The game is only a couple months old. What they are doing is fine. A year from now we will see the fruits of FIRST laying the groundwork for a great game to be built on. The reason why most mmo's have failed after launch in the past few years has been the developers didnt lay the foundation first in which to build from. Trion did. Rift is just fine. When this game has years of updates and fixes and content added this will be still be a strong selling, content rich and community driven game.
Are they doing fine? The thing is though that you should keep in mind that the typical Rift player left WoW for something different which Rift falls short on. With some of the highly hyped MMOs coming out this year and early next year I think Rift is very much so not doing fine. Sure you have players now but that might be largely due to they just are too tired of WoW, AoC, or what other MMO is out there and just killing time while waiting for an MMO release. If there is already a lot of discussion which is evident here and on various other websites to include their official forum of boredom, what needs to be fixed to save Rift, lack of content, talk of server merges then the state of the game is very poor and will only worsen in the future if Trion doesn't hurry up and do something to hold hteir customers to the game.
Other MMOs had that foundation, take AoC for example...awesome foundation with a lot of intresting concepts.
Honestly, this game just needs more engaging content. Even at end game the game gets horribly repetative. Nearly everyone Qs for Battle of Port Scion, or runs tier dungeons (which are identical to the normal dungeons, just with the monsters made harder).
Short-term, they could try merging servers, but the pops aren't hurting too much on the whole. I don't see many servers with 'low' populations, and the few that do get that low usually don't stay there for long. Merging servers, may have the effect of just adding Q times to a few of the more popular servers, and thus turning more players away, instead of keeping the ones they have. It's a tricky boat to be in, but as was mentioned earlier, Rift propably won't be going anywhere for a while. If they added more engaging content, I think the players that have left would return fairly quickly, as Rift doesn't really have any competition atm. There just aren't that many good MMOs with a healthy player base atm. However, with SWToR and GW2 around the corner, that is likely to change.
What do you mean by more engaging content? Also what an example of a current game that has more enganging content than RIft? I thought that the invasion system was pretty engaging or the new sliver system or the events they have were.
I can name a few games with engaging endgame content. Mostly due to their having an alternate advancement system or story driven content. EQ2, FFXI, Guild Wars. I'm sure there are a few others, but these are the ones at the top of my head that go beyond the tired reputation/dungeon grind of current MMO endgame.
All of t he quests i have done in Rift have been story/area driven. Some of them actually say story to let you know its important and they offer blue items then lead you to the area's dungeon. Alot of the quests also have interactive things that happen when you complete the quests giving you history/lore about what you are doing. Also when you port to an area the loading screen lets you know your progress in that area. I agree that there are fetch quests but I mean that would happen in a normal RPG as well. If you mean cut-scenes then I would agree I would like to see that but its now a deal breaker.
WoW is now going to a smaller content more frequent model.
WoW is stealing things from Rift now for a change.
Rift is doing fine.
Oh and 1.2 is looking to be a massive success.
And already got my mount from the random keys I gave away on another website.
So that means because of me at least 3 players bought the game and I get a cool mount.
Wonder how many others are getting that loot too?
Haha how is 1.2 a massive success?
Rift is doing OK. They had more people buy the game than expected, but probably a lower retention. there are also a lot of people who bought 6 month plans and regret it. They may be active subscribers but they arent actually active. The SoE downtime is probably helping Rift a bit too. Overall Im sure Trion is happy with the results so far.
However the endgame is a huge issue. It needs to not be WoW. At least half of Rift's playerbase are former WoW players, but Rift's endgame is exremely similar to WoW's, and the stale endgame is why people left WoW anyway.
They will do fine over the summer and into the fall, but yes, they need to change or else GW2 and SW:TOR will crush them. especially since SW:TOR actually looks a lot deeper than it was first thought to be.
WoW is now going to a smaller content more frequent model.
WoW is stealing things from Rift now for a change.
Rift is doing fine.
Oh and 1.2 is looking to be a massive success.
And already got my mount from the random keys I gave away on another website.
So that means because of me at least 3 players bought the game and I get a cool mount.
Wonder how many others are getting that loot too?
Haha how is 1.2 a massive success?
