Is there any game you do not complain about with massive walls of text but yet purchase anyways? TOR is what it is and at no time has Bioware promised something extra super duper. They promised a familiar feeling game with a story and marketed to the masses. The masses cannot run Crysis 2 on high settings even. Your list is both silly and pointless espeicially considering you are supporting the game with your money anyways.
You mistake cause and effect. I complain so much because so many games are "bad". Without critique, how can we hope things ever improve?
The problem though is you support them with your money. Complaning on a third party site is all good and fine as I have done more than my fair share here over the years and do not hide from that fact. However I tend not to support those games which I do not think is worth the money. Gods and Heroes is a great example. I love mythology and the setting. The game is mildly amusing but so unfinished I will not pay 50 dollars for something that may provide me with something down the road. You point out they are bad but play anyways and then you will come back and echo your feelings a couple months post launch. Sorry I just find it a strange was to show dissatisfaction.
I suppose you are right. But for me, games not "good or bad", hence I put them in quotation marks. Many games have some cool and some terrible aspects. Then it is Star Wars, and I am a HUGE Star Wars fan. If it were any other fandom or random background I would maybe skip TOR altogether. But it IS Star War, so I can't avoid it. In the immortal words of Admiral Akhbar:
"IT'S A TRAP!"
At least for me. ^^
Also, this is a forum to talk about our hobbies' likes and dislikes, innit? *shrug* I mean, we will spar and fight over our opinions and afterwards laugh it up and drink a beer together. Probably in some Mos Eisley cantina, if we are lucky.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Sorry to break it to everyone but your never gonna get a mmo with the graphics of crysis it just isn't possible it have to much lag client and server side unless u like pvp being 1v1 in an instanced arena or loading every 20 steps like aoc. I prefer 1 loading screen fo my world 1 for my dungeon and thats it loading breaks immersion.
Also everyone keeps saying guild wars 2 will be a savior to mmos which is a laugh cause right now guild wars 2 is vaporware to me they havent said anyting about the game since they showed a person questing which looked like a better version of warhammer pqs which means they still didnt change questin at all.Also they broke the holy trinity with no healers which means pots will be the main source of healing cause u cannot have a game where u have no way to heal yourself sorry it doesnt work.
Ps SWTOR is still almost 6 months to maybe another year before it even going to come out. They are still in the friends and family only beta phase. The savior guild wars 2 imo has already been canceled and they just havent told us yet.
Sorry to break it to everyone but your never gonna get a mmo with the graphics of crysis it just isn't possible it have to much lag client and server side unless u like pvp being 1v1 in an instanced arena or loading every 20 steps like aoc. I prefer 1 loading screen fo my world 1 for my dungeon and thats it loading breaks immersion.
Also everyone keeps saying guild wars 2 will be a savior to mmos which is a laugh cause right now guild wars 2 is vaporware to me they havent said anyting about the game since they showed a person questing which looked like a better version of warhammer pqs which means they still didnt change questin at all.Also they broke the holy trinity with no healers which means pots will be the main source of healing cause u cannot have a game where u have no way to heal yourself sorry it doesnt work.
Ps SWTOR is still almost 6 months to maybe another year before it even going to come out. They are still in the friends and family only beta phase. So is the savior guild wars 2 but imo guild wars to has already been canceled and they just havnt told us yet.
actually that hasn't been true for close to a year now.
@OP: well, SWTOR is of the family of WoW-styled themepark MMO's like a LotrO, Aion, Rift, etc, so you'll have sandbox fans and people who've gotten burnt out on those MMO's insta-hating SWTOR, that's easy to see, in this thread alone.
As for your arguments:
sandbox: sorry, has been tried, quite some people liked it especially on this site as 'home for the homeless' sandbox MMO drifters, but SWG didn't reach and maintain the high numbers, it had a rapidly shrinking population when it became dwarfed by newcomers. So, SWTOR will try a themepark SW MMO, we'll see how successful that will be but my guess is it'll prove that SW as a themepark MMO draws a hell of a lot more people than Star Wars as a sandbox MMO did.
graphics: SWTOR is imo like LotrO here, environment graphics are superb but character models less so. Anyone who complains about SWTOR's environment graphics I just can't take seriously anymore, it should be obvious that they're among the best. Just look at Aion's cities or even a Tarantia in AoC or TERA's and Rift's cities and then at Coruscant, and then tell me that SWTOR's graphics suck and that the graphics of other MMO's are so much better.
quests: another area that sandbox fans don't care about, so they'll hate any improvement upon it. Why do I say 'sandbox fans'? Because you never hear the biggest and loudest complainers say 'I want quests to stay as they are! Textbased and no decisions possible!', because they know how foolish they'd sound. Instead you hear them complain and give reasons like... sandbox features, and how 'a player should be able to make his own stories bla bla' nonsense. As if having story immersive quests will prevent you from doing that any more than questing and quest leveling in other themepark MMO's.
Again, it's hard to take sandbox fans seriously if they won't admit that it isn't story in quests that they dislike, but just themepark design in general and questing as a core part of it, so they'll hate any dev attention that goes towards improving the questing experience, because in their eyes it's a waste of resources. After all, they don't care about themepark design and quests anyway.
As for the combat and endgame content part, yeah, I would have seen things rather differently, although not everything is revealed yet regarding endgame and pvp content, so we'll see how that ends up. But so far, no major innovations or breaking away from the standard here.
