Nothing revealed here really makes TOR more "sandbox" or more appealing to me...sorry marketing spimeisters..
1) Saying it's "massive" does not make it massive. Absent some concrete figures (x number of km's on a scale of y:z) we have nothing to really go on about the size of the area depicted in the game or how many out of the way places are presented, except the statements of people (Bioware employees) who stand to financialy benefit from selling as many copies of the game to as wide an audience as possible.
Pretty much every MMO advertises itself as having "massive" world(s) to explore and many out of the way features to find. The only way we'll be able to judge how well such a claim stacks up against reality is when the game becomes public and people start exploring it for themselves.
2) Unlocks, as the datacrons & codex have been described are not really (IMO) something that appeals to the "explorer" type player.... rather they appeal to the "achiever" type player. They are just another form of achievement...a way to get ticks on your character sheet. I'm not saying it's neccesarly a bad mechanic....nor knocking them for putting it in.... but I don't think it's a mechanic that primarly appears to the "explorer" type personality....it's more geared toward the "achiever" types.
From my perspective, the "explorer" type doesn't want to be rewarded with some sort "unlock" by clicking on a game object or walking into a particular area or killing creature X. Rather they want to be rewarded with knowldege by observation and experimentation. So rather then walking into an area and clicking on an object that presents them with an "unlock" screen that tells them all about the life-cycle of a sandworm. They'd (IMO) prefer to find, by discovery, the sand-worm spawning ground....and then find, by discovery, the sand-worm graveyard....and by OBSERVING what was going on in those 2 areas and how the creatures there interacted with thier environment DEDUCE (i.e. not have some text screen TELL them) how those creatures operate. Then they could say to themselves "Oh that's how those creatures operate"......even better bonus if such observation provided some clues as to practical methods for dealing with such creatures..... Something like "Oh sand-worms are particularly vulnerable to this type of toxin". Then the next bit of discovery would be to try to discover the most potent source of said toxin and obtain it. In my opinion, THAT is the sort of mechanic that would have real appeal to "explorer" types. YMMV.
Nothing revealed here really makes TOR more "sandbox" or more appealing to me...sorry marketing spimeisters..
Then again, there'll be other people to whom it does sound appealing or encouraging for going off the beaten path
1) Saying it's "massive" does not make it massive. Absent some concrete figures (x number of km's on a scale of y:z) we have nothing to really go on about the size of the area depicted in the game or how many out of the way places are presented, except the statements of people (Bioware employees) who stand to financialy benefit from selling as many copies of the game to as wide an audience as possible.
Pretty much every MMO advertises itself as having "massive" world(s) to explore and many out of the way features to find. The only way we'll be able to judge how well such a claim stacks up against reality is when the game becomes public and people start exploring it for themselves.
True, that applies to any MMO: we'll only know things for sure when the game is released. So if you've decided that everything representatives from MMO companies say is a lie or exaggeration, then there'll be no choice but to wait until an MMO releases, because only then you'll know things for sure.
However, if you take dev statements into account, available footage (eg the wide openness of a Hoth and Tatooine in the videos) and player reports, then this starts to paint a picture of wide open worlds and vast worlds that in size may not measure up to a Dark & Light (150,000 sq km) but certainly to a WoW or LotrO and from what it looks like maybe even surpass them.
2) Unlocks, as the datacrons & codex have been described are not really (IMO) something that appeals to the "explorer" type player.... rather they appeal to the "achiever" type player. They are just another form of achievement...a way to get ticks on your character sheet. I'm not saying it's neccesarly a bad mechanic....nor knocking them for putting it in.... but I don't think it's a mechanic that primarly appears to the "explorer" type personality....it's more geared toward the "achiever" types.
I agree, it's to make exploring more interesting for a larger group of people, not only pure explorers.
From my perspective, the "explorer" type doesn't want to be rewarded with some sort "unlock" by clicking on a game object or walking into a particular area or killing creature X. Rather they want to be rewarded with knowldege by observation and experimentation. So rather then walking into an area and clicking on an object that presents them with an "unlock" screen that tells them all about the life-cycle of a sandworm. They'd (IMO) prefer to find, by discovery, the sand-worm spawning ground....and then find, by discovery, the sand-worm graveyard....and by OBSERVING what was going on in those 2 areas and how the creatures there interacted with thier environment DEDUCE (i.e. not have some text screen TELL them) how those creatures operate. Then they could say to themselves "Oh that's how those creatures operate"......even better bonus if such observation provided some clues as to practical methods for dealing with such creatures..... Something like "Oh sand-worms are particularly vulnerable to this type of toxin". Then the next bit of discovery would be to try to discover the most potent source of said toxin and obtain it. In my opinion, THAT is the sort of mechanic that would have real appeal to "explorer" types. YMMV.
