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PVP loss

DatcydeDatcyde Member UncommonPosts: 564

Is there any PvP loss in this game ?

Comments

  • twodayslatetwodayslate Member Posts: 724

    PVP loss of what?

  • what do you mean? are asking if you lose exp or gear or something?

  • PalebanePalebane Member RarePosts: 3,903

    What are you willing to risk?

    Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  • DatcydeDatcyde Member UncommonPosts: 564

    Yeah EXP or some other type of points.

  • the devs have not mentioned anything about this but i doubt it.  all that has been said regarding death penalty is this post by Damion Schubert, lead systems designer:

    http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5289463#post5289463

     

    I see a lot of posts saying things like 'death should have sting', or 'players should feel death'. We agree! However that being said, miscalibrating your death penalties can very insidiously destroy your game from the inside out.



    We don't want people to ignore the cost of death, but at the same time, we also don't want players to avoid taking chances. We want them to take risks. We want them to try wacky new strategies, and exotic new builds. We want them to wonder if maybe they can solo that boss creature. In the name of creating a sense of fear and risk, overly harsh death penalties can inadvertently make people stop taking them.



    To wit: too harsh death penalties can create grinding. If death sucks too much, players will stop taking on higher level creatures or even equal level creatures, and instead only take on creatures that are lower level than them - even though those creatures carry far less reward, the fact that they offer far less risk, might make them seem safer and more efficient to the player. Of course, now the player is fighting boring, ultimately non-threatening enemies, and is being bored to death.



    Harsh death penalties can disincentivize grouping. I'm sure we've all been in some pretty bad groups in our MMO playing. How likely are you to group with a healer or tank that you don't know if the penalty for failure is disastrous? How hard is it for new players to learn the skills they need to contribute to groups if other group members feel they can't risk taking on a new guy?



    Harsh drop penalties (i.e. you lose all your stuff when you die) can result in players leaving their best epix in the bank all the time. Sure, you'll PROBABLY win fully decked out in ph4t purples, but what if you don't? And just like that, your epic purple lightsaber is something you only ever equip at the bank... just in case.



    Harsh death penalties can create flavor of the month builds. If death isn't something disastrous, players will take risks and find new and exotic builds in the skill tree that continue to reinvent the game (and challenge the combat design team ). But if death is too harsh, more players will feel they have to go with a cookie-cutter template they found on a website, because it's just not worth the risk if your wacky idea is wrong.



    Harsh death penalties can ultimately force designers to make the game easier. If it takes 10 minutes to respawn after a fight or the dungeon becomes inaccessible, for example, it dramatically limits the ability for players to repeat the fight and learn it. This forces designers to make the fight easier so that a reasonable percentage of the players can succeed.



    Ultimately, we want players to play the freakin' game. We want them to group. We want them to deck out in their gear. We want them to experiment with builds. We want them to explore the nether regions of all the planets. We want to make really hard stuff for them. And we most assuredly want them to seek out challenges bigger than themselves.



    Does that mean we want the game to be a cakewalk? No, we want there to be tough fights. We want there to be complex fights that might take multiple tries to get right. We want to put in challenges for groups of players that require good tactics, good teamwork and flawless execution to pull off. But I would seperate the idea of 'challenge' and 'punishment'. I would rather our challenges be gated by whether or not you have the skill, the gear, and the teamwork to succeed than whether or not you have the credits and/or time to wait out the forced downtime in between, you know, the fun part.

  • PalebanePalebane Member RarePosts: 3,903

    That yellow text says to me:  "We don't want the players to have a choice. We know the sweet spot for death penalties and it will be ok for everyone."

    Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

    Originally posted by Palebane

    That yellow text says to me:  "We don't want the players to have a choice. We know the sweet spot for death penalties and it will be ok for everyone."

    So, I'm guessing you're all for harsh death/XP penalties in PvP?! Wow... well, good luck with that in whatever MMO you're going for image

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • skeaserskeaser Member UncommonPosts: 4,038

    Originally posted by Palebane

    That yellow text says to me:  "We don't want the players to have a choice. We know the sweet spot for death penalties and it will be ok for everyone."

    A choice of what? Easy or hardmode? I've never seen an MMO that lets you choose your penalties. Personally, I prefer harsh death penalties (exp loss, naked corpse runs, etc.) but I realize that I'm in the minority and that we just likely won't see that in a AAA MMO again. They (the devs) see these penalties as forcing players to stick to the very best builds, discouraging grouping and forcing grinding but I see it as encouraging strategy and tactics and limiting zerging. A harsh death penalty also prevents people from face-rolling to max level and ruining groups because they don't understand mechanics, which is good for the players but loses subs for the devs. Honestly, I see both sides and I don't think either is wrong but I'm pretty sure going easy on the players is the best way to make $$.

    Sig so that badges don't eat my posts.


  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194

    Originally posted by Datcyde

    Is there any PvP loss in this game ?

