Originally posted by Novaseeker You're not really obligated to train them, in fact its a waste of time in most situations.
Uhh ... not so sure.
I'm not complaining about the skill system, I like it, but I do have to say that there is a substantial difference in training time that is measuirable even over the cost of a few months if you have 2 or 3 advanced learning skills. Learning V is a waste of time, but really the other ones that increase attributes are not a waste of time at all. The more the merrier. Once you start popping your attributes to 18-20 or higher the shaving in time to train skills to level 5 is -very- noticeable. I mean one of my friends in the game has trained 3 advanced learning skills and has implants and -- we calculated it -- he can train a race's frigate from 0 to V in 11 days total, as compared with someone with average learning skills (III and IV) who would take 13 days to train from IV to V alone. Pretty *huge* difference. Over the course of a year it will save you 100 days at least of training. Again, not Learning, but the key attribute skills, perception, willpower, memory, analytical mind ... boy oh boy when they are high (and I mean 18-20 and over) does it make a big difference in training.
Now I agree that you don't need to do this if you aren't concerned about being a speedy trainer down the road, and I agree that in the short term it is boring as heck. So what I recommend is that people switch off between training learning skills and other skills for a while so that they can stem boredom. Still, it's wise to keep track of what your friends are doing, because if your friends are training all the learning and a few advanced learning up and getting implants, you eventually will really, really fall behind them in terms of skillpoints and how long it takes to obtain more of them, if that matters to you. If it doesn't, that's great ... I think the game is designed to be fun without being worried about being the fastest skill trainer in EVE.
I have to agree with you, as i've been thinking and reading through the boards and also did a little quick math. If you trained up the advanced skills to 3, didn't train charisma at all and the actual "learning" skill it would probably start to pay off around 2 months, maybe more or less but not by much. So it's not as bad as everyone seems to make it out.
Also, like has been stated multiple times, it is indeed a good idea to break it up and train all the learners inbetween other things. It may not be the most wise choice mathematically but in reality it's a hell of a lot less boring. So invest in those learners, and the advanced ones when you can get them, but don't rush into it and take your time.
Also, I didn't really mean that the advanced skills were a waste of time altogether. What i mean, and i should have worded it a bit better, was that it's a waste of time to grind out 7 days on a learning skill when you could have trained up... say... cruiser to 3 and got into a new ship. Not that training the advanced skills was indeed a waste of time.
Inplants and all learning skills should have never been introduced in eve...that would have solved a lot of problems long time ago but for sure it would have solved the wrong direction exodus took.
For me the EVE skill system is quite well developed and i love the fact that a skill trains even when i'm ofline... some people might complain about the 20 days to train a skill... they should try Lineage 2 (if its still alive)... played that game for 6 months and it had the WORST and HARDEST lvl grined ever experienced (beside the worst farming amd bot comunity online)... 20 days to lvl a skill while i'm online/offline and haveing fun in between... or killing the same damn mob for a week or two to get just one lvl... your choice, i already made mine
Originally posted by Rekindle ......I hit the training wall. At first I liked the offline training system but 20 days to train one skill is just too much for me. What am I to do in those 20 days in the game? I respect those that enjoy the game and the idea is really neat, but waiting 20d with Skills stats @lvl 4-5 is just lame...I need to progress in game with my character and I'm not entirely sure what I'm suposed to do in days 3-19 whist I wait to go from lvl 4-5 in a given skill.
Even if that guy is not there, I will answer this anyway. I've just quited eve for that reason and reprocessed a 6 mil skill point character becaused I was totatlly fed up with numerous issues in eve-online and namely the skilling process. I am on the market for another MMORG and to never come back to eve.
The main problem and from what I read in the Dev blobs this is desired by CCP. This is the situation now in eve: new player will never be able to catch up with accounts running since the beta mod. So you have a virtual wall between 20 mil sp players and players that came last year as I did and had 6 mil sp and would not ever be able to follow these guy as I was unskilled period and without any remedy even with the advanced learnings skills and implants.
With the exchange of account system, those players are now gone and replaced by switched players. I mean seriously these guy that are doing pvp have never remotly thaught of skilling a character or mined 5 min in eve. They baught a ready skilled character and picked where another left.
So yes I totally agree with this guy. Playing eve when you are undeskilled is like aving access to everything and no be able to jack cuz you havent got the skills. As patch are going, these are longer and longer.
So for me anything is good exept boring missions in eve and mining I cant remotly stand cuz it come to that.
Consider this as a flame thrower I just dont give damm anymore.
With a 6M SP character, you can specialize in just about anything in EVE atm. The problem is, your all so narrow minded and keep the must "have everything" and "do everything" mentality you seem to adopt from games with open skill training. You have to realize that your starting stats are going to influence everything you do, alot. I have friends that haven't been playing long but have Production Efficientcy 5, Refinery Efficientcy 5 characters in large barges. They also have very skilled fighting characters and hey, here's the secret, all on the same account. Instead of getting every skill with a character who trains them slowly, they make specific characters for specific jobs.
If you wanna mine/manufacture, start a character with large amounts of intelligence/memory and do not learn unnecessary skills. Problem is again, everyone wants to have a bit of everything, I did the same thing with my original character, no, he'll never "catch up" then again, there isn't much to catch up to. I've been playing for about 7 months now and am currently working on get HAC's and Large Energy Specializations, once I get that, there won't be much in terms of weaponry that I cannot use. Sure, I can only fly 1 race of ships but, I like my ships and will not waste weeks and weeks of training to train a new race.
You gotta make decisions about how you wanna train, gizmo, you don't seem to have a clue about what direction you were going in the game. As for pvp'ers being simply people who bought accounts, ummmm ... no. My corp has about I'd say, a dozen guys with 20M+ SP's and all of them pvp with their mains, I only know of 1 guy who sold off his account. Most of the time on top of it, the people who buy the accounts are totaly newbies and end up getting wtfbbqpawned with their expensive setups/ships and great skills because they just aren't good at playing the game lol.
As for patches making it worse for new players, it is quite the opposite. The introduction of new T2 bpo's and new specializations actualy helps the new players who know what they wanna do in the game. Since the research process is a lottery, even low skilled players (who actualy took the time to train research) have the chance of getting their hands on a fancy bpo. The last patch actualy freed up ALOT of research labs and hey wait a minute, it dosen't cost 2M/day to do research anymore (yeah, used to cost alot more than it does now), this made it easier for starting up manufacturing corps to research their bpo's to be competitive on the market.
Finaly, your post just kind of sounds like, you weren't really doing anything at all in EVE but "try to catch up" to people. This is not a game to try and solo-grind your way into stardome, you gotta plan and work through the kinks. Joining a good corporation also helps since not only does it give you buddies to do stuff with (hell even mining is fun if you got alot of friends helping you out) but you also have people there to help you when your not 100% sure about what to do.
Dakilla[666] ~ The Realm ~ Level 1000 enchanter (retired) Maranthoric ~ La 4ieme Prophetie ~ Level 160 (5x) HE/Feu (de retour) Leonthoric[DDC] ~ EVE online ~ <Fire The "Laser"> (retired)
There is so much to do. You seem like someone who likes the 'grind' of skill levelling. Personally, I hate it.
Originally posted by Rekindle ......I hit the training wall. At first I liked the offline training system but 20 days to train one skill is just too much for me. What am I to do in those 20 days in the game?
There is so much to do. You seem like someone who likes the 'grind' of skill levelling. Personally, I hate it.
Originally posted by Rekindle ......I hit the training wall. At first I liked the offline training system but 20 days to train one skill is just too much for me. What am I to do in those 20 days in the game?
Originally posted by dakilla666 With a 6M SP character, you can specialize in just about anything in EVE atm. The problem is, your all so narrow minded and keep the must "have everything" and "do everything" mentality you seem to adopt from games with open skill training. You have to realize that your starting stats are going to influence everything you do, alot. I have friends that haven't been playing long but have Production Efficientcy 5, Refinery Efficientcy 5 characters in large barges. They also have very skilled fighting characters and hey, here's the secret, all on the same account. Instead of getting every skill with a character who trains them slowly, they make specific characters for specific jobs.
I had 2 accounts, one was mining, producing and the other was strictly science.
Science in eve is a long process. You have to skill the unavoidable learning skills. And you really need all of them because if you dont train social skills well you rewards arent that great. Then you have to train to level 5: mechanic, electronic, engenering and science. Then, all the other list of skills of science themselves. That is 5 month of skilling before starting any research projets. Also to move your character around you need some navigation, spaceship command and since all the agent lvl 1 for science where in low sector and I got podded everytime I showed my face there, so I train the calderi cruisers and the missiles. Missiles will be nerfed end of june... More skilling. And to have acces to those agent you need the standing to talk to that agent, so security missions. That is why I trained the calderis because it was saving me some time insteat of skilling the gunneries skills. More and more skilling. The bluprints are seldom handed and with zealous misionning you could add enoth loyalty points to qualify for the lottery for a blue print tech 2. A lottery that is some reward for grind missionning.
