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Do I still need to afk grind into oblivion?

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  • CecropiaCecropia Member RarePosts: 3,985

    Originally posted by DarthRaiden

    Originally posted by Cecropia

    Glad I'm not the only one who has noticed this.

    Considering how long ago Darkfall released, it's remarkable that there is a small band of "veteran haters" still skulking around. You'd think at some point one would want to spend time on the internet a bit more wisely. To each his own, I guess.

    At least he is informed about the game having played it for 2 years, many others so called "critics" dont even in touch or have their very old "launch" impression in mind.

    What i  respect about Madness is he talks about actual experiences from himslef  what i not agree is why he has always to pick on the negative ones and not the positive the game has to offer (hence some people will  even complain about aspects while being in paradise)  well i guess thats the space for me then.

    I wasn't referring to Madness in my post :) I have no issue with someone who offers a genuine opinion that isn't 100% negative all the time.

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden Member UncommonPosts: 4,333

    Originally posted by Cecropia

    Originally posted by DarthRaiden


    Originally posted by Cecropia

    Glad I'm not the only one who has noticed this.

    Considering how long ago Darkfall released, it's remarkable that there is a small band of "veteran haters" still skulking around. You'd think at some point one would want to spend time on the internet a bit more wisely. To each his own, I guess.

    At least he is informed about the game having played it for 2 years, many others so called "critics" dont even in touch or have their very old "launch" impression in mind.

    What i  respect about Madness is he talks about actual experiences from himslef  what i not agree is why he has always to pick on the negative ones and not the positive the game has to offer (hence some people will  even complain about aspects while being in paradise)  well i guess thats the space for me then.

    I wasn't referring to Madness in my post :) I have no issue with someone who offers a genuine opinion that isn't 100% negative all the time.

    sorry, mismatched the chain of quotes somehow.

    -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
    $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
    -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

    "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

  • CecropiaCecropia Member RarePosts: 3,985

    Originally posted by DarthRaiden

    sorry, mismatched the chain of quotes somehow.

    No worries. Happens to me every now and again as well.

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • AnnwynAnnwyn Member UncommonPosts: 2,854

    Originally posted by DarthRaiden

    Originally posted by MadnessRealm


    Originally posted by xanphia



    So, do you play anymore?

    I haven't since late September 2010. Grew tired of paying and waiting after the 4th or 5th delay for Hellfreeze. Still looking at ForumFall though, hoping that the Armor System will be the nerf to hybrid that I'm waiting for, and that DarkFall Arena will also be the expansion that will make me resub.

     

    Don't get me wrong, I've played for almost 2 years so I'd be lying if I said I didn't like DarkFall. In fact, I really do like Darkfall. Hell, I can't even play tab-targetting games anymore (saves for 2 mmos) because of Darkfall. But after 2 years, I just can't get past the problems anymore so I chose not to sub until Aventurine decides to change the game enough.

    UI change, siege mechnics changes, armor specs (and new armor sets) and probably prestige classes will bring you certainly back then ;) 

    UI has never really been an issue for me. It's a little clunky and it does need some improvements, but that's never been a show-stopper for me in DarkFall.  Siege Mechanics, I'm not too sure what changes will be made so, if they at least fix Self-Sieging and give Clans the ability to siege more than one holding, that will be a plus.  As for Armor Specs and Prestige Classes, my main concern with Prestige Classes is that it would be close to useless against Hybrid (given the ability to use everything) but perhaps the Armor System will be the "nerf" to hybrid, or at least I'm hopeful.

    I think AV did an alright job reducing the grind, although I'm not quite a fan of the meditation system which doesn't quite "fit" with the genre, but nonetheless, grind has been reduced to a reasonable time frame and provided that Prestige Classes are accessible early or that the armor system is enough to let players focus on certain skills or spells, the grind will be perfect.

    We won't be seeing Prestige Classes this year though, but if the armor system is strong enough and lawless areas are introduced, then I might resub. After that, I only hope that AV will begin focusing on aspects other than PvP like Crafting and Economy to add more depth and create a better economy and shaping up the game a little more. Guess only time will tell.

