Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Getting a new PC. Others' opinions?
Like the title says, I'm getting a new gaming PC. I would appreciate people's opinions on what I have picked out. Thanks
Comments
Awesome!
Black text on black background!
Bump
It will play all the games on the market if that is what your wondering...
Upgrade from 4g to 8g.
Scrap the case and get one with cable management and better airflow.
Your mobo will be cramped if you ever decide to go for a crossfire build. If you are wanting to eventually crossfire -- I'd suggest a lengthier board with additional slots .. preferably one that would enable a soundcard to be placed for increased performance. If you don't want to use crossfire ... then don't bother getting a board thats designed for it ..... it will increase the performance of the mobo at the same cost.
-------
Still reviewing -- Whats your budget?
What game you playing that takes more than 4GB and you notice a difference from 4GB to 8GB? Also, he can clock that whole system at 1333MHZ Bus the whole way through....
OP, seriously! If you have to come here and ask if its any good than I can comfortably say it is fine for you... your obviously not a computer geektoid...The only reason "I" go overboard is for bragging rights....There is a point where you won't notice performance difference.
Like people who buy a quad core when no games are even developed to use more than two cores...etc...
I assume he will be running Vista or Windows 7 , what else needs to be said?
64 bit Operating System or you just told him to thrw his money away.
I would assume he's going to be using a 64bit Os ... otherwise he is throwing his money away, considering he built this system by himself I assume he is educated enough to know that.
In which case ... upgrading from 4gb to 8gb will substantially increase performance if he ever wants to multitask while gaming, and thats not even exstensive multitasking.
Looks like a decent budget system. Good luck with it and let us know how it turns out.
If you still have time to change out parts:
Go with a WD Caviar Black instead of a Caviar Blue. You can cut down on the size of the drive to help keep the price close to the same. The level of performance on the Black series is very noticable compared to the Blue.
With that video card and CPU you can safely drop to as low as a 450W power supply (although it could limit your upgrade/reusability options). There isn't anything at all wrong with the power supply you have picked out though, and it's similar to the one I would recommend anyway (leaves you with enough room for basically any future upgrade). You could also drop the modular series and invest in some zip ties for cable management. Just presenting an opportunity to maybe save another few bucks if you needed to.
You may want to consider a different motherboard. The one you have picked out is ok for a budget system, but for about $20-$30 more you can get an 870 or 880G based motherboard which has USB 3.0, SATA 6, and AM3+ support for CPU upgrades. Check out the Asus M4A488T series, which is basically the same motherboard you have picked out only with the newer chipset. Asus M4A87T series is similar in features, and another good line to look at.
Really nice mid level gaming rig IMHO. I would offer this tho. For an extra 30 dollars "ASUS VH242H 23.6"
I do think it's worth it. Even it mean going with a really cheap case to start with. I had a very similar build for a long time, and it was a very good gaming computer. I did find that increasing the RAM from 4 to 8 GB did help the system in other area's, like having multiple apps running, but it wasn't that big a deal. Being sluggish with multiple app's was the only issue I ever had with the system, never any issues with gaming. However, I had the Brisbane chip and it only has 2 cores.
I wouldn't drop the modular if you choose to stick to that case personally , you'll need the room.
Well, for staters, an explanation of what he'll actually be running that will require more than 4GB of RAM would help
Windows 7, when settled and sucking up as much RAM as it wants for backgroung processes, uses 1.2-1.4GB of RAM. I have never seen a game that requires 2.5GB of RAM, let alone anything over. Even Civilization V, which is an absurdly intensive game on the CPU side of things, only uses about a single gigabyte, give or take.
In short, there's just no apparent reason to get more than 4GB of RAM in a gaming system right now (or 6GB if running tri-channel memory, which this system is not). There might be need later, but there's no telling how long that could be, and RAM is cheap IF and WHEN it becomes required to do that upgrade. So why bother right now?
At 8gb Ram I'm currently sitting at 1.72gb used , vista & 7 will actively seek to use as much avaliable ram as it can. I am doing light duty right now .. with only one browser open and on my gaming load which further reduces background processes.
I open Ventrilo, and steam and it jumps to 1.9gb.
Then I load W2 ... and it jumps to 3gb.
Thats a very slim gaming session for me, I also run dual montiors to keep other programs visible whilst I game. I have easily surpased the 4gb mark during my normal gaming sessions.
So why would I suggest shooting for more than 4gb Ram , I need it to keep my system performing at the level I exspect it to. Why should he not include the additional ram at the outset to ensure the system will do whatever he needs?