Ok, let say you do make it to have one of those tech 2 bluprint or bluprint copy. What do you do with it.
Might consider producing something with it. Do you have production skills? I did my other account had those. But let say you dont have production skills or a second acount. So you need those too. Here goes the specialisations arguments.
So you need some mining skills for the minerals, production skill, industry for skilling those, production effecency to some level, research if you have a BPO, and the components for producing some product and selling it on the market. So you need some market skills to some some level.
CCP decided two month ago to take out the tech 2 components from the agents. From my informations you needed a Player Operated Station to get some. Maybe I am totally wrong on where to get them and really I dont care at all.
But the developpers said to set up POS as a big recommendantion. So more skills or you rely on your buddys. Hehehehehe. My "pal" stole all my components for tech 2 construction components when they announced it was going out of agents rewards. Three badgers worth of tech 2 components. Trust a buddy after that? This is a big limit to cooperation between players: trust. So you might be the right peeps or not. Who knows...
After that if you rely on peeps, when are they online, at what time and what are they doing or waht can they do for you.
Pfffff you like busting your head for a game. I dont. I play to have fun and like I said at the end "if was working has hard in life as I was working in eve I would be a millionnaire in no time."
First of all, if your character is going to be a researcher you do not need perception or willpower. Charisma, you can get if you want but it's not a must since it won't affect the amount of research points you receive nearly as much as having decent levels of research.
Getting Intelligence/Memory to advanced 4 and learning to 5 will take you roughly ... 3-4 weeks tops. After that, you will be able to train engineering/electronics/mechanics and science to level 5 in under a month. Wow, not even 2 months into the game and you can start research to get your hands on BPO's that are literaly worth billions.
As for production efficientcy and mining, you don't have to get them. By saying that you are just proving my argument even further. I want to mine, I want to produce, I ... I ... I friggin' I. There are people who specialize in mining and manufacturing. Ever think of simply setting up a deal with them to get your supplies, dosen't look like it. At worse, if you don't trust anyone in the game to help you, you can simply train industry/production efficentcy to levels 3 and 4 respectively. Omg, more skills based on memory/intelligence which you already have tons of. Getting Industry to 3 and PE to 4 will take an intel/mem based character about ... 1 1/2 days.
As for learning all the research skills, that is rediculous, again, you need to specialize. It is pointless to train them all since you can only do 1 type of research at a time anyways.
As for needing T2 components, that is only for T2 ships. And wait a minute, "You" need a POS ... blah blah blah ... you keep repetiting the same damned argument over and over. EVE is the glorification of what MMO's are suposed to be. YOU represent a very very small part of the game. If you do want to represent something big, you have to specialize in something. There are people who have POS's who sell the components to manufacturers who then make T2 components who sell them to T2 ship builders. It is a chain and if you want to be more than a link, I suggest you go play something else.
1 person out of 30,000 does not represent much unless they offer something that none of the others can offer. You are trying to make your characters compete against 29,999 other people in all aspects of the game, you seriously thought that it would work out ? Give me a break.
Dakilla[666] ~ The Realm ~ Level 1000 enchanter (retired) Maranthoric ~ La 4ieme Prophetie ~ Level 160 (5x) HE/Feu (de retour) Leonthoric[DDC] ~ EVE online ~ <Fire The "Laser"> (retired)
Originally posted by dakilla666 As for needing T2 components, that is only for T2 ships. And wait a minute, "You" need a POS ... blah blah blah ... you keep repetiting the same damned argument over and over. EVE is the glorification of what MMO's are suposed to be. YOU represent a very very small part of the game. If you do want to represent something big, you have to specialize in something. There are people who have POS's who sell the components to manufacturers who then make T2 components who sell them to T2 ship builders. It is a chain and if you want to be more than a link, I suggest you go play something else.
So true.
Some people will never understand that they can't do it all. Please tell me another game where you can do absolutely everything with one character? WoW, EQ2? CoH? No, you can't do it all. You have to group with people to level and finish quests, you need people to do tradeskills and craft things. You need people from all classes to make it work. Why do you think you should be able to do it all in EVE? Just because it's a skill based game doesn't mean you don't have to specialize. Don't blame the game because it doesn't fit your solo MMO style. If everyone could do everything and never needed to rely on another person, why play it online with other people?
I did'nt attacked anybody here. I am not the only one who thinks eve has took a bad turn. I am not the only on who say it out loud. I started 3 corps in eve and was very implicated in group activeties.
In one of the corps I started they guys afters 3 weeks where saying 2 things:
We are bored of mining.
We dont have enoth skills to do pvp.
We are are bored of doing the same missions over and over but we cant go at an other level we are not skilled enoth.
What can you say to these peeps? Well maybe in 3 or 4 month you might be doing something else.
It's not because you love a game you cant be objective about it. I stick to my guns here. Eve is a very boring game.
Originally posted by gizmoflash I did'nt attacked anybody here. I am not the only one who thinks eve has took a bad turn. I am not the only on who say it out loud. I started 3 corps in eve and was very implicated in group activeties. In one of the corps I started they guys afters 3 weeks where saying 2 things: We are bored of mining. We dont have enoth skills to do pvp. We are are bored of doing the same missions over and over but we cant go at an other level we are not skilled enoth. What can you say to these peeps? Well maybe in 3 or 4 month you might be doing something else. It's not because you love a game you cant be objective about it. I stick to my guns here. Eve is a very boring game. Have a nice game both of ya.
I'm not attacking you, I'm presenting the other side of your argument.
Starting a corp, with three or four of you noobie friends doesn't count. That's nothing more then getting yourself a spiffy corp banner and another chat channel - thats all. I am assuming you were all noobs, or at least the people you recruited otherwise you wouldn't be saying "We don't have enough skills for PVP".
Why not join a prefounded corp, one with a reputation and a fair amount of members from all sides of EVE, instead of trying to go at it by yourself or with just your closest of friends? I highly suggest not trying to do that on your own, starting a corp is no cakewalk, and there are already to many three people corps that spam their invitations and cargo can addvertisements everywhere.
With a group of corp mates, PVP is fun no matter your skill points. You could have 800k, like I did, and be a tackler. Tons of fun, get some experience and usually your corp helps out on your ship losses, especially with frigs.
Also, saying EVE is a boring game is just stating your opinion. I know you may think it's fact but it's not. I find EVE can be very exciting. Especially when I was fresh and got my first crack at PVP with my corp - very exciting.
If the game is not for you, fine. But don't argue that your opinion on the game is fact, because it's not.
Who the heck you think you are talking to? I started playing eve online on june 2004. Was aware of the dev blobs and when we (cuz we a couple in this) we knew exactly what to do.
Stop guessin. Take fact before you throw stuff around. Give me facts not jugements on what I did. We did quite honstly run that corp and did so twice before. It's painfull to not be able to do didle squat about something you cant. The way the system skills works make it difficult to get peeps into the game. As of membership, most corps i came across or talking to other players where filled with dead accounts. Corp in eve do this to inflate their numbers to recruit active players. As of new accounts, when I came in 14 day trials where not enable all the time they even stopped for a while now it's ongoing.
I've was 0.0 in cursed region at 8 pm eastern we where alone two or 3 peeps. I mean I can understand you wish as I did eve would be running smoothly new players staying and having fun doing group activeties but it's not the case.
Well, EVE online has been around for quite awhile as for MMORPG's go. Generally, if they make it past their first year with continuous numbers, it is a success. EVE on the other hand is gaining new people, sure nothing compared to WoW but, that's an entirely different case. You started in June 2004, ok good for you. The corporation in which I claim membership has been around for about 2 years now. If you look at the majority of highly populated, well reputed corps', they have all been around for over a year.
If you start up your own corp, yeah 3-4 guys to spread out the tasks involved in the beginning is fine, but if you hope to do anything you need a few dozen members and you need to actualy do stuff. You posted that everyone thought mining and manufacturing is boring and you didn't have enough skills for pvp. Well, the only way to get skill in pvp is by actualy fighting. At first, you will get your butt handed to you, everyone does, no exceptions. However, the more you do it (start with low cost ships to insure you can keep doing so), the better you become. As I stated previously, you do not need alot of skill points on a character to make him useful, you just need to specialize. Even with 3 or 4 guys, you could of gone into 0.0 systems and taken out a few pirates, all you would need to do is spread out roles to get the job done.
We are not trying to down you personnaly, if you look carefuly everything in the last posts are backed with facts/personnal experiences. But you have to understand, your just intentionaly trying to down a game without giving valid reasons. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion and it is very clear but it just sounds to me like you and your corp mates never actualy, tried to do anything. It's fine and dandy to think to yourself "hey, if I go to 0.0 and try to fight, I'm gonna get creamed, lets just keep running missions all day". But, don't go downing the pvp aspect of the game simply because you never attempted to get into it. I know of small corps that were crushed and I mean absolutely crushed in combat but, everyday, they got into new ships, got new modules and came back fighting and you know what ? After a few weeks, they started posting a few kill mails here and there and by the time the fighting was over, they could give us a real run for our money on even odds.