Rift is doing OK. They had more people buy the game than expected, but probably a lower retention. there are also a lot of people who bought 6 month plans and regret it. They may be active subscribers but they arent actually active. The SoE downtime is probably helping Rift a bit too. Overall Im sure Trion is happy with the results so far.
However the endgame is a huge issue. It needs to not be WoW. At least half of Rift's playerbase are former WoW players, but Rift's endgame is exremely similar to WoW's, and the stale endgame is why people left WoW anyway.
They will do fine over the summer and into the fall, but yes, they need to change or else GW2 and SW:TOR will crush them. especially since SW:TOR actually looks a lot deeper than it was first thought to be.
Change to what exactly? And SWTOR and GW2 are not out yet. I wouldn't count your chickens just yet.
WoW is now going to a smaller content more frequent model.
WoW is stealing things from Rift now for a change.
Rift is doing fine.
Oh and 1.2 is looking to be a massive success.
And already got my mount from the random keys I gave away on another website.
So that means because of me at least 3 players bought the game and I get a cool mount.
Wonder how many others are getting that loot too?
Haha how is 1.2 a massive success?
Rift is doing OK. They had more people buy the game than expected, but probably a lower retention. there are also a lot of people who bought 6 month plans and regret it. They may be active subscribers but they arent actually active. The SoE downtime is probably helping Rift a bit too. Overall Im sure Trion is happy with the results so far.
However the endgame is a huge issue. It needs to not be WoW. At least half of Rift's playerbase are former WoW players, but Rift's endgame is exremely similar to WoW's, and the stale endgame is why people left WoW anyway.
They will do fine over the summer and into the fall, but yes, they need to change or else GW2 and SW:TOR will crush them. especially since SW:TOR actually looks a lot deeper than it was first thought to be.
Change to what exactly? And SWTOR and GW2 are not out yet. I wouldn't count your chickens just yet.
I agree no game out right now will lose permenate buisness to GW2 because it free to play. But with TOR who really knows? I think there is room for all of them.
WoW is now going to a smaller content more frequent model.
WoW is stealing things from Rift now for a change.
Rift is doing fine.
Oh and 1.2 is looking to be a massive success.
And already got my mount from the random keys I gave away on another website.
So that means because of me at least 3 players bought the game and I get a cool mount.
Wonder how many others are getting that loot too?
Ooooo.....so just because WoW lost subs your automatically assuming that people went to Rift? Not htat they took an MMO break or playing GW now for HoM goodies or EVE or WAR or DDO or AoC or a number of other reasons?
People don't get bored to end game really and many will see what end game is like which entails purchasing the game, so I don't see any validity in this arguement.
Also depends on how you view fine, if Rift is already having issues with population, end-game content, crafting, lvling at this soon after release then I don't see that as "fine" considering what the competition will be by the end of the year.
WoW is now going to a smaller content more frequent model.
WoW is stealing things from Rift now for a change.
Rift is doing fine.
Oh and 1.2 is looking to be a massive success.
And already got my mount from the random keys I gave away on another website.
So that means because of me at least 3 players bought the game and I get a cool mount.
Wonder how many others are getting that loot too?
Haha how is 1.2 a massive success?
Rift is doing OK. They had more people buy the game than expected, but probably a lower retention. there are also a lot of people who bought 6 month plans and regret it. They may be active subscribers but they arent actually active. The SoE downtime is probably helping Rift a bit too. Overall Im sure Trion is happy with the results so far.
However the endgame is a huge issue. It needs to not be WoW. At least half of Rift's playerbase are former WoW players, but Rift's endgame is exremely similar to WoW's, and the stale endgame is why people left WoW anyway.
They will do fine over the summer and into the fall, but yes, they need to change or else GW2 and SW:TOR will crush them. especially since SW:TOR actually looks a lot deeper than it was first thought to be.
Change to what exactly? And SWTOR and GW2 are not out yet. I wouldn't count your chickens just yet.
I agree no game out right now will lose permenate buisness to GW2 because it free to play. But with TOR who really knows? I think there is room for all of them.
Really? Various people on youtube, GW Forums, guild forums will wanna chat with ya. If GW2 is providing enough entertainment no one is gonna waste 15 bucks on an MMO that they never play.