     

    The main reason why I'm so vocal about the issues in DarkFall is that it's the only way for Aventurine to become aware of those issues and work to fix them. They probably would never have worked to change the Alignement System or reduce the grind otherwise.

  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden Member UncommonPosts: 4,333

    Originally posted by MadnessRealm

    UI has never really been an issue for me. It's a little clunky and it does need some improvements, but that's never been a show-stopper for me in DarkFall.  Siege Mechanics, I'm not too sure what changes will be made so, if they at least fix Self-Sieging and give Clans the ability to siege more than one holding, that will be a plus.  As for Armor Specs and Prestige Classes, my main concern with Prestige Classes is that it would be close to useless against Hybrid (given the ability to use everything) but perhaps the Armor System will be the "nerf" to hybrid, or at least I'm hopeful.

    I think AV did an alright job reducing the grind, although I'm not quite a fan of the meditation system which doesn't quite "fit" with the genre, but nonetheless, grind has been reduced to a reasonable time frame and provided that Prestige Classes are accessible early or that the armor system is enough to let players focus on certain skills or spells, the grind will be perfect.

    We won't be seeing Prestige Classes this year though, but if the armor system is strong enough and lawless areas are introduced, then I might resub. After that, I only hope that AV will begin focusing on aspects other than PvP like Crafting and Economy to add more depth and create a better economy and shaping up the game a little more. Guess only time will tell.

     

    The main reason why I'm so vocal about the issues in DarkFall is that it's the only way for Aventurine to become aware of those issues and work to fix them. They probably would never have worked to change the Alignement System or reduce the grind otherwise.

    Nor me have a big issue with the UI and i guess the actual players have in majority litle issue with it or it isn't that heigh on priority. 

    What does it mean now that they focussed since a year now on something like that  ? i have drawn my own conclusions. 

    The active official forum community isn't the only source for feedback for AV.

    The "UI Issue" has been an agenda item from people in beta and early launch times and had been very vocally presented that time. Seems AV don't forgot about it and want to still attract these part of playerbase back who 's biggest problem was the UI. Same about prestige classes, personally i thought they wouldn't be needed but AV obviously never had them written off.

    "The grind" is the only thing that has been touched several times "out of their internal planned proccessing on progression" and from time to time some adjustments. On everything else they have their own vision on which steps they do first and what comes next. 

     

     

     

     

    -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
    $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
    -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

    "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

  • SorrowhoSorrowho Member Posts: 581

    Originally posted by Kost

    Originally posted by xanphia

    I don't get these 6 months of grinding to get pvp ready. It takes maybe 1-2 months. If you're a min maxer, sure, 6 months sounds right. Some people on these boards are such ragers.

    2 months tops, some people have done it in 3 weeks.

    The problem is not the grind, or even the game, it is the complete and utter lack of dedication shown by certain players who want everything handed to them without any real effort.

    2 months top for a destroyer or your talking about getting competive magic to?

    maybe some of the lack of dedication, comes because people like you make biased statements.

    the grind for a competive destroyer is around 2 months max for a casual but the mage grind is far longer, and also requires meele.

     

     

    not to mention its defintly the game to thats at fault here, theirs horible balance for stuff under 75 +, and theirs stil many benefits in macroing their need to solve.  

    just as my previous example, a selfbuff elemental protection buff getting it to lvl 30 is probaly around 500 casts, at witch points it adds 2.2 elemetal protection, where as a macroer, gets the skill to 75 + and its adds 3.5 + elemtanl protection...

    thats a difference in 1.00 or more elemental protection.

    and to really understand it you need to know of armors with plate helmet having a difference in elemental protection from a infernal helmet, for around 0.75 elemental protections.

    Plate helmet cost = 300 gold

    Infernal helmet cost = 6000 gold

     

     

    their need to do something about, self buffs, buff others, debuffs, heal others, utility skills, either decrease the grind on em or increase the gains on mobs or balance em a lot better.

    however you can lvl em all without macroing execept selfbuffs, but their all horibly boring stuff to do, witch is the games fault.