    If you played WoW, you know what to expect

  • PalebanePalebane Member RarePosts: 3,903

    Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

    Originally posted by Palebane

    That yellow text says to me:  "We don't want the players to have a choice. We know the sweet spot for death penalties and it will be ok for everyone."

    So, I'm guessing you're all for harsh death/XP penalties in PvP?! Wow... well, good luck with that in whatever MMO you're going for image

    I do like harsh death penalties in the games I play. If the death penalties are too easy, I will enforce my own harsher death penalties. I know not many people like that, and that's fine. I just wish sometimes that the players could decide (before a fight begins) what they are willing to risk. You want to join this battleground, you have to ante up 100g type of thing. Maybe a variety of risk, not just a variety of challenge. What good is challenge if there is no risk?

    Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  • skeaserskeaser Member UncommonPosts: 4,038

    Originally posted by Palebane

    Originally posted by MMO.Maverick


    Originally posted by Palebane

    That yellow text says to me:  "We don't want the players to have a choice. We know the sweet spot for death penalties and it will be ok for everyone."

    So, I'm guessing you're all for harsh death/XP penalties in PvP?! Wow... well, good luck with that in whatever MMO you're going for image

    I do like harsh death penalties in the games I play. If the death penalties are too easy, I will enforce my own harsher death penalties. I know not many people like that, and that's fine. I just wish sometimes that the players could decide (before a fight begins) what they are willing to risk. You want to join this battleground, you have to ante up 100g type of thing. Maybe a variety of risk, not just a variety of challenge. What good is challenge if there is no risk?

    Actually, that would be kind of cool.

    PlayerX has challenged you to a duel. <Trade window opens>. Select <potions>/<no potions>. Select ring size <small>/<medium>/<large>. Offer item/money <epics>/<golds>. Both parties accept...3...2...1...FIGHT!

    Sig so that badges don't eat my posts.


  • BarakIIIBarakIII Member Posts: 800

    Originally posted by Palebane

    That yellow text says to me:  "We don't want the players to have a choice. We know the sweet spot for death penalties and it will be ok for everyone."

    Do players ever have a choice in death penalties? No, they do not. That's a design decision every mmo developer has to make and players rarely get any sort of input on the matter.

    Where you see lack of choice in death penalties, I see choice in builds. Most every mmo out there has THE build for each class which if you don't have that build you're not likely to get invited to many groups. Heck WoW took out all choice in builds altogether. Sure you get to choose your spec, but once that's chosen there's no real choice in skill selection. What I see here is Bioware trying to make it possible to have unique but viable builds within their advanced classes. Once your advanced class is chosen, you still get a lot of choice in the skills and abilities that you can choose from. That to me is very much a step in the right direction and I really hope it works out.

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

    Originally posted by Palebane

    I do like harsh death penalties in the games I play. If the death penalties are too easy, I will enforce my own harsher death penalties. I know not many people like that, and that's fine. I just wish sometimes that the players could decide (before a fight begins) what they are willing to risk. You want to join this battleground, you have to ante up 100g type of thing. Maybe a variety of risk, not just a variety of challenge. What good is challenge if there is no risk?

    That idea actually doesn't sound bad at all, the option of raising the stakes before a fight begins. Plus the option to raise the stakes or pass just like you see with card games. I'm all for it, variable stakes battles image

     

    It would also give more worth to individual players or teams that work well together.

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • GruugGruug Member RarePosts: 1,724

    Death Penalties are a big turn off for a lot of people.

    Those of you that wish to have more people partake in PvP sure do know how to make it so more people will continue to turn their back on PvP.

    If you want "meaningful" PvP, don't do it with death penalties. Instead, make PvP have a purpose other then just "I killed you...lol..haha...you lost xp...!".

    Let's party like it is 1863!

  • Ralphie2449Ralphie2449 Member UncommonPosts: 406

    The usual subconcious feeling of inferiority making people hate pvp because it doesnt make them feel better about themselves and become hardcoar pvers is not enough so i would suggest something more harsh, like loss of xp

     

     

    Xp loss is the best penalty since it can be regained quite fast and doesnt cause huge game breaking problems

  • DatcydeDatcyde Member UncommonPosts: 564

     Ohnestly guys I've never seen any game producers talking that much about death penalty in my life.

    I think what they are trying to say is that they want the players who like hardcore death penalty and those that dont want any death penalty to meet in the middle someplace and shake hands. and then kill each other.

     

  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,362

    SWTORs approach to death penalty sounds good to me.

    Please set a sig so I can read your posting even if somebody "agreed" etc with it. Thanks.
  • GMan3GMan3 Member CommonPosts: 2,127

    Originally posted by Adamantine

    SWTORs approach to death penalty sounds good to me.

         I agree.  Go to any game with a really harsh death penalty in PvP and look at exactly what the PvP popluation is.  NORMALLY it is pretty small compared to the overall population.  No always, but normally it is.  In general, if someone feels they are going to be punished by not doing well in PvP, then they just won't PvP.

    "If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"

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