In the end Money Talks. One big flop after another must say something. Maybe it's time to analyze WOW in a very different manner - copying metavalues instead of menu buttons.
delicious.
This is not a troll, flame, or anything else worth banning me over. It is simply my pure opinion, and I have a right to share it.
Nobody can deny that WoW was the biggest game on the market at one time. You would have to be a fool to say that it wasn't THE trendy game to play. You would be lying if you said you never downloaded a demo.
Those days are gone, but they did reach success that only (maybe) one other MMO company reached.
Can you talk about FPS without mentioning Call of Duty? or Halo? (bring on the exceptionists... *sigh*) no, you can't.
Can you talk about operating systems without mentioning Windows? Don't even try to say you can....
When I talk about an FPS I usually call it an FPS or a shooter, not a COD or Halo clone just because they have FPS keyboard layout and mechanics. But that is just me and all of my friends.
Me too.... *sigh* Ok, I didn't say people REPLACE the term FPS with titles of games. Come on, you can't really think that's what I was saying. This is annoying having to write it out in crayon.
Look, go to a LAN shop,or any game stopre and announce that you want to play an FPS, or even anounce that you are a developer that wants to make a new FPS, but you want input from the gamers in their on what the 'best' FPS is, and/or what FPS has features you should impliment in your game, and if the majority of those people don't mention CoD, Halo, or BF2/3 AT ALL, I'd be amazed.
No but keeping to the topic people DO use WOW clone in that fashion. Were we play an FPS that may have very similar elements to them and replicate many, many aspects of each other we still call them shooters of FPS games.... as I said, not Halo Clones or COD clones...right.
See, the problem with the use of WOW clone as it is typically percieved as a negative remark against the game it is referencing and often times JUST because the other game uses, perhaps many, similar methods. That still does not make it a clone in the same way that COD and Medal of Honor do. They were even from the same era (until modern warfare) but people don't think they are clones of each other.
Sigh...here we go again. It is not a FEAR of something being called a WOW clone or any FEAR of WOW at all. it is the total potential misconception that WOW like or WOW clone implies that is the issue.
WHY- because WOW did not invent the standards used for typical fantasy style MMOs and just because a game might follow some of those standards it should not be classified as a WOW clone in the way it is most often used now.
That is really it for me.
You're right, WoW didn't create fantasy elements. But your approach and response to what I said is exactly what I'm talking about. Automatically assuming that when someone says "wow-clone" that all they mean is "another fantasy game" is the kind of misconception that keeps the loop looping.
EQ was fantasy. UO was fantasy. DAoC was fantasy. Did they have NPCs with punctuation marks over their heads? Did they have arrows pointing out where to go to complete each step of a quest? Did they have instanced arenas where people repeat them to achieve seasonal suites of armor? Did they have seasonal suites of armor? Did they have matchmaking tools? Did they have talent trees? Did they have action bars with icons that were then copied in every subsiquent MMO title? Did they have easy/hard mode content toggles? Did they have complete lack of interest for player housing? Did they have 2 opposing factions with the same classes to choose from on both sides? Did they have expedited xp/progression systems in place? Did they leave all the exciting content for the cap level characters? did they revolve around "end game"?
Those are the things people talk about when they say 'wow-clone' -- not "oh it has magic and armor, so it must be a wowclone" that's dodging the point completely and it's really immature, imo.
I think people like that should read more of what the posters are saying and pay attention to why they are saying it, instead of picking out words they don't like being used. So unproductive, that's all I'm getting at...
No, but many single player or action RPGs did before WOW and WOW took much from some of the games you mention. It IS the standard for computer RPGs and has been for a loooooong time. We just put MMO in front of RPG.
I agree with your statement about X being so unproductive but when people read "WOW clone" that is exactly how they are reading it. The perception is considered negative and copy-cat.
RIFT is NOT a WOW clone though they use many of the same mthods of both Computer RPGs and MMO RPGs to accomplish the task. RIFT has more in common with WAR (but still not a WAR clone) than it does with WOW. The storyline and setting are entirely different. The art style is entirely different, the way classes are handled, while having similarities of the fantasy MMO genre, are different, etc.