  • Sid_ViciousSid_Vicious Member RarePosts: 2,177

    Originally posted by MadnessRealm

    Originally posted by DarthRaiden


    Originally posted by MadnessRealm


    Originally posted by xanphia



    So, do you play anymore?

    I haven't since late September 2010. Grew tired of paying and waiting after the 4th or 5th delay for Hellfreeze. Still looking at ForumFall though, hoping that the Armor System will be the nerf to hybrid that I'm waiting for, and that DarkFall Arena will also be the expansion that will make me resub.

     

    Don't get me wrong, I've played for almost 2 years so I'd be lying if I said I didn't like DarkFall. In fact, I really do like Darkfall. Hell, I can't even play tab-targetting games anymore (saves for 2 mmos) because of Darkfall. But after 2 years, I just can't get past the problems anymore so I chose not to sub until Aventurine decides to change the game enough.

    UI change, siege mechnics changes, armor specs (and new armor sets) and probably prestige classes will bring you certainly back then ;) 

    UI has never really been an issue for me. It's a little clunky and it does need some improvements, but that's never been a show-stopper for me in DarkFall.  Siege Mechanics, I'm not too sure what changes will be made so, if they at least fix Self-Sieging and give Clans the ability to siege more than one holding, that will be a plus.  As for Armor Specs and Prestige Classes, my main concern with Prestige Classes is that it would be close to useless against Hybrid (given the ability to use everything) but perhaps the Armor System will be the "nerf" to hybrid, or at least I'm hopeful.

    I think AV did an alright job reducing the grind, although I'm not quite a fan of the meditation system which doesn't quite "fit" with the genre, but nonetheless, grind has been reduced to a reasonable time frame and provided that Prestige Classes are accessible early or that the armor system is enough to let players focus on certain skills or spells, the grind will be perfect.

    We won't be seeing Prestige Classes this year though, but if the armor system is strong enough and lawless areas are introduced, then I might resub. After that, I only hope that AV will begin focusing on aspects other than PvP like Crafting and Economy to add more depth and create a better economy and shaping up the game a little more. Guess only time will tell.

     

    The main reason why I'm so vocal about the issues in DarkFall is that it's the only way for Aventurine to become aware of those issues and work to fix them. They probably would never have worked to change the Alignement System or reduce the grind otherwise.

    The forums are no longer the best place to find out about the newest changes. You usually only find out about changes that someone rages about along with the same old stuff repeated again and again. To find the most accurate updates and info it will come from here: http://www.darkfallonline.com/blog/ and to find out most accurately whether those updates were any good is not to ask forumfall unfortunately or browse what people complain about but its to find out for yourself or to ask someone that you know. Some people don't even bother going into the forums anymore since they can just check out what AV is working on with regular updates.

     

    The population is picking up and I am having a blast discovering new areas I've never been to, etc. I only have a couple hours to play a day at most and I am not a hybrid and playing mostly solo since my last clan took a break but I guess they are back now but I haven't caught up.

     

    The grind was reduced so much that you will be way behind everyone because even vets are using meditation now and half of the server will have max stats by the time the next expansion comes out. So even though you have played for 2 years or macroed and whatever else you did to get ahead, you will have another carrot to chase whenever you do come back so I am guessing that you will have a lot of the same complaints as you did before but its extremely easy to max your stats. You never have to put in more than 5k a day (thats if your skill is almost 100, its MUCH cheaper each day before that, like 2k a day cheaper for just ten points less).

     

    AV has recently talked about armor placing restrictions that are customizable and using the prestige classes to chose what enhancements to go with or maybe even to be able to use a spell that would normally be locked by the armor. From everything that they have stated it seems that the hybrid will not be able to wear anything without locking certain schools or spells or skills.