So, my conclusion (tldr): SWTOR will be insta-hated by jaded MMO vets who cannot enjoy MMO's anymore unless they're radically innovative or different and sandbox fans for everything that SWTOR represents, the current themepark design model they've grown to hate because it has oppressed their kind of MMO's. My guess is that the majority of the loudest complainers here in this thread and others fall in one of those 2 categories.
People who can still enjoy current AAA titles and haven't gotten burnt out will have those issues far, far less.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
- Graphics: I like the graphics. Sure I love Aion's graphics, too. Which would I prefer? Doens't matter as long as the game is fun.
- Combat: I didn't expect different combat and I don't know why anyone else would. Even I can tell it was more of a business decision. Famaliar combat equals a predictable customer base. I think I prefer the typcal MMORPG combat anyways.
- Quests: I didn't expect anything different here in terms of quest objectives. I really can't think of any type of questing that hasn't been done before. I mean how could you really change the objectives to make it seem different? Even when they said they wouldn't have the go kill 10 of that quest, I still knew they would. It can't be escaped unless you remove the quests all together.
- Endgame: I expected this as well, but even inmy MMO experience, if the endgame doen't have the gear ladder, then it is just a PvP or RP endgame. That's how SWG was for me, had my crafted gear/ quest weapons and all I did was PvP because there wasn't anything else.
- No Sandbox whatsoever: I also remember them saying it wasn't a sandbox or themepark, but even I could tell it was going to be much more of a themepark than anything else. I mean, you will be following a story and they have told us there are some parts you cannot skip. I'm interested in this game because of the story and the way it will be presented, not because I would want a crafter's paradise. I don't think anyone that wants a true sandbox should even come close to buying this game. You're just going to be dissapointed and regret buying it.
--snip--
SWG is that way ---> It still exsists in both forms if you look for it. But in my opinion, even if SOE brought back Pre-CU or Pre-NGE I still wouldn't go back because the reason I played was the community and friends. The gameplay only enahnced my fun, but never defined it. I prefered the CU version anyways.
About Endgame for you was the PVP for many others was the collections and badges which was a huge pain in the a**
as for the graphics-quests-gameplay all p2p MMOs are 95% the same no matter what everybody say
the downside for me is that has no appearance tab and we dont know the storage capacity yet (inventory, backpack, bank, ship)
I think Erikson also said that it expands infinitely instead of using backs.
This could change however.
You start with 40 slots. You can pay to expand your inventory 10 slots at a time, capped at 80. The price of each row of slots gets progressively more expensive. That being said, any exact values (in terms of price and size) that you might see/hear about are prone to change as we make adjustments to the economy.
You can also pay to expand your ship's cargo hold, where you can store significantly more items.
We do not use the 'bag' paradigm that some other MMOs use - it's all one GUI.
cap 80 inv, unknown if backpack, unknown ship cap, unknown if bank, Damion didnt say anything about capacity (the inv cap was obvius)
fan of SWG, XCOM, Defiance, Global Agenda, Need For Speed, all Star Wars single player games. And waiting the darn STAR CITIZEN
Sorry to break it to everyone but your never gonna get a mmo with the graphics of crysis it just isn't possible it have to much lag client and server side unless u like pvp being 1v1 in an instanced arena or loading every 20 steps like aoc. I prefer 1 loading screen fo my world 1 for my dungeon and thats it loading breaks immersion.
Also everyone keeps saying guild wars 2 will be a savior to mmos which is a laugh cause right now guild wars 2 is vaporware to me they havent said anyting about the game since they showed a person questing which looked like a better version of warhammer pqs which means they still didnt change questin at all.Also they broke the holy trinity with no healers which means pots will be the main source of healing cause u cannot have a game where u have no way to heal yourself sorry it doesnt work.
Ps SWTOR is still almost 6 months to maybe another year before it even going to come out. They are still in the friends and family only beta phase. The savior guild wars 2 imo has already been canceled and they just havent told us yet.
AoC and ArcheAge come to mind...
Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW/GW2 - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW - TSO - WS - ESO - AA - BD Playing: Sims 3 & 4, Diablo3 and PoE Waiting on: Lost Ark Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?
I think what pisses off people on this site the most about SWTOR is that its not Star Eve Ultima Wars Galaxies Online.
What really gets me...is that the game doesn't have a release date and people are so definitive about how some of the features are, and how bad the game fails already..
aoc loads every 20 steps like i said and archage is using the old version of a heavly reprogrammed cry-engine and it also looks no where near as good as crysis 2 on max settings. Also aregage is a sandbox games which means they wont get over 100,000 subs if that. Sandbox games are for lazy developers that can't come up with a decent story. and i am pretty sure archage will have a ton of loading screens like aoc but hey if u like looking at loading screens more power to yah.
@OP: well, SWTOR is of the family of WoW-styled themepark MMO's like a LotrO, Aion, Rift, etc, so you'll have sandbox fans and people who've gotten burnt out on those MMO's insta-hating SWTOR, that's easy to see, in this thread alone.
As for your arguments:
sandbox: sorry, has been tried, quite some people liked it especially on this site as 'home for the homeless' sandbox MMO drifters, but SWG didn't reach and maintain the high numbers, it had a rapidly shrinking population when it became dwarfed by newcomers. So, SWTOR will try a themepark SW MMO, we'll see how successful that will be but my guess is it'll prove that SW as a themepark MMO draws a hell of a lot more people than Star Wars as a sandbox MMO did.
