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Is this another questhub game with instance pve and pvp?

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  • mm0wigginsmm0wiggins Member Posts: 270

    Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

     

    So, basically you're saying "I dislike open world pvp if it has no larger meaning" as well as "I dislike open world pvp if it has objectives". Basically you just hate open world pvp? Or is it just open world pvp in SWTOR, because you assume (here's the word again) that it'll be wrong for you anyway whatever kind they implement?

    Sounds to me like prejudiced against open world pvp in SWTOR.

    On the contrary, I'm much more interested in World pvp in the MMORPGs i pay for...  My point is that it's a bit of a downer that there has to be some objective involved for other players to engage in combat with other players.  

    I think It's a shame that the games are developed to promote the idea that "if you're not getting gear. you have no reason to do this" ...   Simply playing a character in a combat situation and winning/losing is what pvp is for.   Or changing the politics/environment/control/gameplay mechanics, etc...  those are reasons for pvp that are substantial.   But as soon as a dev adds instances for pvp with objectives and rewards, they are promoting that pvp is only another tool to use to aquire items. 

    That is just wrong.   I don't see how you could disagree.    Did you PVP at all before WoW:BC?  Do you remember what it feels like to have your faction control a continent or access to an area of a map simply because they were superior at combat?  Do you remember what it's like to be completely over thrown and how it pushes you or your team or faction to do better because you lost a significant battle?   

    Do you really think all we need is "oh, we won. more tokens. requeue and let's do it again.   oh, we lost.  less tokens.  requeue and do it again."?  REALLY????

    This is not a troll, flame, or anything else worth banning me over. It is simply my pure opinion, and I have a right to share it.

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

    Originally posted by mm0wiggins

    That is just wrong.   I don't see how you could disagree.    Did you PVP at all before WoW:BC?  Do you remember what it feels like to have your faction control a continent or access to an area of a map simply because they were superior at combat?  Do you remember what it's like to be completely over thrown and how it pushes you or your team or faction to do better because you lost a significant battle?   

    Do you really think all we need is "oh, we won. more tokens. requeue and let's do it again.   oh, we lost.  less tokens.  requeue and do it again."?  REALLY????

    I disagree that there has to be a choice between either instanced pvp or open world pvp. Yes, I can see how it worked in WoW, but I also know how it worked in AoC where you had instanced arena pvp but still also huge neverending battles in Kheshatta with fluid, constantly changing alliances and sides. Those two could exist next to eachother without cancelling eachother out.

    It's all in the implementation, and that's why I don't auto-dismiss the plans that BW has with pvp.

     


    Originally posted by Ebil_Piwat

    Don't forget the new incentive for PvP..

    Commendations!image

    It's easy to dismiss or scorn when you won't even know how it'll work in practice. People often are jackasses in PUG's, who knows, maybe this'll help towards a more constructive team play.

     

    I mean, before I experienced it I wouldn't have guessed that enforced grouping would also be helpful in building a server community, that quest based leveling would make a server community more solistic or that a handy tool as a cross server dungeon finder would make cultivate and stimulate a culture of antisocial, indifferent behaviour, while looking back now it's glaringly obvious. Sometimes it's little things or things we don't think much of at the moment that can have a far larger effect than we could suspect.

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • darnapkindarnapkin Member UncommonPosts: 146

    thanks for answering my questions

     

    bioware has never made me upset,  dragon age's story line was alittle weak to me but every other game has been solid, for the 59.99 or so I think that  would be worth the single player story line, I'm going to have to pick this up

  • shawn01shawn01 Member UncommonPosts: 166

    I dont understand why people are so horny for story based games. If i wanted to watch a movie id turn on the TV. I play mmos to make my own story, not have it told to me.

  • sonoggisonoggi Member Posts: 1,119

    Originally posted by MMO.Maverick Yes, I can see how it worked in WoW, but I also know how it worked in AoC where you had instanced arena pvp but still also huge neverending battles in Kheshatta with fluid, constantly changing alliances and sides. Those two could exist next to eachother without cancelling eachother out.