     

    Since the alignment changes I have only been helped or ignored by every blue that I have come across. They do not even seem to wonder much if I am there to hurt them since I am blue. Its a pretty different feel when living in NPC cities now and they are totally nooby friendly. Those lawless areas are needed though because I don't know how I could siege or something without turning red. Being red is fine though but I prefer blue because I am a casual player and do not have to ride a mount as much to visit wilderness banks or whatever. I haven't PKed for a long while but hope to all night tonight so I'll update this post if being blue was a problem but it certainly has felt like its back to RvR around the NPC cities like in the old days. So far it hasn't been bad and everything has been just peachy, fine, and dandy. I will be glad to go red again whenever I do (when pop booms and till then I'll be helping noobs and working my character). There should never be a completely safe zone anywhere in this game though. I am kind of upset that come-hither now makes you go rogue but I guess I can see how with multiple people the potential for griefing is so much greater but I mean if a guy is AFK with a bunch of stuff and crafting than a blue player should be able to make a decision like, "hrmmm should I risk taking an alignment hit to see if there is a decent score?" Come hither would not have changed the fact that you have to pay lots to get it back. NPC cities are more carebear than clan cities for the first time . ... lol even chaos cities used to be more carebear than NPC cities.

     

    Oh btw the siege system has been redone. Patch is coming soon or has already come. No more self sieging and you can siege multiple holdings.

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  • AnnwynAnnwyn Member UncommonPosts: 2,854

    Originally posted by Sid_Vicious

     

    I already follow DarkFall's blog (RSS feed). I just say ForumFall in general to keep it short.

    Population, I'm very skeptical about. I've seen areas where there's a lot of PvP, but I've also seen areas where the lands are void of civilization. Doubt it has changed much considering most of the larger clans since 2010 are still there, but still. If there's an increase in population, then I it's a good thing anyway.

    Armor System, we don't know much about it other than that they will put restrictions on skills. If it goes the way I hope, it could be interesting, otherwise we'll have to wait for Prestige Classes. AV also needs to complete the current sets of armors (mostly heavy armors and robes which are still missing pieces).

    Alignement System is weak in it's current form. Lawless areas will change this hopefully.

    As for Sieges, I do not believe the Siege System to have been redone yet. The patch that has put some limits on Clan Creation and Clan Inactivy has likely made Self-Sieging less popular, but I do not believe that sieging multiple has been mentionned yet, but I could be wrong.

  • xanphiaxanphia Member Posts: 684

    You, Madness, I have found consistent PvP today everywhere I go. I was as surprised as you would be probably. But it's been there. And we've been zerged out on several occasions.

  • AnnwynAnnwyn Member UncommonPosts: 2,854

    Ironic that I just mentionned Self-Siege and Multi-Siege, as I just read DarkFall's Activity Report 6th of May 2011 which covered the Siege mechanics. If everything goes well, it could be interesting. Bit sad AV didn't go into further details on the Lawless areas, was wondering how they would work on that, as in how large would the Lawful areas be versus the Lawless.

     

    Also slightly disappointed that AV seems to focus more on graphics when most players run on the lowest settings possible, rather than gameplay and sandbox. Oh well.

  • kastrixkastrix Member Posts: 75

    if i play around 8 houers a week. how long will it take before im viable in pvp and can be a part of siges and stuff??

  • AnnwynAnnwyn Member UncommonPosts: 2,854

    Originally posted by kastrix

    if i play around 8 houers a week. how long will it take before im viable in pvp and can be a part of siges and stuff??

    With only 8 hours a week, I'd say we're looking in the 3 months+ provided that you are focusing on grinding your offensive skills. Mainly because it takes a good amount of time in DarkFall to prepare yourself and reach your location, so that's already a lot of time "wasted". Once you reach the Siege part, if you mostly play on week-ends it should be alright, if you play during the week you might have trouble participating in them given your casual schedule. Depending on how the clan is prepared, sieges can take anywhere between 1-3 hours + 30 minutes to 1 hour of preparation before (traveling or teleporting if needed, etc).

  • rwittmaackrwittmaack Member Posts: 79

    Originally posted by Phry

    unfortunately.. unless DFO wishes to remain the least subscribed to PVP MMO ever.. it needs to learn a few lessons from games like Planetside..

    while reading the thread exactly that thought crossed my mind several times. how much better darkfall would be, if progression was more along planetside's instead of watching numbers rise over very long periods of time.