Why do you intentionally disregard time in your assessment as SW sandboxes as a failure? SWG was broken into a themepark before MMORPG genre became mainstream enough to get the kind of numbers that MMOs get today. Sandbox is NOT the reason SWG died, I'm sorry, you're wrong.
If SWG were polished in its original sandbox form, with some of today's content and items, it would be a monster and everyone knows it.
aoc loads every 20 steps like i said and archage is using the old version of a heavly reprogrammed cry-engine and it also looks no where near as good as crysis 2 on max settings. Also aregage is a sandbox games which means they wont get over 100,000 subs if that. Sandbox games are for lazy developers that can't come up with a decent story. and i am pretty sure archage will have a ton of loading screens like aoc but hey if u like looking at loading screens more power to yah.
This post is sickening.
Reminds me of that great quote from Billy Madison.
"What you just said...is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought, Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points...and may God have mercy on your soul."
I think what pisses off people on this site the most about SWTOR is that its not Star Eve Ultima Wars Galaxies Online.
What really gets me...is that the game doesn't have a release date and people are so definitive about how some of the features are, and how bad the game fails already..
I know what you mean
some people want to ruin the immersion of the game cuz they hate it,
or they think that will take players from their today MMO
some people want some issues from others MMOs that they played and liked them, so want them into this game
some people they will play the game without those that liked in other MMOs just because they dont care so much for them
some will bored soon ,others will find it extremly good
some will like the PVE, some will like the full voiced e.t.c.
Even the gameplay and classes balance for some arent reasons to quit a game
The only problem that we all hate (and will make us leave) is the long way unfixed bugs and the daily lag
fan of SWG, XCOM, Defiance, Global Agenda, Need For Speed, all Star Wars single player games. And waiting the darn STAR CITIZEN
- Graphics: I like the graphics. Sure I love Aion's graphics, too. Which would I prefer? Doens't matter as long as the game is fun.
- Combat: I didn't expect different combat and I don't know why anyone else would. Even I can tell it was more of a business decision. Famaliar combat equals a predictable customer base. I think I prefer the typcal MMORPG combat anyways.
- Quests: I didn't expect anything different here in terms of quest objectives. I really can't think of any type of questing that hasn't been done before. I mean how could you really change the objectives to make it seem different? Even when they said they wouldn't have the go kill 10 of that quest, I still knew they would. It can't be escaped unless you remove the quests all together.
- Endgame: I expected this as well, but even inmy MMO experience, if the endgame doen't have the gear ladder, then it is just a PvP or RP endgame. That's how SWG was for me, had my crafted gear/ quest weapons and all I did was PvP because there wasn't anything else.
- No Sandbox whatsoever: I also remember them saying it wasn't a sandbox or themepark, but even I could tell it was going to be much more of a themepark than anything else. I mean, you will be following a story and they have told us there are some parts you cannot skip. I'm interested in this game because of the story and the way it will be presented, not because I would want a crafter's paradise. I don't think anyone that wants a true sandbox should even come close to buying this game. You're just going to be dissapointed and regret buying it.
--snip--
SWG is that way ---> It still exsists in both forms if you look for it. But in my opinion, even if SOE brought back Pre-CU or Pre-NGE I still wouldn't go back because the reason I played was the community and friends. The gameplay only enahnced my fun, but never defined it. I prefered the CU version anyways.
About Endgame for you was the PVP for many others was the collections and badges which was a huge pain in the a**
as for the graphics-quests-gameplay all p2p MMOs are 95% the same no matter what everybody say
the downside for me is that has no appearance tab and we dont know the storage capacity yet (inventory, backpack, bank, ship)
I think Erikson also said that it expands infinitely instead of using backs.
This could change however.
You start with 40 slots. You can pay to expand your inventory 10 slots at a time, capped at 80. The price of each row of slots gets progressively more expensive. That being said, any exact values (in terms of price and size) that you might see/hear about are prone to change as we make adjustments to the economy.
You can also pay to expand your ship's cargo hold, where you can store significantly more items.
We do not use the 'bag' paradigm that some other MMOs use - it's all one GUI.
cap 80 inv, unknown if backpack, unknown ship cap, unknown if bank, Damion didnt say anything about capacity (the inv cap was obvius)
there is no "backpack" where you buy more bags to increase its size. you just open the inventory screen and it has an option at the bottom of it to increase its size and that cap is as he says 80. and you are right, he doesn't say cargo hold size but is that truely something that needs to be known before you get in game?
there is no "backpack" where you buy more bags to increase its size. you just open the inventory screen and it has an option at the bottom of it to increase its size and that cap is as he says 80. and you are right, he doesn't say cargo hold size but is that truely something that needs to be known before you get in game?
if its not at least 60 slots on not gonna play the game ...
- Combat: This combat is so like Everquest from 10 years ago! Stand there, shoot around and repeat.
Sad but not surprised, BioWare games are known to be average on the combat part. The biggest issue is seeing characters shooting at each others with laser weapons standing in the open. Or even worse like troopers rushing a ranged armed NPC to kick it with his weapon.
=> Reason is suits "knows" MMO and RPG players can't adapt to FPS game play
- Quests: Yes, there is Granny Sithlord telling you 5 minutes about her life and her elaborate background story and then you have the choice to say something nice or something mean (huzzah!) but in those remaining 95% of the game you still will walk around with a shopping list and kill the 10 womprats in Granny Sithlord's cellar and she's going to reward you with a nice womprat-pie STR+10 for 60 min.
