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You know what irks me the most about TOR
Elikal
Member UncommonPosts: 7,912
You know what irks me the most about TOR, it's the damn mediocrity on the most expensive title of all times. I mean, I really do not count myself in the hater corner; though if you totally adore every thing from TOR, it prolly looks like that relatively from where you are standing. I mean, I am sure story and decisions are cool and several other aspects and decisions are as well. But as we get closer to launch and more and more details become visible... I am just again confirmed how much TOR is mediocre in almost every other aspect than story.
And I wonder how this can be? I mean, if you invest SO MANY dollars, now matter how many exactly, and if you make the next STAR WARS MMO... don't YOU expect... I dunno... more? I mean, come on. It's EA, Bioware, Starwars and tons of dollars... and this is it? I am really not saying I hate TOR. I am 100% going to buy it and likely play at least one or two class stories through. But everything is so average.
- Graphics: It remains one of my biggest complains, and even if you tell me 1000 times they don't look so bad. No they do not! But they do NOT look breathtaking either. I mean we get so many impressions that the visuals look "competent but hardly breathtaking" (gameindustry.biz) and similar stuff like "if it weren't Star Wars it would be less impressive". (Massively) And that is what I see too. You know, if *I* were in the seat to make the next big MMO, the next Star Wars, dammit, I would make the frigging BEST TOP NOTCH visuals possible! Graphics to make people wet their pants and kick them out of the shoes! Visuals to REALLY REALLY impress. Think of Crysis! Or heck, think of Witcher 2! (Just for a minute compare the lush details of Witcher 2 with the lackluster, sterile world of Dragon Age 2!) I just don't get it why Bioware made just.... this? I mean, again, it's not bad, but surely nothing to write home about in terms of graphics.
- Combat: It's just the same critique as with graphics. They look ok. But dagnabit, it's Star Wars, it that 100-300 million dollar game and THAT'S IT? Thats the best combat you could come up with? I mean, again, it's ok. But the repetitive pew pew and the nailed to the ground mobs really isn't kicking me out of my shoes. And blast for that huge game, for Star Wars, for a really Triple A... this combat is just lame. I am sorry to say if that hurts your feeling, but it's true. And again, I wonder how that could happen? I mean, they have all the money, they have good people they have TIME, and this is all? This combat is so like Everquest from 10 years ago! Stand there, shoot around and repeat. There is nothing new or inspired in this combat at all. It's just a Starwarsy WOW sort of combat. Stand there, shoot your abilities, rinse repeat.
- Quests: Way back one of the SWTOR developer said, that we are NEVER going on such mundane quests like kill 10 rats in TOR. Never. And now if you look at the quests, it's EXACTLY like that. Yes, there is Granny Sithlord telling you 5 minutes about her life and her elaborate background story and then you have the choice to say something nice or something mean (huzzah!) but in those remaining 95% of the game you still will walk around with a shopping list and kill the 10 womprats in Granny Sithlord's cellar and she's going to reward you with a nice womprat-pie STR+10 for 60 min. I mean, what happened to this promise that we never will go to such mundane tasks? That ALL quests are going to be epic and heroic? PUFF... vanished like dew in the morning. I mean, heck, I know MMOs will always have such quests, and I didn't believe that one moment. Only that TOR is again SO average, so Everquestish. I mean, look at GW2 and the dynamic content. No matter how that will play out, at least they ATTEMPT to make something different than the neanderthal age formula of farming 10 rats standing there! And with such a budget I'd just expect more than that.
- Endgame: So the truth is out. Endgame is WOW. Period. I mean, maybe they still have a few aces up their sleeves, but from here it looked pretty much like WOW Endgame. Grind Raids and grind dungeons for Gear of Tier1,2,3 asf. ad nauseam. Yes, they have story. Someone will tell you a cool story why you are there, and that sure is cool and fascinating for the first 2 or 3 times. Of the 2000 times you are going to grind that dungeon for your Tier 3 gearset.
- No Sandbox whatsoever: When TOR was announced, the Bioware devs said TOR was going to be no Sandbox and no Themepark, but a mix of both. It was a lie. TOR is a 100% Themepark and entirely DEVOID of ANY Sandbox elements! I mean, I love themepark questing, but to keep people playing a game in the long run, JUST having endgame gear grind and grinding the same 5 endgame dungeons hundred of times is SO not everyone's pair of shoes. And what better to keep people entertained a longer time, as to add *some* sandbox elements. But truth is, unless we are yet to hear surprises: They ain't there. You have your story quests and the rest is figleaf-there. There is figleaf space, figleaf-crafting, figleaf-hosuing and the game is almost entirely empty of anything NOT involving killing stuff. And Sandbox elements just remain the best receipe for longevity! I mean, what am I do to otherwise if my 200 hours class story are over?
I know it will come over as rant, and it prolly is. But now that most of the cards have been revealed I can't help but feel let down. I mean, sure it will be a nice and decend game. I am going to play it a while. But why Bioware aimed for so little in so many core areas... it's something I just don't get why.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Comments
Wall of text crits you in the eye for 83 lines.