If we are really going to look at viable performance to dollars spent ... Drop the 7200 spin drive, reduce the gpu , keep the outdated mobo, and drop the psu.
Catch the drift?
That's a rather low end motherboard. It will work, but a lot of modern features that you may or may not care about simply aren't there.
One thing I'll mention that you likely aren't aware of is an upgrade path. If you get that motherboard, and then want to upgrade the processor in a couple of years, you'll have to replace the motherboard as well, and possibly other components. There are some motherboards on the market that will work with AMD's upcoming Zambezi processors, so if you decide you need a faster processor in a few years, you'll be able to get one without replacing anything other than the processor.
One option that is comparably low end to the one you picked, and actually a bit cheaper, is this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128504
If you want something with a more modern feature set, you could try this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131734
Or if you want both the lower price and the better feature set, you could try this open box motherboard:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130275R
It's cheaper because some else bought it and returned it, so at this point, it is "used".
If you want to get the motherboard that you picked initially, then go ahead.
-----
The memory is overpriced and doesn't specify an exact stock voltage. You can get the proper memory for cheaper:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148262
-----
A Western Digital Caviar Blue hard drive is fine for bulk storage, but it's slow, so you probably don't want to run real programs off of it. The real fix is a good solid state drive, which probably doesn't fit your budget. A Caviar Black is less slow, so your computer won't make you sit there and wait so much every time you want to do something:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136795
-----
I hate shortscreen monitors. Other people don't agree with my monitor preferences, though. I guess what matters is what size and resolution of monitor you want.
-----
$65 for a keyboard, on your budget? If you're going to use some of the peculiar features that most keyboards don't have, then go ahead. But if not, then you should be aware that you can get a perfectly nice keyboard for $20.
-----
That's a nice power supply, but it's really overpriced. You could actually get something a lot better for cheaper.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817121078
Or you could save a substantial amount of money and get a power supply that is pretty nice and still massively overkill for your system.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139020
Or you could save a lot of money and get something that is still plenty good enough for a system that will probably never draw 300 W from the power supply.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371047
-----
$17 for a mouse pad? Really? What sort of mouse and desk are you using that you need a mouse pad?
-----
You can get a higher bin of the same processor for the same price after a promo code.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103727
An extra 200 MHz in the same TDP and price is a good deal.
-----
You're missing an optical drive and an OS license. It looks like you're picking up some new peripherals, but no mouse or surge protector. That's fine if you already have them, but if not, then you do need them.
-----
On others' comments:
"Upgrade from 4g to 8g."
If Windows wants 1 GB and a game wants 1 GB, that still leaves you 2 GB for random other stuff. I routinely have Opera and Excel running at the same time as a game, and never come remotely close to filling my 4 GB of system memory.
"Your mobo will be cramped if you ever decide to go for a crossfire build."
Someone who is looking at a single Radeon HD 6850 shouldn't be worried about CrossFire. Getting a higher end motherboard, case, and power supply to support it properly can easily mean spending an extra $100 up front for an option that you'll probably never use. The only people who should look at CrossFire or SLI are those who look at a Radeon HD 6970 or GeForce GTX 570 or higher, and think, that's not good enough.
"If you have to come here and ask if its any good than I can comfortably say it is fine for you."
I take it you haven't seen some of the builds that people have posted here. The original poster's starting build here isn't a complete disaster, the way that some have been, with parts incompatible with each other.
Thanks for the well thought out input. I already have an OS license, mouse, surge protector, and a friend has an optical drive that's practically new. Regarding the mouse pad, I have a Razer Naga and I've tried every mouse pad I have in my house (4) and none of them have worked correctly with it. Unless you have any ideas on how to get it to work with those, I think I'll have to get a Razer mouse pad.
I appreciate all the links, and they definitely seem the best way to go.
I'm glad he had input in this thread that influenced some of his choices in the build, there are a plethora of ways to build a system and the fun is in the researching.
" On others' comments:
"Upgrade from 4g to 8g."
If Windows wants 1 GB and a game wants 1 GB, that still leaves you 2 GB for random other stuff. I routinely have Opera and Excel running at the same time as a game, and never come remotely close to filling my 4 GB of system memory. "
I routinely reach and exceed 4gb of memory used , its a nightly occurence for me and I actually don't multitake to the length i have seen others do so.
It still simply amazes me how quickly people will argue that 4gb is sufficient , memory being the cheapest and quickest way to beef a computers perfomance. Yet the completely ignore the overpriced marginal increases to a systems performance, which are always added into builds now-a-days, such as a Mobo with features unnessecary to a budget build, the Psu , an over the top Gpu ( Gpu's being the chief item people over spend on ) , an cpu that will be obsolute before its even properly utilized.
Yet you all still choose to argue over the cheapest, most effective increase in a systems performance ... the ram, its mind boogling.
Might I suggest that, if you can't find a surface that will work properly with your mouse, then the problem is probably with the mouse, and not the surface. Way back when we all used ball mice, there could be issues with how much friction you wanted. The mouse itself needed to move smoothly, but without the ball slipping. There were also issues with gunk getting into the mouse and messing up the mechanism that makes it rotate. A mouse pad wasn't entirely necessary, but made some sense then.
But modern laser mice don't work that way. They look to see the surface at a microscopic level, then look again a tiny fraction of a second later, and figure out how far you moved and in which direction. If you've got an unusually smooth surface, such that it will look the same at a microscopic level no matter where you are, then the mouse can't tell how you moved, so that can mess it up. Transparent and reflective surfaces can also cause problems.
But finding a surface that should work with any decent mouse isn't hard. A typical desk or table should work just fine, even without a mouse pad. Even a typical piece of cardboard should work. If the surface where you'd put your mouse is shiny, then maybe you'd need to put something on top of it that won't be reflective, but that's all that a mouse pad will do for you.
On the other hand, if the mouse itself is malfunctioning, then it doesn't matter what surface you get for it. It's still not going to work well.
-----
" I routinely reach and exceed 4gb of memory used , its a nightly occurence for me and I actually don't multitake to the length i have seen others do so."
It's possible that you have unusual needs, and run a very large program that needs a ton of memory by itself, or tend to have an absurd number of programs running at once. Neither of those are true for most people. It's also possible that you've got a ton of bloatware in the background, and could save a gigabyte or two by closing down random junk.
System memory is a case of, you either have enough or else you don't. If you need 2 GB of system memory, then it doesn't matter if you have 4 GB or 8 GB available. The only difference that will make is how much memory sits there unused. If your computer wants to use 5 GB of system memory and you only have 4 GB, then bad things happen, such as extensive use of virtual memory for things that are likely to actually be needed.
I tell you what. Try rebooting your computer. Then don't do anything with it for half an hour or so, to let Windows do everything that it wants to do. Then open up Task Manager and check how much system memory you've got in use.
I guess one way that Windows will try to use however much memory you have on some systems is prefetching. Hard drives are an intrinsically slow technology, so if it sees that you're using a hard drive, it will try to guess what you're going to load, and load that into memory. If it finds out that it guessed wrong and needs the memory for something that you're actually using, it simply dumps the prefetched data from memory and has plenty of memory available. If Windows guesses right as to what you're going to load off of the hard drive, things will load a little faster for you. The real fix is to get a solid state drive, so that when you want to load something from storage, Windows can just go grab it quickly even if it isn't already in system memory.
Windows 7 does prefetching differently from Vista, and my computer with Windows 7 has an SSD, so Windows doesn't bother with prefetching so much because it doesn't matter. I'm not sure how prefetching will show up on the physical memory usage.
Now, on a larger budget, when you're already getting everything that is really nice to have and have room left over, ti's not that hard to justify going with 8 GB of memory instead of 4 GB. Actually, if you do rebates, then it's not that hard to justify 8 GB on a smaller budget, either, if you grab this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820178333
But that's a just in case futureproofing type of thing, and not something likely to make much if a difference in the near future.
Win 7 rates its Physical memory usage diffrent from its actual used memory.
For example ... Of my 8gb 768mb is considered Free memory, which is esentially wasted memory as the system is not allocating it to anything. The majority of my memory is allocated to prefetching ( as you stated ) , while some is delegated to the background processes and actual applications in use. I am aware that the majority is used towards prefetching, but thats not factoring in to actual physical memory used during my gaming sessions. I stated before that I run light loads during gaming sessions so there is no artificial bloat in the background. As a matter of my multitasking while gaming .. I consider it extremely light ... compared to the majority of gamers I know and play with who normally have many more programs running which are actively being used during gaming.
If the Orginal poster just wishs to simply play one game at a time , with minimal multitasking or none at all .. then 4gb is enough. If he is one of the ever expanding base of users who actually utilizes his systems capabilities to do more whilst gaming.. then I would suggest 8gb ram. Its cheap ... its effective, and it is far more substantial than any other upgrade to his system. Such as a high end Gpu or as you mentioned, a SSD.
I have Win 7 64 bit, my game going, 5 internet tabs, utorrent, chat relay, notepad, calc, avast (Anti-virus) and some other trashware running and I still don't hit... Im sitting at 1.66GB used...I really don't know what you could be running beside a shit ton of viruses that eat up memory to reach 4GB... I'm floored at you guys.
I've been building and selling prebuilt computer for who knows how long and I would like to let you know that I have very few people who actually require going to 8GB, let alone 6GB.
However, given the details, I would definitely cut some money from peripheral things that you are looking to purchase such as that mouse pad (despite your issues with the mouse, which I believe are the mouse and not surface problems) and the keyboard. Understand that while the additional macro keys on most gaming keyboards are useful, they are also able to be done with as little as a macro program or even in-game keys. Removing your hands from the standard WASD or the ESDF setups can greatly hinder you upon coming back to the regular keyboard. The idea behind changing your keyboard to ESDF instead of WASD was done so that the pinky could access the keys such as QWAZ easier, hence bringing you four additional keys that do no need to be on the side of a keyboard for you. Most people (standard gaming and consumer community) do not utilize RFVTGB when using standard WASD setups, but become much more available with an ESDF setup.
What I'm trying to say, is perhaps you may want to adjust your gaming habits to not only save you some money, but allow you to invest that saved money into additional RAM that others are telling you not to get.
The RAM, while not important to you now for your needs, may not be sufficient at a later date. You more than likely, for the next four years, will never use 6GB/8GB but having the additional RAM whenever the time comes will be a hassle you do not have to worry about.
Other than that, I think that your build is decent. I would completely rework it and pinch pennies everywhere I could for my own needs, but you are not me nor am I you. My only advice of something to change in your build as an upgrade is definitely the motherboard. I build systems like this often and there usually is not a problem, but as an overall build, it would greatly benefit from jumping up to a few of the motherboards already mentioned.
Best of luck and let us know how you like it!
Doesn't matter how whimsical you make your speech sound, you still don't need more than 4GB.... just sayin.
Open everything you run...take a screenshot and prove to me how you are even filling up 3GB of memory...go try it now...
Oh and might I add, while you are playing an engaging video game.
I don't get viruses , nor any other meritless software.
All of my peripherals run their own software , inluding some alternate software running for my headset. ( You never know when a voice mod will be fun ) I typically have one or two voip programs open dependant on what i'm playing. Firefox is always running .. with several other mods attached which surely factor in. Theres the typical security software, sometimes pandora or itunes. Games are mostly fps's or mmogs , rarely do I have more than one running at a time ... unless I am in a mmog multi boxing.
I still don't understand your vendetta against 8gb of ram ..... when clearly there are better choices made in the refrenced build to adjust costs on bloated hardware. Atleast you can utilize more than 4gb ... so the money isn't wasted as you suggest.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/842/only4gbneeded.jpg/
Believe me, I have many things that require RAM. Although you may not require 4GB, does not mean that others do not. This machine only has 9GB right now and will have 24GB in a few days coming for MY uses. Not yours, MINE.
I constantly play with more than one client of games or multiple games going at the same time. I run graphic intensive sites that require heavy caching and am always running multiple avenues of communication. Simply put, I use more than 3GB on a daily basis. I use more than 4GB on a daily basis. And at night, while rendering video, transferring data from drive to external, and running games over night, I am always using 9GB.
What may be useless to you is not always useless to others.
Thank before you become hurt. This is not the thread to do this, but as proof of operation, I have provided a screenshot of my regular applications open and other things that require memory.
Aside from probably 4 or 5 services which take up no more than 50MB in total, I am familiar with every single task/service running and their needs for my daily life.
Next?
Not realistic, get a life troll. I laughed when I seen all the services running in your startup.......... Dude your not gaming with all that shit running..... who does that then complains there computer is slow or the game is not running great....oh yeah... people like you! ROFFLE, you seriously made my day, hell my month... Im a technical guru and I bet even the guys over at Nasa are having a laugh at that screenshot too...
I'm running at 4.18gb used right now .. the rest is cached to prefetching.
Applications running over my idle 1.6-1.72gb used : SC2 , Win Live email ( I'm at work ) , Two Firefox's , Ventrilo , Itunes and Mspaint.
You can exspect it to drop marginally when I shut my office down for the day, as soon as my buddies are ready to go for the evening you can exspect to have 2-3 voips running instead though.
Tekk actually doesn't have that many programs running in his startup , its probably to many for people who only run 4gbs though. We don't complain because we built our systems to be able to handle the load ... imagine that. My system doesn't so much as stutter when I'm gaming .. or I upgrade.
Excuse us for actually utilizing the systems we built ?
( Just shut Sc2 down ... it was using atleast 1.8gb ram, never knew )