     

    cuz AOC's pvp was a success story amirite?

  • DarkPonyDarkPony Member Posts: 5,566

    Originally posted by shawn01

    I dont understand why people are so horny for story based games. If i wanted to watch a movie id turn on the TV. I play mmos to make my own story, not have it told to me.

    While watching a movie you can't decide if the officer lets the supposed criminal go, takes him in for questioning instead, or puts a cap in his ass.

    ... So much for the movie analogy.

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

    Originally posted by sonoggi

    Originally posted by MMO.Maverick Yes, I can see how it worked in WoW, but I also know how it worked in AoC where you had instanced arena pvp but still also huge neverending battles in Kheshatta with fluid, constantly changing alliances and sides. Those two could exist next to eachother without cancelling eachother out.

     cuz AOC's pvp was a success story amirite?

    It actually was in that aspect, pvp was lively, people were having fun in arena pvp and people were having fun in open world pvp in Kheshatta and other places, even in the sieges. And MMO gamers having fun in an MMO is what it's all about, don't you think?

     

    And the point why I used AoC as an example, instanced pvp and open pvp aren't mutually exclusive, both can be in an MMO while they're both enjoyed each for its own merits.

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • KyBoKyBo Member UncommonPosts: 140

    Originally posted by Kothoses

    Originally posted by nomss

    Originally posted by mikahr

    Yah, from available info its EQ/WoW/LOTRO/Rift... with SW skin.

    Thank you... good answer. I have been following the game quite closely and this is how I feel as well.

     

     

    Terrible answer, it has a lot of new features that other mmos havent tried or havent done anywhere near aswell.  It does a lot of the stuff the same, hotbar/ability based combat,  quest and exploration based advancement crafting, but it also has a diverse plot, companion characters, your own ship a retro style shooter and a lot of other stuff thats new or better than current mmos (allegedly)

     

    Yes it copies the parts that work, and it adds to them with a lot of new stuff.

    So, by aping the "good parts" of other games, it does exactly what WoW did 6 years ago?  

         This would be true if BW had actually improved any of the things that they barrowed from.  The Holy trinity and PvE Raids/PvP instances gear grind formulas are nothing new, nor is the ability to work to get the MOST EPIC gear, just so you can look like every other player who's attained said gear.  People will rave about VO, which has been in video games for over 15 years now.  The space content can be found in SOE's Clone Wars Adventure kids' game, and the "ship housing" (read: storage) is a joke compared to any other MMO's housing system.  Plenty of games offer pets (companions), and the "exploration based advancement", ie: datacrons, amounts to nothing more than a glorified Easter Egg hunt, or WoW's archaeology system.

         So yes, Nikahr's answer pretty much nails it. 

    If you are tired of the same decade-old recycled, reskinned MMO formula, This is not the game you're looking for.      

     

  • Ender4Ender4 Member UncommonPosts: 2,247


    Yah, from available info its EQ/WoW/LOTRO/Rift... with SW skin.

    EQ really does not belong in this list. WoW's casual PvE, casual PvP, hardcore PvP have nothing to do with EQ. The only comparison is in the fact they both had raid based hardcore PvE end games and even then the instanced vs non instanced and capped numbers vs non capped makes them completely different.

  • whilanwhilan Member UncommonPosts: 3,472

    Originally posted by Ender4

     




    Yah, from available info its EQ/WoW/LOTRO/Rift... with SW skin.


     

    EQ really does not belong in this list.

    EQ was basically a very trim quest verison of those games.  Basically in EQ you did maybe 2 or 3 quests, grind for levels grind for spells, grind for gear, grind for better gear, raid, group, dungeon crawls. Pretty much what you do in those other MMOs if you decided to skip the quests.

    Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.

    Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.

    image

  • miconamicona Member UncommonPosts: 677

    Originally posted by Metentso

    Originally posted by Swanea

    You mean "EQ MMOs".

    This is not SWG2, nor a sandbox themepark like MO.

    There are quests, and they stated you could skip quests at any time not directly related to your storyline and miss nothing.  There is "instances" for this game, especially for story elements they said.  The have hinted strongly at open world pvp with "pvp servers" being in.

    EQ (classic EQ) hardly had quests.

       EQ classic hardly had quests but it had long ass quests chain that took forever to finish or even doing your epic was pretty long sometimes and required your guild or a group .

  • whilanwhilan Member UncommonPosts: 3,472

    Originally posted by KyBo

    Originally posted by Kothoses


    Originally posted by nomss


    Originally posted by mikahr

    Yah, from available info its EQ/WoW/LOTRO/Rift... with SW skin.

    Thank you... good answer. I have been following the game quite closely and this is how I feel as well.

     

     

    Terrible answer, it has a lot of new features that other mmos havent tried or havent done anywhere near aswell.  It does a lot of the stuff the same, hotbar/ability based combat,  quest and exploration based advancement crafting, but it also has a diverse plot, companion characters, your own ship a retro style shooter and a lot of other stuff thats new or better than current mmos (allegedly)

     

    Yes it copies the parts that work, and it adds to them with a lot of new stuff.

    So, by aping the "good parts" of other games, it does exactly what WoW did 6 years ago?  

         This would be true if BW had actually improved any of the things that they barrowed from.  The Holy trinity and PvE Raids/PvP instances gear grind formulas are nothing new, nor is the ability to work to get the MOST EPIC gear, just so you can look like every other player who's attained said gear.  People will rave about VO, which has been in video games for over 15 years now.  The space content can be found in SOE's Clone Wars Adventure kids' game, and the "ship housing" (read: storage) is a joke compared to any other MMO's housing system.  Plenty of games offer pets (companions), and the "exploration based advancement", ie: datacrons, amounts to nothing more than a glorified Easter Egg hunt, or WoW's archaeology system.

         So yes, Nikahr's answer pretty much nails it. 

    If you are tired of the same decade-old recycled, reskinned MMO formula, This is not the game you're looking for.      

     

    I can semi understand the point of view in wow you do go from place to place for quest and you do that here as well. As you can tell from the videos.

    As for the combat i will respectively disagree based on having many CCs facing multiple enemies (thus having to keep track of more as each one could use different tatics against you, one range another melee another using CC)

    To me it's not so much the VO that i rave about, it's nice but what i really rave over is the ability to change the quest and have your say. It sort of puts you in control of the conversation and puts you involved in it. Plus putting things like pursade into the mix allows your stats to get involved when you pick up quests. In that sense i see the quest system really evolved from simply running up to an NPC and clicking accept.

    You get several things from exploration not just the datacrons. Yeah you do get the datacrons but thats to encourage exploration, you also get codex entries for additional lore, you get companion oppertunities, rare bosses, and thus rare loot, and xp (probably more that i've since forgotten)

    As for the dungoens and PvP yeah they may be similar but they've been upped a bit in the fact of the dungeons being changeable from when a person in your group wins the roll (ala if they kill the captain it changes the instance layout) Bringing certain classes will allow for different ways to progress and may get you to areas where there are special bosses.

    The holy trinity is there, yeah but it's not restrictive, you can choose to be any class and be dang near any type of those abilities. So it's more of a what type of character do you want to be then so much a required. I'd call it a soft trinity rather then a rigid one like say how WoW or most other MMOs work.

    Yep companions are pets in a way that they will follow your orders. I'd call them itellegent pets, and it's not so much that i'm trying to fancy up the word, these pets have personalities will react to sitautions in the story and will leave you, betray you, help you, craft for you, farm mats for you, go on diplomacy (get loot, xp, alignment points). Sounds a lot for a pet to me, but yes they still attack the target or heal you or tank the mobs while you blow them away.