Like your FPS (COD) reference and the comment I made there with Medal of Honor. Very similar but still different and do not deserve to be called a clone in the light that WOW clone is currently used to describe other MMOs.
Heck, SWTOR is being called a WOW clone by many. It is not.
You guys need to get past this fear of using WoW in any context. The fact is, it's the biggest player on the field, and to turn away and act like it's not is just denial and foolishness.
You think there's ANY MMO developers or executives or investors that can have a meeting without mentioning WoW?
You think any new MMO project being discussed anywhere in the industry can go full length without someone mentioning WoW?
You business-minded people who are so enthralled with the financial side, forgetting that you're gamers FIRST should know this more than anyone. It's the way it is. WoW is the biggest, most successful MMO in history, and it's still going, and it's still dominating, and it's still got more subs, etc etc etc etc.... until that changes, you should not get offended whenever someone compares features to WoW, and stop getting offended when someone says "wow-clone" and stop gasping when someone says "it does just like WoW did" .
Can you talk about FPS without mentioning Call of Duty? or Halo? (bring on the exceptionists... *sigh*) no, you can't.
Can you talk about operating systems without mentioning Windows? Don't even try to say you can....
now, does anyone agree?
[Mod Edit]
I can mention FPS without refering to Halo or CoD, because they are far from the first and far from the bests.... Everything you can do in Halo or CoD was done in a game years before they hit the market. Doom, Quake, Unreal Tournament, Duke Nukem where the games you should have mentioned. I am actually glad all of these games are making their way back to the markets so people can drop this CoD phase.
Anyways I am off-topic, slightly. WoW was a great game, and I played it for a very long time. But it was not my favorite and it didn't offer much but appeal. I grew up playing RTS games such as Humans Vs. Orcs as well as the other Warcrafts. So to me all that WoW did was put me in a different setting from the orignal game in a new genre. To expiernce the lore in a new adventurous setting was where the game got its appeal. I am sorry for all of you fanboiis who play the game for everything but the story line and can only judge the game from the point of view of spells, abilities and instances...
WoW was far from original, but good in its own setting. Just like Halo and CoD. There is nothing new about these genres, so people like you should stop tryng to relate a whole genre to a single game, when really... It comes down to a lot of different games.
I think the problem with the term "wow clone" is very simple. Any mmo vet knows that wow did not invent anything. They just took the best elements from mmos and put them together in a nice package that was appealing to millions of players. Even now Blizzard continues to borrow everything they consider interesting in other mmos. Soon after Rift released, they announced the guild challenges, a feature present in Rift at launch, and I believe the 7 daily dungeons that you can do in a week and that now can be done in 1 day if you wish was also borrowed from Rift. And before Rift, achievements in Wow were borrowed entirely from the tome of knowledge in WAR. And the list goes on.
I pretty much play every mmo that is released and I am still a subscriber to wow so when they bring something "new" I know for sure if that is true or not. They will bring the appearance tab sooner or later and that is something common in many games already. The thing is Blizzard will continue to copy or borrow from competitors just as much as competitors borrow from wow.
That's why I think the term "wow clone" is inappropriate and it's what makes some people angry. To be honest, I couldn't care less who's copying who as long as I enjoy a game.
As to why the game is still so successful, I believe that will remain a mystery, even to Blizzard. They are clearly running out of ideas judging by the recycled content they keep pumping out since Cataclysm released. Advertising Zul Gurub and Zulaman as new and exciting content is just unbelievable. PVP is still totally unbalanced, and they already gave up on world PVP, but doing Tol Barad with my friends is probably the only thing still fun in the game for me. (btw my main is Halcon on Dalvengyr server, horde side). PVE and raiding is exactly the same kind of progression we've been doing since the burning crusade. Faction grinding, same. Crafting, same. Etc, etc.
That's why I believe the ongoing success of wow will remain a mystery, even though server populations are declining already.At least on my server, it is easy for me to see the decline in the last 12 months.
Anyways, that's my opinion. Have fun in whatever game(s) you're playing. That's all it matters.
Some of you get what I am saying, and some of you are pretty far off. I'll take blame for that, since it looks as though I don't speak the same version of english as everyone else here. My mistake.