  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden Member UncommonPosts: 4,333

    Originally posted by rwittmaack

    Originally posted by Phry

    unfortunately.. unless DFO wishes to remain the least subscribed to PVP MMO ever.. it needs to learn a few lessons from games like Planetside..

    while reading the thread exactly that thought crossed my mind several times. how much better darkfall would be, if progression was more along planetside's instead of watching numbers rise over very long periods of time.

     

    Did Planetside had skill progression, was it a real MMORPG or just a FPS ?

     

     because there are FPS games out there to just smash others and DF wasnt supposed to be just that.

    -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
    $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
    -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

    "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

  • RealbigdealRealbigdeal Member UncommonPosts: 1,666

    Originally posted by DarthRaiden

    Originally posted by rwittmaack


    Originally posted by Phry

    unfortunately.. unless DFO wishes to remain the least subscribed to PVP MMO ever.. it needs to learn a few lessons from games like Planetside..

    while reading the thread exactly that thought crossed my mind several times. how much better darkfall would be, if progression was more along planetside's instead of watching numbers rise over very long periods of time.

     

    Did Planetside had skill progression, was it a real MMORPG or just a FPS ?

     

     because there are FPS games out there to just smash others and DF wasnt supposed to be just that.

     Aside from character progression and the whole pve, i dont see anything else RPG in darkfall. The lore of darkfall currently got nothing to do with darkfall. You waste your time on quest lines so no one do them.

    So dont wonder why most players dont like how we have to progress in darkfall. The only way to progress is to do repetitive task. This is not rpg, its like working in real life. Its cool to see bunch of players at diferent levels, but when every one usually wear the same gears, use the exact same skills in every fight, then the progression system is meaningless. So everyone wants to be capped.

    I mostly play FPS games myself and when i play darkfall, the only feature that is new from these game is mostly the risk. Just like any other fps games, you can quickly jump back in the fight if you got enough ready bags, no matter how far you are.(This is why i love darkfall)

    C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif

  • mmocrusadermmocrusader Member Posts: 7

    Originally posted by DarthRaiden

    Originally posted by rwittmaack


    Originally posted by Phry

    unfortunately.. unless DFO wishes to remain the least subscribed to PVP MMO ever.. it needs to learn a few lessons from games like Planetside..

    while reading the thread exactly that thought crossed my mind several times. how much better darkfall would be, if progression was more along planetside's instead of watching numbers rise over very long periods of time.

     

    Did Planetside had skill progression, was it a real MMORPG or just a FPS ?

     

     because there are FPS games out there to just smash others and DF wasnt supposed to be just that.

    Skill mechanics do not define what an MMORPG is or isn't.

    The overall problem with DF that inevitably drives people away from it is twitch skill effectivness being tied to a very tedius PvE grind. Even with the medititation system you still find yourself standing in a spot killing the same batch of mobs for maybe hours...just to improve skills to kill other players or collect gold to fuel the meditation system (to improve skills to kill other players)

    Another damning sign is AFK grinding is still very common. You can find people swimming or running casting macros in almost any town.

    The core issue with DF is that it is not sure what kind of game it wants to be, twitch PvP or grind PvE. It tries to be both and suffers for it.

    IMHO, a skill access system like PS would have suited DF much better.

    edit

    To answer the OP question

    Yes, however DF has added in off line skill training but you can still AFK grind and it goes a little faster because you are getting two progression at once. BUT you need a ton of gold to fuel the off line progression and the only way to get more gold is...grind more mobs. So no matter how you slice this game, it requires some seriously dedicated PvE grind.

  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden Member UncommonPosts: 4,333

    Originally posted by mmocrusader

    Skill mechanics do not define what an MMORPG is or isn't.

    IMO you are wrong about this.  It is one if not the central charecteristic of a MMORPG and even defines the genre if you have a avatar can progress his attributes and abilities and this progression can be saved for the next gaming session.   In games prior to MMMORPG you could save just the progression as whole (savegame) but in a MMORPG you save the progression in skills and stats and world around the avatar evolves, the avatar with his actual skills and stats is also THE central reference point for you in game, the only "constant" in the game and everything is related to your char. 