    But in short if your looking for a complete diveragence or a sandbox game then yeah ths isn't the game for you.  If however you don't mind that, you do get plenty more in the quests that branch, exploration, what appears to be difficult fights and hopefully a fun community that would prefer to listen and interact in quests rather then just speed ahead to end game.

    Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.

    Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.

    image

  • inBOILinBOIL Member Posts: 669

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Originally posted by shawn01

    I dont understand why people are so horny for story based games. If i wanted to watch a movie id turn on the TV. I play mmos to make my own story, not have it told to me.

    While watching a movie you can't decide if the officer lets the supposed criminal go, takes him in for questioning instead, or puts a cap in his ass.

    ... So much for the movie analogy.

    and you believe that in swtor you can make your own story?

    --- so much for the gaming analogy.

    Generation P

  • DarkPonyDarkPony Member Posts: 5,566

    Originally posted by inBOIL

    Originally posted by DarkPony


    Originally posted by shawn01

    I dont understand why people are so horny for story based games. If i wanted to watch a movie id turn on the TV. I play mmos to make my own story, not have it told to me.

    While watching a movie you can't decide if the officer lets the supposed criminal go, takes him in for questioning instead, or puts a cap in his ass.

    ... So much for the movie analogy.

    and you believe that in swtor you can make your own story?

    --- so much for the gaming analogy.

    Within a range of fixed parameters you certainly can.

    Especially the alignment system with incentives for lightside, darkside and neutral walks of life (regardless of faction) will make that an interesting part of the game. Having a choice, influencing the story and having branching quests and/or outcomes related to the choices you make does a lot to alleviate the feeling of being in a 'story on rails'.

  • pwainpwain Member UncommonPosts: 115

    Originally posted by mikahr

    Yah, from available info its EQ/WoW/LOTRO/Rift... with SW skin.

     

    good answer

  • ktanner3ktanner3 Member UncommonPosts: 4,060

    Yes, it is exactly like that so you are best to move on to something else. For the rest of us who aren't burnt out on MMORPGS and are looking forward to the next level of KOTOR, see you in game :)

    Currently Playing: World of Warcraft

  • BetaguyBetaguy Member UncommonPosts: 2,614

    Originally posted by GMan3

    Originally posted by darnapkin

    Not really been following this game at all, been playing rift most the time, and to be honest, i'm so tired of quest hubs, grinding rep, and doing instances over and over for better gear and plaqs, I'm tired of the "wow" based mmorpgs.

     does this follow the same thing, or is this a breath of fresh air?

     Thanks

         Short answer - Yes, and . . . No.

     

        Long answer - Do the research and make up your own mind.

     This guy is false, it is no.

    image

  • SirBalinSirBalin Member UncommonPosts: 1,300

    Originally posted by darnapkin

    Not really been following this game at all, been playing rift most the time, and to be honest, i'm so tired of quest hubs, grinding rep, and doing instances over and over for better gear and plaqs, I'm tired of the "wow" based mmorpgs.

     

    does this follow the same thing, or is this a breath of fresh air?

     

     

    Thanks

     

    My take on it is each class has a specific story, if you are playing the lore of your story, a lot will be instanced.  Then there will be basic quests, which will be all open world.  Each side will probably have 1 or 2 starting area planets that have no open pvp, then all the other planets will be open, if on a pvp server.  If on a pve server, you would have to flag yourself.  You also have clan warring and they hinted to some type of territory type of wars?  In one of the interviews when the devs were asked about holding territories, they commented with, "we don't want to ruin anything."  So...looks good to me...I wasn't interested at all till I saw the pvp servers and read up on it.

    Incognito
    www.incognito-gaming.us
    "You're either with us or against us"


  • Originally posted by afhn2110

    Originally posted by darnapkin

    Not really been following this game at all, been playing rift most the time, and to be honest, i'm so tired of quest hubs, grinding rep, and doing instances over and over for better gear and plaqs, I'm tired of the "wow" based mmorpgs.