Sure, they bitched and whined and complained but, they actualy stood up and said were gonna defend ourselves, we are going to try and lay claim to this region and in the end they came out of it with some valauble combat experience. Skill points mean nothing, I have seen people with 10M+ SP characters get ganked in their 200M battleships by squads of frigates simply because they paniced when they see "warp drive scrambled" and couldn't seem to hit their targets.
As for people leaving dead accounts in for more numbers, well, it's quite the opposite in many cases. Since corps' are limited in size, most ceo's try and eliminate all overflow to make sure there is still room for expansion. Another reason dead accounts often stay on is because it is simply annoying to get rid of them lol. To remove a person from the corp, a director has to first of all, realize that there person is inactive (you don't wanna sack someone who is simply on vacation). After that, they have to go and remove that character's roles one by one for everything single role they might have. This means, for every hanger in every station, for every lab and manufacturing slot held in conquerable stations, for access to POS, the director has to through them all (my corp has over 10 offices, 3 conquerable stations and often is running 1-3 POS's at a time) and remove them one check by one check. We also have 5 hangers per office, each hanger right has "query and access" role attributed to them. So, that's like 13x5x2 or 130 roles to go through, IF that person didn't have access to the POS's, gotta remove them ALL before you can remove that person from the corp.
This step is so brutally annoying that most directors give up after 10 minutes and simply leave the inactive in the corp lol.
P.S. They are Dev "Blogs" not Blobs, if your gonna re-state something, make sure you had it right in the first place please. And the "blogs" yes, say it with me now b-l-o-g ... lol ... they simply state some of the changes that are taking place in the game. They do not state what is already in it (unless they are changing that specific thing) nor do they tell you what to do / how to use whatever it is that they are incorporating into the game, so reading about it, only goes so far.
Dakilla[666] ~ The Realm ~ Level 1000 enchanter (retired) Maranthoric ~ La 4ieme Prophetie ~ Level 160 (5x) HE/Feu (de retour) Leonthoric[DDC] ~ EVE online ~ <Fire The "Laser"> (retired)
Originally posted by dakilla666 But you have to understand, your just intentionaly trying to down a game without giving valid reasons.
Come on. I played eve for a whole year. I use to love the game dans played hard core and was into it max. I did quite onestly state what was wrong with the game and if stayed in course with the tread it's because the guy that started it stated something I totally agree on. The skilling system in eve has created a divised group of players. On one side you have the newbs and on the other the skilled over 10 mil sp players. Not wanting to admit this is not wanting to see a very hard fact and nothing can be done to this. The dev are satisfied with the skilling system has it is.
Good things about eve:
Graphics are fantastic.
Ships and ships types are great.
Modules, fitting and equipement are awsome.
Mods.
Less good things about eve:
Skilling system.
Missions.
Dev section and information.
Bugs, lag and stability of the server.
Macros and bots.
So either you live with those or you dont. I dont anymore.
As of eve having more clients well I looked at the curb of attendance on the graphics showned on eve-i.com and I see the exact opposite. Last saturday attendance dropped to raught 8 k around 8 pm eastern time when it's a saturday night spring brake. Donno maybe I cant read a graph but did some statistics while in university and maybe I baught the exam and bottom end I cant read a graph properly.
I dont understand the guy complaining against EVE.
EVE didnt lie to you.
EVE didnt lead you to believe you would be happy doing some activity while in fact they would do everything to make you do some other stuff.
EVE is really not a game for me, but they never try, in any form, to convince me otherwise. Just hug EVE and walk away if you dont like, or embrace them if you like it.
If you want games to blasts, SoE, Blizzard, Sigil, even NCsoft, deserve your hatred a lot more then this company.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
What's the practical difference between a 20 mil character and a sensibly specialised 6 mil character? The 20 mil character will be able to fly more advanced ships, have a few extra 5 or 10% bonuses here and there and will be able to use more tech 2 gear. That's it. They're not 3 1/3 times better than the 6 million sp character because of the exponential training times and modest bonuses. Also even a noob fresh out of the cloning vat can be very useful in fleet battles tackling and so forth.
Skill point envy is all in the player's head. After you have a good few million points behind you it makes small practical difference and would never decide the battle unless you had a perfectly matched 1vs1 (absolutely unheard of in real war situations).
Listen, I dont hate eve. I just stated the games sucks as it is. For numerous reasons I dont think I should stick to it. As of other MMORGS, well if they have their failures also well it indicates players want more content and better quality storylines. Instead of bending my knees in front if CCP I underlined majors bugs of the game. I payed to play eve, so has we all do.
Good thing about eve it most certainly setted some standards of quality in the industry. As of content well maybe another MMORG will pick up. Some folks are disapointed of WOW, I am about eve and some about others.
A thing I noticed is that the best developpers go in 1st shooters and such game cuz the market is there actually. Wont mean it will not change in the future. Maybe MMORGS will start to attrack better developpers. And eve is not the last. Maybe eve will overcome it's majors defenciencies who knows. I am not digging a six foot deep hole and ready to burry eve. One thing is good about open criticism: IT BRINGS CHANGES. If you glorify something it becomes and idol. Eve is not one. If it become one it will burry itself. Openly talking about stuff THAT DONT WORK in a game is good. Bring stuff to change.
A thing really strange about eve everywhere from the post in the website to the dev blobs in the website is that if you talk about what goes wrong in eve it's: SHUT UP EVE IS GREAT PERIOD IF YOU DONT LIKE IT THAT IS BECAUSE YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THE BASIC EVE FACT. Then you have 200 eve specialist that dictates you what to think.
lol
I do understand eve's dynamic and more then most peeps in the game dont worry. I dont pretend to have the whole truth but some things bugs me alot. I spent numerous hours in eve trying to get what I was doing wrong to end up discovering it's the game itself that as some really twisted sides. I passed them in review. Openly saying what is wrong is good. That is what we are doing here and maybe this will get some peeps to go out and say to the dev well some things in eve really need to be corrected. I hope so.
Would be a good thing for alot of peeps in the game. Me my game is over with eve but did shared my comments on the game and wont stop either.
You want more content and storyline : The storyline is updated twice a week with player based events, EVE is the only MMO on the market to do so. Content, there are new patches every 5-6 weeks that add ALOT of new things.
You keep talking about major problems and each time your only stating that there is a gap between newbies and high SP characters which, I think about 4 people have tried to tell you dosen't affect much but I guess your not big on actualy reading what other people have to say.
As for telling you to shut up, no one said that, we just said try to put "facts" into your arguments, wait a minute that's what you said you did, but you don't. "I just stated that EVE sucks as is." Wait a minute, that's a personnal sattement with 0 fact. Your stating your personnal opinion and downing the game because you don't like the way the skill system works and seem to be bored with missions. That's fine, you find the missions repetitive, dosen't mean the game sucks. Maybe if you spend more time gaving some facts instead of simply saying that the game failed to do whatever it is you think it failed to do, we wouldn't blast you for downing the game.
There is a difference between negative criticism and simply bashing something. To criticize, you have to form consent, fact based arguments and deductions, something you failed altogether to do. So either, restate your arguments by basing them somewhat on fact or stop complaining, this site was meant to come talk and have conversations about various MMO's, not whine about your bad experiences with them.
P.S.: Comments on bugs and macro users is total BS. I've been playing for 8 months myself and have encountered bugs, I'd say 4-5 times now. Everytime, the issue was ressolved less than an hour after the problem occured. As for macro miners, I use to mine for months and months and encountered one guy who looked like he was macro'ing. I reported him, and 2-3 days later, he disapeared. If you complain about them, nothing will come from it, inform the people who can make the changes happen and boom, problem solved, another abuser of the system gets his account banned.
Dakilla[666] ~ The Realm ~ Level 1000 enchanter (retired) Maranthoric ~ La 4ieme Prophetie ~ Level 160 (5x) HE/Feu (de retour) Leonthoric[DDC] ~ EVE online ~ <Fire The "Laser"> (retired)
Content patches are hardly every 5-6 weeks, more like 5-6 months. The slow rate of development is a negative for eve, not a positive. The turmoil and subsequent hotfix patches surrounding a big patch really are unbelievable for a game thats been around for ages. When a content patch does come around, all it is* are the same old ships with minor cosmetic differences and a load of stats that require balancing.
Eve is at best OK at the moment, it has a lot of good points and a few negatives. I still recommend it to people as it is definately worth experiencing. Unfortunately for me it is more of an addiction than a fun game to play. I've quit it 3 times already...
*sometimes they do add new ship designs, but it's very rare. And all new content does seem to focus on ships.
---sig---
PvE in general is pretty lame, if you think long and hard about it. You are spending your time beating a severely gimped AI that would lose to a well trained monkey. Best not to think too long and hard why you are wasting time playing games in general actually...