In any case... if you want to believe that Rift, or Warhammer, or EQ2, or WH40k, and some of the less successful themeparks that tried and failed are not wow-clones, or at least, attempts at wowcloning, fine. Doesn't bother me. That's not the point.
I've played every single title that has come out since 2004 that held any promise of being the next "big mmorpg", and even some that simply offered something different, but still looked curiously similar, and I saw right through the gimicks to find the meat off the same cow. "WoW did ___ so we can do it too and make a lot of money!"
I don't care what you say about business, or profits, or anything of that sort because I don't play games for those reasons. I didn't join the genre 11 years ago so I could help investors figure out what makes them money. Most of them weren't even aware of the genre back then, not until they found out 1 company made a gazillion dollars and then thought they'd jump in on the fast-track to profits. They still haven't gotten it through their thick skulls that the tracks can only fit 1 train.
Regardless, my point in the OP was that using the term wowclone, or even comparing obvious similarities to it, without using the word wowclone, still sets off alarms to those that can't handle the fact of what WoW/Blizzard has achieved, and how Devs/investors outside of Blizzard reacted to it, effecting how this genre developed ever since.
I simply don't think the level of denial makes any sense. I am not sitting here boosting WoW, those of you who've read my other posts know how much I despise what WoW has turned into.... I'm just saying, it would be nice to be able to state the obvious without people who are in denial bashing me just because i spoke of WoW at all.
This is not a troll, flame, or anything else worth banning me over. It is simply my pure opinion, and I have a right to share it.
Comments
delicious.
This is not a troll, flame, or anything else worth banning me over. It is simply my pure opinion, and I have a right to share it.
Nobody can deny that WoW was the biggest game on the market at one time. You would have to be a fool to say that it wasn't THE trendy game to play. You would be lying if you said you never downloaded a demo.
Those days are gone, but they did reach success that only (maybe) one other MMO company reached.
No but keeping to the topic people DO use WOW clone in that fashion. Were we play an FPS that may have very similar elements to them and replicate many, many aspects of each other we still call them shooters of FPS games.... as I said, not Halo Clones or COD clones...right.
See, the problem with the use of WOW clone as it is typically percieved as a negative remark against the game it is referencing and often times JUST because the other game uses, perhaps many, similar methods. That still does not make it a clone in the same way that COD and Medal of Honor do. They were even from the same era (until modern warfare) but people don't think they are clones of each other.
No, but many single player or action RPGs did before WOW and WOW took much from some of the games you mention. It IS the standard for computer RPGs and has been for a loooooong time. We just put MMO in front of RPG.
I agree with your statement about X being so unproductive but when people read "WOW clone" that is exactly how they are reading it. The perception is considered negative and copy-cat.
RIFT is NOT a WOW clone though they use many of the same mthods of both Computer RPGs and MMO RPGs to accomplish the task. RIFT has more in common with WAR (but still not a WAR clone) than it does with WOW. The storyline and setting are entirely different. The art style is entirely different, the way classes are handled, while having similarities of the fantasy MMO genre, are different, etc.
Like your FPS (COD) reference and the comment I made there with Medal of Honor. Very similar but still different and do not deserve to be called a clone in the light that WOW clone is currently used to describe other MMOs.
Heck, SWTOR is being called a WOW clone by many. It is not.
I can mention FPS without refering to Halo or CoD, because they are far from the first and far from the bests.... Everything you can do in Halo or CoD was done in a game years before they hit the market. Doom, Quake, Unreal Tournament, Duke Nukem where the games you should have mentioned. I am actually glad all of these games are making their way back to the markets so people can drop this CoD phase.
Anyways I am off-topic, slightly. WoW was a great game, and I played it for a very long time. But it was not my favorite and it didn't offer much but appeal. I grew up playing RTS games such as Humans Vs. Orcs as well as the other Warcrafts. So to me all that WoW did was put me in a different setting from the orignal game in a new genre. To expiernce the lore in a new adventurous setting was where the game got its appeal. I am sorry for all of you fanboiis who play the game for everything but the story line and can only judge the game from the point of view of spells, abilities and instances...
