I just realized about the dip in wow subscription numbers.

Furor · May 2011

I just realized that Blizzard said they have not release cataclysm in china yet. So maybe when its released it will go back to 12 million subscribers?

Kyleran · May 2011

Blizzard may have had near 12M subs when Cata launched, but I'm bettting against it now. They only release their sub numbers during the good times, once the numbers drop they go quiet until the next big event pushes them back up.

Smart marketing of course.

onehunerdper · May 2011

Originally posted by Beerhead
WoW does not have 12 million users. It doesn't even have "11.4" like they claim. It's been proven over and over by multiple sources that Blizzard fabricates those numbers. I'd link proof of that if Blizzard didn't force the last blogger to shut his site down. RIP digital castration.

Cataclysm was an all out failure. The sooner people accept this the sooner we can all move on from this joke of a game called WoW and start playing real mmo's again. Well, when they start making real mmo's again =/

While I don't think WOW has any where near 12 million actual players, I mean really, dude, I'd show you proof if the big bad corporation hadn't forced every single person who ever wrote about their subscription numbers to shut down their internet blog... that's kinda weak sauce.

MeTed · May 2011

China just released Wotlk so it's very possible subs went up there offsetting the rest of the world. I wonder if China got the entire finished expansion all at once. Since people in China as the norm go to internet cafes and play by the hour do they do much end game content? If most people are primarily leveling they will chew through Cataclysm very quickly.

Jimmy562 · May 2011

Originally posted by MeTed
China just released Wotlk so it's very possible subs went up there offsetting the rest of the world. I wonder if China got the entire finished expansion all at once. Since people in China as the norm go to internet cafes and play by the hour do they do much end game content? If most people are primarily leveling they will chew through Cataclysm very quickly.

I thought Wotlk was released a while ago in china.

MeTed · May 2011

Originally posted by Jimmy562

Originally posted by MeTed

China just released Wotlk so it's very possible subs went up there offsetting the rest of the world. I wonder if China got the entire finished expansion all at once. Since people in China as the norm go to internet cafes and play by the hour do they do much end game content? If most people are primarily leveling they will chew through Cataclysm very quickly.

I thought Wotlk was released a while ago in china.

about 9 months so yes a while but still not that long.

SouzetsuAeri · May 2011

Originally posted by Beerhead
{mod edit}

{mod edit}

The dip in sub numbers is to be expected because after a month of Cataclysm I just felt incredibly burnt out from it and cancelled. I ended up buying the Rift CE (total waste btw) and once I hit 46 I just couldn't take it anymore.

Bought FFXIV for $20 because its different, beautiful, enjoyable and best of all its free.

darlok6666 · May 2011

Originally posted by iceissocold

Originally posted by Beerhead
WoW does not have 12 million users. It doesn't even have "11.4" like they claim. It's been proven over and over by multiple sources that Blizzard fabricates those numbers. I'd link proof of that if Blizzard didn't force the last blogger to shut his site down. RIP digital castration.

Cataclysm was an all out failure. The sooner people accept this the sooner we can all move on from this joke of a game called WoW and start playing real mmo's again. Well, when they start making real mmo's again =/

One can always expect some sort of trolling on here if its WoW related. Honestly if you don't like WoW so much then why do you insist on posting in forums that are about this game?

The dip in sub numbers is to be expected because after a month of Cataclysm I just felt incredibly burnt out from it and cancelled. I ended up buying the Rift CE (total waste btw) and once I hit 46 I just couldn't take it anymore.

Bought FFXIV for $20 because its different, beautiful, enjoyable and best of all its free.

Did the same. However I just can't get over the Japanese style stuff though. The poses of the elf equivilant, the emotes, the names...just too much for me.

As far as the thread subj...even though there is a dip in subs it's hadly anything to impact Blizz. Ohhh 600k subs canx,....oh well we still got 10 mill+ so we shouldn't need to server merge quite yet.

darlok6666 · May 2011

Originally posted by Furor
I just realized that Blizzard said they have not release cataclysm in china yet. So maybe when its released it will go back to 12 million subscribers?

Probobly, considering that the majority of their subs is in Asia. Some of the reports floating round the net claim that the U.S and EU combined only made up about 1/3 of the subs.