    The overall problem with DF that inevitably drives people away from it is twitch skill effectivness being tied to a very tedius PvE grind. Even with the medititation system you still find yourself standing in a spot killing the same batch of mobs for maybe hours...just to improve skills to kill other players or collect gold to fuel the meditation system (to improve skills to kill other players)

    The "problem" you describe is a subjective one. It reveals you there just for PvP and that you should have your skills and stats maxed so being most effective in it. It shows that you have a min-max mentality and the only reason you play DF is for the PvP. DF wasn't meant to be just that. For example i PvE a lot because i am enjoying it and because i like to create things, i like being the hunter type and collect the materials through hunting that can be used for crafting items etc. when i am out h8unting i like and welcome the PvP i might cross upon. There is a difference i am not go out to smash someone but to create and build something and if it happens these creates competition for whatever reason i welcome the PvP tied to it.        

    Another damning sign is AFK grinding is still very common. You can find people swimming or running casting macros in almost any town.

    There shouldnt be much of all of this  left considering the speed on skill up for meditation. probably just peeps who not have time to play the game at all and wouldn't play it otherwise. However, kill, report is your friend and helps to get rid of these. 

    The core issue with DF is that it is not sure what kind of game it wants to be, twitch PvP or grind PvE. It tries to be both and suffers for it.

    It is both ? try play a traditional MMORPG and you will miss the twitch part try play a FPS and you will miss a having a avatar and having to care yout his skills and stats in a evolving world. 

    IMHO, a skill access system like PS would have suited DF much better.

    edit

    To answer the OP question

    Yes, however DF has added in off line skill training but you can still AFK grind and it goes a little faster because you are getting two progression at once. BUT you need a ton of gold to fuel the off line progression and the only way to get more gold is...grind more mobs. So no matter how you slice this game, it requires some seriously dedicated PvE grind.

     

    It is not the only way but you right the most reliable way. ironically the best way to get gold is random luck finding the right chaos chest while exploring the landscape or winning the jackpot or from PvP capping the seatower, or on a lucky day ganking a overloaded crafter / hunter etc.  You right tho the most reliable is PvE especially when you are new.

    -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
    $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
    -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

    "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

  • mmocrusadermmocrusader Member Posts: 7

    Originally posted by DarthRaiden

    Originally posted by mmocrusader



    Skill mechanics do not define what an MMORPG is or isn't.

    IMO you are wrong about this.  It is one if not the central charecteristic of a MMORPG and even defines the genre if you have a avatar can progress his attributes and abilities and this progression can be saved for the next gaming session.   In games prior to MMMORPG you could save just the progression as whole (savegame) but in a MMORPG you save the progression in skills and stats and world around the avatar evolves, the avatar with his actual skills and stats is also THE central reference point for you in game, the only "constant" in the game and everything is related to your char. 

    The overall problem with DF that inevitably drives people away from it is twitch skill effectivness being tied to a very tedius PvE grind. Even with the medititation system you still find yourself standing in a spot killing the same batch of mobs for maybe hours...just to improve skills to kill other players or collect gold to fuel the meditation system (to improve skills to kill other players)

    The "problem" you describe is a subjective one. It reveals you there just for PvP and that you should have your skills and stats maxed so being most effective in it. It shows that you have a min-max mentality and the only reason you play DF is for the PvP. DF wasn't meant to be just that. For example i PvE a lot because i am enjoying it and because i like to create things, i like being the hunter type and collect the materials through hunting that can be used for crafting items etc. when i am out h8unting i like and welcome the PvP i might cross upon. There is a difference i am not go out to smash someone but to create and build something and if it happens these creates competition for whatever reason i welcome the PvP tied to it.        

    Another damning sign is AFK grinding is still very common. You can find people swimming or running casting macros in almost any town.

