for queuing, posibly even to go to the entrance (after which you are free to do other things while you are queued). One the dungeon is unlocked though it should be as is with teleport feature. That way you need to complete the story line and background to dungeons, plus you can run them multiple times if you like. I'mn confident SWTOR will do this since it is so much story driven.

  • IllyssiaIllyssia Member UncommonPosts: 1,507

    Dungeon and Arena finders kill the imersion of a game...that's certainly the effect they had in WoW. TOR will be much better for this as it forces people to interact socially with each other in the Star Wars universe. Yes there will be the WoW guys who have no social skills...but it is always one of the pleasent aspects of a MMORPG on release how immersive the players into the world can be. All to quickly the magic of the MMO genre is lost by Dungeon Finders.

  • dragonsidragonsi Member UncommonPosts: 76

    I have watched all the Star Wars movies, even back in the '70s and early '80s when I was pre-teen, and I have played The Hero Unleashed game on Wii and PS3.   But I'm more of a pure fantasy MMO person, and bookwise as well. I've read 1000s of books in my life, 900 by the time I was 17 alone, but hard core Star Wars books weren't my thing.

    I have played a Red Mage/Summoner on Final Fantasy 11 back in '04 to '06, and currently play a few fantasy MMOs, i.e: Eden Enternal, Wow, Lucent Hearts, Aion and FF 14,  and a few others over the years.

    Now I just have a simple question, I do not want to be flamed or critized for my question, but is there pure magic classes in this game? I have always been either one of the following: Pure elemental mage type class, or Black Mage, or Elemental being Summoner, or magical pet class (Beast Tamer, no thanks) but probably the #1 type of job I enjoy is the "self healer" job like a Red Mage. You can heal yourself, and cast major nuking spells, but I have zero interest in being the main healer.

    I know I have no interest in gun classes, bounty hunters, thieves, and especially tank classes, and I don't consider "the force" as magical weapons, so I'm just politely asking yes or no, if there is magical type classes in this game that I would enjoy. IF NOT, then please don't flame my comments or attempt to suggest other jobs I might like instead.

    I'm also a huge crafter and sometimes craft for weeks at a time, never focusing on Level Uping, or fighting same level mobs for exp points, only farming weaker mobs for crafting items also. But then again, even if this has a great crafting system, it wouldn't appeal to me without the proper class interests as well.


  • Originally posted by dragonsi

    I have watched all the Star Wars movies, even back in the '70s and early '80s when I was pre-teen, and I have played The Hero Unleashed game on Wii and PS3.   But I'm more of a pure fantasy MMO person, and bookwise as well. I've read 1000s of books in my life, 900 by the time I was 17 alone, but hard core Star Wars books weren't my thing.

    I have played a Red Mage/Summoner on Final Fantasy 11 back in '04 to '06, and currently play a few fantasy MMOs, i.e: Eden Enternal, Wow, Lucent Hearts, Aion and FF 14,  and a few others over the years.

    Now I just have a simple question, I do not want to be flamed or critized for my question, but is there pure magic classes in this game? I have always been either one of the following: Pure elemental mage type class, or Black Mage, or Elemental being Summoner, or magical pet class (Beast Tamer, no thanks) but probably the #1 type of job I enjoy is the "self healer" job like a Red Mage. You can heal yourself, and cast major nuking spells, but I have zero interest in being the main healer.

    I know I have no interest in gun classes, bounty hunters, thieves, and especially tank classes, and I don't consider "the force" as magical weapons, so I'm just politely asking yes or no, if there is magical type classes in this game that I would enjoy. IF NOT, then please don't flame my comments or attempt to suggest other jobs I might like instead.

    I'm also a huge crafter and sometimes craft for weeks at a time, never focusing on Level Uping, or fighting same level mobs for exp points, only farming weaker mobs for crafting items also. But then again, even if this has a great crafting system, it wouldn't appeal to me without the proper class interests as well.

    if you don't consider the force as a magical weapon, then no, there isnt a class that you would like.  there are a couple caster types in the jedi consular(sage advanced class) and sith inquisitor(sorcerer advanced class) that depending on the way you spec, rely almost entirely on using the force. but like you said you don't consider the force as a kind of magic so that doesn't work for you, its just the closest thing they have in this game,

  • depaindepain Member Posts: 263

    Battlegrounds have destroyed MMOs. I'm sorry.

  • Z3R01Z3R01 Member UncommonPosts: 2,426

    Originally posted by depain

    Battlegrounds have destroyed MMOs. I'm sorry.

    If people didnt want instanced, fair pvp maps they wouldnt be as popular.