Roaki · May 2011

Originally posted by Beerhead
{mod edit}

This is very far from the truth.

Blizzard DID have 12 million active subscriptions at one point, more than half of these probably didn't have any expansions, but they still have 12 million active subscriptions.

Blizzard couldn't shut a website down becuase of someone posting the truth, in all seriousness Blizzard could potentially be sued by all its players for false advertising if they never actually had 12 million subsciptions.

They have released their new number 11,400,000, which again they have to do to avoid legal issues. They still have adverts saying "12million" on websites etc, but because they have released their true numbers, and those adverts are probably contracts that last a few months, they can't be sued over it.

I don't get haters who try and ruin anything big - Avatar/twilight/harry potter/lord of the rings/WoW/Halo/CoD are the worst things ever - have you ever played them - I don't have to - Yes you do.

Success is something that should be praised, not hated on, Blizzard has done more for the MMO market than any other game has, and will ever, do for it. Whether you think it's good or bad is your opinion, but I can gaurentee you there are 1,000,000 lovers of WoW to every 1 hater.

Rant over, sorry.

Azzataky · May 2011

Players of WoW, anyone is counting gold farmers, gold seller spamers, trial accounts, whatever else. ppl who just shouldnt be counted as an "active players" than we can say its real number. But we will never get that.

Ceridith · May 2011

Originally posted by Roaki

Originally posted by Beerhead

{mod edit}

This is very far from the truth.

Blizzard DID have 12 million active subscriptions at one point, more than half of these probably didn't have any expansions, but they still have 12 million active subscriptions.

Blizzard couldn't shut a website down becuase of someone posting the truth, in all seriousness Blizzard could potentially be sued by all its players for false advertising if they never actually had 12 million subsciptions.

They have released their new number 11,400,000, which again they have to do to avoid legal issues. They still have adverts saying "12million" on websites etc, but because they have released their true numbers, and those adverts are probably contracts that last a few months, they can't be sued over it.

I don't get haters who try and ruin anything big - Avatar/twilight/harry potter/lord of the rings/WoW/Halo/CoD are the worst things ever - have you ever played them - I don't have to - Yes you do.

Success is something that should be praised, not hated on, Blizzard has done more for the MMO market than any other game has, and will ever, do for it. Whether you think it's good or bad is your opinion, but I can gaurentee you there are 1,000,000 lovers of WoW to every 1 hater.

Rant over, sorry.

Fun Facts:

The Asian WoW accounts are pay per hour, and do not require the actual purchase of the game.
For an Asian WoW account to be considered "active" in the active subscriber count, they need only have played (paid) for one hour of gametime.
There is no game trial in Asia, so if you want to try WoW you just pay to play for a bit.

So, it's not 12 million people, it's 12 million accounts were counted as 'active within the last 30 days', even if said account was only just opened, used for an hour, then never touched again.

Calling out Blizzard spining their numbers isn't hating on Blizzard, it's calling them out on their marketing BS. Defending Blizzard against the truth on the other hand, is sheer fanboyism.

MMO.Maverick · May 2011

I've seen the blog site(s) and arguments that were used to calculate actual figures, and while those persons may have a point it's also still speculation and only circumstantial figures at best.

I question the 11.4 million subs as well especially looking at trend figures in various tools, but let's be reasonable about it: Blizzard still has an increase in revenues compared to former quarters, if the western subs would really go down in larger numbers than Blizzard reported, then I would have expected the revenues to go down, not up. Unless digital sales and services other than the subs have increased significantly, but that's even harder to calculate, what's the portion of the revenues that comes from subs, and what comes from other means.

What I'm puzzled more about is, why are they suddenly announcing subs when they're going down? Until now they only reported the peaks, never the inbetween sub figures.

Originally posted by Eliandal

'Multiple sources' can prove nothing. Only Blizzard has actual numbers. Google saves everything - you could post a link if you weren't to busy making up 'facts' for your 'argument'

I don't know if it's the same one that Beerhead referred to, but I know of one blogger who was quite accurate and detailed in his 'debunks' of MMO subs and other figures (he also did the Rift server population cap count and such), and that blogger abruptly closed his blog, with a final message that the reason was that he dug a little too deep and because of outside company pressure.