Change to what exactly? And SWTOR and GW2 are not out yet. I wouldn't count your chickens just yet.
Change to a more meaningful endgame. It needs to be more than a geargrind based on daily repetition of content.
WoW has 11 million + subs based just on that. So whether you like it or not, it seems to be a popular formula that has worked for MMOs for many years. Progression Guilds are huge. While I would like to see more endgame content that had meaning to it, no MMO will be able to accomplish this. Not GW2. Not SWTOR.
Really? Various people on youtube, GW Forums, guild forums will wanna chat with ya. If GW2 is providing enough entertainment no one is gonna waste 15 bucks on an MMO that they never play.
There's a market for people that don't want to/can't spend 15 bucks on a sub game. GW2 will definitely appeal to those people.
People whom are already spending money on a sub game, generally don't have a problem with it.
Those people will buy GW2 and try it out and will go to another game (if/when) they get bored.
For those people they won't be wasting their 15 bucks.
Ooooo.....so just because WoW lost subs your automatically assuming that people went to Rift? Not htat they took an MMO break or playing GW now for HoM goodies or EVE or WAR or DDO or AoC or a number of other reasons?
People don't get bored to end game really and many will see what end game is like which entails purchasing the game, so I don't see any validity in this arguement.
Also depends on how you view fine, if Rift is already having issues with population, end-game content, crafting, lvling at this soon after release then I don't see that as "fine" considering what the competition will be by the end of the year.
Meaningful endgame, I think could mean a lot of things without the gear grind, politics would work well, or world pvp for territory, or simple player economies.
Change to what exactly? And SWTOR and GW2 are not out yet. I wouldn't count your chickens just yet.
Change to a more meaningful endgame. It needs to be more than a geargrind based on daily repetition of content.
Why do people always say that? The gear in Rift is an ends to a means...you need the better gear to be able to handle the challenges of endgame. The fun is the actual grouping and taking on challenges. This should promote comradery, friendships and accplishment. If you look at it as a geargrind your doing something wrong after all endgame is what you make of it.
Meaningful endgame, I think could mean a lot of things without the gear grind, politics would work well, or world pvp for territory, or simple player economies.
I completely agree with you on world PVP for territory. But that has its own issues. Namely class balance.
Politics would be very interesting and I myself can't stand the rep grind that Rift has implemented and would love to see a new system on that front.
Player Economies? Not sure what you mean on that one.
It would be secondary to the other two, but meaningful profs. with some gear fatigue and player repairs for example.
On the official forums someone brought up a workorder board in the suggestion thread. Basically people could request items to be made and orders could be reserved and filled by crafters.
I really thought it was a neat idea. Is that the type of stuff you're talking about?
Meaningful endgame, I think could mean a lot of things without the gear grind, politics would work well, or world pvp for territory, or simple player economies.
Games have tried pvp for terriory (WAR), not sure what you mean by economics since endgame you wouldn't need to buy anything. I define endgame as being at a level where you can take on challenges no one else can. Its only fair that you be rewarded with loots. Its now a grind if you have fun doing it and it also doesn't make it not meaningful just because you don't like it. Acheivment, teamwork, and reward is are staples of endgame and it always will. Beside the things you describe are for a PVP based game which Rift is not.
Didn't know the game was dying. I might have missed the note...
Maybe you wanted to say: what would keep this game as one of the major MMO with GW2 and TOR going live in the next year?
First let's start with some basics. Trion is fixing and improving the game faster than any other MMO studio out there. As Blizzard and a few other they are using Agile methodology. However it seems they went an extra step applying it to releases and roll out game fixes and major patches faster than we ever saw. Someday it might fire back with a huge down time, still it's refreshing to see their take on that matter. It's fine you don't like the unplanned day/night reboot but you'll get used to it, don't worry.
Then, don't forget while the game is still very young the core is really, and I mark my words, really well done. There are many MMO studio out there (and developers) that would sell their soul (or close) to trade their game for this one.
Now of all the 6 entries mentioned we can say there's nothing really specific to Rift. In fact, mostly any MMO out there would benefits from them. But maybe raising the level cap as not everyone is fond of seeing all their items grind going to the rubbish when the level cap is raised.