VO story will be fun the first time you run it and (reality check = AoC Tortage) soon you'll wish you could totally skip it without even needing to hit space bar. VO will be fun when wandering around waiting for your friends to log in and join you in your errands.
- Endgame: So the truth is out. Endgame is WOW. Period.
I'm relieved I thought it was rolling an alt.
- No Sandbox whatsoever: When TOR was announced, the Bioware devs said TOR was going to be no Sandbox and no Themepark, but a mix of both. It was a lie. TOR is a 100% Themepark and entirely DEVOID of ANY Sandbox elements!
It's been a long long time since we knew it, not even disappointed anymore. Still sad they intentedly left the non combat oriented players at the door of the party.
I know it will come over as rant, and it prolly is. But now that most of the cards have been revealed I can't help but feel let down. I mean, sure it will be a nice and decend game. I am going to play it a while. But why Bioware aimed for so little in so many core areas... it's something I just don't get why.
Same I intend to pre-order the CE edition. However not ure I will even pass the 1st month mark
Few things to add:
BioWare do know the space shooter is a miss.
The heroic proportions are far from pleasing the majority of the players
Wow in space: we have blood elves, warlock suits and huge shoulder pads.
Crafting looks unappealing : select companion - click button to have them automatically do something - get results
PvP warfronts: (for now) limited to 8 vs 8. Look very small.
Boss fight is indeed many players against one boss. Who said heroic yet?
Top of that some of the features that we know won't make the game (at least at launch):
Swimming
Third party addons
Minigames like Pazaak, Sabac or Holo-chess
Dual spec
Day/night cycles
Non humanoid based playable races
Multiplayer space content
3d space combat
Choice of space ship chassis
Decoration mechanic for personal ships
Pod racing
Player bounties
Companions in Warzones
Companions body/race customization.
Animal based pet classes
Resources for crafting does not have quality
Guild leveling system
Animal mounts
Planetary housing
Not confirmed:
Appearance tabs
Gear Dyes?
Display pets?
=> Remove SW from the title of the game and think about it.
@OP: well, SWTOR is of the family of WoW-styled themepark MMO's like a LotrO, Aion, Rift, etc, so you'll have sandbox fans and people who've gotten burnt out on those MMO's insta-hating SWTOR, that's easy to see, in this thread alone.
As for your arguments:
sandbox: sorry, has been tried, quite some people liked it especially on this site as 'home for the homeless' sandbox MMO drifters, but SWG didn't reach and maintain the high numbers, it had a rapidly shrinking population when it became dwarfed by newcomers. So, SWTOR will try a themepark SW MMO, we'll see how successful that will be but my guess is it'll prove that SW as a themepark MMO draws a hell of a lot more people than Star Wars as a sandbox MMO did.
Why do you intentionally disregard time in your assessment as SW sandboxes as a failure? SWG was broken into a themepark before MMORPG genre became mainstream enough to get the kind of numbers that MMOs get today. Sandbox is NOT the reason SWG died, I'm sorry, you're wrong.
If SWG were polished in its original sandbox form, with some of today's content and items, it would be a monster and everyone knows it.
Yep, I spot a sandbox fan, which automatically explains your stance towards SWTOR, so far I guess I'm right
As for SWG, I'm sure that to people like you SWG wasn't a failure. However, it never brought the numbers and success that was expected from such a major franchise even in a time that there was hardly any competition. And even more, for a year before any NGE it started to decrease in population, rapidly, as soon as Everquest 2 and WoW had arrived.
As devs have stated, the whole NGE thing was a reaction upon their rapidly shrinking population, even before an NGE they'd already lost more than a third of their total population and it started with EQ2 and WoW on the scene.
If they had left things as they were, this downward trend wouldn't just have stopped magically. Sorry, mate, the Star Wars as a sandbox MMO has been given its shot, it gave its best, so let it rest in peace.
It's time to see how Star Wars as a themepark styled MMO will do.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
- Graphics: I like the graphics. Sure I love Aion's graphics, too. Which would I prefer? Doens't matter as long as the game is fun.
- Combat: I didn't expect different combat and I don't know why anyone else would. Even I can tell it was more of a business decision. Famaliar combat equals a predictable customer base. I think I prefer the typcal MMORPG combat anyways.
- Quests: I didn't expect anything different here in terms of quest objectives. I really can't think of any type of questing that hasn't been done before. I mean how could you really change the objectives to make it seem different? Even when they said they wouldn't have the go kill 10 of that quest, I still knew they would. It can't be escaped unless you remove the quests all together.
- Endgame: I expected this as well, but even inmy MMO experience, if the endgame doen't have the gear ladder, then it is just a PvP or RP endgame. That's how SWG was for me, had my crafted gear/ quest weapons and all I did was PvP because there wasn't anything else.
- No Sandbox whatsoever: I also remember them saying it wasn't a sandbox or themepark, but even I could tell it was going to be much more of a themepark than anything else. I mean, you will be following a story and they have told us there are some parts you cannot skip. I'm interested in this game because of the story and the way it will be presented, not because I would want a crafter's paradise. I don't think anyone that wants a true sandbox should even come close to buying this game. You're just going to be dissapointed and regret buying it.