How can anyone say the skill system in Eve is one of its bad points? It's fantastic. At last, I don't need to 'grind' doing boring things like fight NPC to get my skills.
There has been 8 storyline news casts in the last week. What more are you looking for? I even took part in one of the events which affected the storyline.
Here is the last full content patch. Doesn't look only like adding ships to me. Every patch since has added some form of content but not as much.
Starbase Structures Starbases are anchored at moons and can be deployed in systems with up to 0.3 security rating. Tech Level 2 Construction Component blueprints require moon materials for production. These materials are harvested from moons and made by Reactors and Reactions. Control Towers of Starbase consume various commodities and Ice products gathered from Ice mining. Moon survey scanning is done by launching a moon survey probe in the direction of the moon and waiting for the results, which shows up in a separate moon survey result window. Starbase structures will be sold on the market (No blueprints, ORE are monopolistic bastards). Tech Level 2 Components Blueprints, Reaction Blueprints and XL ammo blueprints are also available on the market.
System Sovereignty Starbases count towards Alliance sovereignty of a system. To gain sovereignty of a system, an Alliance must own the majority of Starbases in a system. Sovereignty is displayed in the current location information and on the star map.
Deadspace Complexes Major pirate factions now have their first Deadspace Complexes, trying to expand their grip on deep space. Complexes usually have ship limitations and some rooms require keys to get into which are usually gathered from Deadspace pocket overseers. Defenders of Complexes generally have less loot drops but overseers have adequate rewards. These are usually the best ways to get new faction technology.
New Ships Blueprints for Battlecruisers, Destroyers and Mining Barges are available on the market. NPC corporations will sell the Barges and Destroyers but Battlecruisers will be fully player manufactured. Faction ship can acquired through special offers your agent gives you for your loyalty to him and will be added to high level Complexes when they become available.
Mining Improvements Ice fields and new qualities of ores can be seen all over the universe. Mining crystals are available for use in the Modulated Deep Core Miner II's and Modulated Strip Miner II's. These crystals and advanced Mining Lasers will come through Research Agents. Ice Harvester I and Strip Miner I's are available on the market in addition to the Mining Barges.
System Scanning System Scanning Modules (Tech Level I) are available through the market. Tech Level 2 variants and at least one specialized ship will be added later (Recon Frigate most likely). System scanning requires 3 probes to be launched for successful triangulation. Lesser range probes are then used to narrow down the location and increase accuracy. Probes can be destroyed, this is one of the counter-measures to system scanning.
New Environments Ice fields, new nebula and planetary effects are in. Fly around and you should see them in most constellation.
Rogue Drones First rogue drone Complexes are available in Empire. Their influence will expand and they will generate far more difficult Complexes.
New Ship UI and User Interface Improvements Ship UI and user interface has gotten a general improvement in most areas. Some of the UI has moved to the new UI framework, which is much lighter. This has resulted in some of the framerate increase. All items in space now had a Quick Action menu which can be accessed by holding down the left mouse button on an item.
Contraband (Illegal Items) NPC Customs Officers are scanning players in Empire space. Agents in deep space offer illegal items based on loyalty and agents in Empire ask for illegal items through special offers. Customs police may be found at stargates in empire space. They will scan a random selection of the passersby and if they discover contraband, depending on what the contraband is, they will react in a range of ways. Discovery of any contraband results in a fine and a faction standing penalty - where the amount of each is determined by how much is found, the more items and wider variety of types, the higher the fine. Then, each illegal type has a confiscation security level and attack security level, where if the solar system you are found with it in has equal to or higher than that security level, they will engage you in the relevant action. If just confiscate applies, the Customs officers will confiscate it. If attack applies, they will attack you.
Agent UI Improvements and Level 4 missions. The Agent UI has had a number of improvements. Level 4 missions have started to use the pirates from Complexes. Level 4 kill missions will eventually feature Complexes as locations. The agent mission journal also offers more help with locations and describing mission goals.
Agent Offers (AKA Black Market Services) Agents now offer their loyal agent runners special offers with faction loot, faction ships, demand and supply for illegal items and manufacturing missions where they offer to manufacture various named items for ingredients and perhaps some less than lawful items.
Tactical View and Fleet Command Tactical view now shows range intersection, optimal and falloff ranges when hovering the mouse over turrets. Fleet command is limited to "Set Target" for gangs which can then be seen in the "Tag" column in the overview. This allows for better coordination in targeting both for fleet battles as well as smaller gangs.
Corporation Improvements Corporations Improvements with new specific hangar access roles, in addition to base assignment. Title assignment provide group roles and blueprint lockdown. Both Directors and CEO's can now propose votes.
New Alliances Alliances can now be formally created. Remember to send your Alliance logo to the SCC if you want it in-game ([email protected]). These will be added to the Alliance database via the monthly patches.
New War Declaration The biggest change to normal corporation warfare is a war declaration now costs ISK. The amount of this charge is dependant upon how many existing wars the aggressor is currently fighting/ There is also a weekly maintenance fee and for sustaining each war. Corporations within an alliance can't declare war on, or have war declared on them by, other corporations or alliances. War must be declared on or by the parent alliance.
Market Improvements Market is now accessible from space, allowing remote selling. Commodity market now works on endless supplies with volatile price fluctuations.
Helper Applications Notepad and Calculator are available through the Neocom.
In-game Browser The In-game browser now offers HTML 3.2 and CSS support
Core Optimizations Press Ctrl-F to get a framerate counter. A lot of improvements have been done to address fleet battles, client framerate, bandwidth utilization and server performance. Improvements will continue to be made in the future.
Further information on EXODUS features are available here.
Other Changes, Fixes and Modifications
The tutorial has been upgraded and given a facelift to address EXODUS features. A set of new training Complexes have been added. Spawn rates for training grounds have been increased.
New racial posters are present in the character creation process.
The "Stargate jump in progress" issue, where a message prevents the player from jumping (known as the jump bug) has been resolved. In addition, a notify message is now being sent to players affected by a special set of circumstances. This message features a countdown timer.
Repackaging can now be done remotely via Assets.
You now only use one Micro WarpDrive at a time. MWDs cannot be used within Deadspace Complexes.
Lights are now prioritized. Hardware has a limit on the number of active lights. A new light manager now prioritizes lights, and replaces active lights with higher priority lights as needed.
All player market orders were ported to EXODUS regardless of player skill, however market order duration on these orders has been set to 2 weeks.
Changing corporation via voting or other manners when the pilot is in space causes the corporation of the pilot to be visibly updated.
Changes to the old system scanner have been made. The name search location has moved to the new Overview, where customizable templates are available. Direction and range have been combined and added alongside the probe scanning interface.
Market groups have been overhauled and reorganized.
Changes to missile visual behavior have been made and should now explode closer to target.
Known issue: Items taken from a log container are not logged.
Why are you reading this far?
Bugfix: HQ change restriction. You can only change the HQ of a corporation once per hour, unless all the members of the corporation log out.
New explosions for most items in space have been added.
Formerly, missiles would prevent ships from warping by preventing aligning. This was caused by bounce and this has been resolved.
Kill mission are being integrated into the Deadspace Complex system. All kill missions will eventually involve Deadspace Complexes.
Fixed problems with switching from windowed to full screen.
You can now control all your drones by right clicking on the folders in the new drone interface.
Corporation "Transfer" Funds. It is now possible to move ISK from the corp. account directly to a player account or player corp. account. There is a button in the wallet marked "Transfer". After that is clicked, you can select the character or corporation and then enter the amount to transfer.
You can now set default "orbit" and "keep at range" distances.
Alliances have been added to the map palette list, filtering the sovereignty map by Alliance can now be done.
Pathfinding is now more lenient in finding safe and unsafe routes.
Activating a module no longer breaks your ship's cloak and will give an error message. A pilot will have to move to break the cloak. Gang regroup will de-cloak everyone in a gang at once after holding cloak after passing through a gate (a better alternative to everyone activating a module on cue).
Fix for temporary capacitor charge visual errors in the client. You can see that these are happening when you do something that uses capacitor and suddenly your capacitor charge is completely changed - perhaps nearly empty where it was full before. This is because the client had a cached charge value which was wrong (the server is always right) and when the ship used capacitor, it changed the server-side value and resulted in the client being told the new correct value.
If you click on the info window you should get the menu entries that you would get for the item if it were in a list view. This is a quick fix and will be properly optimized in the future.
You can now configure the CSPA fee on your inbox, through the mailbox settings, located by right clicking on the Inbox tab. Likewise, CSPA fees can be configured on all other mailboxes.
Fake loot containers with fake items that change into real items have been added. This has been done to decrease server load. All cargo containers and contents that are created by NPC's are generated as fake items. When the fake items are moved/duplicated/merged into real locations (like a real cargo container, cargo of a ship etc.) real items are created to replace the fake items and the fake items destroyed. Real items cannot be moved back to fake containers. This means that all loot containers and items inside them will be lost after downtime, even though the NPC was killed 1 minute before downtime. Jettisoned cargo containers are still real items.