He did give some last handy hints how to go about stuff for people who're interested to dig for info and data the way he did.

darlok6666 · May 2011

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick
I've seen the blog site(s) and arguments that were used to calculate actual figures, and while those persons may have a point it's also still speculation and only circumstantial figures at best.

I question the 11.4 million subs as well especially looking at trend figures in various tools, but let's be reasonable about it: Blizzard still has an increase in revenues compared to former quarters, if the western subs would really go down in larger numbers than Blizzard reported, then I would have expected the revenues to go down, not up. Unless digital sales and services other than the subs have increased significantly, but that's even harder to calculate, what's the portion of the revenues that comes from subs, and what comes from other means.

What I'm puzzled more about is, why are they suddenly announcing subs when they're going down? Until now they only reported the peaks, never the inbetween sub figures.

Originally posted by Eliandal

'Multiple sources' can prove nothing. Only Blizzard has actual numbers. Google saves everything - you could post a link if you weren't to busy making up 'facts' for your 'argument'

I don't know if it's the same one that Beerhead referred to, but I know of one blogger who was quite accurate and detailed in his 'debunks' of MMO subs and other figures (he also did the Rift server population cap count and such), and that blogger abruptly closed his blog, with a final message that the reason was that he dug a little too deep and because of outside company pressure.

He did give some last handy hints how to go about stuff for people who're interested to dig for info and data the way he did.

Curious, what was the Rift numbers he came up with? Kinda itred of the whole "oh we over a million subs" which I call BS on as I say a large portion was people like myself who have and account, played a few betas, but never made it to the live stage even though I have 30 days on the books of playtime from the purchase.

Roaki · May 2011

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by Roaki

Originally posted by Beerhead

{mod edit}

This is very far from the truth.

Blizzard DID have 12 million active subscriptions at one point, more than half of these probably didn't have any expansions, but they still have 12 million active subscriptions.

Blizzard couldn't shut a website down becuase of someone posting the truth, in all seriousness Blizzard could potentially be sued by all its players for false advertising if they never actually had 12 million subsciptions.

They have released their new number 11,400,000, which again they have to do to avoid legal issues. They still have adverts saying "12million" on websites etc, but because they have released their true numbers, and those adverts are probably contracts that last a few months, they can't be sued over it.

I don't get haters who try and ruin anything big - Avatar/twilight/harry potter/lord of the rings/WoW/Halo/CoD are the worst things ever - have you ever played them - I don't have to - Yes you do.

Success is something that should be praised, not hated on, Blizzard has done more for the MMO market than any other game has, and will ever, do for it. Whether you think it's good or bad is your opinion, but I can gaurentee you there are 1,000,000 lovers of WoW to every 1 hater.

Rant over, sorry.

Fun Facts:

The Asian WoW accounts are pay per hour, and do not require the actual purchase of the game.

For an Asian WoW account to be considered "active" in the active subscriber count, they need only have played (paid) for one hour of gametime.

There is no game trial in Asia, so if you want to try WoW you just pay to play for a bit.

So, it's not 12 million people, it's 12 million accounts were counted as 'active within the last 30 days', even if said account was only just opened, used for an hour, then never touched again.

Calling out Blizzard spining their numbers isn't hating on Blizzard, it's calling them out on their marketing BS. Defending Blizzard against the truth on the other hand, is sheer fanboyism.

If you have paid for an hour worth of gametime for WoW, then that is a subscription, no?

So, even if all 12,000,000 had only paid for an hour for the entire month, then its still clearly 12,000,000 subscribers.

Therefore, people who bash Blizzard for "lying" are clearly either haters of WoW, or have seen wrong information.

Only half the players are from asian countires, so even if WoW had only 6,000,000 "real subscriptions" then it's still a massive acomplishment, and they are still they still have the biggest subscribed game in the world.

Why people like to bash WoW is beyond me, if you don't like something don't play it, get over it. Nobody wants to hear bad opinions on WoW unless they are valid, not crap like "WoW is crap cos it doesn't really have 12,000,000 subs" or "WoW is crap because so many people play it" or "WoW is crap because *insert MMO here* is better" or "WoW copied off *insert MMO here* so its a bad game" etc. If you don't like Cataclysm, then so be it, thats personal opinion. But most "haters" try and force their opinions down everyones throats, and speak them as if they are the god given truth.