Though, agree on some points.
I'm glad you were able to refrain from the 300 million dollar claim in this rant.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Oooh, so you played the game?
"I don't give a sh*t what other people say. I play what I like and I'll pay to do it too!" - SerialMMOist
You know what irks ME the most about TOR? Jawas.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
With my Tardis, anything is possible. =P
It's alway so inspiring how many people are fond of one-liner replies. I'd suggest if that's all you guys have to say you try a cereer as comedian and stop bothering forum debates.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
The one in your sig is mighty creepy!
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Agree on all points except two.
1) I won't be buying it (It's just not a game for me, story in MMOs are pointless)
2) Graphics. The graphics are intentionally lower quality to allow more access to the game. They want to sell millions of copies. Millions of people don't have top of the line gaming PCs. So they met in the middle with... well... basically 2005 character/mob models, with 2009 environments (that are beautiful). It isn't that they don't have the budget for amazing breathtaking photorealism. It's that doing so would be cutting off their own leg in the profit department.
Yeah he looks a lot like one of the evil dwarves from the film Phantasm.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
I agree on some of your points as well, I am definitely going to be playing the game and most likely I will be playing it for many years to come, however I remember them saying we won't be doing kill 10 rats and yet some of the first quests you get are to kill 10 something, which I find disappointing and I hope that after you get off the starting planets that the variety in mission types opens greatly, it's something we won't be able to tell until we play through the game.
The thing I've been looking forward to most though is the story, and everything that goes with it. I disagree with the guy who says that story in an MMO is pointless, because it depends on the MMO. There's no excuse for the progression of an MMORPG to not play like an RPG and have a strong storyline, every MMO coming out next year and after will have one. It's a long overdue change to the genre.
Yeah and I am sick of so many people on these forums expecting the Almight to bring them the game of all games. All games that have released or will be releasing in the next year or so have been called trash, rubish, kid's stuff, and more. Nothing seems to sastify the MMO gamers of today.
I look for 1 thing. IS IT FUN? Because of that I have had so much fun in many games. When it stops being fun, I move on.
So yeah I have started doing one-liner replies. I guess I am just tired of all the DOOM people post about upcoming games.
Either way, it's your choice to like something or not from screenshots and videos. I prefer to wait until I get my hands on the game. If I feel compelled to post what I like and dislike about it, that post will be from experience of the game and not from guess work.
"I don't give a sh*t what other people say. I play what I like and I'll pay to do it too!" - SerialMMOist
Don't have to.
Seen the vid's at E3, and previous conventions, and also seen the Dev stuff.
Listened to Daniel comment many times how Blizz is 'cute' and available to Bounty Hunter characters.
Watch the YouTube vid, where the dev is commenting on the revoulutionary gameplay experience that is TOR, while his character stands there getting shot, yet his companion kills the 2 NPC's and the main isn't below 75% health.
Listen to George Zoller go on a rampage about this or that yet we see an afk character can't even go below 75% health from a static mob.
Great animations for the horn head human characters, the blind humans, the green humans, the pony tail head humans, the blue humans.. oh wait they have 'alien' species names.
Bioware is so concerned tehy are not making 'that other Star wars MMO' that they ended up making that other Star wars MMo.
SWTOR is the NGE 2.0
and before the diehard fans come in, and say something about it's not what I was expecting... ask yourself this: If it didn't have lightsabers, how much would you defend the game?
SWTOR. Face it, in the Scooby Doo Mystery Solving Van of coolness, this game is Velma. In this current MMO climate it has about as much chance for survival as a group of inquisitive teenagers in a 1980s slasher flick. -Tardcore May, 2011
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Welcome to the world of internet.
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
Honestly I agree with you. The problem I have with the graphics are that they look like the t.v. show Star Wars: The Clone Wars and I HATE that show! That is proof they are aiming towards the new Star Wars crowd, not the old.
The battle system is just like every other MMO, they have showed in many videos your powers on a tool bar numbered to 10 than multiple bars above those, the exact same as in WoW, City of Heroes, Champions, Age of Conan, Everquest, etc...its getting very boring.
However being a Dragon Age/Mass Effect player I have seen how great Bioware can make a game, but Dragon Age 2 showed that they dont always make great games, some are just barely good enough to justify paying for them, and that worries me.
Mystery Bounty
Well I don't know that I'd call myself a die-hard fan but I would still defend it because it's about time someone made an MMORPG that actually was an MMORPG. The main thing SWTOR does is bring the story and dialogue, decisions that actually impact your gameplay even at the later part of the game. This has been long over due in the genre I'm so sick and tired of text boxes and quests where you really make NO decisions and it's just a static repetitive experience.
That's of course my personal opinion. I just think there should be more (A LOT) emphasis on player interaction (economy, battle, grouping, etc) than on a linear single-player storyline like TOR. I just personally don't want that in an MMO setting. Having a rich lore with deep story BEHIND it is completely different, and is something that some MMOs out right now (WoW, GW) are good at creating as optional without forcing it down your throat.