All cargo containers of the simple type "Cargo Container" will explode after 2 hours (maximum of 2 hours and 23 minutes).
Added region and constellation system channels. You can join Region channel through the Channels list, but Constellation is always shown. Both channels only show recent speakers and cannot be utilized as a tactical tool. This is for mingling only.
Originally posted by dakilla666 There is a difference between negative criticism and simply bashing something. To criticize, you have to form consent, fact based arguments and deductions, something you failed altogether to do.
The thread discussion is on skills and the system of skilling as it is in eve right now.
Fact: the developpers like the way it is right now.
Fact: the skill system the way it is creates two kind of players that can hardly cooperate.
Fact: some people like the skill system and some dont.
Fact: the skills take ages to bring up (this statement come Oveur a developper himself and not me).
Fact: there are "loads" of new skills added every month to every months. (if I said other wise I was out there). As of the term "load" this come from TOMB another developper and not me and this refers to the next patch COSMOS and can be applyed to the last patch and EXODUS patch.
Fact: The list of skills required to play eve is getting longer.
Fact: New players are faced with a very long list of skills to bring up.
Fact: If you start a character today in eve you will need an extensive period of preparation before enjoying the game.
Fact: If today you start a character you will have limited interation with the possibilities of the game.
Fact: New players quit before having a playable character.
Telling me I did'nt gave facts is tendancious and indicates something I have noticed from the discussions in the eve forums and is been carried here too by very implicated players in eve.
Eve online is an addictive game. When it come to talking about the good sides as of the bad sides of the game becomes an intricate complex discussion on highly technical data accessible to very skilled players. It tend to leave the rational to a very emotive level of dicussion.
I will state this:
Eve is an online game no more no less.
Eve is a product and it is on the market as other MMORG.
Eve as a product that can be openly talked about.
Fact: TOMB said about last discussion on the missile modifications "Be aware of what you post here (referring to the missile modifications forum in eve online website), this forum is moderated very cruel people".
This is a clear indication that some players in the game are way over their head with eve online.
Fact: you need to have some guts now to talk about eve online. Eve website forums are filled now with peeps being shut off and often you will be argued that you dont know what you are talking bout etc. I am really not surprised of what I hear here because this is going on in the eve online website. Most players dont post anything because they will be gagged or shut off by very implicated players that are way over their head into eve online.
I will not copy and paste massive data here. Maybe a link or a thread is enoth. If people want to get them they will or not.
Adding massive data to shut off somedy is in my eye censorship.
I will continue to have a very constructive approach to eve and the problems there is in the game.
I am not a "spcecialist" of eve online and neither needs to be to play a MMORG.
Something that could help with the difference between old and new players, would be doing the old players slower getting skill points. Like if you would be getting older in game. So it would make a little smaller the difference between both groups.
Originally posted by Compi Something that could help with the difference between old and new players, would be doing the old players slower getting skill points. Like if you would be getting older in game. So it would make a little smaller the difference between both groups.
Um, that already happens. Getting from lv4 to lv5 can take 20 days for only a 2% increase.
Originally posted by Compi Something that could help with the difference between old and new players, would be doing the old players slower getting skill points. Like if you would be getting older in game. So it would make a little smaller the difference between both groups.
That's exactly what the skill system does! Level 3 takes no time at all to get, level 5 and more advanced skills take ages. Therefore young players can quickly become "almost as good" and old players take a LONG time to squeeze out those extra 5%'s or train for advanced stuff like Tech2 guns.
Comments
Uhh ... not so sure.
I'm not complaining about the skill system, I like it, but I do have to say that there is a substantial difference in training time that is measuirable even over the cost of a few months if you have 2 or 3 advanced learning skills. Learning V is a waste of time, but really the other ones that increase attributes are not a waste of time at all. The more the merrier. Once you start popping your attributes to 18-20 or higher the shaving in time to train skills to level 5 is -very- noticeable. I mean one of my friends in the game has trained 3 advanced learning skills and has implants and -- we calculated it -- he can train a race's frigate from 0 to V in 11 days total, as compared with someone with average learning skills (III and IV) who would take 13 days to train from IV to V alone. Pretty *huge* difference. Over the course of a year it will save you 100 days at least of training. Again, not Learning, but the key attribute skills, perception, willpower, memory, analytical mind ... boy oh boy when they are high (and I mean 18-20 and over) does it make a big difference in training.
Now I agree that you don't need to do this if you aren't concerned about being a speedy trainer down the road, and I agree that in the short term it is boring as heck. So what I recommend is that people switch off between training learning skills and other skills for a while so that they can stem boredom. Still, it's wise to keep track of what your friends are doing, because if your friends are training all the learning and a few advanced learning up and getting implants, you eventually will really, really fall behind them in terms of skillpoints and how long it takes to obtain more of them, if that matters to you. If it doesn't, that's great ... I think the game is designed to be fun without being worried about being the fastest skill trainer in EVE.
I have to agree with you, as i've been thinking and reading through the boards and also did a little quick math. If you trained up the advanced skills to 3, didn't train charisma at all and the actual "learning" skill it would probably start to pay off around 2 months, maybe more or less but not by much. So it's not as bad as everyone seems to make it out.
Also, like has been stated multiple times, it is indeed a good idea to break it up and train all the learners inbetween other things. It may not be the most wise choice mathematically but in reality it's a hell of a lot less boring. So invest in those learners, and the advanced ones when you can get them, but don't rush into it and take your time.
Also, I didn't really mean that the advanced skills were a waste of time altogether. What i mean, and i should have worded it a bit better, was that it's a waste of time to grind out 7 days on a learning skill when you could have trained up... say... cruiser to 3 and got into a new ship. Not that training the advanced skills was indeed a waste of time.
Inplants and all learning skills should have never been introduced in eve...that would have solved a lot of problems long time ago but for sure it would have solved the wrong direction exodus took.
For me the EVE skill system is quite well developed and i love the fact that a skill trains even when i'm ofline... some people might complain about the 20 days to train a skill... they should try Lineage 2 (if its still alive)... played that game for 6 months and it had the WORST and HARDEST lvl grined ever experienced (beside the worst farming amd bot comunity online)... 20 days to lvl a skill while i'm online/offline and haveing fun in between... or killing the same damn mob for a week or two to get just one lvl... your choice, i already made mine
cheers m8
Even if that guy is not there, I will answer this anyway. I've just quited eve for that reason and reprocessed a 6 mil skill point character becaused I was totatlly fed up with numerous issues in eve-online and namely the skilling process. I am on the market for another MMORG and to never come back to eve.
The main problem and from what I read in the Dev blobs this is desired by CCP. This is the situation now in eve: new player will never be able to catch up with accounts running since the beta mod. So you have a virtual wall between 20 mil sp players and players that came last year as I did and had 6 mil sp and would not ever be able to follow these guy as I was unskilled period and without any remedy even with the advanced learnings skills and implants.
With the exchange of account system, those players are now gone and replaced by switched players. I mean seriously these guy that are doing pvp have never remotly thaught of skilling a character or mined 5 min in eve. They baught a ready skilled character and picked where another left.
So yes I totally agree with this guy. Playing eve when you are undeskilled is like aving access to everything and no be able to jack cuz you havent got the skills. As patch are going, these are longer and longer.
So for me anything is good exept boring missions in eve and mining I cant remotly stand cuz it come to that.
Consider this as a flame thrower I just dont give damm anymore.
With a 6M SP character, you can specialize in just about anything in EVE atm. The problem is, your all so narrow minded and keep the must "have everything" and "do everything" mentality you seem to adopt from games with open skill training. You have to realize that your starting stats are going to influence everything you do, alot. I have friends that haven't been playing long but have Production Efficientcy 5, Refinery Efficientcy 5 characters in large barges. They also have very skilled fighting characters and hey, here's the secret, all on the same account. Instead of getting every skill with a character who trains them slowly, they make specific characters for specific jobs.
If you wanna mine/manufacture, start a character with large amounts of intelligence/memory and do not learn unnecessary skills. Problem is again, everyone wants to have a bit of everything, I did the same thing with my original character, no, he'll never "catch up" then again, there isn't much to catch up to. I've been playing for about 7 months now and am currently working on get HAC's and Large Energy Specializations, once I get that, there won't be much in terms of weaponry that I cannot use. Sure, I can only fly 1 race of ships but, I like my ships and will not waste weeks and weeks of training to train a new race.
You gotta make decisions about how you wanna train, gizmo, you don't seem to have a clue about what direction you were going in the game. As for pvp'ers being simply people who bought accounts, ummmm ... no. My corp has about I'd say, a dozen guys with 20M+ SP's and all of them pvp with their mains, I only know of 1 guy who sold off his account. Most of the time on top of it, the people who buy the accounts are totaly newbies and end up getting wtfbbqpawned with their expensive setups/ships and great skills because they just aren't good at playing the game lol.