Opinion is opinion.

Obviously on a little website like this it's fun to bash WoW as the worst thing since Bin Laden, but if it were an actual contest of haters vs lovers, there would be one clear winner.

And yes, I like the game, so I will defend it against crap like this.

WoW fanboyism FTW!

Maaku · May 2011

Originally posted by Elidien
There are several reasons for this:

1. No WOTLK in China. The game has got to be getting kinda stale for those players.

They do have WOTLK actually, just not CATA. And they are still playing the 'SHITZ' out of it. I believe Chinese players are actually a bit more hardcore than NA players. Or maybe it's just that the numbers of HC players is tripled ((China pop and all)). I joined this guild for 2 mins run by one of my employees girlfriend... I got yelled at in Chinese during my first raid. Was both scary and exciting. Damn those Sichuan women are spicy!

The dip in number is mostly due ((I believe, I might be wrong, it happens... Rarely but it does)) to the fact that WoW is getting old and CATA delivered ((As many say)) a nice quicky but a quicky still. Which means, once it's done, you're back where you started. WoW won't be able to rekindle the 'passion' until/unless they do something drastic like an expansion as big as the original game - or/and - an overall of the graphics and add in more dynamic events.

As for Rift, I really doubt it made a significant dent in WoW but it did win me over. Havent played WoW in over 4 years now and I attribute my love of Rift to that actually. People call it clone which I can see why but I prefer to call it 'Improvement'. It looks better/ the class system is more flexible/ invasions are great and dynamic and although it is again a 'kill Quest' gear grind, it is also a LOT more RP friendly and that for me is a winner. WoW was never ((Maybe is now)) an RP friendly game.

But Rift is most likely a bridge until SWOTOR comes out. We'll see then.

Dianic · May 2011

Originally posted by Maaku

Originally posted by Elidien

But Rift is most likely a bridge until SWOTOR comes out. We'll see then.

Unfortunately, I have to agree. I started playing Rift because I was bored with WoW & SWTOR isn't out yet. Once it hits, Rift will likely dry up.

onehunerdper · May 2011

Originally posted by Dianic

Originally posted by Maaku

Originally posted by Elidien

But Rift is most likely a bridge until SWOTOR comes out. We'll see then.

Unfortunately, I have to agree. I started playing Rift because I was bored with WoW & SWTOR isn't out yet. Once it hits, Rift will likely dry up.

I have to mostly agree, I don't think it will dry up, but it will go the way of past games, SWG, UO, AoC, CoX, WAR, I don't think it will vanish, but it will fade.

EQ2Thanos · May 2011

Originally posted by Roaki

Originally posted by Beerhead

{mod edit}

This is very far from the truth.

Blizzard DID have 12 million active subscriptions at one point, more than half of these probably didn't have any expansions, but they still have 12 million active subscriptions.

Blizzard couldn't shut a website down becuase of someone posting the truth, in all seriousness Blizzard could potentially be sued by all its players for false advertising if they never actually had 12 million subsciptions.

They have released their new number 11,400,000, which again they have to do to avoid legal issues. They still have adverts saying "12million" on websites etc, but because they have released their true numbers, and those adverts are probably contracts that last a few months, they can't be sued over it.

I don't get haters who try and ruin anything big - Avatar/twilight/harry potter/lord of the rings/WoW/Halo/CoD are the worst things ever - have you ever played them - I don't have to - Yes you do.

Success is something that should be praised, not hated on, Blizzard has done more for the MMO market than any other game has, and will ever, do for it. Whether you think it's good or bad is your opinion, but I can gaurentee you there are 1,000,000 lovers of WoW to every 1 hater.

Rant over, sorry.

You must be one of the team that count actual WoW active subscribers because if you can as you say 'guarantee' 1,000,000 lovers for every hater that means there are 11.4 haters of wow......

Amana · May 2011

This thread is getting a bit off topic. Going to lock it. If you wish to continue discussing subscription numbers, please continue in the thread here: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/315287/A-small-dip-in-WoW-subscriber-numbers.html

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I just realized about the dip in wow subscription numbers.

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I just realized about the dip in wow subscription numbers.

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV