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How to fix low-sec... ?
mm0wiggins
Member Posts: 270
Anyone who's played EVE for any reasonable amount of time would probably agree that Lowsec as a whole is broken and almost useless.
As it is now, the only reasons to be in lowsec are:
- If you're a pirate
- If you are hunting pirates
- If you need to cross lowsec to get to nullsec or highsec destination
There is a slight (very slight) difference in rewards from missions that take place or start in lowsec, compared to highsec missions, and considering how much isk is invested in the right ship and fittings to run lvl 4 and lvl 5 missions, the payout simply does not justify the risk of running missions in lowsec. SO....
That brings me to my point and the idea I have for CCP. I just would like to know how this would float with other EVE players on this site.
The idea is pretty simple. Significantly increase the rewards from Lowsec missions. I'm not saying a pilot should be able to run a mission in lowsec and become rich from just that one mission. but, it should be a rather hefty reward for the risk.
On avg, a mission runner spends anywhere from 300mill - 1bill in ship and fittings to proficiently run high level missions. The typical payout from these missions are anywhere from 10-40mill (the high end of the spectrum is if the player spends the time to loot and salvage the wreckage.) - I would think a reasonable payout for lowsec missions would be around 100mill-200mill per mission. This is still not necessarily covering the cost of the equipment used to complete the mission, but seems to me, enough to justify the risk. Mission runners are used to running multiple missions back to back at some point, and this would add up pretty nicely after a few successful completions...
Now, on the realistic side of it - how would this effect the universe of EVE? The first arguement i've encountered is a good one, but not a gamestopper imo. That is, "What about the pirates that flourish/live in lowsec? That means they automatically get wayyy more isk when running missions than everyone else does" -- a fair perspective.
I have more than one opinion/response to this arguement:
1) Great! Pirates typically loose more ships than people in highsec, and it would be pretty cool to give them a more accessible means of sustaining their EVE lifestyle.
2) Great! Lowsec living is dangerous, and deserves more of a reward for success than high sec living provides
3) Great! Fair trade. Highsec pilots have access to plentiful, lowpriced, convenient and accessible markets, while the lowsec pilots get more reward for running missions in dangerous space. (since their security status is too low for safe travel in highsec)
4) Shennanigans! Why not just place some sort of system that regulates access to lowsec agents, making it impossible for players with or below a certain security status to accept these missions. As well as not being able to "share reward" with a pirate in fleet that otherwise wouldn't be able to accept the mission themselves. This would take care of some of the exploitation risks.
5) What if the lowsec missions were to actually hunt and kill players with negative security status? paying out higher amounts on the lower security rated players. -10 security status kills paying the most. (with some sort of anti-exploitation systems in place, of course... unlike the joke that is currently called "bounty")
Well, crap.... now it's almost time to go home (i'm at work) so I'm going to cut my responses short, to that arguement.
Anyways, the other side of what I think such a change to mission rewards would do is stimulate activity in lowsec. Currently, it's pretty dull and empty most of the time. Of course, I'm not speaking of EVERY lowsec system... definitely not the ones in a market pipeline, or nullsec route.. those are pretty populated... with pirates.
I just think a change like this would surge the pvp activity as a whole a bit more in EVE. More people in lowsec... less issues of blobs controlling lowsec gate entrances... more challenge for people who run missions... more fun all together for mission runners.... more targets for pirates to shoot at....
more risk for pirates, being that it wouldn't constantly be the 20 pirates vs 1 guy who should have known better than to leave highsec....
I dunno... I have more detail to provide, and more to talk about, but for now, as I have to leave work, I would like to hear some of your opinions. I'll be back to check in a little bit.
EVE-For-Life.
o7
This is not a troll, flame, or anything else worth banning me over. It is simply my pure opinion, and I have a right to share it.
Comments
I agree with you that the rewards from various PvE activities in low security space should be increased. I don't believe it should come in the form of missions though. Most missioners, at least the ones capable of doing low sec missions, inherently take the least amount of risk in general. Increasing rewards will not get a lot of these people out of high sec or deep in null, surrounded by 40 blue systems. If there amazing exploration finds, I think a few more people might be out there.
To be honest, low sec is kind of stuck, as there is not much can be done imo to make it more attractive pve-wise. You can just stay in high sec and live that life, trek on out to null sec and reap the rewards, or live in wormholes, getting nice rewards from those. Why go to low sec heh.