As for patches making it worse for new players, it is quite the opposite. The introduction of new T2 bpo's and new specializations actualy helps the new players who know what they wanna do in the game. Since the research process is a lottery, even low skilled players (who actualy took the time to train research) have the chance of getting their hands on a fancy bpo. The last patch actualy freed up ALOT of research labs and hey wait a minute, it dosen't cost 2M/day to do research anymore (yeah, used to cost alot more than it does now), this made it easier for starting up manufacturing corps to research their bpo's to be competitive on the market.
Finaly, your post just kind of sounds like, you weren't really doing anything at all in EVE but "try to catch up" to people. This is not a game to try and solo-grind your way into stardome, you gotta plan and work through the kinks. Joining a good corporation also helps since not only does it give you buddies to do stuff with (hell even mining is fun if you got alot of friends helping you out) but you also have people there to help you when your not 100% sure about what to do.
Dakilla[666] ~ The Realm ~ Level 1000 enchanter (retired)
Maranthoric ~ La 4ieme Prophetie ~ Level 160 (5x) HE/Feu (de retour)
Leonthoric[DDC] ~ EVE online ~ <Fire The "Laser"> (retired)
I had 2 accounts, one was mining, producing and the other was strictly science.
Science in eve is a long process. You have to skill the unavoidable learning skills. And you really need all of them because if you dont train social skills well you rewards arent that great. Then you have to train to level 5: mechanic, electronic, engenering and science. Then, all the other list of skills of science themselves. That is 5 month of skilling before starting any research projets. Also to move your character around you need some navigation, spaceship command and since all the agent lvl 1 for science where in low sector and I got podded everytime I showed my face there, so I train the calderi cruisers and the missiles. Missiles will be nerfed end of june... More skilling. And to have acces to those agent you need the standing to talk to that agent, so security missions. That is why I trained the calderis because it was saving me some time insteat of skilling the gunneries skills. More and more skilling. The bluprints are seldom handed and with zealous misionning you could add enoth loyalty points to qualify for the lottery for a blue print tech 2. A lottery that is some reward for grind missionning.
Ok, let say you do make it to have one of those tech 2 bluprint or bluprint copy. What do you do with it.
Might consider producing something with it. Do you have production skills? I did my other account had those. But let say you dont have production skills or a second acount. So you need those too. Here goes the specialisations arguments.
So you need some mining skills for the minerals, production skill, industry for skilling those, production effecency to some level, research if you have a BPO, and the components for producing some product and selling it on the market. So you need some market skills to some some level.
CCP decided two month ago to take out the tech 2 components from the agents. From my informations you needed a Player Operated Station to get some. Maybe I am totally wrong on where to get them and really I dont care at all.
But the developpers said to set up POS as a big recommendantion. So more skills or you rely on your buddys. Hehehehehe. My "pal" stole all my components for tech 2 construction components when they announced it was going out of agents rewards. Three badgers worth of tech 2 components. Trust a buddy after that? This is a big limit to cooperation between players: trust. So you might be the right peeps or not. Who knows...
After that if you rely on peeps, when are they online, at what time and what are they doing or waht can they do for you.
Pfffff you like busting your head for a game. I dont. I play to have fun and like I said at the end "if was working has hard in life as I was working in eve I would be a millionnaire in no time."
Have a nice game man.
First of all, if your character is going to be a researcher you do not need perception or willpower. Charisma, you can get if you want but it's not a must since it won't affect the amount of research points you receive nearly as much as having decent levels of research.
Getting Intelligence/Memory to advanced 4 and learning to 5 will take you roughly ... 3-4 weeks tops. After that, you will be able to train engineering/electronics/mechanics and science to level 5 in under a month. Wow, not even 2 months into the game and you can start research to get your hands on BPO's that are literaly worth billions.
As for production efficientcy and mining, you don't have to get them. By saying that you are just proving my argument even further. I want to mine, I want to produce, I ... I ... I friggin' I. There are people who specialize in mining and manufacturing. Ever think of simply setting up a deal with them to get your supplies, dosen't look like it. At worse, if you don't trust anyone in the game to help you, you can simply train industry/production efficentcy to levels 3 and 4 respectively. Omg, more skills based on memory/intelligence which you already have tons of. Getting Industry to 3 and PE to 4 will take an intel/mem based character about ... 1 1/2 days.
As for learning all the research skills, that is rediculous, again, you need to specialize. It is pointless to train them all since you can only do 1 type of research at a time anyways.
As for needing T2 components, that is only for T2 ships. And wait a minute, "You" need a POS ... blah blah blah ... you keep repetiting the same damned argument over and over. EVE is the glorification of what MMO's are suposed to be. YOU represent a very very small part of the game. If you do want to represent something big, you have to specialize in something. There are people who have POS's who sell the components to manufacturers who then make T2 components who sell them to T2 ship builders. It is a chain and if you want to be more than a link, I suggest you go play something else.
1 person out of 30,000 does not represent much unless they offer something that none of the others can offer. You are trying to make your characters compete against 29,999 other people in all aspects of the game, you seriously thought that it would work out ? Give me a break.
Dakilla[666] ~ The Realm ~ Level 1000 enchanter (retired)
Maranthoric ~ La 4ieme Prophetie ~ Level 160 (5x) HE/Feu (de retour)
Leonthoric[DDC] ~ EVE online ~ <Fire The "Laser"> (retired)
So true.
Some people will never understand that they can't do it all. Please tell me another game where you can do absolutely everything with one character? WoW, EQ2? CoH? No, you can't do it all. You have to group with people to level and finish quests, you need people to do tradeskills and craft things. You need people from all classes to make it work. Why do you think you should be able to do it all in EVE? Just because it's a skill based game doesn't mean you don't have to specialize. Don't blame the game because it doesn't fit your solo MMO style. If everyone could do everything and never needed to rely on another person, why play it online with other people?
I did'nt attacked anybody here. I am not the only one who thinks eve has took a bad turn. I am not the only on who say it out loud. I started 3 corps in eve and was very implicated in group activeties.
In one of the corps I started they guys afters 3 weeks where saying 2 things:
We are bored of mining.
We dont have enoth skills to do pvp.
We are are bored of doing the same missions over and over but we cant go at an other level we are not skilled enoth.
What can you say to these peeps? Well maybe in 3 or 4 month you might be doing something else.
It's not because you love a game you cant be objective about it. I stick to my guns here. Eve is a very boring game.
Have a nice game both of ya.
I'm not attacking you, I'm presenting the other side of your argument.
Starting a corp, with three or four of you noobie friends doesn't count. That's nothing more then getting yourself a spiffy corp banner and another chat channel - thats all. I am assuming you were all noobs, or at least the people you recruited otherwise you wouldn't be saying "We don't have enough skills for PVP".
Why not join a prefounded corp, one with a reputation and a fair amount of members from all sides of EVE, instead of trying to go at it by yourself or with just your closest of friends? I highly suggest not trying to do that on your own, starting a corp is no cakewalk, and there are already to many three people corps that spam their invitations and cargo can addvertisements everywhere.
With a group of corp mates, PVP is fun no matter your skill points. You could have 800k, like I did, and be a tackler. Tons of fun, get some experience and usually your corp helps out on your ship losses, especially with frigs.
Also, saying EVE is a boring game is just stating your opinion. I know you may think it's fact but it's not. I find EVE can be very exciting. Especially when I was fresh and got my first crack at PVP with my corp - very exciting.
If the game is not for you, fine. But don't argue that your opinion on the game is fact, because it's not.
Hmm, starting a corp with my newbie firends....
Who the heck you think you are talking to? I started playing eve online on june 2004. Was aware of the dev blobs and when we (cuz we a couple in this) we knew exactly what to do.
Stop guessin. Take fact before you throw stuff around. Give me facts not jugements on what I did. We did quite honstly run that corp and did so twice before. It's painfull to not be able to do didle squat about something you cant. The way the system skills works make it difficult to get peeps into the game. As of membership, most corps i came across or talking to other players where filled with dead accounts. Corp in eve do this to inflate their numbers to recruit active players. As of new accounts, when I came in 14 day trials where not enable all the time they even stopped for a while now it's ongoing.
I've was 0.0 in cursed region at 8 pm eastern we where alone two or 3 peeps. I mean I can understand you wish as I did eve would be running smoothly new players staying and having fun doing group activeties but it's not the case.
MMORG come and go and eve online is no exeption.
Well, EVE online has been around for quite awhile as for MMORPG's go. Generally, if they make it past their first year with continuous numbers, it is a success. EVE on the other hand is gaining new people, sure nothing compared to WoW but, that's an entirely different case. You started in June 2004, ok good for you. The corporation in which I claim membership has been around for about 2 years now. If you look at the majority of highly populated, well reputed corps', they have all been around for over a year.