--snip--
SWG is that way ---> It still exsists in both forms if you look for it. But in my opinion, even if SOE brought back Pre-CU or Pre-NGE I still wouldn't go back because the reason I played was the community and friends. The gameplay only enahnced my fun, but never defined it. I prefered the CU version anyways.
About Endgame for you was the PVP for many others was the collections and badges which was a huge pain in the a**
as for the graphics-quests-gameplay all p2p MMOs are 95% the same no matter what everybody say
the downside for me is that has no appearance tab and we dont know the storage capacity yet (inventory, backpack, bank, ship)
I think Erikson also said that it expands infinitely instead of using backs.
This could change however.
You start with 40 slots. You can pay to expand your inventory 10 slots at a time, capped at 80. The price of each row of slots gets progressively more expensive. That being said, any exact values (in terms of price and size) that you might see/hear about are prone to change as we make adjustments to the economy.
You can also pay to expand your ship's cargo hold, where you can store significantly more items.
We do not use the 'bag' paradigm that some other MMOs use - it's all one GUI.
cap 80 inv, unknown if backpack, unknown ship cap, unknown if bank, Damion didnt say anything about capacity (the inv cap was obvius)
there is no "backpack" where you buy more bags to increase its size. you just open the inventory screen and it has an option at the bottom of it to increase its size and that cap is as he says 80. and you are right, he doesn't say cargo hold size but is that truely something that needs to be known before you get in game?
Since we can have 8 chars per server, i want to know at least (i'm mostly sure, but a confirmation will be pleassed) if we can transfer items between those chars, so i can create all 8 from the start to proceed for more slots in all of them
(also hope that we can transfer BoP items too)
fan of SWG, XCOM, Defiance, Global Agenda, Need For Speed, all Star Wars single player games. And waiting the darn STAR CITIZEN
@OP: well, SWTOR is of the family of WoW-styled themepark MMO's like a LotrO, Aion, Rift, etc, so you'll have sandbox fans and people who've gotten burnt out on those MMO's insta-hating SWTOR, that's easy to see, in this thread alone.
As for your arguments:
sandbox: sorry, has been tried, quite some people liked it especially on this site as 'home for the homeless' sandbox MMO drifters, but SWG didn't reach and maintain the high numbers, it had a rapidly shrinking population when it became dwarfed by newcomers. So, SWTOR will try a themepark SW MMO, we'll see how successful that will be but my guess is it'll prove that SW as a themepark MMO draws a hell of a lot more people than Star Wars as a sandbox MMO did.
Why do you intentionally disregard time in your assessment as SW sandboxes as a failure? SWG was broken into a themepark before MMORPG genre became mainstream enough to get the kind of numbers that MMOs get today. Sandbox is NOT the reason SWG died, I'm sorry, you're wrong.
If SWG were polished in its original sandbox form, with some of today's content and items, it would be a monster and everyone knows it.
Yep, I spot a sandbox fan, which automatically explains your stance towards SWTOR, so far I guess I'm right
As for SWG, I'm sure that to people like you SWG wasn't a failure. However, it never brought the numbers and success that was expected from such a major franchise even in a time that there was hardly any competition. And even more, for a year before any NGE it started to decrease in population, rapidly, as soon as Everquest 2 and WoW had arrived.
As devs have stated, the whole NGE thing was a reaction upon their rapidly shrinking population, even before an NGE they'd already lost more than a third of their total population and it started with EQ2 and WoW on the scene.
If they had left things as they were, this downward trend wouldn't just have stopped magically. Sorry, mate, the Star Wars as a sandbox MMO has been given its shot, it gave its best, so let it rest in peace.
It's time to see how Star Wars as a themepark styled MMO will do.
Still, trying to apply today's market trends to 2003 and saying it was "a sinking ship" is still rubbish. They lost a 1/3rd of their population, which was still a accomplished amount among the market. The main reason (I think) people left for WoW was the success of the Warcraft IP, through Warcraft 3. Star Wars and Warcraft IP's clashed and Warcraft's just had a tighter hold on people from W3 and TFT.
- Graphics: I like the graphics. Sure I love Aion's graphics, too. Which would I prefer? Doens't matter as long as the game is fun.
- Combat: I didn't expect different combat and I don't know why anyone else would. Even I can tell it was more of a business decision. Famaliar combat equals a predictable customer base. I think I prefer the typcal MMORPG combat anyways.
- Quests: I didn't expect anything different here in terms of quest objectives. I really can't think of any type of questing that hasn't been done before. I mean how could you really change the objectives to make it seem different? Even when they said they wouldn't have the go kill 10 of that quest, I still knew they would. It can't be escaped unless you remove the quests all together.
- Endgame: I expected this as well, but even inmy MMO experience, if the endgame doen't have the gear ladder, then it is just a PvP or RP endgame. That's how SWG was for me, had my crafted gear/ quest weapons and all I did was PvP because there wasn't anything else.
- No Sandbox whatsoever: I also remember them saying it wasn't a sandbox or themepark, but even I could tell it was going to be much more of a themepark than anything else. I mean, you will be following a story and they have told us there are some parts you cannot skip. I'm interested in this game because of the story and the way it will be presented, not because I would want a crafter's paradise. I don't think anyone that wants a true sandbox should even come close to buying this game. You're just going to be dissapointed and regret buying it.