WoW was far from original, but good in its own setting. Just like Halo and CoD. There is nothing new about these genres, so people like you should stop tryng to relate a whole genre to a single game, when really... It comes down to a lot of different games.
CoD? DoomQuakeUnrealTournamentNuken CLONE!
Sub to me on YouTube @ http://www.youtube.com/user/JJJK29isGaming?feature=mhee
I think the problem with the term "wow clone" is very simple. Any mmo vet knows that wow did not invent anything. They just took the best elements from mmos and put them together in a nice package that was appealing to millions of players. Even now Blizzard continues to borrow everything they consider interesting in other mmos. Soon after Rift released, they announced the guild challenges, a feature present in Rift at launch, and I believe the 7 daily dungeons that you can do in a week and that now can be done in 1 day if you wish was also borrowed from Rift. And before Rift, achievements in Wow were borrowed entirely from the tome of knowledge in WAR. And the list goes on.
I pretty much play every mmo that is released and I am still a subscriber to wow so when they bring something "new" I know for sure if that is true or not. They will bring the appearance tab sooner or later and that is something common in many games already. The thing is Blizzard will continue to copy or borrow from competitors just as much as competitors borrow from wow.
That's why I think the term "wow clone" is inappropriate and it's what makes some people angry. To be honest, I couldn't care less who's copying who as long as I enjoy a game.
As to why the game is still so successful, I believe that will remain a mystery, even to Blizzard. They are clearly running out of ideas judging by the recycled content they keep pumping out since Cataclysm released. Advertising Zul Gurub and Zulaman as new and exciting content is just unbelievable. PVP is still totally unbalanced, and they already gave up on world PVP, but doing Tol Barad with my friends is probably the only thing still fun in the game for me. (btw my main is Halcon on Dalvengyr server, horde side). PVE and raiding is exactly the same kind of progression we've been doing since the burning crusade. Faction grinding, same. Crafting, same. Etc, etc.
That's why I believe the ongoing success of wow will remain a mystery, even though server populations are declining already.At least on my server, it is easy for me to see the decline in the last 12 months.
Anyways, that's my opinion. Have fun in whatever game(s) you're playing. That's all it matters.
WoW fanboys rage over new games and call them clones and what not..
WoW haters rage over that..
Its one big evil circle
Its no mystery why wow is still a success, there is no other mmorg worth going to at the moment, lucky ol blizz eh
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Some of you get what I am saying, and some of you are pretty far off. I'll take blame for that, since it looks as though I don't speak the same version of english as everyone else here. My mistake.
In any case... if you want to believe that Rift, or Warhammer, or EQ2, or WH40k, and some of the less successful themeparks that tried and failed are not wow-clones, or at least, attempts at wowcloning, fine. Doesn't bother me. That's not the point.
I've played every single title that has come out since 2004 that held any promise of being the next "big mmorpg", and even some that simply offered something different, but still looked curiously similar, and I saw right through the gimicks to find the meat off the same cow. "WoW did ___ so we can do it too and make a lot of money!"
I don't care what you say about business, or profits, or anything of that sort because I don't play games for those reasons. I didn't join the genre 11 years ago so I could help investors figure out what makes them money. Most of them weren't even aware of the genre back then, not until they found out 1 company made a gazillion dollars and then thought they'd jump in on the fast-track to profits. They still haven't gotten it through their thick skulls that the tracks can only fit 1 train.
Regardless, my point in the OP was that using the term wowclone, or even comparing obvious similarities to it, without using the word wowclone, still sets off alarms to those that can't handle the fact of what WoW/Blizzard has achieved, and how Devs/investors outside of Blizzard reacted to it, effecting how this genre developed ever since.
I simply don't think the level of denial makes any sense. I am not sitting here boosting WoW, those of you who've read my other posts know how much I despise what WoW has turned into.... I'm just saying, it would be nice to be able to state the obvious without people who are in denial bashing me just because i spoke of WoW at all.
This is not a troll, flame, or anything else worth banning me over. It is simply my pure opinion, and I have a right to share it.
That`s not gonna change mate... there will always be lovers/haters/trollers.
My sugestion for you is to ignore the reply`s you dont like and get on with your life