If you start up your own corp, yeah 3-4 guys to spread out the tasks involved in the beginning is fine, but if you hope to do anything you need a few dozen members and you need to actualy do stuff. You posted that everyone thought mining and manufacturing is boring and you didn't have enough skills for pvp. Well, the only way to get skill in pvp is by actualy fighting. At first, you will get your butt handed to you, everyone does, no exceptions. However, the more you do it (start with low cost ships to insure you can keep doing so), the better you become. As I stated previously, you do not need alot of skill points on a character to make him useful, you just need to specialize. Even with 3 or 4 guys, you could of gone into 0.0 systems and taken out a few pirates, all you would need to do is spread out roles to get the job done.
We are not trying to down you personnaly, if you look carefuly everything in the last posts are backed with facts/personnal experiences. But you have to understand, your just intentionaly trying to down a game without giving valid reasons. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion and it is very clear but it just sounds to me like you and your corp mates never actualy, tried to do anything. It's fine and dandy to think to yourself "hey, if I go to 0.0 and try to fight, I'm gonna get creamed, lets just keep running missions all day". But, don't go downing the pvp aspect of the game simply because you never attempted to get into it. I know of small corps that were crushed and I mean absolutely crushed in combat but, everyday, they got into new ships, got new modules and came back fighting and you know what ? After a few weeks, they started posting a few kill mails here and there and by the time the fighting was over, they could give us a real run for our money on even odds.
Sure, they bitched and whined and complained but, they actualy stood up and said were gonna defend ourselves, we are going to try and lay claim to this region and in the end they came out of it with some valauble combat experience. Skill points mean nothing, I have seen people with 10M+ SP characters get ganked in their 200M battleships by squads of frigates simply because they paniced when they see "warp drive scrambled" and couldn't seem to hit their targets.
As for people leaving dead accounts in for more numbers, well, it's quite the opposite in many cases. Since corps' are limited in size, most ceo's try and eliminate all overflow to make sure there is still room for expansion. Another reason dead accounts often stay on is because it is simply annoying to get rid of them lol. To remove a person from the corp, a director has to first of all, realize that there person is inactive (you don't wanna sack someone who is simply on vacation). After that, they have to go and remove that character's roles one by one for everything single role they might have. This means, for every hanger in every station, for every lab and manufacturing slot held in conquerable stations, for access to POS, the director has to through them all (my corp has over 10 offices, 3 conquerable stations and often is running 1-3 POS's at a time) and remove them one check by one check. We also have 5 hangers per office, each hanger right has "query and access" role attributed to them. So, that's like 13x5x2 or 130 roles to go through, IF that person didn't have access to the POS's, gotta remove them ALL before you can remove that person from the corp.
This step is so brutally annoying that most directors give up after 10 minutes and simply leave the inactive in the corp lol.
P.S. They are Dev "Blogs" not Blobs, if your gonna re-state something, make sure you had it right in the first place please. And the "blogs" yes, say it with me now b-l-o-g ... lol ... they simply state some of the changes that are taking place in the game. They do not state what is already in it (unless they are changing that specific thing) nor do they tell you what to do / how to use whatever it is that they are incorporating into the game, so reading about it, only goes so far.
Dakilla[666] ~ The Realm ~ Level 1000 enchanter (retired)
Maranthoric ~ La 4ieme Prophetie ~ Level 160 (5x) HE/Feu (de retour)
Leonthoric[DDC] ~ EVE online ~ <Fire The "Laser"> (retired)
Come on. I played eve for a whole year. I use to love the game dans played hard core and was into it max. I did quite onestly state what was wrong with the game and if stayed in course with the tread it's because the guy that started it stated something I totally agree on. The skilling system in eve has created a divised group of players. On one side you have the newbs and on the other the skilled over 10 mil sp players. Not wanting to admit this is not wanting to see a very hard fact and nothing can be done to this. The dev are satisfied with the skilling system has it is.
Good things about eve:
Graphics are fantastic.
Ships and ships types are great.
Modules, fitting and equipement are awsome.
Mods.
Less good things about eve:
Skilling system.
Missions.
Dev section and information.
Bugs, lag and stability of the server.
Macros and bots.
So either you live with those or you dont. I dont anymore.
As of eve having more clients well I looked at the curb of attendance on the graphics showned on eve-i.com and I see the exact opposite. Last saturday attendance dropped to raught 8 k around 8 pm eastern time when it's a saturday night spring brake. Donno maybe I cant read a graph but did some statistics while in university and maybe I baught the exam and bottom end I cant read a graph properly.
lol
I dont understand the guy complaining against EVE.
EVE didnt lie to you.
EVE didnt lead you to believe you would be happy doing some activity while in fact they would do everything to make you do some other stuff.
EVE is really not a game for me, but they never try, in any form, to convince me otherwise. Just hug EVE and walk away if you dont like, or embrace them if you like it.
If you want games to blasts, SoE, Blizzard, Sigil, even NCsoft, deserve your hatred a lot more then this company.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
What's the practical difference between a 20 mil character and a sensibly specialised 6 mil character? The 20 mil character will be able to fly more advanced ships, have a few extra 5 or 10% bonuses here and there and will be able to use more tech 2 gear. That's it. They're not 3 1/3 times better than the 6 million sp character because of the exponential training times and modest bonuses. Also even a noob fresh out of the cloning vat can be very useful in fleet battles tackling and so forth.
Skill point envy is all in the player's head. After you have a good few million points behind you it makes small practical difference and would never decide the battle unless you had a perfectly matched 1vs1 (absolutely unheard of in real war situations).
Listen, I dont hate eve. I just stated the games sucks as it is. For numerous reasons I dont think I should stick to it. As of other MMORGS, well if they have their failures also well it indicates players want more content and better quality storylines. Instead of bending my knees in front if CCP I underlined majors bugs of the game. I payed to play eve, so has we all do.
Good thing about eve it most certainly setted some standards of quality in the industry. As of content well maybe another MMORG will pick up. Some folks are disapointed of WOW, I am about eve and some about others.
A thing I noticed is that the best developpers go in 1st shooters and such game cuz the market is there actually. Wont mean it will not change in the future. Maybe MMORGS will start to attrack better developpers. And eve is not the last. Maybe eve will overcome it's majors defenciencies who knows. I am not digging a six foot deep hole and ready to burry eve. One thing is good about open criticism: IT BRINGS CHANGES. If you glorify something it becomes and idol. Eve is not one. If it become one it will burry itself. Openly talking about stuff THAT DONT WORK in a game is good. Bring stuff to change.
A thing really strange about eve everywhere from the post in the website to the dev blobs in the website is that if you talk about what goes wrong in eve it's: SHUT UP EVE IS GREAT PERIOD IF YOU DONT LIKE IT THAT IS BECAUSE YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THE BASIC EVE FACT. Then you have 200 eve specialist that dictates you what to think.
lol
I do understand eve's dynamic and more then most peeps in the game dont worry. I dont pretend to have the whole truth but some things bugs me alot. I spent numerous hours in eve trying to get what I was doing wrong to end up discovering it's the game itself that as some really twisted sides. I passed them in review. Openly saying what is wrong is good. That is what we are doing here and maybe this will get some peeps to go out and say to the dev well some things in eve really need to be corrected. I hope so.
Would be a good thing for alot of peeps in the game. Me my game is over with eve but did shared my comments on the game and wont stop either.
You want more content and storyline : The storyline is updated twice a week with player based events, EVE is the only MMO on the market to do so. Content, there are new patches every 5-6 weeks that add ALOT of new things.
You keep talking about major problems and each time your only stating that there is a gap between newbies and high SP characters which, I think about 4 people have tried to tell you dosen't affect much but I guess your not big on actualy reading what other people have to say.
As for telling you to shut up, no one said that, we just said try to put "facts" into your arguments, wait a minute that's what you said you did, but you don't. "I just stated that EVE sucks as is." Wait a minute, that's a personnal sattement with 0 fact. Your stating your personnal opinion and downing the game because you don't like the way the skill system works and seem to be bored with missions. That's fine, you find the missions repetitive, dosen't mean the game sucks. Maybe if you spend more time gaving some facts instead of simply saying that the game failed to do whatever it is you think it failed to do, we wouldn't blast you for downing the game.
There is a difference between negative criticism and simply bashing something. To criticize, you have to form consent, fact based arguments and deductions, something you failed altogether to do. So either, restate your arguments by basing them somewhat on fact or stop complaining, this site was meant to come talk and have conversations about various MMO's, not whine about your bad experiences with them.
P.S.: Comments on bugs and macro users is total BS. I've been playing for 8 months myself and have encountered bugs, I'd say 4-5 times now. Everytime, the issue was ressolved less than an hour after the problem occured. As for macro miners, I use to mine for months and months and encountered one guy who looked like he was macro'ing. I reported him, and 2-3 days later, he disapeared. If you complain about them, nothing will come from it, inform the people who can make the changes happen and boom, problem solved, another abuser of the system gets his account banned.