    There shouldnt be much of all of this  left considering the speed on skill up for meditation. probably just peeps who not have time to play the game at all and wouldn't play it otherwise. However, kill, report is your friend and helps to get rid of these. 

    The core issue with DF is that it is not sure what kind of game it wants to be, twitch PvP or grind PvE. It tries to be both and suffers for it.

    It is both ? try play a traditional MMORPG and you will miss the twitch part try play a FPS and you will miss a having a avatar and having to care yout his skills and stats in a evolving world. 

    IMHO, a skill access system like PS would have suited DF much better.

    edit

    To answer the OP question

    Yes, however DF has added in off line skill training but you can still AFK grind and it goes a little faster because you are getting two progression at once. BUT you need a ton of gold to fuel the off line progression and the only way to get more gold is...grind more mobs. So no matter how you slice this game, it requires some seriously dedicated PvE grind.

     

    It is not the only way but you right the most reliable way. ironically the best way to get gold is random luck finding the right chaos chest while exploring the landscape or winning the jackpot or from PvP capping the seatower, or on a lucky day ganking a overloaded crafter / hunter etc.  You right tho the most reliable is PvE especially when you are new.

    Well its a perspective thing I guess.

    IMHO if you market a game as PvP but then pull a switch to 90% PvE something is wrong with the core concept.

    I can't really disagree with any of your points except for maybe the mechanics but then there is no real definintion of what makes an MMORPG hence the vast assortment of games. Nothing mechanically defines an MMORPG. MMO (massive multi player) is a term coined by Richard Garriott who just kinda blurted it out. RPG's are just as diverse as MMORPG's as far as game mechanics go, probably far more so.

    Trying to pin down what actually makes an RPG is very elusive. In it's most raw definition it is a game in which you play a role. everything else just facilitiates that.

    Now DF on its own merits, as far as the PvE goes, the AI is far superior to most MMO's I'll grant it that.

    The issue I have with the AFK thing is that it is viable. The fact that you can even do it shows a huge problem with the mechanics of the game. That is my only point.

    Yes, it is both PvE and PvP just like Lineage 2 or Guild Wars. However L2 and GW mechanically do not use two different systems. They are traditional MMO style games. DF uses two. You fight with twitch but the mechanics behind most of it is math based. So although I may be a better twitch player then you, through superior math (skill levels and such), you will beat me.

    IMHO a better route to this would have been a skill progressing that opens up more abilities with advancement rather then math. The game sorta does that but then you get stuck re-leveling those abilities like knockback, whirl wind and what not. Additionally there seems to be a balence issue making two handed swords the perferred weapon cutting out just about any diversity. And that opens up a whole other can of worms...

    Don't get me wrong, DF is a very unique and a great choice as an alternitive to traditional grind games but it has some serious holes in its design.

    The world design is probably the best in the last few years at least.

    The fact they are still working on things like the sound and lighting or just now fixing the seige system...two years after launch speaks volumes. I understand they are a small dev house but this is the sort of thing that gives the genre a black eye.

  • xanphiaxanphia Member Posts: 684

    This thread is still going. Wow.

  • RealbigdealRealbigdeal Member UncommonPosts: 1,666

    Originally posted by xanphia

    This thread is still going. Wow.

     Yep. Because its a unique DF feature thats suppose to get you banned. Usually, cheating discussions are popular, but they always get close early and the poster can receive an infraction for that. After more then a year, the DF GM's and the moderators in here finally understand that macroing is the only way to progress in some important skills in order to compete.

    Either way, this give a bad name to darkfall. Players who wants to seek information will look away once they see that macroing is allowed. After 2 years, we can macro easily just like the 1st day of darkfall. If the DF gm kept on banning us for macroing, there would be few players left including players who got away with it.

    So yeah, dakrfall is the only game in existance where you can freely speak about macroing and third party programs.

    C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif

  • xanphiaxanphia Member Posts: 684

    Originally posted by Realbigdeal

    Originally posted by xanphia

    This thread is still going. Wow.