I agree that story and choices were much needed! They are a great addition. I have no doubts Bioware will excel in that part. It's the reason why I am going to play the game.
Just the rest is... what we have seen 100s of times, and often better.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Graphics - IMO graphics quality in any game is the most subjective aspect of it. Personally i love the graphics. I absolutely hate the nop notch "realistic" graphics because they arent realistic and they bog down your system so you run like crap unless you have a $3k gaming rig. that is exactly why Bioware did the graphics the way it did, they want max subscribers and you dont get that from top notch "realistic" graphics, you get that from stylized graphics (i.e. WoW)
Combat - Combat is much more related to the feel than the look IMO, the only thing you cant tell from gameplay video and dev interviews etc is how the game actually feels, gotta play it to know that. and to me feel is absolutely the most important aspect of the game. does it feel right while playing it, does it feel slow and underwater, does it feel too fast and frenetic, or is it just right
Quests - weve seen how many quests? yes there will be plenty of "kill x mosters and you can have pie" but it would be practically impossible to fill a game with totally meaningfull non-mundane quests start to finish, if they do it in a way so most of those mundane quests are done as you are focusing on the more interesting plotline quests then nobody will notice and they will have done a great job
Endgame - it has been a safe assumption for the last 2+ years that endgame would be just like WoW. PvE focused, raids and group dungeons, and some half assed pvp content, this is nothing new
Sandbox - the second they announced the first class the posibility of a sandbox went out the window in my eyes, and if people didnt believe it then they should have when level cap was made known. i love the sandbox idea, my first MMO was SWG i played it at launch and it was some of the most fun i have ever had in MMOs. but lets be honest here, themeparks are simpler and simplicity makes money in MMOs, you can hardly blame Bioware for going after the money, thats what they are there for
There is no way you can call it mediocre at this point in time, by the time it lauches it could be an amazing game (yes, it could also suck, but point is we dont know yet) Also with the ammount of crap comming out these days mediocrity is a really low bar
and personally, i think there will be a few nice surprises in there for us that help it stand out a little bit from other games
SWG is that way ---> It still exsists in both forms if you look for it. But in my opinion, even if SOE brought back Pre-CU or Pre-NGE I still wouldn't go back because the reason I played was the community and friends. The gameplay only enahnced my fun, but never defined it. I prefered the CU version anyways.
"If you're going to act like a noob, I'll treat you like one." -Caskio
Adventurers wear fancy pants!!!
You've felt let down by everything that has come up though, why is this time any different?
Toward your end game synopsis, you can grind dungeons ad-nauseum all you want, I'll be pvping and hanging with guildies which I do in every MMO I play at end-game.
Toward questing, sure you might have to kill a number of things on a quest, the problem with traditional MMO quests is not in the activities you're doing, it's the motivation behind it. The reasoning, and way in which they present it. In TOR's case it seems most quests are a part of an expanding story-line, or one off story within the greater whole. There's a big difference between that and fetching 12 cherry pies for farmer Browns wife because the dog ate the ones she already prepared.
Graphics, meh, this is an eye of the beholder issue, I'm fine with them.
Combat, can't say haven't played it myself.
Before I call anything meidocre I actually have to play it myself, what some anaylist says or a few random people means little in how the experience feels for me.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I am really, really looking forward to SWTOR, but I agree with everything the OP wrote, when I think of how Arenanet are trying to change questing, combat, group dynamics etc, despite how I love the story and voice over content for SWTOR it is now GW2 that I think will be the best thing to happen to themepark mmos for over a decade.
I guess I am left with oddly mixed feelings how SWTOR, I don't doubt it will be great once we all get into it, but for that nagging feeling that we shouldn't get to dedicated as GW2 approaches, (or Archeage if your more a sandboxer).
Jawas are clearly superior lifeforms, and I have no doubt who the true rulers of the galaxy are.
About Endgame for you was the PVP for many others was the collections and badges which was a huge pain in the a**
as for the graphics-quests-gameplay all p2p MMOs are 95% the same no matter what everybody say
the downside for me is that has no appearance tab and we dont know the storage capacity yet (inventory, backpack, bank, ship)
What about where people with hands-on with the game state if you're not using a strategy in how you use your skills you die?
What about hands-on experiences that say the game is full of challenge, the worlds are fun to explore, and combat feels fast and fluid?
What about hands-on experiences that explain the sheer size of the worlds, the quality of the writing, that TOR is Star Wars through and through?
What about hands on experiences that have applauded the companion system and how fun interacting with them can be?
What about hands-on experiences that state companion AI is more akin to those you find in games like Mass Effect, rather than typcial MMO pets?
What about all of this? It's as useful as what you pointed it out, it still doesn't tell me how the experience will feel from my perspective. Which is the only one that matters, and the only one that can justify a need to post criticism or praise.
You can choose not to play, but don't expect anyone to take what you have to say about the game seriously after launch.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Well honestly, that's a great outlook but... you could be doing that in Ultima Online (which is 14 years old). What does SWTOR bring to your table, with that outlook, that literally every other MMO game on the planet doesn't?