    They havent ruined anything, its the lack of quality, rewarding open world pvp thats forced people to keep pvping in "BGs".

    Playing: Nothing

    Looking forward to: Nothing 


  • PalebanePalebane Member RarePosts: 4,011

    Originally posted by Z3R01

    Originally posted by depain

    Battlegrounds have destroyed MMOs. I'm sorry.

    If people didnt want instanced, fair pvp maps they wouldnt be as popular.

    They havent ruined anything, its the lack of quality, rewarding open world pvp thats forced people to keep pvping in "BGs".

     There is no such thing as fair PvP maps in an Online RPG unless the players are all the same class with all the same gear, which would make it boring as an RPG. If you want fair, restricted PvP, shooters are better suited to that in my opinion. I think you are partially right about the rewards drawing players towards (or away from) other forms of PvP. I would venture to say that BGs by themselves have not hurt Online RPG communities, but instances certainly have in my point of view.

     

    As far as the dungeon finder goes, when there is no need to build or use social skills, they become largely irrelevant, which is sad because to me, that is the most fun part of Online RPGs. I get as much fun out of using the DF to find groups (and playing with that group) as I do playing tetris. I do like tetris, but that's not what I expect from an Online RPG.

    Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  • CzechGuyCzechGuy Member Posts: 86

    I dont know what everyones problem is with Arenas and dungeon finders.

     

    MMO' were always meant to be like FPS games devoured in small 15 min chunks.

     

    Call Of Duty is the most popular game of all time. Therefore all MMO's need to be like CoD. Even WoW. Nobody wants persistent open world games where you socialize with others. We just wanna pwn noobs brah for 15 min at a time. MAKE IT HAPPEN BIOWARE!

  • SuperXero89SuperXero89 Member UncommonPosts: 2,551

    The dungeon finder is simply a tool to get people to playing "together" in a multiplayer game.  What's laughable are those that claim WoW"s dungeon finder destroyed the community, yet before it, I almost never had any reason to interact with a single person.  

    If you want to talk about building a community in a game, I can't take you seriously unless you advocate a return to the days of classic Everquest.

  • rashherorashhero Member UncommonPosts: 510

    Last thing I want to do at the end of a day of work is to sit outside a dungeon waiting for a group to show up. Instead I could knock out a few missions/quests while in a cue, not missing the opportunity to xp while waiting for a group to form.

  • PalebanePalebane Member RarePosts: 4,011

     










    Originally posted by SuperXero89

    The dungeon finder is simply a tool to get people to playing "together" in a multiplayer game.  What's laughable are those that claim WoW"s dungeon finder destroyed the community, yet before it, I almost never had any reason to interact with a single person.  

    If you want to talk about building a community in a game, I can't take you seriously unless you advocate a return to the days of classic Everquest.


     



     I hear what you are saying. There are two different types of community though. Those that operate for the good of all, and those that are filled with players who only interact for their own self-interest. When using the DF, you are not really playing "together" with those people. You are there by yourself, and there are other players beside you doing their own thing. Sure the goal is the same, but if you never had a reason to interact with those people before the DF, that sounds like lousy game mechanics or mismatched personality type with game type, in my opinion.

     

     

     




    Originally posted by rashhero

    Last thing I want to do at the end of a day of work is to sit outside a dungeon waiting for a group to show up. Instead I could knock out a few missions/quests while in a cue, not missing the opportunity to xp while waiting for a group to form.





     

    You are right, most players today just want to get into the action, because combat and progression is the fun part of the game to them. Waiting for a group would be heresy to those folks. On the other hand there are those who find the fun part of the game to be meeting new people and finding new and unorthodox ways to accomplish things. For them, waiting for a group is just more opportunity to socialize, while waiting in a queue at all would be heresy.

    Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  • SuperXero89SuperXero89 Member UncommonPosts: 2,551

    Originally posted by Palebane

     










    Originally posted by SuperXero89

    The dungeon finder is simply a tool to get people to playing "together" in a multiplayer game.  What's laughable are those that claim WoW"s dungeon finder destroyed the community, yet before it, I almost never had any reason to interact with a single person.  

    If you want to talk about building a community in a game, I can't take you seriously unless you advocate a return to the days of classic Everquest.



     



     I hear what you are saying. There are two different types of community though. Those that operate for the good of all, and those that are filled with players who only interact for their own self-interest. When using the DF, you are not really playing "together" with those people. You are there by yourself, and there are other players beside you doing their own thing. Sure the goal is the same, but if you never had a reason to interact with those people before the DF, that sounds like lousy game mechanics or mismatched personality type with game type, in my opinion.