--snip--
SWG is that way ---> It still exsists in both forms if you look for it. But in my opinion, even if SOE brought back Pre-CU or Pre-NGE I still wouldn't go back because the reason I played was the community and friends. The gameplay only enahnced my fun, but never defined it. I prefered the CU version anyways.
About Endgame for you was the PVP for many others was the collections and badges which was a huge pain in the a**
as for the graphics-quests-gameplay all p2p MMOs are 95% the same no matter what everybody say
the downside for me is that has no appearance tab and we dont know the storage capacity yet (inventory, backpack, bank, ship)
I think Erikson also said that it expands infinitely instead of using backs.
This could change however.
You start with 40 slots. You can pay to expand your inventory 10 slots at a time, capped at 80. The price of each row of slots gets progressively more expensive. That being said, any exact values (in terms of price and size) that you might see/hear about are prone to change as we make adjustments to the economy.
You can also pay to expand your ship's cargo hold, where you can store significantly more items.
We do not use the 'bag' paradigm that some other MMOs use - it's all one GUI.
cap 80 inv, unknown if backpack, unknown ship cap, unknown if bank, Damion didnt say anything about capacity (the inv cap was obvius)
there is no "backpack" where you buy more bags to increase its size. you just open the inventory screen and it has an option at the bottom of it to increase its size and that cap is as he says 80. and you are right, he doesn't say cargo hold size but is that truely something that needs to be known before you get in game?
Since we can have 8 chars per server, i want to know at least (i'm mostly sure, but a confirmation will be pleassed) if we can transfer items between those chars, so i can create all 8 from the start to proceed for more slots in all of them
ah i see. well no wrod on any kind of shared storage at this time. only option we know of right now is to send stuff through the mailbox and no idea if that would work between factions
cap 80 inv, unknown if backpack, unknown ship cap, unknown if bank, Damion didnt say anything about capacity (the inv cap was obvius)
there is no "backpack" where you buy more bags to increase its size. you just open the inventory screen and it has an option at the bottom of it to increase its size and that cap is as he says 80. and you are right, he doesn't say cargo hold size but is that truely something that needs to be known before you get in game?
Since we can have 8 chars per server, i want to know at least (i'm mostly sure, but a confirmation will be pleassed) if we can transfer items between those chars, so i can create all 8 from the start to proceed for more slots in all of them
ah i see. well no wrod on any kind of shared storage at this time. only option we know of right now is to send stuff through the mailbox and no idea if that would work between factions
since we have ship storage and we can use it as public to others can vizit them, maybe they manage them that we can admin our alter chars so with everyone of them to pick/drop items in every ship, the mailbox looks too old fashion way, but both ways will be doing fine.
Since we can have both factions chars in 1 server i dont see any reason not let us transfer items between our chars no matter what
fan of SWG, XCOM, Defiance, Global Agenda, Need For Speed, all Star Wars single player games. And waiting the darn STAR CITIZEN
Still, trying to apply today's market trends to 2003 and saying it was "a sinking ship" is still rubbish. They lost a 1/3rd of their population, which was still a accomplished amount among the market. The main reason (I think) people left for WoW was the success of the Warcraft IP, through Warcraft 3. Star Wars and Warcraft IP's clashed and Warcraft's just had a tighter hold on people from W3 and TFT.
Eh, I'm talking about 2005, and the SWG team itself got worried about the rapidly decreasing population where other MMO's seemed to thrive, enough that they decided to drastic countermeasures like the NGE (which admittedly, was the wrong one to make).
Also, I'm not applying today's market trends, because if I did I'd say that 150-200k was still a good number to have, and that they should already be happy that they had such a number after 2.5 years.
The reason you give for why they were leaving isn't relevant in this situation, the fact is that people left SWG in droves with the newer kids on the block: not only WoW btw, we had entire major guilds move from SWG to EQ2, a lot of SWG players were also EQ fans so when EQ2 came out a lot of former EQ fans wanted to be there.
I mean, it's all understandable certainly looking at it with the increased knowledge of 6 more years of MMO history: with the new kids on the block, especially with an EQ2, WoW and not to be completely neglected a GW, SWG was bound to lose a lot of players, just as DAoC and EQ. However, that doesn't change the fact that SWG's peak had passed and the decline had set in. And more than 1/3 player population in a year is a lot to lose, even before an NGE.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
an appearence is a tab in your character screen that lets you equip items that you can choose to see on your character but offer no stat benefit. say you got some set at a low lvl that you really liked the look of but the stats weren't good enough anymore, well an appearance tab lets you equip those and see them but get stats from other gear. lotro has a great appearance tab setup(imo)
an appearence is a tab in your character screen that lets you equip items that you can choose to see on your character but offer no stat benefit. say you got some set at a low lvl that you really liked the look of but the stats weren't good enough anymore, well an appearance tab lets you equip those and see them but get stats from other gear. lotro has a great appearance tab setup(imo)
so youre wearing one set of gear for the visuals and another for the stats? interesting, never seen that before (didnt play lotro)
I'm a huge Starwars fan but I feel SWTOR doesn't do justice that the IP deserves. I'm really bummed about the wasted potential this game could have had.. Oh well.
They just didn't sell the game's positive side to me.
Comments
I suppose you are right. But for me, games not "good or bad", hence I put them in quotation marks. Many games have some cool and some terrible aspects. Then it is Star Wars, and I am a HUGE Star Wars fan. If it were any other fandom or random background I would maybe skip TOR altogether. But it IS Star War, so I can't avoid it. In the immortal words of Admiral Akhbar:
"IT'S A TRAP!"