     Yep. Because its a unique DF feature thats suppose to get you banned. Usually, cheating discussions are popular, but they always get close early and the poster can receive an infraction for that. After more then a year, the DF GM's and the moderators in here finally understand that macroing is the only way to progress in some important skills in order to compete.

    Either way, this give a bad name to darkfall. Players who wants to seek information will look away once they see that macroing is allowed. After 2 years, we can macro easily just like the 1st day of darkfall. If the DF gm kept on banning us for macroing, there would be few players left including players who got away with it.

    So yeah, dakrfall is the only game in existance where you can freely speak about macroing and third party programs.

    Fine by me.

    If anything you shouldn't blame the game but the players. Their mentality of play to win or crush, pushed people to power level in an attempt to get an advantage.

  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden Member UncommonPosts: 4,333

    Originally posted by Realbigdeal

    Originally posted by xanphia

    This thread is still going. Wow.

     Yep. Because its a unique DF feature thats suppose to get you banned. Usually, cheating discussions are popular, but they always get close early and the poster can receive an infraction for that. After more then a year, the DF GM's and the moderators in here finally understand that macroing is the only way to progress in some important skills in order to compete.

    Either way, this give a bad name to darkfall. Players who wants to seek information will look away once they see that macroing is allowed. After 2 years, we can macro easily just like the 1st day of darkfall. If the DF gm kept on banning us for macroing, there would be few players left including players who got away with it.

    So yeah, dakrfall is the only game in existance where you can freely speak about macroing and third party programs.

    Macroing is legal if you at the keyboard, if you you have kept it at that it would have been perfectly fine but again you claim is if AFK macroing where allowed by DF and it isn't ! 

    The company has several times stated that afk macroing is against the rules and GM's will act against anyone afk macroing.

    I can tell you a lot games where it is perfectly fine to use macro's several of them have even a build in macro language for creating macros you like. It is the AFK part that no one will accept here at DF except those who play foul and using it.

    I have never afk macro'd and report afk macro'r.

      

    -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
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  • chriselchrisel Member UncommonPosts: 990

    I had forgotten this thread. Looking into it, and seeing it still very much alive and good discussion going on here. While I am still playing FM2011, my thoughts do go back to Darkfall Online from time to time. Are there any "good" news for the casual player that I am, who demands "instant gratification"? I would very much like to return to  DFO, as long as the grind where considerably reduced.

    Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!

  • NevulusNevulus Member UncommonPosts: 1,288

    A great game would makes you forget about the grind during the process of engaging gameplay.

    Just something to think about.

  • jdnewelljdnewell Member UncommonPosts: 2,237

    Originally posted by Hotjazz

    Originally posted by Arcken

     Making people pvp viable from their first day would alleviate one of the biggest problems with Darkfalls player retention rate.

     It wouln`t ruin the game if AV redused the grind significantly. I know some might think DF would be like quake if they did, but with the constant need for gear and mats, I disagree. If it was true a faster grind would turn DF into Quake, then all we have now is Quake with a grind.

     

    Darkfall isn`t about leveling up like most other mmos, Darkfall is all about end game. Unlike other mmos, Darkfall has a great endgame. It is the wars and politics that make DF shine. If you have taken part in a large sea battle or an epic siege, you will never be satisfied with an instanced battleground again.

     

    We do alot of PVE to replace our lost gear. What makes DF pve fun is not the NPCs AI, it is the danger you have from getting jumped. If I have acquired a lot of valuables from pve, every strange sound makes it feel like I`m playing a horror game. I hate killing NPCs and the thought of losing my hard work makes me jumpy.

     

    I do hope the armor specilization will remove the level grind. I have played for two years, but still I macro attended as we speak. I have only dexterity left to meditate, but the number of spells I still need to grind is huge.

    The part in red pretty much sums up why many people, such as myself, will never give this game a try.

    If a 2 year vet still has a " huge" number of spells to grind, and "still" needs to macro then what could possibly entice new people into this game?

    I would not expect to jump into any game and be on par with vet players, but a reasonable amount of time to catch up is a must to draw new players into a game.

    Being everyone's bitch for 6-12 months is not my idea of fun, nor many others I would imagine.

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