     

    does this follow the same thing, or is this a breath of fresh air?

     

     

    Thanks

     

    My take on it is each class has a specific story, if you are playing the lore of your story, a lot will be instanced.  Then there will be basic quests, which will be all open world.  Each side will probably have 1 or 2 starting area planets that have no open pvp, then all the other planets will be open, if on a pvp server.  If on a pve server, you would have to flag yourself.  You also have clan warring and they hinted to some type of territory type of wars?  In one of the interviews when the devs were asked about holding territories, they commented with, "we don't want to ruin anything."  So...looks good to me...I wasn't interested at all till I saw the pvp servers and read up on it.

    each side has 2 starter planets(ord mantell and tython for republic, hutta and korriban for empire) which as you said will be closed off to oppisite factions.  as far as we know currently the only other faction locked planets are the 2 captial worlds, coruscant and dormand kaas. 

    and on pve servers there will be designated open world pvp areas that you don't need to flag yourself.  if you enter, you go in knowing its open pvp.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/feature/5202

    Another one is a kind of PvP that naturally occurs when people don't like each other meet somewhere on the planet. Traditional, really. We did do a few change to the traditional formula, even on a PvE server, because we have PvP and PvE servers, and some people on PvE servers don't want to be subjected to PvP, we have a zone we're going to mark as, "There will be PvP. Beware." It's a dangerous place; you don't have to go there, I mean you will have a way to skirt it, but we want that kind of engagement to be there.

     

    http://darthhater.com/2011/05/05/fan-site-summit-gabe-amatangelo-interview/

    Gabe Amatangelo: I want to touch on open world PvP. We're going to have PvP servers, and on the PvE servers there will be designated PvP areas. On a PvE server, you aren't going to flag unless you want to flag yourself, or unless you go into a designated PvP area that is going to be completely isolated from quests and story lines and that kind of stuff. Now, we're not talking about the goals inside those areas today, but we are saying that it is there. People can go and fight each other there.

  • AgathuAgathu Member UncommonPosts: 39

    Originally posted by sinjin

    Originally posted by GMan3


    Originally posted by darnapkin

    Not really been following this game at all, been playing rift most the time, and to be honest, i'm so tired of quest hubs, grinding rep, and doing instances over and over for better gear and plaqs, I'm tired of the "wow" based mmorpgs.

     does this follow the same thing, or is this a breath of fresh air?

     Thanks

         Short answer - Yes, and . . . No.

     

        Long answer - Do the research and make up your own mind.

     This guy is false, it is no.

     Actually he is correct. Yes there will be quest hubs, the devs have stated that. But as far as we know there is no grinding rep and instances for better gear is only if you want to do raiding or running flashpoints. If your not into that you can buy gear from crafters.

    A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
    Herm Albright
    (1876 - 1944)

  • rygard49rygard49 Member UncommonPosts: 973

    Originally posted by shawn01

    I dont understand why people are so horny for story based games. If i wanted to watch a movie id turn on the TV. I play mmos to make my own story, not have it told to me.

    You don't play very many contemporary MMOs then. In nearly every major game that's come out over the past 10 years, with the exception of Eve, you quest and follow a series of stories that define your character. Any act you perform or achievement you make is put there by the game to give depth and story to you character.

    Now if instead you mean that you like to come up with your own personality and history... well there's nothing that ever stops you from doing that in any game. You don't need BioWares permission to roleplay or anything like that. You can make up whatever you want and I doubt anyone will care.

  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309

    Originally posted by darnapkin

    Not really been following this game at all, been playing rift most the time, and to be honest, i'm so tired of quest hubs, grinding rep, and doing instances over and over for better gear and plaqs, I'm tired of the "wow" based mmorpgs.

     

    does this follow the same thing, or is this a breath of fresh air?

     

     

    Thanks

    Yes it does, no it's not.

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

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