     

     

     

    Right but would you really say that all sever-only dungeon groups are really all that different from the dungeon finder groups?  To me, they're mostly the same.  Sometimes you get in a group where no one ever talks.  Other times you get into groups where people won't stop talking.  Occasionally you'll group with a ninja looter.  Sometimes you'll group with immature brats.  At least the dungeon finder gives you the chance to get into a decent group.  I can count the number of at-level dungeon runs I did while leveling up in WoW prior to the dungeon finder on one hand.

    As for lousy game mechanics, welcome to the world of mass solo quest grinding.  While it was a boon for the solo player, it effectively killed mostly any reason for players to regularly group up outside of the level cap.

  • TheomastusTheomastus Member Posts: 35

    Originally posted by oakthornn

     



    Now, If this was 6 years ago, I would have fought against this and stated pvp gear should not be equal to end game raid gear, simply because it's harder to get end game raid gear than PVP gear.

     

    So, so, SO wrong.

    In PvE content you find a lot of raiders being carried on the backs of others- in arenas this was still a concern but was limited by the much smaller size of Arena teams.  There's a limit to how much dead weight even a 5v5 team can afford.

    It was always MUCH easier to get high-end PvE gear than high-end PvP gear- which is why there is so much QQ about arenas- most people simply aren't good enough to get it and it gives them nerdrage.

    “The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: Be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge.”
    -Elbert Hubbard

  • garrygarry Member Posts: 263

    Ah well, the usual Forum PvP.

     

    Correct me if I am wromg, spare the flame please, but from the statements made above about PvP gear then PvP players will have the PvP stat used when they PvP. The PvP stat boost will not be available when they PvE. Sounds fair to me and the extra vanity stuff u might achieve from PvP doesn't bother me at all, it is fine. Also, PvP can get more xp than from PvE? They can level faster? I honestly don't care, in fact, more power to them. I am not a power leveler as I hope to enjoy the multi-class progress of this game.

     

    When it comes to Arena or DF. I don't care for PvP so any Arena combat will be what I do for whatever guild I join if they need and can use me. If DF is in game I will use it I suppose and if not I will simply go look for group. Either way is ok. I have to admit that one thing I would enjoy having in game is a 'view arena combat' option. I enjoy seeing truly expert players going at it just as I like watching my favorite football teams.  It would be fun to be part of the 'crowd' watching a match, altho virtual snacks and beer leave something to be desired.

     

    Wonder if Arena PvP players would like having a crowd watch their match? We would need an 'applause' button to show our appreciation while watching of course. Mabey a vote button for 'best this or best that' that would award something to the arena player, like a trophy for their ship. Ahhh..who am I kidding?

  • esos24esos24 Member Posts: 34

    Making things to be too easy brings only bad players. 

  • ShazkneeShazknee Member Posts: 81

    God I seriously hope they won't sell out like WoW and Rift with a LFD tool.

     

    No thanks to having everyone standing in 1 city, just waiting for the LFD tool to pop up with a group.

     

    I've been playing mmo's for 12 years now, and I've never seen anything have such a terrible impact on a server community as the LFD tool, same thing with the BG tool, make people show up at the actual place where the BG is.

     

    Hate making/looking for groups? well I guess a single player game is more your style then, and seriously, no wonder you're a lone wolf, when all you're doing is the LFD tool, it's not a way too meet new people to play with.

     

    spending time finding a group -> travel to the instance -> maybe fight the opposing side near the dungeon -> do the dungeon with people who invested time in getting there in the first place -> actually meet people whom you'll talk with after and do more dungeons with >>> queueing for an instant dungeon with a bunch of strangers you're likely to never meet again, and if they turn out to be the most awesome guys you've ever meet, you'll never play with them again.

     

  • Karnage69Karnage69 Member UncommonPosts: 323

    Originally posted by Romse



    When you owe your dungeon run to someone letting you into their group rather than being magically added to a group... you tend to act a bit more like your tush is on the line and less like you have a sense of entitlement.

    That also means the way you act, perform and the general impression you give and friends you make count towards future runs. That is the idea behind an MMO.


     

    ^ This right here.

    I remember running a Tank/Healer combo with my friend for hours at a time. We were on just about everyone's friends list and eventually were bombarded with people asking for invites everytime we logged on.

    People behaved and did as we asked, or we kicked them out. Problem is we rarely ever had to kick anyone since we kicked so much butt, many people were amazed that instances could be done so quickly and efficiently. People were actually grateful and understanding.

  • esos24esos24 Member Posts: 34

    second that

Sign In or Register to comment.