About being bored by the game with the lack of content, can I say that while Wow has much more content than this game, due to its age, most players are bored to regring the exact same content again and again. I hear colleagues playing Wow and never hear them saying how cool is that instance or new content. Their conversations is more about: I'm working on that [insert instance/faction name] to complete my [insert set name]. The other thing you're going to hear is that people invested so much time in Wow that they don't see themselves moving to a new MMO, whatever awesome sauce it is. (BTW Blizzard knows that pretty well)
What I see is Rift is doing pretty well for a new MMO. It did lost thousand of subs after launch, but that's nothing new in the post Wow era. People are consuming new MMO like fast food and when they are finished they get back to their drug: read WoW.
If you read between the lines you'll see that contrary to what happened with any other AAA MMO like AoC and War, Blizzard noticed the newcomer and the bronthosaurus started moving. They are going to more often smaller content updates.
The only success recipe I have for the game is keep doing like you actually do: listening to the player base, communicating with them and adding & polishing content. For the next 12 months I expect Trion delivering more content and adding more system game play in their MMO than any other MMO has done before. Will that be enought for you? I doubt it. But I'm going on a limb and say that it will for many players and the player base will keep growing steadily from now.
I hate to burst your bubble, but thinking Rift won't "survive" is poor reasoning.
Considering the server populations are always at Medium or High during normal hours, the population seems to be staying pretty solid.
There are plenty of games which have fallen out of vogue a long time ago which are still surviving. Everquest One was a great game but it's population has eroded from what it once was by far, yet it still survives. Vanguard was considered by many the worst mmo launch in history, and it's still going.
I contend that if you don't think Rift will "survive", you don't know the genre as well as you think you do.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Gear fatigue with player repairs makes profs more worthwhile. If you could include some aesthetic improvements along with stats (which I never really understood, if I hit someone with a baseball bat or a sword of the twelth moon it still hurts) it could improve player interraction.
As for end game grind, yes, if you like something it is not a problem, I think a lot of ppl dislike it though. Each to their own (obviously I dislike it)
I agree no game out right now will lose permenate buisness to GW2 because it free to play. But with TOR who really knows? I think there is room for all of them.
How do you figure?
Most people only have time for one MMO, and i'll be dropping my sub for whatever MMO I'm playing when GW2 drops.
If GW2 provide a lot of content and entertainment value of course it will take subs away from existing MMO's, F2P has nothing to do with - people wont keep subing to their previous MMO just because 'they can'.
I hate to burst your bubble, but thinking Rift won't "survive" is poor reasoning.
Considering the server populations are always at Medium or High during normal hours, the population seems to be staying pretty solid.
There are plenty of games which have fallen out of vogue a long time ago which are still surviving. Everquest One was a great game but it's population has eroded from what it once was by far, yet it still survives. Vanguard was considered by many the worst mmo launch in history, and it's still going.
I contend that if you don't think Rift will "survive", you don't know the genre as well as you think you do.
Medium or high tags mean nothing. I was on a medium server and there was nobody around... during peak times there was like 6 level 50's in total on my side, and 9 on the other. Medium pop? Hardly, more like dead.
But yeah, rift will survive... just like AOC, WAR and VG 'survived'.
Comments
Are they doing fine? The thing is though that you should keep in mind that the typical Rift player left WoW for something different which Rift falls short on. With some of the highly hyped MMOs coming out this year and early next year I think Rift is very much so not doing fine. Sure you have players now but that might be largely due to they just are too tired of WoW, AoC, or what other MMO is out there and just killing time while waiting for an MMO release. If there is already a lot of discussion which is evident here and on various other websites to include their official forum of boredom, what needs to be fixed to save Rift, lack of content, talk of server merges then the state of the game is very poor and will only worsen in the future if Trion doesn't hurry up and do something to hold hteir customers to the game.
Other MMOs had that foundation, take AoC for example...awesome foundation with a lot of intresting concepts.
YES
WoW lost 600,000 subs end of March.
WoW is now going to a smaller content more frequent model.
WoW is stealing things from Rift now for a change.
Rift is doing fine.