At least for me. ^^
Also, this is a forum to talk about our hobbies' likes and dislikes, innit? *shrug* I mean, we will spar and fight over our opinions and afterwards laugh it up and drink a beer together. Probably in some Mos Eisley cantina, if we are lucky.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Sorry to break it to everyone but your never gonna get a mmo with the graphics of crysis it just isn't possible it have to much lag client and server side unless u like pvp being 1v1 in an instanced arena or loading every 20 steps like aoc. I prefer 1 loading screen fo my world 1 for my dungeon and thats it loading breaks immersion.
Also everyone keeps saying guild wars 2 will be a savior to mmos which is a laugh cause right now guild wars 2 is vaporware to me they havent said anyting about the game since they showed a person questing which looked like a better version of warhammer pqs which means they still didnt change questin at all.Also they broke the holy trinity with no healers which means pots will be the main source of healing cause u cannot have a game where u have no way to heal yourself sorry it doesnt work.
Ps SWTOR is still almost 6 months to maybe another year before it even going to come out. They are still in the friends and family only beta phase. The savior guild wars 2 imo has already been canceled and they just havent told us yet.
actually that hasn't been true for close to a year now.
http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20100709_002
they have been fairly small testing groups(largest at once has 1000 people) but it has been people outside of bioware and their friends and family
@OP: well, SWTOR is of the family of WoW-styled themepark MMO's like a LotrO, Aion, Rift, etc, so you'll have sandbox fans and people who've gotten burnt out on those MMO's insta-hating SWTOR, that's easy to see, in this thread alone.
As for your arguments:
sandbox: sorry, has been tried, quite some people liked it especially on this site as 'home for the homeless' sandbox MMO drifters, but SWG didn't reach and maintain the high numbers, it had a rapidly shrinking population when it became dwarfed by newcomers. So, SWTOR will try a themepark SW MMO, we'll see how successful that will be but my guess is it'll prove that SW as a themepark MMO draws a hell of a lot more people than Star Wars as a sandbox MMO did.
graphics: SWTOR is imo like LotrO here, environment graphics are superb but character models less so. Anyone who complains about SWTOR's environment graphics I just can't take seriously anymore, it should be obvious that they're among the best. Just look at Aion's cities or even a Tarantia in AoC or TERA's and Rift's cities and then at Coruscant, and then tell me that SWTOR's graphics suck and that the graphics of other MMO's are so much better.
quests: another area that sandbox fans don't care about, so they'll hate any improvement upon it. Why do I say 'sandbox fans'? Because you never hear the biggest and loudest complainers say 'I want quests to stay as they are! Textbased and no decisions possible!', because they know how foolish they'd sound. Instead you hear them complain and give reasons like... sandbox features, and how 'a player should be able to make his own stories bla bla' nonsense. As if having story immersive quests will prevent you from doing that any more than questing and quest leveling in other themepark MMO's.
Again, it's hard to take sandbox fans seriously if they won't admit that it isn't story in quests that they dislike, but just themepark design in general and questing as a core part of it, so they'll hate any dev attention that goes towards improving the questing experience, because in their eyes it's a waste of resources. After all, they don't care about themepark design and quests anyway.
As for the combat and endgame content part, yeah, I would have seen things rather differently, although not everything is revealed yet regarding endgame and pvp content, so we'll see how that ends up. But so far, no major innovations or breaking away from the standard here.
So, my conclusion (tldr): SWTOR will be insta-hated by jaded MMO vets who cannot enjoy MMO's anymore unless they're radically innovative or different and sandbox fans for everything that SWTOR represents, the current themepark design model they've grown to hate because it has oppressed their kind of MMO's. My guess is that the majority of the loudest complainers here in this thread and others fall in one of those 2 categories.
People who can still enjoy current AAA titles and haven't gotten burnt out will have those issues far, far less.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
cap 80 inv, unknown if backpack, unknown ship cap, unknown if bank, Damion didnt say anything about capacity (the inv cap was obvius)
AoC and ArcheAge come to mind...
Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW/GW2 - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW - TSO - WS - ESO - AA - BD
Playing: Sims 3 & 4, Diablo3 and PoE
Waiting on: Lost Ark
Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?
I think what pisses off people on this site the most about SWTOR is that its not Star Eve Ultima Wars Galaxies Online.
What really gets me...is that the game doesn't have a release date and people are so definitive about how some of the features are, and how bad the game fails already..
aoc loads every 20 steps like i said and archage is using the old version of a heavly reprogrammed cry-engine and it also looks no where near as good as crysis 2 on max settings. Also aregage is a sandbox games which means they wont get over 100,000 subs if that. Sandbox games are for lazy developers that can't come up with a decent story. and i am pretty sure archage will have a ton of loading screens like aoc but hey if u like looking at loading screens more power to yah.
Why do you intentionally disregard time in your assessment as SW sandboxes as a failure? SWG was broken into a themepark before MMORPG genre became mainstream enough to get the kind of numbers that MMOs get today. Sandbox is NOT the reason SWG died, I'm sorry, you're wrong.
If SWG were polished in its original sandbox form, with some of today's content and items, it would be a monster and everyone knows it.
This post is sickening.
Reminds me of that great quote from Billy Madison.
"What you just said...is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought, Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points...and may God have mercy on your soul."