Dakilla[666] ~ The Realm ~ Level 1000 enchanter (retired)
Maranthoric ~ La 4ieme Prophetie ~ Level 160 (5x) HE/Feu (de retour)
Leonthoric[DDC] ~ EVE online ~ <Fire The "Laser"> (retired)
Content patches are hardly every 5-6 weeks, more like 5-6 months. The slow rate of development is a negative for eve, not a positive. The turmoil and subsequent hotfix patches surrounding a big patch really are unbelievable for a game thats been around for ages. When a content patch does come around, all it is* are the same old ships with minor cosmetic differences and a load of stats that require balancing.
Eve is at best OK at the moment, it has a lot of good points and a few negatives. I still recommend it to people as it is definately worth experiencing. Unfortunately for me it is more of an addiction than a fun game to play. I've quit it 3 times already...
*sometimes they do add new ship designs, but it's very rare. And all new content does seem to focus on ships.
---sig---
PvE in general is pretty lame, if you think long and hard about it. You are spending your time beating a severely gimped AI that would lose to a well trained monkey. Best not to think too long and hard why you are wasting time playing games in general actually...
How can anyone say the skill system in Eve is one of its bad points? It's fantastic. At last, I don't need to 'grind' doing boring things like fight NPC to get my skills.
There has been 8 storyline news casts in the last week. What more are you looking for? I even took part in one of the events which affected the storyline.
Here is the last full content patch. Doesn't look only like adding ships to me. Every patch since has added some form of content but not as much.
Starbases are anchored at moons and can be deployed in systems with up to 0.3 security rating. Tech Level 2 Construction Component blueprints require moon materials for production. These materials are harvested from moons and made by Reactors and Reactions. Control Towers of Starbase consume various commodities and Ice products gathered from Ice mining. Moon survey scanning is done by launching a moon survey probe in the direction of the moon and waiting for the results, which shows up in a separate moon survey result window. Starbase structures will be sold on the market (No blueprints, ORE are monopolistic bastards). Tech Level 2 Components Blueprints, Reaction Blueprints and XL ammo blueprints are also available on the market.
Starbases count towards Alliance sovereignty of a system. To gain sovereignty of a system, an Alliance must own the majority of Starbases in a system. Sovereignty is displayed in the current location information and on the star map.
Major pirate factions now have their first Deadspace Complexes, trying to expand their grip on deep space. Complexes usually have ship limitations and some rooms require keys to get into which are usually gathered from Deadspace pocket overseers. Defenders of Complexes generally have less loot drops but overseers have adequate rewards. These are usually the best ways to get new faction technology.
Blueprints for Battlecruisers, Destroyers and Mining Barges are available on the market. NPC corporations will sell the Barges and Destroyers but Battlecruisers will be fully player manufactured. Faction ship can acquired through special offers your agent gives you for your loyalty to him and will be added to high level Complexes when they become available.
Ice fields and new qualities of ores can be seen all over the universe. Mining crystals are available for use in the Modulated Deep Core Miner II's and Modulated Strip Miner II's. These crystals and advanced Mining Lasers will come through Research Agents. Ice Harvester I and Strip Miner I's are available on the market in addition to the Mining Barges.
System Scanning Modules (Tech Level I) are available through the market. Tech Level 2 variants and at least one specialized ship will be added later (Recon Frigate most likely). System scanning requires 3 probes to be launched for successful triangulation. Lesser range probes are then used to narrow down the location and increase accuracy. Probes can be destroyed, this is one of the counter-measures to system scanning.
Ice fields, new nebula and planetary effects are in. Fly around and you should see them in most constellation.
First rogue drone Complexes are available in Empire. Their influence will expand and they will generate far more difficult Complexes.
Ship UI and user interface has gotten a general improvement in most areas. Some of the UI has moved to the new UI framework, which is much lighter. This has resulted in some of the framerate increase. All items in space now had a Quick Action menu which can be accessed by holding down the left mouse button on an item.
NPC Customs Officers are scanning players in Empire space. Agents in deep space offer illegal items based on loyalty and agents in Empire ask for illegal items through special offers. Customs police may be found at stargates in empire space. They will scan a random selection of the passersby and if they discover contraband, depending on what the contraband is, they will react in a range of ways. Discovery of any contraband results in a fine and a faction standing penalty - where the amount of each is determined by how much is found, the more items and wider variety of types, the higher the fine. Then, each illegal type has a confiscation security level and attack security level, where if the solar system you are found with it in has equal to or higher than that security level, they will engage you in the relevant action. If just confiscate applies, the Customs officers will confiscate it. If attack applies, they will attack you.
The Agent UI has had a number of improvements. Level 4 missions have started to use the pirates from Complexes. Level 4 kill missions will eventually feature Complexes as locations. The agent mission journal also offers more help with locations and describing mission goals.
Agents now offer their loyal agent runners special offers with faction loot, faction ships, demand and supply for illegal items and manufacturing missions where they offer to manufacture various named items for ingredients and perhaps some less than lawful items.
Tactical view now shows range intersection, optimal and falloff ranges when hovering the mouse over turrets. Fleet command is limited to "Set Target" for gangs which can then be seen in the "Tag" column in the overview. This allows for better coordination in targeting both for fleet battles as well as smaller gangs.
Corporations Improvements with new specific hangar access roles, in addition to base assignment. Title assignment provide group roles and blueprint lockdown. Both Directors and CEO's can now propose votes.
Alliances can now be formally created. Remember to send your Alliance logo to the SCC if you want it in-game ([email protected]). These will be added to the Alliance database via the monthly patches.
The biggest change to normal corporation warfare is a war declaration now costs ISK. The amount of this charge is dependant upon how many existing wars the aggressor is currently fighting/ There is also a weekly maintenance fee and for sustaining each war. Corporations within an alliance can't declare war on, or have war declared on them by, other corporations or alliances. War must be declared on or by the parent alliance.
Market is now accessible from space, allowing remote selling. Commodity market now works on endless supplies with volatile price fluctuations.
Notepad and Calculator are available through the Neocom.
The In-game browser now offers HTML 3.2 and CSS support
Press Ctrl-F to get a framerate counter. A lot of improvements have been done to address fleet battles, client framerate, bandwidth utilization and server performance. Improvements will continue to be made in the future.
Further information on EXODUS features are available here.
Other Changes, Fixes and Modifications
The thread discussion is on skills and the system of skilling as it is in eve right now.
Fact: the developpers like the way it is right now.
Fact: the skill system the way it is creates two kind of players that can hardly cooperate.
Fact: some people like the skill system and some dont.
Fact: the skills take ages to bring up (this statement come Oveur a developper himself and not me).
Fact: there are "loads" of new skills added every month to every months. (if I said other wise I was out there). As of the term "load" this come from TOMB another developper and not me and this refers to the next patch COSMOS and can be applyed to the last patch and EXODUS patch.
Fact: The list of skills required to play eve is getting longer.
Fact: New players are faced with a very long list of skills to bring up.
Fact: If you start a character today in eve you will need an extensive period of preparation before enjoying the game.
Fact: If today you start a character you will have limited interation with the possibilities of the game.
Fact: New players quit before having a playable character.
Telling me I did'nt gave facts is tendancious and indicates something I have noticed from the discussions in the eve forums and is been carried here too by very implicated players in eve.
Eve online is an addictive game. When it come to talking about the good sides as of the bad sides of the game becomes an intricate complex discussion on highly technical data accessible to very skilled players. It tend to leave the rational to a very emotive level of dicussion.
I will state this:
Eve is an online game no more no less.
Eve is a product and it is on the market as other MMORG.
Eve as a product that can be openly talked about.
Fact: TOMB said about last discussion on the missile modifications "Be aware of what you post here (referring to the missile modifications forum in eve online website), this forum is moderated very cruel people".
This is a clear indication that some players in the game are way over their head with eve online.
Fact: you need to have some guts now to talk about eve online. Eve website forums are filled now with peeps being shut off and often you will be argued that you dont know what you are talking bout etc. I am really not surprised of what I hear here because this is going on in the eve online website. Most players dont post anything because they will be gagged or shut off by very implicated players that are way over their head into eve online.
I will not copy and paste massive data here. Maybe a link or a thread is enoth. If people want to get them they will or not.
Adding massive data to shut off somedy is in my eye censorship.
I will continue to have a very constructive approach to eve and the problems there is in the game.
I am not a "spcecialist" of eve online and neither needs to be to play a MMORG.
Have a nice game.
Something that could help with the difference between old and new players, would be doing the old players slower getting skill points. Like if you would be getting older in game. So it would make a little smaller the difference between both groups.
Um, that already happens. Getting from lv4 to lv5 can take 20 days for only a 2% increase.
That's exactly what the skill system does! Level 3 takes no time at all to get, level 5 and more advanced skills take ages. Therefore young players can quickly become "almost as good" and old players take a LONG time to squeeze out those extra 5%'s or train for advanced stuff like Tech2 guns.