Lets not forget Faction Warfare though. This is what low sec should be about IMHO. FW has always been half-finished, it just never got to where it should have been. They could add a lot of content to FW, giving more stuff to do, adding to the RP aspect of it, and low sec would be more popular. You can already make good isk running FW missions in low sec, but still not enough people do them. More FW PvP content, low sec would be nice.
this comes up alot. I have suggested several fixes on the official eve'o however...you could do a few things. I have suggested moving the low ends lo sec and completely removing the recycle function from hisec station overviews. If you could only get trit/pry/mex from lo sec...you would please the mission runners b/c they don't have to mine.
You would piss off the miners, but I have a solution for that too. So..you move low ends to lo sec, so then increase fuel costs for ALL cap ships so flooding the market from null sec would increase in fuel costs.
The longer I have played, the more I am leaning being able to setup bubbles in .1 or .2 systems. I think that should be TRUE lo sec vs lo sec. You could also move all ice to lo sec. No ice in null sec nor in high. That's an increase right there. If you have to go into a losec system and mine ice you will need help. You will need to *gasp* organize a team to do it. Seeing as all the POS's require fuel it shouldn't be anything new to the existing alliances now.
I use to think they should move all the level 4 agents to losec but they fixed that. Lo sec by it's very nature will always, always have a place. I think CCP should reexamine how to make lo sec viable. Introducing new content is a solid option, but why not move something that already exists in game without pissing off the carebears?
Lo sec is the reason many hisec dwellers actually join corps. I used to think it was b/c they were mission runners, miners, etc...but no not really. It's b/c dipshit wanna be griefers wardec them and then they need friends. I personally think this is pitiful, but I understand why they do it.
Lo sec was the first place I ever was killed. I don't want to lose the feeling of "i'm going down a dark alley" feeling when I jump into losec. Lo sec is why many vets are still playing EvE. It really doesn't need to changed much...just add a few incentives that already exist in game.
How about making walking in stations/capt quarters only available in losec systems to start with? There are literally thousands of things they could do. Move all the manufacturing or research agents to losec. Risk adverse people will cry no matter what happens...so worrying about that is pointless.
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die
Hiatus: EvE
Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh)
Interested in: better games in general
If the only fix to make people go there is to literally force them there by making it either Impossible or just plain rediculous to do it any other way, its a bad fix.
Right now low sec has the odd issue of having nothing going for it except FW. To force something that already is elsewhere into low sec and make it either exclusive or close to exclusively Low-sec will piss more people off then it will do to improve low sec.
My idea was to push a combination of things for mining into low-sec. "Ultra-dense" low-end ores and access to high ends in some quantities spawn in regular belts and a greater chance to get high end signature belts.
In addition to that much more powerful gate/station guns. Nothing sub-cap should be able to solo-tank them period. Low-sec gate camps should be a concerted effort that is easily detected on the map by a large blip on the players in system filter.
I think you’re defiantly on to something.
I don’t think this is something you could do as part of the normal agent/mission system. It would need to be tied to something else IMO, and I agree with the other poster that FW is probably the most likely candidate, but it could be any number of things.
For example, it could be a special option that is open corporations from time to time, or under certain circumstances, and they could choose to do it or not.
I think it would need to have a few characteristics. Content that would draw people into the region, as opposed to being for the region. Content that would require at least 4 to 5 players and was scalable. Content that was random and highly lucrative.
Just an example, say there were 2 agents for every empire that only offered missions to corporations that meet certain requirements, and during certain windows. The missions would only be in low sec and approach sleeper level difficulty, and could have the potential for high end drops. The actual reward would be far more than anything currently available, and help people regain standing quicker.
i like that idea of the roids,
ultra dense low end and small quantities of high end ore
but on the same not, i would simply shove the lvl 4s and 5s into low sec period... leave 1-2-3 to high sec... and 4-5 to low sec
this will stop the ridiculous cash flow one can get from solo (sometimes 1/2 AFK) mission farming in the safety of high sec
(even those who say high sec isnt safe... unless you got a suicide BS fleet on you, be smart and learn to play and you will have no problems... (besides to get a suicide fleets out of their favourite gatecamp, you need to be carying some crazy shit in your hangar... (which breaks the rule of Dont be stupid
Fairly sure the CSM has been pushing low-sec fixes for a while now. Perhaps CCP will eventually do something about it once they've caught up to current iterations as they've stated.
well the issue with forcing lvl 4s into low sec (lvl 5s pretty much already are low sec only) is that most missioners wouldn't waste time on them period. The amount of money you make off them isn't large enough to make grouping worth it, and going solo in low sec with a decient fitted mission ship while it isn't impossible wouldn't be more efficent. Remember that one other player in system and you need to get safe, that happens easily enough and often enough that the isk per hour ratio drops below what you could do running lvl 3s.