Oh and 1.2 is looking to be a massive success.
And already got my mount from the random keys I gave away on another website.
So that means because of me at least 3 players bought the game and I get a cool mount.
Wonder how many others are getting that loot too?
All of t he quests i have done in Rift have been story/area driven. Some of them actually say story to let you know its important and they offer blue items then lead you to the area's dungeon. Alot of the quests also have interactive things that happen when you complete the quests giving you history/lore about what you are doing. Also when you port to an area the loading screen lets you know your progress in that area. I agree that there are fetch quests but I mean that would happen in a normal RPG as well. If you mean cut-scenes then I would agree I would like to see that but its now a deal breaker.
Haha how is 1.2 a massive success?
Rift is doing OK. They had more people buy the game than expected, but probably a lower retention. there are also a lot of people who bought 6 month plans and regret it. They may be active subscribers but they arent actually active. The SoE downtime is probably helping Rift a bit too. Overall Im sure Trion is happy with the results so far.
However the endgame is a huge issue. It needs to not be WoW. At least half of Rift's playerbase are former WoW players, but Rift's endgame is exremely similar to WoW's, and the stale endgame is why people left WoW anyway.
They will do fine over the summer and into the fall, but yes, they need to change or else GW2 and SW:TOR will crush them. especially since SW:TOR actually looks a lot deeper than it was first thought to be.
Change to what exactly? And SWTOR and GW2 are not out yet. I wouldn't count your chickens just yet.
I agree no game out right now will lose permenate buisness to GW2 because it free to play. But with TOR who really knows? I think there is room for all of them.
Ooooo.....so just because WoW lost subs your automatically assuming that people went to Rift? Not htat they took an MMO break or playing GW now for HoM goodies or EVE or WAR or DDO or AoC or a number of other reasons?
People don't get bored to end game really and many will see what end game is like which entails purchasing the game, so I don't see any validity in this arguement.
Also depends on how you view fine, if Rift is already having issues with population, end-game content, crafting, lvling at this soon after release then I don't see that as "fine" considering what the competition will be by the end of the year.
Really? Various people on youtube, GW Forums, guild forums will wanna chat with ya. If GW2 is providing enough entertainment no one is gonna waste 15 bucks on an MMO that they never play.
Change to a more meaningful endgame. It needs to be more than a geargrind based on daily repetition of content.
WoW has 11 million + subs based just on that. So whether you like it or not, it seems to be a popular formula that has worked for MMOs for many years. Progression Guilds are huge. While I would like to see more endgame content that had meaning to it, no MMO will be able to accomplish this. Not GW2. Not SWTOR.
What exactly would be meaningful endgame for you?
There's a market for people that don't want to/can't spend 15 bucks on a sub game. GW2 will definitely appeal to those people.
People whom are already spending money on a sub game, generally don't have a problem with it.
Those people will buy GW2 and try it out and will go to another game (if/when) they get bored.
For those people they won't be wasting their 15 bucks.
[Mod Edit]
http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/05/10/activision-blizzard-rift-players-will-come-back-to-wow/
And what's going to be the competition at the end of the year?
GW2 and SWTOR is slated for early 2012 at the earliest. SWTOR 'might' come out at the end of this year - but that's unknown right now.
Watchawawawa
Meaningful endgame, I think could mean a lot of things without the gear grind, politics would work well, or world pvp for territory, or simple player economies.
Chins
Why do people always say that? The gear in Rift is an ends to a means...you need the better gear to be able to handle the challenges of endgame. The fun is the actual grouping and taking on challenges. This should promote comradery, friendships and accplishment. If you look at it as a geargrind your doing something wrong after all endgame is what you make of it.
^it's a means to an end
Chins
I completely agree with you on world PVP for territory. But that has its own issues. Namely class balance.
Politics would be very interesting and I myself can't stand the rep grind that Rift has implemented and would love to see a new system on that front.
Player Economies? Not sure what you mean on that one.
It would be secondary to the other two, but meaningful profs. with some gear fatigue and player repairs for example.
Chins
On the official forums someone brought up a workorder board in the suggestion thread. Basically people could request items to be made and orders could be reserved and filled by crafters.