What you describe is nice but really not shown so far in MMO's, I'd even include the sandbox MMO's. Besides that, just like with the Codex, give it some time and also these things can be found on the internet, and if there's a bonus or significant reward attached to them, people will go for it and look stuff up on the internet.
The only way to make such things purely for explorers, is not to attach any form of reward or bonus to it, making the discovery itself the reward in itself.
But I don't see anything wrong with encouraging people with such rewards or little bonuses, most people are a mix of explorer, achiever and other types anyway.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I'm glad Mythic is helping BioWare with more than RvR.
Not trying to be snarky, but are the people saying this unfamiliar with Mass Effect or Dragon age, both of which had this? They even say as much as they used what they did in those games, as a point of reference in creating this.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
To me a sandbox is where people have a real reason to create a guild, Humans creating their own drama make the best stories; an enviroment where guilds can compete for something and against each other is better than a game of "lets get the best gear"
With reguard to the codex, it will be really neat, but you know it will lead down the path of "now what" after you got to a point that you no longer care to get anymore of them
Resources areas than can be taken control of, and that require a guild to take and hold is my idea of a sandbox and all the plotting and scheming/drama that it creates would add to the game; an incentive to explore is greatly imporved upon as a result
I agree. Organic game-play in an organic environment as opposed to static and predictable inorganic game-play in an inorganic environment.
Nothing revealed here really makes TOR more "sandbox" or more appealing to me...sorry marketing spimeisters..
Then again, there'll be other people to whom it does sound appealing or encouraging for going off the beaten path
1) Saying it's "massive" does not make it massive. Absent some concrete figures (x number of km's on a scale of y:z) we have nothing to really go on about the size of the area depicted in the game or how many out of the way places are presented, except the statements of people (Bioware employees) who stand to financialy benefit from selling as many copies of the game to as wide an audience as possible.
Pretty much every MMO advertises itself as having "massive" world(s) to explore and many out of the way features to find. The only way we'll be able to judge how well such a claim stacks up against reality is when the game becomes public and people start exploring it for themselves.
True, that applies to any MMO: we'll only know things for sure when the game is released. So if you've decided that everything representatives from MMO companies say is a lie or exaggeration, then there'll be no choice but to wait until an MMO releases, because only then you'll know things for sure.
However, if you take dev statements into account, available footage (eg the wide openness of a Hoth and Tatooine in the videos) and player reports, then this starts to paint a picture of wide open worlds and vast worlds that in size may not measure up to a Dark & Light (150,000 sq km) but certainly to a WoW or LotrO and from what it looks like maybe even surpass them.
2) Unlocks, as the datacrons & codex have been described are not really (IMO) something that appeals to the "explorer" type player.... rather they appeal to the "achiever" type player. They are just another form of achievement...a way to get ticks on your character sheet. I'm not saying it's neccesarly a bad mechanic....nor knocking them for putting it in.... but I don't think it's a mechanic that primarly appears to the "explorer" type personality....it's more geared toward the "achiever" types.
I agree, it's to make exploring more interesting for a larger group of people, not only pure explorers.
From my perspective, the "explorer" type doesn't want to be rewarded with some sort "unlock" by clicking on a game object or walking into a particular area or killing creature X. Rather they want to be rewarded with knowldege by observation and experimentation. So rather then walking into an area and clicking on an object that presents them with an "unlock" screen that tells them all about the life-cycle of a sandworm. They'd (IMO) prefer to find, by discovery, the sand-worm spawning ground....and then find, by discovery, the sand-worm graveyard....and by OBSERVING what was going on in those 2 areas and how the creatures there interacted with thier environment DEDUCE (i.e. not have some text screen TELL them) how those creatures operate. Then they could say to themselves "Oh that's how those creatures operate"......even better bonus if such observation provided some clues as to practical methods for dealing with such creatures..... Something like "Oh sand-worms are particularly vulnerable to this type of toxin". Then the next bit of discovery would be to try to discover the most potent source of said toxin and obtain it. In my opinion, THAT is the sort of mechanic that would have real appeal to "explorer" types. YMMV.
What you describe is nice but really not shown so far in MMO's, I'd even include the sandbox MMO's. Besides that, just like with the Codex, give it some time and also these things can be found on the internet, and if there's a bonus or significant reward attached to them, people will go for it and look stuff up on the internet.
The only way to make such things purely for explorers, is not to attach any form of reward or bonus to it, making the discovery itself the reward in itself.
But I don't see anything wrong with encouraging people with such rewards or little bonuses, most people are a mix of explorer, achiever and other types anyway.
I've seen a bit of the above in some MMO's I've played. There is really nothing from a technical or game engine standpoint that would be a roadblock.... simply a design choice on how the game presents (or witholds) information to the players.
Note, that of course if there is a benefit (reward) to having some information, people can and will google it on the internet to find out what they need to do....just as many people do with the optimal strategy to take down certain bosses in MMO's or solve in-game puzzles.
That's not an issue.... nor is it an issue that exploration has rewards tied to it. The real point is that the method they've chosen to deliver the information to the player runs counter to the exploration/discovery play style. Essentialy what they are doing is the equivalent of having a data sheet that details the exact method for defeating a raid boss pop-up on the screen when you encounter the boss. Takes the fun out of actualy figuring out the puzzle for those who are interested in doing it on thier own.
That's not an issue.... nor is it an issue that exploration has rewards tied to it. The real point is that the method they've chosen to deliver the information to the player runs counter to the exploration/discovery play style. Essentialy what they are doing is the equivalent of having a data sheet that details the exact method for defeating a raid boss pop-up on the screen when you encounter the boss. Takes the fun out of actualy figuring out the puzzle for those who are interested in doing it on thier own.
I guess we differ from opinion about this then, because I don't see how what they're doing should harm explorers or discoverers or take the fun away from them. But then again, I've found quite a lot to explore and discover in all kinds of MMO's over the years and enjoyed all different ways of exploring.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
This does nothing for me as an explorer type that prefers sandbox MMOs. Not "it's a nice bonus" but literally nothing. Why do I explore? To find short cuts, hidden passages, little known spawn points that can make me and my friends rich, unerrated terrain to build a fortress on, perfect sniping/hiding spots, etc. Finding some little do-hicky to tell me about the game lore? Bo-ring. Unless the information helps lead to a secret lair that requires a password, is a recipe to make a raid boss my ally, or reveals a hole in my enemy's ultimate fortress no larger than a womp rat, I don't really care about trinkets.
Could TOR be a great game? Of course it could. But if you absolutely cannot live without a sandboxy system with player-driven dramapoliticscontent over a dynamic capturable game world...you are 100% wasting your time. And you can quote this comment when launch comes.
It's obvious that it's not a sandbox game, anyone who expected or want Bioware to make a sandbox game are out of their mind, they've done several outstanding storydriven games, if they can implement that into an mmo and add elements from sandbox games, such as exploring, most of the mmo players would win.
When you have to (optional, I know) go to specific places to get a known amount of specific things, that pretty much exemplifies the Theme Park definition.
This doesn't match up at all with the spirit of Exploration. But it does mirror WoW's 'Explorer' achievements. Nothing to do with fun, adventure, or finding something no one else has found. Everything to do with mindlessly following a path for specific, universal goals that are known in advance.
That can be said for any sandbox game...
Seriously its post like this that piss me off the most. Had this been say Archage or some other crappy sandbox indy devlepoted game people would have been creaming their pants talking about how neat and innovative it was.
By the way guys, I wasn't drawing the conclusion that these exploration features make TOR in any fashion a "sandbox" game. My sandbox points were about distilling the base reason we want sandbox games in the first place: freedom. And so features that encourage us to veer off the beaten path in SWTOR imply that there is more freedom than what some people have expected thus far.
I also brought up the Codex as being more sigifnicant in this game than in other MMOs due to the story implications. It's hard to care about lore in an MMO's codex (such as the Tome of Knowledge) when story isn't important to the game in the first place. But you might care about those lore snippets when they are on characters you've interacted with as part of your story or locations you've adventured to. You might care about the character who has been part of your story for most of your journey who has just tragically died for example, and might want to find out more about him in your Codex. You might also be interested in finding out more about the villain. For example, what if you came upon a lore entry for Darth Malgus in some random place on Korriban you were exploring? Wouldn't you be more tempted to read it in SWTOR than you would in say Warhammer Online?
Also, it would be nice if BioWare actually added additional dialogue options when interacting with characters you know more about. Think Alpha Protocol's Dossier system. If you complete a full Dossier (Codex entry) on Darth Malgus and know everything there is to know about the guy it should give you an advantage when participating in dialogue with him.
i liken this to mass effect. for me sifting through non essential journal entries was tedious and i eventually ignored it. however if like in the witcher there is a journal entry that gives me a tactical advantage against a mob, well that's worth reading and acquiring. so i hope it is designed that way. i dont necessarily need the stat boosts and all that. I like exploring for exploring sake but would prefer obtaining some information that will help my character in some anxillary way such as a crafting component or something.
Also TOR will have open world PvP and they have hinted at RvR.
After so many letdowns, I have to say, really, don't bet on this. Even the few three-faction MMOs, with the best foundations for it, have utterly failed to pit those factions against eachother in any way that even remotely resembles RvR. I doubt even The Secret World will have it much more than AoC does. SWTOR, even less likely.. but sure, I'll believe it when I see it.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
My first ever MMO was SWG prior to the NGE, that game was awesome and in my opinion what i'd define as a sandbox MMORPG. I've tried what a lot of people would call a sandbox in the form of the pre CU NGE Emulators and i found myself totally bored, therefore i'm glad SW:TOR won't be what some class as a true sandbox. I'm looking forward to the game more and more and this new info on exploring datacrons has peaked my interest a bit more.
For the explorers: Are you finding the exploration-centric features slowly being revealed for Star Wars: The Old Republic sufficient enough to dispel some of your doubts about the game? What other exploration features would you like to see BioWare implement?
Yes i do think it's sufficient for a good start, everything could always need a few tweaks but unforunately those said tweaks are impossible as they vary from person to person. Other features hmm.. Not interested in a badge system or a rehash of the exploring stuff the NGE hit SWG with but i think (and i might get some backup here from old school rangers) a system where 1 certain class (for each side) has the potential within their advanced class system to scout, track, and thereby see piles of dung and footprints etc that make a trail to whichever creature they want to find, i think it would be nice to log in one day and say to myself "right, i've never seen this creature in game yet so i think i'll track it down and make a screenie" something along those lines would be nice and it may make a foundation for some other features requiring said skills from this class in the future, which in turn promote communication and interaction with others.
How can a game which has a rail shooter for space travel be called sandbox? As others have said you are going to need inbuilt game reasons to create a sandbox economy and exploration lifestyle. I don't see any evidence SWtOR has this.
I view SWtOR as a "open theme park' design mmorpg. it is not a sand box by any means but at I "think" that they won't lead you by the nose from point to point like say for example the last release for WoW did. Each previous one did as well but they got more over the top with each expansion release. My hope is that Bioware doesn't fall into the trap that Blizzard jumped into.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Sandbox is not just exploration; it is activities and gamepley that are apart from levelling and PvP. It can be linked to crafting which any MMO has but that’s as close as most come. It revolves around greater interactivity with the environment and your effect on it. I am being vague but that’s the nature of sandbox, it is not one set of ideas like levels and classes. Players getting together to repair a lift needed to cross a canyon or micromanaging an outpost themselves are examples of a sandbox approach.
Planet Exploration in SWtOR might make up for the rail shooter space flight, but it don't make it sandbox.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I love how he said most yern for a sandbox game... if so why did the sandbox games that released the past few years flop so hard? What i think people want (based off of sucess and failure of genres the past few years) Is a sandbox/ themepark game.. IE: a sandbox with a massive main story (ride) that leads the player from A to Z over the level range of the game with sandbox features like Guilds and Guild battles you would find in any sandbox game.
Comments
Just my own opinion.....
Nothing revealed here really makes TOR more "sandbox" or more appealing to me...sorry marketing spimeisters..
1) Saying it's "massive" does not make it massive. Absent some concrete figures (x number of km's on a scale of y:z) we have nothing to really go on about the size of the area depicted in the game or how many out of the way places are presented, except the statements of people (Bioware employees) who stand to financialy benefit from selling as many copies of the game to as wide an audience as possible.
Pretty much every MMO advertises itself as having "massive" world(s) to explore and many out of the way features to find. The only way we'll be able to judge how well such a claim stacks up against reality is when the game becomes public and people start exploring it for themselves.
2) Unlocks, as the datacrons & codex have been described are not really (IMO) something that appeals to the "explorer" type player.... rather they appeal to the "achiever" type player. They are just another form of achievement...a way to get ticks on your character sheet. I'm not saying it's neccesarly a bad mechanic....nor knocking them for putting it in.... but I don't think it's a mechanic that primarly appears to the "explorer" type personality....it's more geared toward the "achiever" types.
From my perspective, the "explorer" type doesn't want to be rewarded with some sort "unlock" by clicking on a game object or walking into a particular area or killing creature X. Rather they want to be rewarded with knowldege by observation and experimentation. So rather then walking into an area and clicking on an object that presents them with an "unlock" screen that tells them all about the life-cycle of a sandworm. They'd (IMO) prefer to find, by discovery, the sand-worm spawning ground....and then find, by discovery, the sand-worm graveyard....and by OBSERVING what was going on in those 2 areas and how the creatures there interacted with thier environment DEDUCE (i.e. not have some text screen TELL them) how those creatures operate. Then they could say to themselves "Oh that's how those creatures operate"......even better bonus if such observation provided some clues as to practical methods for dealing with such creatures..... Something like "Oh sand-worms are particularly vulnerable to this type of toxin". Then the next bit of discovery would be to try to discover the most potent source of said toxin and obtain it. In my opinion, THAT is the sort of mechanic that would have real appeal to "explorer" types. YMMV.
This.
WAR's tome was the most under-rated great part of that game. It's good they're incorporating it into ToR.
What you describe is nice but really not shown so far in MMO's, I'd even include the sandbox MMO's. Besides that, just like with the Codex, give it some time and also these things can be found on the internet, and if there's a bonus or significant reward attached to them, people will go for it and look stuff up on the internet.
The only way to make such things purely for explorers, is not to attach any form of reward or bonus to it, making the discovery itself the reward in itself.
But I don't see anything wrong with encouraging people with such rewards or little bonuses, most people are a mix of explorer, achiever and other types anyway.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Not trying to be snarky, but are the people saying this unfamiliar with Mass Effect or Dragon age, both of which had this? They even say as much as they used what they did in those games, as a point of reference in creating this.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
i do explore for a significant advantage, not for story snippets.
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
I agree. Organic game-play in an organic environment as opposed to static and predictable inorganic game-play in an inorganic environment.
I've seen a bit of the above in some MMO's I've played. There is really nothing from a technical or game engine standpoint that would be a roadblock.... simply a design choice on how the game presents (or witholds) information to the players.
Note, that of course if there is a benefit (reward) to having some information, people can and will google it on the internet to find out what they need to do....just as many people do with the optimal strategy to take down certain bosses in MMO's or solve in-game puzzles.
That's not an issue.... nor is it an issue that exploration has rewards tied to it. The real point is that the method they've chosen to deliver the information to the player runs counter to the exploration/discovery play style. Essentialy what they are doing is the equivalent of having a data sheet that details the exact method for defeating a raid boss pop-up on the screen when you encounter the boss. Takes the fun out of actualy figuring out the puzzle for those who are interested in doing it on thier own.
I guess we differ from opinion about this then, because I don't see how what they're doing should harm explorers or discoverers or take the fun away from them. But then again, I've found quite a lot to explore and discover in all kinds of MMO's over the years and enjoyed all different ways of exploring.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
This does nothing for me as an explorer type that prefers sandbox MMOs. Not "it's a nice bonus" but literally nothing. Why do I explore? To find short cuts, hidden passages, little known spawn points that can make me and my friends rich, unerrated terrain to build a fortress on, perfect sniping/hiding spots, etc. Finding some little do-hicky to tell me about the game lore? Bo-ring. Unless the information helps lead to a secret lair that requires a password, is a recipe to make a raid boss my ally, or reveals a hole in my enemy's ultimate fortress no larger than a womp rat, I don't really care about trinkets.
It's obvious that it's not a sandbox game, anyone who expected or want Bioware to make a sandbox game are out of their mind, they've done several outstanding storydriven games, if they can implement that into an mmo and add elements from sandbox games, such as exploring, most of the mmo players would win.
Did you even play any of Bioware's previous games?
That can be said for any sandbox game...
Seriously its post like this that piss me off the most. Had this been say Archage or some other crappy sandbox indy devlepoted game people would have been creaming their pants talking about how neat and innovative it was.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
By the way guys, I wasn't drawing the conclusion that these exploration features make TOR in any fashion a "sandbox" game. My sandbox points were about distilling the base reason we want sandbox games in the first place: freedom. And so features that encourage us to veer off the beaten path in SWTOR imply that there is more freedom than what some people have expected thus far.
I also brought up the Codex as being more sigifnicant in this game than in other MMOs due to the story implications. It's hard to care about lore in an MMO's codex (such as the Tome of Knowledge) when story isn't important to the game in the first place. But you might care about those lore snippets when they are on characters you've interacted with as part of your story or locations you've adventured to. You might care about the character who has been part of your story for most of your journey who has just tragically died for example, and might want to find out more about him in your Codex. You might also be interested in finding out more about the villain. For example, what if you came upon a lore entry for Darth Malgus in some random place on Korriban you were exploring? Wouldn't you be more tempted to read it in SWTOR than you would in say Warhammer Online?
Also, it would be nice if BioWare actually added additional dialogue options when interacting with characters you know more about. Think Alpha Protocol's Dossier system. If you complete a full Dossier (Codex entry) on Darth Malgus and know everything there is to know about the guy it should give you an advantage when participating in dialogue with him.
After so many letdowns, I have to say, really, don't bet on this. Even the few three-faction MMOs, with the best foundations for it, have utterly failed to pit those factions against eachother in any way that even remotely resembles RvR. I doubt even The Secret World will have it much more than AoC does. SWTOR, even less likely.. but sure, I'll believe it when I see it.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
SWToR menus and colors look a lot like SWG.
Hmm...
My first ever MMO was SWG prior to the NGE, that game was awesome and in my opinion what i'd define as a sandbox MMORPG. I've tried what a lot of people would call a sandbox in the form of the pre CU NGE Emulators and i found myself totally bored, therefore i'm glad SW:TOR won't be what some class as a true sandbox. I'm looking forward to the game more and more and this new info on exploring datacrons has peaked my interest a bit more.
For the explorers: Are you finding the exploration-centric features slowly being revealed for Star Wars: The Old Republic sufficient enough to dispel some of your doubts about the game? What other exploration features would you like to see BioWare implement?
Yes i do think it's sufficient for a good start, everything could always need a few tweaks but unforunately those said tweaks are impossible as they vary from person to person. Other features hmm.. Not interested in a badge system or a rehash of the exploring stuff the NGE hit SWG with but i think (and i might get some backup here from old school rangers) a system where 1 certain class (for each side) has the potential within their advanced class system to scout, track, and thereby see piles of dung and footprints etc that make a trail to whichever creature they want to find, i think it would be nice to log in one day and say to myself "right, i've never seen this creature in game yet so i think i'll track it down and make a screenie" something along those lines would be nice and it may make a foundation for some other features requiring said skills from this class in the future, which in turn promote communication and interaction with others.
How can a game which has a rail shooter for space travel be called sandbox? As others have said you are going to need inbuilt game reasons to create a sandbox economy and exploration lifestyle. I don't see any evidence SWtOR has this.
I view SWtOR as a "open theme park' design mmorpg. it is not a sand box by any means but at I "think" that they won't lead you by the nose from point to point like say for example the last release for WoW did. Each previous one did as well but they got more over the top with each expansion release. My hope is that Bioware doesn't fall into the trap that Blizzard jumped into.
Care to elaborate?
I and others did a lot of exploring in EQ and had some great fun with it, and EQ certainly isn't a sandbox MMO.
In my opinion you only need a large, open world with enough interesting sights and variety of scenery in it for fun exploring.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Sandbox is not just exploration; it is activities and gamepley that are apart from levelling and PvP. It can be linked to crafting which any MMO has but that’s as close as most come. It revolves around greater interactivity with the environment and your effect on it. I am being vague but that’s the nature of sandbox, it is not one set of ideas like levels and classes. Players getting together to repair a lift needed to cross a canyon or micromanaging an outpost themselves are examples of a sandbox approach.
Planet Exploration in SWtOR might make up for the rail shooter space flight, but it don't make it sandbox.
Ah ok, I thought you were saying that exploration was purely a sandbox thing which it isn't.
But I agree, having a world and features that encourage exploring, doesn't make that game a sandbox game.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I love how he said most yern for a sandbox game... if so why did the sandbox games that released the past few years flop so hard? What i think people want (based off of sucess and failure of genres the past few years) Is a sandbox/ themepark game.. IE: a sandbox with a massive main story (ride) that leads the player from A to Z over the level range of the game with sandbox features like Guilds and Guild battles you would find in any sandbox game.