Now making sure all lvl 5 missions are low sec only and a combination of increasing the payout to make them better than lvl 4s in isk/hr and switching over to sleeper AI in the missions so pirates warping in don't get a free turkey shoot on the missioners might be an option. That also would be a nice improvement to something that is pretty much low-sce only to make it worth it.
Stopped reading there, sorry.
How's this:
New Vanity items are only craftable in low sec, at low sec stations, using ore only found in scan sites in low sec. Also, you need AUR in the refine process).
would that work?
there are literally thousands of ideas/suggestions that could be viable. You have to consider it from CCP's point.."how will this impact our paying customers?" As they have a large amount of customers that reside exclusively in hi sec, you have to be careful about what you select to move or include.
I suggested a long time ago, prior to FW ever existed...that they should make lo sec policed by respective factions. If you did this..You would see a more balanced trade hubs...even though Jita/Hek/Amarr/Oursulert have been that way for a few years now.
I have a character that has pretty high standings with Caldari/Amarr and pretty terrible standings with the others. If he traveled to any hisec in gal/minmatar space ..concorde polices it. However, if he flew into a losec system, even if he wasn't apart of FW..he would get attacked.
You could move all production and invention to low sec. You would increase 100 fold the amount of traffic on all low/hi sec gates. I don't know if the hisec peeps would create such a deluge of tears on the forums that you would have to wipe your monitor to read them...but it's an idea.
I always thought if they ever introduced nebulas, low sec would be the place to have them. Flying into mist/fog to me is almost the very nature of low sec...even more so that null sec. Maybe move all PI to low sec? The list is endless...they could do it intro it on the test server and see how peeps like it...but balance is hard to find.
I hope they do something..because it's really the last place that you can stay out of politics and run small gang ops.
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die
Hiatus: EvE
Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh)
Interested in: better games in general
lowsec, ship balance, nullsec, FW (hands down the major features of the game) have been ignored by CCP for a year or two. but hey, now we have microtransactions for Incarna. thats exactly what everyone wanted.
Haha, nice. +1
In order to buff lowsec income you would have to buff nullsec income. After all, lowsec shouldn't be that big of a reward to be honest. It's like an extension of high-sec. When clowns can't hold sov in nullsec they fart around in lowsec. I don't see anything particularly glorious about that.
im going to have to dissagree with you there. there is more risk of getting killed in low sec, therefore there should be more reward.
as it stands
in a scale of danger
0.5-0.4 gate transitions (entrance from high sec to low sec) is THE MOST DANGEROUS PLACE IN EVE (generally speaking)
then its low sec
then its high sec (specific suicide ganker systems and jita)
then its nulsec (dronelands)
then its 0.0
when you "get the game" you realize that 0.0 is the safest place to be and ironically you get significantly more rewards than anywhere else in the game
low sec is the most dangerous, yet there is nothing there you cant get in high sec... thus the lest interesting place to be
0.0 space is perfect as it is, high sec i dont have issues with it, if you are stupid enough you will get ganked... i never had problems with that (then again i live in 0.0 where its safe)
low sec... needs LOTS of work
i also read somewhere either here or in official forums,
some dude was suggesting to remove the low sec completely and to add it as a contested zones between factions, as territories grow and shrink to have some lighyear distance between state borders called contested zones where its low sec, now pirates would be true pirates as they would prey on merchants trading from faction to faction... so if you want faction gear, like caldari missiles or torps you either need to go to caldari space to get them at a fair price, or pay an arm and a leg to buy them in amarr space where you are... it would add some spice to the game and a new variable to the economy...
but on the other hand CCP has to look at its finances, how many people pay money to haul shit from hita to... say vattuolen or whats that high sec high quality caldari navy lvl 4 mission hub...motsu or something...and would quit if they get a low sec slapped onto their safe trade routes
sadly once again money wins gamers loose...
That actually sounds awesome. I wish they would at least look into that =/
That does sound like a really good Idea. You could also srink Empire down to just trade/mission hubs. The area around hubs is permanently protected by concord, but the space beyond that is in a state of flux. Sometimes concord would be able to enforce law, sometimes not. But ye what are the odds ?//$%#^
^^ This. And maybe conquerable objectives, stations perhaps?
Not 100% accurate but it somewhat hit the nail on the head.
Sadly people(and CCP) still keep insisting on risk vs. reward bullshit
Null and high sec rule sets and related content makes great synergy and support ensued play style. Low sec is lacking this type of content, it has unique play style and rule set but lacks unique content that would expand on it.