Agree with the OP on most points.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
I know what you mean
some people want to ruin the immersion of the game cuz they hate it,
or they think that will take players from their today MMO
some people want some issues from others MMOs that they played and liked them, so want them into this game
some people they will play the game without those that liked in other MMOs just because they dont care so much for them
some will bored soon ,others will find it extremly good
some will like the PVE, some will like the full voiced e.t.c.
Even the gameplay and classes balance for some arent reasons to quit a game
The only problem that we all hate (and will make us leave) is the long way unfixed bugs and the daily lag
there is no "backpack" where you buy more bags to increase its size. you just open the inventory screen and it has an option at the bottom of it to increase its size and that cap is as he says 80. and you are right, he doesn't say cargo hold size but is that truely something that needs to be known before you get in game?
if its not at least 60 slots on not gonna play the game ...
Few things to add:
BioWare do know the space shooter is a miss.
The heroic proportions are far from pleasing the majority of the players
Wow in space: we have blood elves, warlock suits and huge shoulder pads.
Crafting looks unappealing : select companion - click button to have them automatically do something - get results
PvP warfronts: (for now) limited to 8 vs 8. Look very small.
Boss fight is indeed many players against one boss. Who said heroic yet?
Top of that some of the features that we know won't make the game (at least at launch):
Swimming
Third party addons
Minigames like Pazaak, Sabac or Holo-chess
Dual spec
Day/night cycles
Non humanoid based playable races
Multiplayer space content
3d space combat
Choice of space ship chassis
Decoration mechanic for personal ships
Pod racing
Player bounties
Companions in Warzones
Companions body/race customization.
Animal based pet classes
Resources for crafting does not have quality
Guild leveling system
Animal mounts
Planetary housing
Not confirmed:
Appearance tabs
Gear Dyes?
Display pets?
=> Remove SW from the title of the game and think about it.
Yep, I spot a sandbox fan, which automatically explains your stance towards SWTOR, so far I guess I'm right
As for SWG, I'm sure that to people like you SWG wasn't a failure. However, it never brought the numbers and success that was expected from such a major franchise even in a time that there was hardly any competition. And even more, for a year before any NGE it started to decrease in population, rapidly, as soon as Everquest 2 and WoW had arrived.
As devs have stated, the whole NGE thing was a reaction upon their rapidly shrinking population, even before an NGE they'd already lost more than a third of their total population and it started with EQ2 and WoW on the scene.
If they had left things as they were, this downward trend wouldn't just have stopped magically. Sorry, mate, the Star Wars as a sandbox MMO has been given its shot, it gave its best, so let it rest in peace.
It's time to see how Star Wars as a themepark styled MMO will do.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Since we can have 8 chars per server, i want to know at least (i'm mostly sure, but a confirmation will be pleassed) if we can transfer items between those chars, so i can create all 8 from the start to proceed for more slots in all of them
(also hope that we can transfer BoP items too)
Still, trying to apply today's market trends to 2003 and saying it was "a sinking ship" is still rubbish. They lost a 1/3rd of their population, which was still a accomplished amount among the market. The main reason (I think) people left for WoW was the success of the Warcraft IP, through Warcraft 3. Star Wars and Warcraft IP's clashed and Warcraft's just had a tighter hold on people from W3 and TFT.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
ah i see. well no wrod on any kind of shared storage at this time. only option we know of right now is to send stuff through the mailbox and no idea if that would work between factions
since we have ship storage and we can use it as public to others can vizit them, maybe they manage them that we can admin our alter chars so with everyone of them to pick/drop items in every ship, the mailbox looks too old fashion way, but both ways will be doing fine.
Since we can have both factions chars in 1 server i dont see any reason not let us transfer items between our chars no matter what
what do you all mean by appearance tab?
Eh, I'm talking about 2005, and the SWG team itself got worried about the rapidly decreasing population where other MMO's seemed to thrive, enough that they decided to drastic countermeasures like the NGE (which admittedly, was the wrong one to make).
Also, I'm not applying today's market trends, because if I did I'd say that 150-200k was still a good number to have, and that they should already be happy that they had such a number after 2.5 years.
The reason you give for why they were leaving isn't relevant in this situation, the fact is that people left SWG in droves with the newer kids on the block: not only WoW btw, we had entire major guilds move from SWG to EQ2, a lot of SWG players were also EQ fans so when EQ2 came out a lot of former EQ fans wanted to be there.
I mean, it's all understandable certainly looking at it with the increased knowledge of 6 more years of MMO history: with the new kids on the block, especially with an EQ2, WoW and not to be completely neglected a GW, SWG was bound to lose a lot of players, just as DAoC and EQ. However, that doesn't change the fact that SWG's peak had passed and the decline had set in. And more than 1/3 player population in a year is a lot to lose, even before an NGE.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
an appearence is a tab in your character screen that lets you equip items that you can choose to see on your character but offer no stat benefit. say you got some set at a low lvl that you really liked the look of but the stats weren't good enough anymore, well an appearance tab lets you equip those and see them but get stats from other gear. lotro has a great appearance tab setup(imo)
so youre wearing one set of gear for the visuals and another for the stats? interesting, never seen that before (didnt play lotro)
I'm a huge Starwars fan but I feel SWTOR doesn't do justice that the IP deserves. I'm really bummed about the wasted potential this game could have had.. Oh well.
They just didn't sell the game's positive side to me.
The only thing that irks me is the amount of pessimistic doom and gloom crap.