I really thought it was a neat idea. Is that the type of stuff you're talking about?
Games have tried pvp for terriory (WAR), not sure what you mean by economics since endgame you wouldn't need to buy anything. I define endgame as being at a level where you can take on challenges no one else can. Its only fair that you be rewarded with loots. Its now a grind if you have fun doing it and it also doesn't make it not meaningful just because you don't like it. Acheivment, teamwork, and reward is are staples of endgame and it always will. Beside the things you describe are for a PVP based game which Rift is not.
Didn't know the game was dying. I might have missed the note...
Maybe you wanted to say: what would keep this game as one of the major MMO with GW2 and TOR going live in the next year?
First let's start with some basics. Trion is fixing and improving the game faster than any other MMO studio out there. As Blizzard and a few other they are using Agile methodology. However it seems they went an extra step applying it to releases and roll out game fixes and major patches faster than we ever saw. Someday it might fire back with a huge down time, still it's refreshing to see their take on that matter. It's fine you don't like the unplanned day/night reboot but you'll get used to it, don't worry.
Then, don't forget while the game is still very young the core is really, and I mark my words, really well done. There are many MMO studio out there (and developers) that would sell their soul (or close) to trade their game for this one.
Now of all the 6 entries mentioned we can say there's nothing really specific to Rift. In fact, mostly any MMO out there would benefits from them. But maybe raising the level cap as not everyone is fond of seeing all their items grind going to the rubbish when the level cap is raised.
About being bored by the game with the lack of content, can I say that while Wow has much more content than this game, due to its age, most players are bored to regring the exact same content again and again. I hear colleagues playing Wow and never hear them saying how cool is that instance or new content. Their conversations is more about: I'm working on that [insert instance/faction name] to complete my [insert set name]. The other thing you're going to hear is that people invested so much time in Wow that they don't see themselves moving to a new MMO, whatever awesome sauce it is. (BTW Blizzard knows that pretty well)
What I see is Rift is doing pretty well for a new MMO. It did lost thousand of subs after launch, but that's nothing new in the post Wow era. People are consuming new MMO like fast food and when they are finished they get back to their drug: read WoW.
If you read between the lines you'll see that contrary to what happened with any other AAA MMO like AoC and War, Blizzard noticed the newcomer and the bronthosaurus started moving. They are going to more often smaller content updates.
The only success recipe I have for the game is keep doing like you actually do: listening to the player base, communicating with them and adding & polishing content. For the next 12 months I expect Trion delivering more content and adding more system game play in their MMO than any other MMO has done before. Will that be enought for you? I doubt it. But I'm going on a limb and say that it will for many players and the player base will keep growing steadily from now.
I hate to burst your bubble, but thinking Rift won't "survive" is poor reasoning.
Considering the server populations are always at Medium or High during normal hours, the population seems to be staying pretty solid.
There are plenty of games which have fallen out of vogue a long time ago which are still surviving. Everquest One was a great game but it's population has eroded from what it once was by far, yet it still survives. Vanguard was considered by many the worst mmo launch in history, and it's still going.
I contend that if you don't think Rift will "survive", you don't know the genre as well as you think you do.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Watch and Lath,
Single reply seemed simpler.
Gear fatigue with player repairs makes profs more worthwhile. If you could include some aesthetic improvements along with stats (which I never really understood, if I hit someone with a baseball bat or a sword of the twelth moon it still hurts) it could improve player interraction.
As for end game grind, yes, if you like something it is not a problem, I think a lot of ppl dislike it though. Each to their own (obviously I dislike it)
Chins
How do you figure?
Most people only have time for one MMO, and i'll be dropping my sub for whatever MMO I'm playing when GW2 drops.
If GW2 provide a lot of content and entertainment value of course it will take subs away from existing MMO's, F2P has nothing to do with - people wont keep subing to their previous MMO just because 'they can'.
Medium or high tags mean nothing. I was on a medium server and there was nobody around... during peak times there was like 6 level 50's in total on my side, and 9 on the other. Medium pop? Hardly, more like dead.
But yeah, rift will survive... just like AOC, WAR and VG 'survived'.
Agree with David99, medium labels mean nothing when you make the threshold ludicrously low.
Chins